Last edited by diljs; 02-24-2009 at 02:02 AM. Reason: borderline OCD streamlining and clarification
ILE - Ti.
Those things make you DOUBT ILE? I think most of it points to ILE.
Yeah, reading this over I don't see much that would knock out ILE as an option, and ILI can pretty much be discarded imo. ILE > LII!
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Well thanks guys, I must just be a weird ILE then.
I am kind of disappointed that no one voted jackass though
ILE - Ti.
I thought a requirement for ILE's was socially awkward.
If not, I must admit you guys have lost some of your appeal to me.
"Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."
tentatively ILE, but i merely glanced down the post and read none of it thoroughly.
yeah, I'm pretty sure that not being naturally social isn't something that should make you think you're not a F PoLR type, lol. You definitely sound ILE to me.
I agree, and saying that doesn't necessarily preclude you from already having been doing what I'm about to suggest, but just make sure you try to enjoy people for what they are and not put any expectations on them. You'll have much better results if you just look for interesting people and don't worry about how they'll interact with you, but rather just let it happen.I greatly desire having a large number of friends who express positive emotions towards me, like my ideas, and want to follow my random suggestions.
I haven't been able to relate to that for a long time (although I do think it fits as an ILE neurosis), but, like my friend is always saying, that stuff is just paranoia and you can't let it get to you. Just try to look/act friendlier and remember this:I feel that I am incompetent at achieving this, and often do not try because of these feelings, and as a result am unhappy with the amount/quality of the people I know. Note that this is my internal feeling, externally I just appear like I don't care about interacting with others.
Just keep at it, you're obviously not completely socially retarded. You just have to get out of the vicious cycle that is doubting yourself and get into the positive reinforcement cycle of liking yourself and feeling confident.On the flip side, however, at those occasional times when I have "worked the room" and gotten to talk to everyone, I feel GREAT. I don't feel drained, but energetic. This is double when I go to a group where a few people will recognize and greet me, or respond well to my initial greeting. To clarify, I don't feel antisocial, but I act that way. I could call it "shy" but really its just a general awkwardness. I like and enjoy interacting with people, I just hate the fact that they might not respond well to me.
Stop doing this, haha. Just approach the first person you see that is not talking to someone else or any group of 3+ people (NOT 2 people unless you know them both, but it's better to dive right in and talk to people you don't know... a lot of people are there to meet new, interesting people) and introduce yourself then start asking questions, any questions. Don't give yourself a chance to start thinking about things too much and get locked in your head. I feel like I'm at my least healthy when I'm really inside my head when people are around. You've got to fight to stay present in the situation and not let yourself think too much. The longer you wait on something the easier it is to talk yourself out of it. Just embrace your impulsive nature.When I'm in large groups, usually consisting of people I don't know, I freeze up and want to leave. I will look at all the people around me and become quickly "overloaded" by all the data coming in: who I recognize, what everyone is doing, saying, wearing, what girls are attractive, etc. It's not that I don't want to interact with them, however. On the contrary, I want to interact with them all, want them all to like me and give me positive responses. The problem is I just don't know where to begin; who to talk to first. I want to hit them all at once, but instead I often talk to no one at all. Instead I'll stick with those that I came with or go to a smaller area. To me this seems like what someone from an IP or possibly IJ temperament would feel.
I can probably match you blow for blow with this one. Most people have some sort of issues with their parents though, and you can't let that define you. Yes, you came from them, but nothing says you have to be like them. You're away from them now, out from under their influence, and you can be whatever you want to be. So just be it. You'll suck at first, but you'll be happier if you break the conditioning.It's important to note this may be due to growing up with very antisocial parents who conditioned me to act in the same way until I left for college. Even in college, however, I always had things to do instead of interacting with a large number of people, and only recently have been actively trying to expand my social pool. I typically meet new people through friends, and have to spend a few interactions with them before I remember them. This is not to say I avoid or can't handle random interactions with strangers, in fact I'm probably better at those than on repeated interactions, where I simply can't determine the appropriate "norms" the first few times we meet. I do identify somewhat with Fi POLR of an ENTp by not gauging the right social distance in this area.
Insecurity. It sounds like a need to be perceived as perfect. People don't want you to be perfect, they want empathy, so get over it. You realize it's irrational so you need to break that conditioned response again. Hard, I know, but that's the only answer to that. Also possible I'm projecting because a lot of wht you're writing looks like what I went through, and I definitely thought I had to be perfect for a while. If this naturally correlates to a function then I've gone from not valuing to valuing to not valuing it in my life so far. Hell, we're both being vulnerable here; it's really not so bad, is it? Uncomfortable sure, but it's the truth.This is something that takes a bit of effort for me, and doesn't feel great, but I feel is necessary. It isn't necessarily a constant/natural/unconscious thing (it may have been learned or developed in response to something) for me, and its not always on. At certain times I tend to look at social interactions in a very hard/cynical "game theory" style way. That is to say that I view interactions as transactions, with winners and losers, and I try to avoid being the loser/try to be the winner. One way this is manifested is when someone says something "vulnerable" or "weak", expecting me to respond in an affirming/identifying way, and I lock up and act like "I don't understand that, I never feel that way." Se Role or POLR?
I've been told by friends that I appear "arrogant", like I "think I'm better than everyone else", etc. This was a huge surprise to me because I generally take what I see as an unassuming/kind/gracious role with everyone.externally I just appear like I don't care about interacting with others.Eliminate those two things and any other similar habits and you'll just be seen as confident, even if you are the most insecure guy in the world I'm certainly not talking about anyone I might know or be, of course.expecting me to respond in an affirming/identifying way, and I lock up and act like "I don't understand that, I never feel that way."
I don't really have much to say about the rest. Mostly relate to the loving people part, although I probably dislike more people than you, but I do like most people and try to stay on good terms with them. Touching is great, and I do feel comfortable receiving any kind but not initiating any non-obvious romantic kind, but I'm pretty sure every sane person likes human contact to some degree Although, your last bit about planning I didn't relate to at all. I always try to leave things as open as possible and do the bare minimum planning that I can get away with. That's certainly nothing that would make me think you're not ILE though.
P.S. - I realize you've probably heard/thought of all this advice, but I relate to almost everything you said (although I went through it much earlier in my life) and I do believe I've been there, so hopefully I'm not overstepping my bounds. At this point I think that if you really want to change you need to get past the negative emotions and put it into practice. I do realize it's not as easy as it sounds, and it's probably a lot harder for you now than it was for me in my early teens, still the formative years and all. Things aren't magically going to get better for you though unless you really get out there. You definitely can be how you want, but there's nothing natural about it. It takes practice (time being a big part of that, no way anything is going to happen instantly) and thought, same as a lot of things.
But that's why we're charming!We're all weird, who the fuck are you kidding?
Nice post, burnt orange. You're right that all people are looking for is empathy. You want to get to know them, they want to know you. No-one has to prove their worthiness in a conversation, and if there's awkward silence, break it up with an honest comment if you'd like . The biggest thing is to just be yourself and go with it, let it happen, don't try to analyze it so much - you can do that later if it entertains you .
First of all, decide whether you're Gamma or Alpha. (This should be pretty fucking obvious by now, and not most because they are opposing quadras.) Then you're getting somewhere.
However, in the past I feel like I've acted like a gamma: very cold, interested in money, relationships with a "purpose", etc. I have done almost a 180 in my life and recently left a very high paying job because, among other things, I wanted to have more free time to relax and be with friends.
ILE - Ti.
Last edited by diljs; 02-24-2009 at 02:02 AM.
ILE - Ti.
Who isn't interested in money? It's what you use it for that counts. Often, LIEs, for example, will generate money for the sake of generating it. (I may be wrong, and please correct me, Expat or Joy (if you're not SEE ), if I am, but this is the impression I get.) And coldness has nothing to do with quadra. I'm often cold. Does this make me Gamma? Of course not. It's probably more to do with the fact that I'm ethically weak or something. And by the way, if relationships don't have a purpose, why do they exist? If what you say were the case, everyone would be flocking to Gamma, in recognition that it is clearly the best quadra of which to be a part, since at least there you get a decent relationship, while everywhere else it's just... not.However, in the past I feel like I've acted like a gamma: very cold, interested in money, relationships with a "purpose", etc.
Hahaha, this is practically a give away for Alpha. I'd forget about consideration of ILI and just concentrate on whether you're an ILE or LII. What have you got so far?I have done almost a 180 in my life and recently left a very high paying job because, among other things, I wanted to have more free time to relax and be with friends.
Last edited by diljs; 02-24-2009 at 02:02 AM. Reason: yes
ILE - Ti.