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Thread: Question for IEE

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    Default Question for IEE

    Out of curiosity, I was wondering if IEEs here identified with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by IEE domain

    IEEs do not like to express their romantic interests in such point-blank terms such as "I like you" or "you are cute." This is way uncomfortable... Only the most sensorily emancipated IEEs are able to directly say, "you are cute."

    Do not ask the IEE what his or her feelings towards you are, do not tell them that you like them, and do not talk about your relationship directly. These 'rational' moves make them highly uncomfortable. Instead try, "I like your energy," "your voice is calming," "you look good in that shirt," "you're funny," "I enjoy the way you move," etc.
    (especially the bolded part)

    Why would that make IEEs uncomfortable?

    How does it relate to the IEE's creative ?

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    Well it's not that I'm totally unwilling to share information like this.

    It's just... ok, for me, each one of those pieces poses the potential of uncomfortable judgment or embarrassment. I'm sometimes afraid of making, at least in my mind, very categorical statements about very serious issues that I might not be ready to make or I haven't formulated a solid enough of an opinion or feeling on. So, in my mind, if I feel as though the person wants a direct answer, but I don't feel ready to give it, I feel like I'm selling out or somehow dampening the quality of the opinion I would say. And yes, the quality of the opinion means a lot to me.

    There's a lot of fear that starts to creep into my mind. Like for instance if the discussion about the relationship is about (and this is a personal anecdote) her wanting to help me but feeling as though there's nothing that can be said or done to help and then knowing and feeling that from her perspective and knowing that I'm doing some really depressing things ... it's tough. I felt like I wasn't holding my share of the weight and I was being unfair... and that I couldn't shake myself out of it.

    I'm sensitive towards making bold or categorical statements in relationships "too early" or "too fast". So I'm always wondering, considering, internalizing these states in my mind. Things that I feel like I have to exercise tact in order to hold within.

    If someone tells me they like me, I feel like I have to... hmm... match that or reciprocate it somehow. They're being nice to me, I need to genuinely return it back and give to them. And it can be... can be a burden if I'm in an unhealthy state, if I'm mired in a rut or depressed or whatever. Because if something is wrong, and someone expresses this sentiment, I suddenly feel like I have to get out of whatever mess I'm in, but rarely execute it through. Why? I just... it just doesn't feel "right" if I feel like (a very subjective state, of course) I'm in a position where I'm just taking and not giving anything back.

    That's basically what I got out of those particular statements when I went through the IEE domain.
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    unefille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    There's a lot of fear that starts to creep into my mind. Like for instance if the discussion about the relationship is about (and this is a personal anecdote) her wanting to help me but feeling as though there's nothing that can be said or done to help and then knowing and feeling that from her perspective and knowing that I'm doing some really depressing things ... it's tough. I felt like I wasn't holding my share of the weight and I was being unfair... and that I couldn't shake myself out of it.

    I'm sensitive towards making bold or categorical statements in relationships "too early" or "too fast". So I'm always wondering, considering, internalizing these states in my mind. Things that I feel like I have to exercise tact in order to hold within.

    If someone tells me they like me, I feel like I have to... hmm... match that or reciprocate it somehow. They're being nice to me, I need to genuinely return it back and give to them. And it can be... can be a burden if I'm in an unhealthy state, if I'm mired in a rut or depressed or whatever. Because if something is wrong, and someone expresses this sentiment, I suddenly feel like I have to get out of whatever mess I'm in, but rarely execute it through. Why? I just... it just doesn't feel "right" if I feel like (a very subjective state, of course) I'm in a position where I'm just taking and not giving anything back.

    That's basically what I got out of those particular statements when I went through the IEE domain.
    I think this is a good question, because I did identify with that statement a lot as I also find it difficult to directly articulate my feelings, but I think it's very different from the way you wrote about it here (which would make sense, being Quasi-identicals and all)

    For instance, I can say things like 'Aw, I like you' or 'Oh, I find you ADORABLE' but NOT as though I mean it. I can only say it in a slightly mocking way, which is intended to obfuscate my meaning as much as it is to help me communicate my meaning.

    And I tend to know immediately if I could ever reciprocate someone's feelings (though moments of confusion creep in - and that doesn't mean I immediately can reciprocate, but rather I know what I'm 'looking for' in a sense), so I guess I don't have the problem of what you describe as a burden. If a declaration is made on the other side, I either smile and say 'of course you do, dummy' or politely seize the opportunity to clarify my disinterest. I don't attempt to match it, because then it just gets too 'cheesy' (and by cheesy, I just mean emotionally direct) for me, and I would squirm.

    So, correct me if I'm wrong: your indirectness is borne out of tentative assessment of your feelings, as opposed to mine (EIE), which is borne out of an intention to confuse, tease and avoid the direct statement (which would clarify rather than confuse) of intent?
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    I think this is a good question, because I did identify with that statement a lot as I also find it difficult to directly articulate my feelings, but I think it's very different from the way you wrote about it here (which would make sense, being Quasi-identicals and all)

    For instance, I can say things like 'Aw, I like you' or 'Oh, I find you ADORABLE' but NOT as though I mean it. I can only say it in a slightly mocking way, which is intended to obfuscate my meaning as much as it is to help me communicate my meaning.
    See, and this is the thing. When I hear these sort of playful statements, I seem to have this sudden need to evaluate the statement. If it sounds playful to my ears I will go "Ok, are they just being playful? What if she's being serious? I don't know now I'm not sure now. Uh oh, how do I respond to this?" and this happens rather quickly and what it looks like to the external world is I lock up. Like I'm caught between two emotions. Because I similarly feel like I need to respond or reciprocate playfulness with my own playfulness, but only if I can determine that they are indeed being playful.

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    And I tend to know immediately if I could ever reciprocate someone's feelings (though moments of confusion creep in - and that doesn't mean I immediately can reciprocate, but rather I know what I'm 'looking for' in a sense), so I guess I don't have the problem of what you describe as a burden. If a declaration is made on the other side, I either smile and say 'of course you do, dummy' or politely seize the opportunity to clarify my disinterest. I don't attempt to match it, because then it just gets too 'cheesy' (and by cheesy, I just mean emotionally direct) for me, and I would squirm.
    And this is where I struggle. I always feel like I have to evaluate the statement because I don't feel like I naturally "know" 1) that I can reciprocate it "appropriately" and 2) if I should attempt to reciprocate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    So, correct me if I'm wrong: your indirectness is borne out of tentative assessment of your feelings, as opposed to mine (EIE), which is borne out of an intention to confuse, tease and avoid the direct statement (which would clarify rather than confuse) of intent?
    My personal indirectness is borne out of not only tentative assessment of my own feelings (and my ability to "proplerly" respond) but those expressions which I perceive and sense from others (do I sense what I think I'm sensing). I often doubt my ability to do a sudden read or quick evaluation of a person's expression, because I find myself too many times taking a person's statement at face value. And I don't ever want to be wrong if I think a person is joking but they're actually being serious. That worries me a great deal, actually. So, it only makes sense that I guess wrong the opposite direction (taking someone too seriously when they're just joking with me)
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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    My personal indirectness is borne out of not only tentative assessment of my own feelings (and my ability to "proplerly" respond) but those expressions which I perceive and sense from others (do I sense what I think I'm sensing). I often doubt my ability to do a sudden read or quick evaluation of a person's expression, because I find myself too many times taking a person's statement at face value. And I don't ever want to be wrong if I think a person is joking but they're actually being serious. That worries me a great deal, actually. So, it only makes sense that I guess wrong the opposite direction (taking someone too seriously when they're just joking with me)
    Hmm. A lot of this seems related very much to and a clear > preference. I have rarely doubted my ability to read people's expressions and thus ascertain their intentions to me; my difficulty often lies in my ability to ascertain the strength of my own bonds to other people. Your concern here lies primarily with your static bond () with the other person, which you are in the process of assessing, and how the dynamic emotional information () you are being given feeds into that. I on the other hand react directly to the external emotional material, guided by a few internal cues, but clearly privileging the information over any attempt to assess or focus on . Thus it's more important to me to respond appropriately to the joke (not necessarily by matching it, but emphasising the response aspect) than to consider what this necessarily implies about the relationship between us.

    And that is how I get into trouble sometimes. Doh.

    Thank you tereg. I think that helped me clarify a lot of things regarding the use of and by IEEs and EIEs.
    ()
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    Originally Posted by IEE domain

    IEEs do not like to express their romantic interests in such point-blank terms such as "I like you" or "you are cute." This is way uncomfortable... Only the most sensorily emancipated IEEs are able to directly say, "you are cute."

    Do not ask the IEE what his or her feelings towards you are, do not tell them that you like them, and do not talk about your relationship directly. These 'rational' moves make them highly uncomfortable.
    I agree.
    Words like "I love you" are not easy to say. I like to hold on to them until they will do the most good. That is when the victim er.... I mean, intended is most receptive to it. I would only say it if I was really certain I meant it.
    Some times rather than say nice things I like to tease and say wicked things but then act in a very loving way.
    I don't like it when people ask me about my feelings. I don't want someone asking me if I love them. It would put me on the spot. I prefer to say it spontaneously. I don't like telling other people I know that I like or love someone. I don't want people asking me about my feelings for other people. The deeper my feelings for someone the less I probably talk about them. Our relationship is private. I like to keep it that way. I don't like other people meddling around in my affairs.
    Instead try, "I like your energy," "your voice is calming," "you look good in that shirt," "you're funny," "I enjoy the way you move," etc.
    OH YEAH, thats more like it. Look me in the eye when you say it.

    Topaz
    The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

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    I don't know, I dont idetify with it that much. If I really like the person I would have no problem talking about my feelings. Surely i'd prefer if I would not be asked but I would be able to choose when to speak about something like that but I dont see it as a big issue. I certainly wouldn't freek out if someone would ask me if i loved her, you can say "its too early to ask things like that" or just say you do if you think you do (I still don't know if I know what the hell is loving for real).

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    It sometimes makes me cringe to try and say Fe things; i'm bad at it. Like, I would never say "You're amazing! You're spectacular!" I can say it, but it feels strange to me, since who am I to judge whether someone else is bad/good?

    Sometimes I try to reciprocate saying these things and I want them to know I care, so I do, but it comes out sounding strange. Even in facebook messages. I really struggle w/ the whole "omg I love this pic of you! have a fabulous vacay you amazing person you!" thing. I can't seem to write that sort of thing.

    I don't know how to respond when someone is like "you're the best!" I"m like "uh thanks, so are you!" and it just sounds fake.

    I have told a few guys they were cute, but only when I knew them better and I felt that maybe they doubted whether or not I liked them. Or if they were having a bad day, etc. Otherwise I would think it was obvious from the fact I was all over them.

    But in closer relationships I do say all kinds of things and don't really care how it comes across, so I would probably use more Fe in those situations.

    So I guess I have no conclusion, lol
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    It probably would depend on how well I knew someone. Early in a relationship, if I heard someone talking like that, it would make me cringe and I would probably wonder what their motivation was because I don't think I would believe it was simply to express love. Now, if my husband wanted to talk about love and our relationship, I would be fine, however I would be shocked beyond belief if he talked to me like that.

    You know what? I'd still wonder what his motivations were. Why would he ask about our relationship unless he had issues? Why would he talk about how much he loved me after 10 years of never talking about it? I'd be worried.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    I had an additional thought about this. I think in addition to relationship type questions, one of the most uncomfortable questions for me to answer when I'm not ready to answer it is "What's wrong?"

    Especially when this is asked in the public realm or other people are within earshot of my answer. I either have to pass it off quickly by saying "Nothing" or "Oh, I'm fine" (so as not to draw unneeded attention to my state), or sit there and struggle with some sort of half-answer like "I'm just having one of those days" or "I don't know".

    Answering a question like that when I feel like a sudden answer is needed (and this I would consider along the same lines as "Do you like me?", "Tell me what you think about me?", etc.) is uncomfortable because these sorts of answers take time to develop in my head. Now, I don't mind answering these questions in the general sense, like I have nothing against answering questions of this nature. But the situation has to be right and a few factors are taken into consideration to determine that. And usually for me that situation is in a one-on-one conversational and comfortable setting with a person I'm comfortable with who I know has the patience for how I answer things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    I had an additional thought about this. I think in addition to relationship type questions, one of the most uncomfortable questions for me to answer when I'm not ready to answer it is "What's wrong?"

    Especially when this is asked in the public realm or other people are within earshot of my answer. I either have to pass it off quickly by saying "Nothing" or "Oh, I'm fine" (so as not to draw unneeded attention to my state), or sit there and struggle with some sort of half-answer like "I'm just having one of those days" or "I don't know".

    Answering a question like that when I feel like a sudden answer is needed (and this I would consider along the same lines as "Do you like me?", "Tell me what you think about me?", etc.) is uncomfortable because these sorts of answers take time to develop in my head. Now, I don't mind answering these questions in the general sense, like I have nothing against answering questions of this nature. But the situation has to be right and a few factors are taken into consideration to determine that. And usually for me that situation is in a one-on-one conversational and comfortable setting with a person I'm comfortable with who I know has the patience for how I answer things.
    Speaking from a non-socionics related perspective, I think those sort of questions are generally difficult to answer, not to mention that when you're upset, your head is probably mired in negative thoughts anyway.

    I think what's interesting from a socionics perspective might be the way you proceed to answer the question. Most people who do have a quick answer to give in response to questions such as those are probably giving glib answers that don't really describe or portray half as much of their situation as there is.

    Also interesting to me is that you need a comfortable environment to discuss what's wrong - does that happen with or without a question to prompt you? I ask because if my memory is correct, I generally respond glibly to all questions - I only ever divulge when I feel like discussing it myself and that might be in private or it might not be, but I initiate the discussion.
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    I don't find questions like that difficult
    Granted im quite confident in the dating area so maybe it has some influence. I have never been hurt so to speak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    Now, if my husband wanted to talk about love and our relationship, I would be fine, however I would be shocked beyond belief if he talked to me like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    You know what? I'd still wonder what his motivations were. Why would he ask about our relationship unless he had issues? Why would he talk about how much he loved me after 10 years of never talking about it? I'd be worried.
    Seems like the only reasonable thing to do to me. Well, unless you begin overworrying and tell someone else what he's told you and ask for help instead of confronting him with your concern and work things out together between the two of you.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Out of curiosity, I was wondering if IEEs here identified with this:

    (especially the bolded part)

    Why would that make IEEs uncomfortable?

    How does it relate to the IEE's creative ?
    I have no problem with the first part(i call girls cute all the time )

    the second part..I perfer compliments like " i like ur energy" to 'I like you'.

    Hmm..I think it has to do with judging/selfishness vs selflessness..statements like I like you, and you are beautiful is more of a selfish compliment..whereas compliments like 'i like your energy' is more about you. Paying someone a compliment because u like them & want them to feel good vs paying a compliment because you expect something. I might be overanalyzing.

    I think thats where the tereg's reciprocation thing comes into play(of which I feel)..
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post




    Seems like the only reasonable thing to do to me. Well, unless you begin overworrying and tell someone else what he's told you and ask for help instead of confronting him with your concern and work things out together between the two of you.
    I would never tell someone else about our relationship. That kind of thing freaks him out. I say some stuff here, but even them I'm guarded, and it's more anonymous in that none of you are likely to ever talk to him. But we're both pretty private about that kind of thing, and he is particularly private.
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    this ties in with ENFP's innate sense of paranoia. I'm glad people are finally seeing the negativities of ENFPs. They are not innocent people just like how ISTPs are not socially inept, attractive ISTPs tend to be massive sluts and drug users who mess up other peoples lives.

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    Yeah he has issues with IEEs, though it's true of all types that sometimes people here will refuse to see the bad potential in their types. Or, if there's someone who is basically negative and is their type, people will often be convinced someone like that couldn't possibly be their type.

    But all types have that weakness. Not just us.
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    basically, Fi types do not like to say something which is full of shit.
    INTp

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    People won't talk about the negative in their OWN types. People are quite happy to see negative potential in other types.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by betterthandead View Post
    this ties in with ENFP's innate sense of paranoia. I'm glad people are finally seeing the negativities of ENFPs. They are not innocent people just like how ISTPs are not socially inept, attractive ISTPs tend to be massive sluts and drug users who mess up other peoples lives.
    you sound bitter.
    <Crispy> what subt doesnt understand is that a healthy reaction to "FUCK YOU" is and not

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    I would never tell someone else about our relationship. That kind of thing freaks him out. I say some stuff here, but even them I'm guarded, and it's more anonymous in that none of you are likely to ever talk to him. But we're both pretty private about that kind of thing, and he is particularly private.

    Yeah, I was mainly talking from personal experience. Someone has consistently done that to me in my life and I have almost gone insane.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    People won't talk about the negative in their OWN types. People are quite happy to see negative potential in other types.
    Heh. I can see quite a few negative traits manifested in every ISTp I've ever known IRL, including myself. There was a thread about problems with identicals in which I described two such relationships, including what I thought they found less-than-ideal in me.
    ... but, being SLI, I mostly don't give a shit. I'm engaged in my own hidden process of self-improvement, but I would never, ever allow anyone who isn't extremely close to me to lay expectations on me because I'm way too fond of my claim to laziness.
    When I read others' descriptions of SLI negative traits, it usually makes me laugh, so I don't mind. For example, betterthandead has been posting here & there lately about us, and rather than sounding dead wrong, it just sounds hyperbolic. I take it as a joke, not an insult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles Bukowski
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