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Thread: IEI/INFp's lack of homeostasis and role introverted sensing Si

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    Default IEI/INFp's lack of homeostasis and role introverted sensing Si

    Quote Originally Posted by esper
    Something the INTj thread made me think about, and I think I learned a little about myself and what it means to be Se-seeking... I try not to indulge in activities that will make me feel bad (to feel a lack of internal homeostasis) because I know that is a "good" thing to do (evidencing my Si role), but inevitably, I will be dissatisfied with this and frustrated over it (again evidencing my Si role) and I will indulge in them, happy as can be. My inner status is something I know I should maintain, but eventually I get frustrated with maintaining--that inner sense of stability created by the reaction to stimulai. But the actual experience of the stimulai, of the outer qualities of the thing itself--taste, color, sensation, movement--is something directly stimulating, something I give up the role of maintaining homeostasis for; it is not the sense of normalcy that the stimulai creates for me, but the actual sensation of it, an outer thing, that genuinely stimulates me, that feeds me back--a Se thing, as Se observes the outer situation of objects. Mabye I need to explain that better, but I'll leave it at that. And I can stock up on these experiences and always walk around with a feeling of satisfaction and positive stimulation--something beyond normalcy. This I see as innately different from what Si is seeking, a difference in the way they walk and talk and think, in what they desire out of life. They seem to approach stimulai with a desire to create a sense of "okayness" (which is all good and dandy for them), while I desire to create a definite sense of stimulation in one direction or another, not content with just internal stability and feeling rather frustrated by it after a time. They can wallow in environments where there is not alot of definite stimulation one way or another and still be present to the situation and active in it, which I admire them for and wish I could be content with; in such a situation, I feel like I am drowning, and must escape. This creates the oddities in my nature: I appear rather laid back and zen, a person entertained by quiet reflection, but I am also experiencing restlessness and wanderlust at every moment that I am not so engaged in such stimulation. I need something to create a definite charge or passion to even feel okay inside. Although I am always trying to be "good" and follow the rules to create internal stability, finding myself actually in a homeostatic state makes me feel extremely depressed, frustrated, even angry. An active mind and imagination is probably a coping mechanism for this. So I am always preparing for the future times when there will be no stimulation by stocking up on stimulating mental and physical experiences. Otherwise, I will be just as depressed as alot of INXp seem to be, like Niffweed. But I would die before I would allow myself to feel listless like so many so-called INFp seem to be. Such a thing feels like not being able to breathe, and creates a very ornery me who will even allow an argument or conflict to develop just to feel better, I realize now. I think back of all the times I felt incredibly stimulated after an argument, feeling the willpower of two individuals clashing, the Se evaluation. And how it made me feel active, like exerting my own willpower to experience more, and feeling the events around me coalescing into something good and new--such a thing is characteristic of "peak experiences" for me, which I think of as a good characterization of the Ni->Se path to stimulation.
    I concur whole-heartedly
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    This is an impenetrable wall of text™

    All the lines are running together for me.
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    Break out of it.
    Stolen Identity by Argentina

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQjC-q5FBgk

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    Quote Originally Posted by hollywoodwanderer
    Break out of it.
    If you actually comprehended what she wrote, you would realize that response makes no sense.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by esper
    Something the INTj thread made me think about, and I think I learned a little about myself and what it means to be Se-seeking... I try not to indulge in activities that will make me feel bad (to feel a lack of internal homeostasis) because I know that is a "good" thing to do (evidencing my Si role), but inevitably, I will be dissatisfied with this and frustrated over it (again evidencing my Si role) and I will indulge in them, happy as can be. My inner status is something I know I should maintain, but eventually I get frustrated with maintaining--that inner sense of stability created by the reaction to stimulai. But the actual experience of the stimulai, of the outer qualities of the thing itself--taste, color, sensation, movement--is something directly stimulating, something I give up the role of maintaining homeostasis for; it is not the sense of normalcy that the stimulai creates for me, but the actual sensation of it, an outer thing, that genuinely stimulates me, that feeds me back--a Se thing, as Se observes the outer situation of objects. Mabye I need to explain that better, but I'll leave it at that. And I can stock up on these experiences and always walk around with a feeling of satisfaction and positive stimulation--something beyond normalcy. This I see as innately different from what Si is seeking, a difference in the way they walk and talk and think, in what they desire out of life. They seem to approach stimulai with a desire to create a sense of "okayness" (which is all good and dandy for them), while I desire to create a definite sense of stimulation in one direction or another, not content with just internal stability and feeling rather frustrated by it after a time. They can wallow in environments where there is not alot of definite stimulation one way or another and still be present to the situation and active in it, which I admire them for and wish I could be content with; in such a situation, I feel like I am drowning, and must escape. This creates the oddities in my nature: I appear rather laid back and zen, a person entertained by quiet reflection, but I am also experiencing restlessness and wanderlust at every moment that I am not so engaged in such stimulation. I need something to create a definite charge or passion to even feel okay inside. Although I am always trying to be "good" and follow the rules to create internal stability, finding myself actually in a homeostatic state makes me feel extremely depressed, frustrated, even angry. An active mind and imagination is probably a coping mechanism for this. So I am always preparing for the future times when there will be no stimulation by stocking up on stimulating mental and physical experiences. Otherwise, I will be just as depressed as alot of INXp seem to be, like Niffweed. But I would die before I would allow myself to feel listless like so many so-called INFp seem to be. Such a thing feels like not being able to breathe, and creates a very ornery me who will even allow an argument or conflict to develop just to feel better, I realize now. I think back of all the times I felt incredibly stimulated after an argument, feeling the willpower of two individuals clashing, the Se evaluation. And how it made me feel active, like exerting my own willpower to experience more, and feeling the events around me coalescing into something good and new--such a thing is characteristic of "peak experiences" for me, which I think of as a good characterization of the Ni->Se path to stimulation.
    I just had to respond to this again because of how much it resonated with me
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Love the last part. The "clash of intellects." This is pretty much the only reason I have come to appreciate logic as much as I do.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    There are parts of this that I like a lot. Like, I try to create "balance" in my life, and appreciate stability, but whenever I get it, I inevitably feel bored, restless, wanting something "more." This is part of what fuels my addictive behavior. I have a lot of internal tension that just DEMANDS that I do SOMETHING when things get stable; it just feels boring, pointless, like I'm not getting anywhere.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Love the last part. The "clash of intellects." This is pretty much the only reason I have come to appreciate logic as much as I do.
    Yes, the image of it is awesome.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    I concur.

    And although I am not sure this is an adequate response, or if there is such a thing as an adequate response - something I wrote when I was 16 (and thus pre-socionics):

    The evening sky was beautiful. Grey oppressive clouds formed a cocoon of obscurity over the world, black trees like fragile metalwork, like paper cutouts, arranged themselves in perfect composition. The road was a continuous brushstroke of ink and the taillights of cars trailed in lines, red roses sprung from asphalt. Suspended in the air were minute lanterns, white fairy beacons heralding our procession. And the most glorious touch was a strip of cerulean blue, rich and brilliant, against the ominous grey hand stretching for the horizon.

    My senses play games with me, bewitch me at odd hours, lead me into strange habits - I write to capture them in words, in linguistic imagery, I paint to capture them in form and colour, to invite the world into my rapture. I know I seem strange to some of my peers, my behaviour and airs are a little off-putting. They regard me as some eccentric who tinkers with words, pronounces synonyms for them in english class, waxes deliriously on subjects they couldn't give a damn about and generally estranges myself from them, embedded in a world of books and esoteric art, flummoxing films and peculiar tastes. Not the outlandish shocking kind, but an oddity attenuated to the music of a different sphere.

    But at this moment, I couldn't give a damn what they think. I pity them that their lives run on such narrow tracks, that they are content with the mundane, that they can't see the innate beauty in every second of the world, that they can't feel the spirit of transformation and transcendence.

    Looking out into that kingfisher blue, into the halo of streetlights that absorb some eerie magic, my world is enriched. I crawled from the womb hungry for experience, thirsty for beauty; a vampiric lust to absorb the ephemeral wonders within me. Even when my body is stationery, my mind transverses all boundaries. And the world in its construction, its mystery, is a playground for the child to frolic; a feast to satiate the most divine of famines.
    ()
    3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    This is an impenetrable wall of text™

    All the lines are running together for me.
    I'll take a motion in approval of that. *strains*
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    unefille, if I was typing you based on that writing, I would say 4 >3.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Yeah, I felt like that when I was 13.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    unefille, if I was typing you based on that writing, I would say 4 >3.
    Hmm, I've considered 4w3 before seriously. Overall, I think I'm 3w4 instead because:

    1. I disintegrate to 9 instead of 2 when under stress. I just completely disengage with everything: all my activities, all my responsibilities, all my commitments.

    2. I don't desire a rescuer to affirm my value or identity; in fact I reject all advances to 'save' me from just about anything.

    3. 4s often have low-esteem which fuels their drive for self-improvement - I don't have low self-esteem and often come across as having unflinching belief in my own ability to do/be; my fixation is being successful so that other people will acknowledge my talents/capabilities.

    4. Definitely assertive > withdrawn. I unconsciously seek the attention in a room; I like to control conversations/discussion; and I expect everyone to listen to me when I am speaking in a group.

    And the reason I even wrote that journal entry was so 3-ish I'm too embarrassed to even think about it. lol
    ()
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    unefille, if I was typing you based on that writing, I would say 4 >3.
    That's what I've been getting (as an impression) from her all the time, actually. But I guess her 4 wing is pretty strong. (And she seems to know the types pretty damn well.)
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    That's what I've been getting (as an impression) from her all the time, actually. But I guess her 4 wing is pretty strong. (And she seems to know the types pretty damn well.)
    oh no. it's the self-typing fallacy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    oh no. it's the self-typing fallacy!
    (;
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    oh no. it's the self-typing fallacy!
    this is far truer than you may think, though it might not apply in this instance; i don't know, as 3w4/4w3 for unefille is not something i've given the slightest bit of thought to.

    "this is true because its a self-typing" is remarkably widely accepted.

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    its actually remarkably dismissed as not even a piece of evidence worth considering
    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    If you actually comprehended what she wrote, you would realize that response makes no sense.
    It sounds like she is in that state of internal homeostasis she was describing in the post right now. If so, I find the praise of the tone of the post amusing.
    Stolen Identity by Argentina

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    No offense to you but, whatever it is you're experiencing right now is not coming off to me as the "definite charge or passion" that you were speaking of in your post. In fact, I would say you give off a listless, dispassionate, and constant vibe. I'm not trying to tell you how you are feeling but, as an outside observer you appear that way despite what you say to the contrary.
    Stolen Identity by Argentina

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    this is far truer than you may think, though it might not apply in this instance; i don't know, as 3w4/4w3 for unefille is not something i've given the slightest bit of thought to.

    "this is true because its a self-typing" is remarkably widely accepted.
    Duh. That's what I was implying. Next time I'll just write "go fuck yourself" so that it's clear when I am disputing someone's point.
    Last edited by Ritella; 09-08-2008 at 02:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille
    Hmm, I've considered 4w3 before seriously. Overall, I think I'm 3w4 instead because:

    1. I disintegrate to 9 instead of 2 when under stress. I just completely disengage with everything: all my activities, all my responsibilities, all my commitments.

    2. I don't desire a rescuer to affirm my value or identity; in fact I reject all advances to 'save' me from just about anything.

    3. 4s often have low-esteem which fuels their drive for self-improvement - I don't have low self-esteem and often come across as having unflinching belief in my own ability to do/be; my fixation is being successful so that other people will acknowledge my talents/capabilities.

    4. Definitely assertive > withdrawn. I unconsciously seek the attention in a room; I like to control conversations/discussion; and I expect everyone to listen to me when I am speaking in a group.

    And the reason I even wrote that journal entry was so 3-ish I'm too embarrassed to even think about it. lol
    This makes sense. And don't forget, 3's have low self-esteem too; they just try to convince themselves otherwise more than 4's

    Quote Originally Posted by hollywoodwanderer
    It sounds like she is in that state of internal homeostasis she was describing in the post right now. If so, I find the praise of the tone of the post amusing.
    No. She was contrasting Si vs. Se and how she prefers Se.

    Quote Originally Posted by esper
    It also makes me feel better about myself in that, it is just how I am, not something wrong with me that makes me flawed or disadvantaged. It is okay that homeostasis will never be an innately fulfilling state for me, but a chore, something that is necessarily to lead a fuller life but does not encompass the essence of that life in and of itself.
    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by hollywoodwanderer
    No offense to you but, whatever it is you're experiencing right now is not coming off to me as the "definite charge or passion" that you were speaking of in your post. In fact, I would say you give off a listless, dispassionate, and constant vibe. I'm not trying to tell you how you are feeling but, as an outside observer you appear that way despite what you say to the contrary.
    Refrain from posting in this thread, please.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Sometimes I associate normal with mediocrity.

    There's no point to mediocrity.

    Sometimes when I don't like someone, I try to come across as "really normal" and "boring".

    I find that with people that are more interesting, I don't care about being normal, and I wouldn't want to explicitally come across as boring.

    Thing is if you act in a very "normal" way, it's a good way to minimise relationships. It's a good way to keep people at a distance. It's a good way to ensure that nothing "interesting" happens.

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    When I'm feeling adventurous I like to say that I'm normal, I'm a sheep, I'm a follower. I like to go along with the grain. Wouldn't want to create a disturbance.

    Although for some reason if I do this - it can make people who know me well laugh.

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    Walk a straight line. Match peoples expectations. Lie low. Submit. Admit defeat. Perish.

    Never stray. Never prosper.

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    One of the 48 laws of power is to appear stupider than your opponent.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    This makes sense. And don't forget, 3's have low self-esteem too; they just try to convince themselves otherwise more than 4's
    Shhhhhhhh >.<
    ()
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    One of the 48 laws of power is to appear stupider than your opponent.
    When people think they're "smarter" than you, they'll think they have you cornered, and try and make use of, abuse you. And gain the upper hand. If they try and trick you, you can lay it back on them.

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    So I was thinking about what esper said. And what "okay" meant etc.

    And it reminded me of how to me I've got this kind of "level" of where I want to be things at..

    It's like in a group of people - I want everyone to be responsive, ready to act, and yet able to hold back. And yet move forward at a moment's notice.

    I want people to be able to quickly respond to everyone - I want people, to be able to make sudden non-minor changes. I went people to be able to be patient, and wait.

    Thing is, that disturbs people who like to "chill". To me I hate people wanting to chill. It's kind of like saying I like to dismember myself. It just gives an impression of "what the fuck".

    And to me it's like people who like to chill, like to build these groups of people who like to chill, and then they all get into it, in this kind of incestuous way. Where because some people are doing it, more people like to do it.

    It's like situations - where one person starts having a problem, then another, then another, then another. Then you're like hangon - why has everyone got a problem except for me.

    And then it gets to you, and it's like "What's your problem?" and I'm like I don't have a problem. Why are people so busy having problems.

    Yeah, let's all have a group bonding session. Discuss our problems. Talk about how fucked up we are. And how there's no changing it. How we're desperate, and forlorn. That's nice. That's sweet. Like drinking urine.

    In the end we all have to rise above such things. You can't go griping over minor things. You can't go continously adjusting clothing if it's just going to slip down again. Get a grip, get a hold. Take control over what you're doing. And make an impact.

    The thing is - if you define normal - if define how it is that you expect people to behave towards you. They'll start to adjust, to a degree. Some people, they're so far gone that they can't understand. They're dead weights. But most people won't to do well. They want to be good. They're only bad, because they don't understand.

    And so as you teach people, as you help people, as you raise the bar. And enable it to not slip down. Then there's only the minor tricklings of self-defeat, of doubt, and uncertainty, that can be soothed with simple pleasing comments..

    And a higher equilibrium is reached.

    And if an "environment" is constructed, when people are off base at first, they'll soon start to adjust to it. Get used to it. They'll start to understand. Things will make sense to them, and they won't want to leave.

    Unless you tell everyone to go fuck themselves, push them all away, and stand alone, on your own.

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    Unefille, what you wrote was so beautiful. I often felt like that when I was around the same age you were when you wrote that.

    Also, Esper, here is one SEI who read all of what you wrote.
    Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves.
    John Muir

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    Great post esper, but you mind breaking that up in at least 2 paragraphs? Just way easier to read that way lol.

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    I'm not out to become the forum antagonist so I guess I'll leave it alone but, before I do I'd like to suggest to esper that if she would like more energy/motivation she should sleep at least 6 hours a night, go to sleep at a consistent time, excercise regularly, get 40 min of sun a day, and eat bananas and cheeses. That should raise her serotonin and dopamine levels and help reduce any cognitive deficits she may be experiencing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodWanderer View Post
    I'm not out to become the forum antagonist so I guess I'll leave it alone but, before I do I'd like to suggest to esper that if she would like more energy/motivation she should sleep at least 6 hours a night, go to sleep at a consistent time, excercise regularly, get 40 min of sun a day, and eat bananas and cheeses. That should raise her serotonin and dopamine levels and help reduce any cognitive deficits she may be experiencing.
    What type are you? That seems like really weird advice to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hollywoodwanderer
    sleep at least 6 hours a night
    go to sleep at a consistent time I never do this
    excercise regularly I fluctuate from over-training to complete listlessness
    get 40 min of sun a day sometimes, but i dont give a fuck
    eat bananas and cheeses. cheez its ftw
    That should raise her serotonin and dopamine levels and help reduce any cognitive deficits she may be experiencing. she has no cognitive deficits, shut the hell up, you completely misunderstood her post. Who's got the deficiency now??
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodWanderer View Post
    I'm not out to become the forum antagonist so I guess I'll leave it alone but, before I do I'd like to suggest to esper that if she would like more energy/motivation she should sleep at least 6 hours a night, go to sleep at a consistent time, excercise regularly, get 40 min of sun a day, and eat bananas and cheeses. That should raise her serotonin and dopamine levels and help reduce any cognitive deficits she may be experiencing.
    +1
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollywoodWanderer View Post
    I'm not out to become the forum antagonist so I guess I'll leave it alone but, before I do I'd like to suggest to esper that if she would like more energy/motivation she should sleep at least 6 hours a night, go to sleep at a consistent time, excercise regularly, get 40 min of sun a day, and eat bananas and cheeses. That should raise her serotonin and dopamine levels and help reduce any cognitive deficits she may be experiencing.
    Ah, that sounds like the type of advice that would shit me, but then I'd think 'actually, they're right, I need to look after myself - after all, the Cartesian mind-body duality shit isn't real and my physiology affects my mood and persona', but I'd still be annoyed.

    Quote Originally Posted by calenwen View Post
    Unefille, what you wrote was so beautiful. I often felt like that when I was around the same age you were when you wrote that.
    Ta. <3
    Last edited by unefille; 09-08-2008 at 03:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    I think what you are referring to here is more of a certain level of social responsiveness and positivity rather than internal stability...
    In order to have constant social responsiveness, you need internal stability. If you're internally unstable then you're going to throw people off inadvertently.

    That sounds like it disillusions/disappoints/frustrates you...
    What strange words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    Ahaha--you have no idea how you have misread my character, although it is understandable that you wouldn't have much access to it in a medium so narrow as a forum I have reserved for postulating nigh academically about the flaws and strengths inherent myself and people's nature. You could only think I wouldn't already be a stickler for such common sense practice in my own life if you failed to read all I have responded so far. You don't seem to be listening to what I have responded, which I find as offensive as your ignorant judgment and pigeonholing. No offense but, as an outside observer, you really should shut up.
    You should have simplified your whloe response to shut up. You shouldn't need to justify yourself. What's wrong with you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    What type are you? That seems like really weird advice to me.
    To be honest, I'm not really sure. I try not to get too involved in playing the socionics game anyway though. People start reacting in favor of/against your type rather than to you as a person and what you're trying to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    Ahaha--you have no idea how you have misread my character, although it is understandable that you wouldn't have much access to it in a medium so narrow as a forum I have reserved for postulating nigh academically about the flaws and strengths inherent myself and people's nature.
    Sorry, this was not my intent. You seem to be dissatisfied with lack of motivation/energy and the things I suggested tend to help most people in alleviating that stuck in place sort of ennui that we can all get caught up in. Another thing you might consider is developing a new hobby that is active and/or involves interacting with others.

    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    You don't seem to be listening to what I have responded, which I find as offensive as your ignorant judgment and pigeonholing.:
    True enough. To be honest I was a little affronted by the things you said about the "boring Si types." You seem a little haughty yourself and it is my natural tendency to reflect back at people the emotional energy they spew out into the world (perhaps without really realizing it). I do think you have more in common with these boring Si types than you really think though. When I read your musings I get the impression that you are far more in your own head than someone who is happy and fulfilled would be. I also feel that loss of energy/need to get away sort of thing that you were describing in reference to "them." Energy level is relative to what you're used to I suppose and perhaps that is why yours seems rather low to me while theirs seems low to you. Seriously though, I would consider looking into SSRIs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hollywoodwanderer
    True enough. To be honest I was a little affronted by the things you said about the "boring Si types." You seem a little haughty yourself and it is my natural tendency to reflect back at people the emotional energy they spew out into the world (perhaps without really realizing it). I do think you have more in common with these boring Si types than you really think though. When I read your musings I get the impression that you are far more in your own head than someone who is happy and fulfilled would be. I also feel that loss of energy/need to get away sort of thing that you were describing in reference to "them." Energy level is relative to what you're used to I suppose and perhaps that is why yours seems rather low to me while theirs seems low to you. Seriously though, I would consider looking into SSRIs.
    You were affronted? Ha! Stop projecting, you self-righteous bastard.
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