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Thread: Exertion -Se+Fi and +Se-Fi

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    Default Exertion -Fi+Se and +Se-Fi

    Originally shared with jxrtes:
    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
    -Se as energy, is inertia. ...I was trying in the chat to connect inertia to something else, and heh, it's really complicated. I think it was a part of general relativity, heh.

    But in person terms, ISFj exertion type: You want someone to do something, and try to get them to do it by some means. (+Se pressure) If they don't respond well to the pressure (-Se inertia), they think you a tyrant and try to hold you to some moral authority. (-Fi) In this case you end up defending your own motivations or bow to the moral authority and curb your motivations on basis of it. Of course there is more to it, but that's the outline.

    ISFj sees conflicts of will all over the place, which are responded to in terms of moral outrage. Moral struggle everywhere, Jerry Falwell city. (Falwell was a radical and thus, he -was- the inertia and the outrage).

    I think Jefferson was ex-ESFp: first the moral outrage and indignation, then motive for freedom and the assertion of self will against the oppressor. I mean really, what more than that does the declaration of independence talk about, and didn't he govern the same way?
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 09-03-2008 at 04:08 AM. Reason: wrong title

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    I'm coming to the conclusion that the concept which defines information exertion, is struggle. There are many different kinds of struggles in the world -- emotional, logical, physical, coercive...: all these are trying to increase their share of the world's energy. You are constantly locked in a struggle with the world around you -- you are independent of the world as a body, a will which is trying to resist the myriad wills around you that want to dissolve you physically and mentally. It's a very different domain, the world of ideas Model A describes, from the world of real action exertion tries to explain. Model A is a world on paper and of the mind; exertion is the world as it really is as we experience it. The mental organizes the real: every concept we conceive of by the functions is a definite (or not) relation of real world experiences to each other in such way that we believe that if we control the relation, then we control the experience. Our struggle to persuade and "out-think" our competition is in fact a struggle for real things that we have observed to have the common relation of the information aspect we are trying to convey. The better we convey that information aspect, the more (indirect) control we have over the world itself, because although we may not have immediate possession of something, it lies in as much as we understand the relation in our means to obtain it.

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    ah .. you are brilliant tcaud. this post is perfect for what i have been thinking alot about .. trying to make the jump from ISFj to ESFp exertion type. .. which vaguely symbolizes artistic convergence of mind, in ILI.
    I have felt briefly how it is to think in this process.
    Is it a coincidence you post this just after I realized I had my exertion type ENFj incorrect?
    I'll probably write a bit about it in a few months to come, after I post the tour de force i've been working on.
    Anyway, this is a suprisingly accurate and insightful description, although somewhat negative, & hence incomplete.
    I think it is also important to take into consideration an exertion types relative IM type in analyzing its specific manifestations in reality.
    There is also the underlying assumption in most of what you write that society must be maintained. I prefer to think of the ideal state of society as anarchy. If you look at (ISFj) from this point of view (anarchy), it does point toward a positive imperative for change .. and particularly if it is coupled with an abstractly different IM type. This is the ideal exertion type of LIE .
    One thing you and I differ on (and correct me if I'm wrong) is the idea of which exertion type marks ideal actualization. For you, it is the conflict type exertion type, correct? for me it is the dual type exertion type.
    I think this is explained directly by our differing points of view on the ideal society: anarchy vs. social order.
    if you have any more IMs describing specific characteristics of exertion types, i'd really appreciate it if you posted them or PMed them to me.
    Last edited by crazedrat; 09-03-2008 at 09:02 AM.
    INTp

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