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Thread: Questions for EIEs-ENFjs about leading Fe function

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    Default Questions for EIEs-ENFjs about leading Fe function

    1. Is it likely that someone would describe an EIE/Fe-leading type to be someone who 'wouldn't cry, even though I've made you this beautiful, moving and sentimental CD' and who 'doesn't really seem all that emotional'?

    2. Is it likely that an EIE/Fe-leading type would retreat somewhere private when feeling upset, angry or down because they are uncomfortable with displaying these emotions in public?

    3. Would an EIE/Fe-leading type, when being berated or told off by someone, not necessarily a superior, remain expressionless and stone-faced throughout the tirade; becoming absolutely frozen, then turning and attempting to place as much distance between themselves and that person? And only, when a period of time has passed, be capable to expressing that anger, usually to sympathetic parties?

    4. Would an EIE/Fe-leading type display their negative emotions, or are they more likely to hold these in, particularly by minimising their facial expressions, in remaining civil?

    5. Is an EIE/Fe-leading type likely to hold back their criticisms of someone they find incompetent when that person turns to them for sympathy and try to both reassure them whilst expressing their concerns diplomatically, though they do not necessarily like this person?

    I playing around with the idea of possibly being Fe-base and these are some questions that came to mind.

    Edited to add: This is probably a partial, not whole, picture of my behaviour - just some thoughts that came to mind when reading about the EIE's 'emotional expressiveness'.
    Last edited by unefille; 08-26-2008 at 05:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    1. Is it likely that someone would describe an EIE/Fe-leading type to be someone who 'wouldn't cry, even though I've made you this beautiful, moving and sentimental CD' and who 'doesn't really seem all that emotional'?

    2. Is it likely that an EIE/Fe-leading type would retreat somewhere private when feeling upset, angry or down because they are uncomfortable with displaying these emotions in public?

    3. Would an EIE/Fe-leading type, when being berated or told off by someone, not necessarily a superior, would remain expressionless and stone-faced throughout the tirade; becoming absolutely frozen, then turning and attempting to place as much distance between themselves and that person? And only, when a period of time has passed, be capable to expressing that anger, usually to sympathetic parties?

    4. Would an EIE/Fe-leading type display their negative emotions, or are they more likely to hold these in, particularly by minimising their facial expressions, in remain civil?

    5. Is an EIE/Fe-leading type likely to hold back their criticisms of someone they find incompetent when that person turns to them for sympathy and try to both reassure them whilst expressing their concerns diplomatically, though they do not necessarily like this person?

    I playing around with the idea of possibly being Fe-base and these are some questions that came to mind.
    I think the key here is that it's Fe paired with Ni - they keep the long run in mind when using emotions, so at times they may be indirect with their emotions if letting them out would screw up something further down the road. Whereas with Alpha SF types it's more heart-on-the-sleeve. Or so I understand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    1. Is it likely that someone would describe an EIE/Fe-leading type to be someone who 'wouldn't cry, even though I've made you this beautiful, moving and sentimental CD' and who 'doesn't really seem all that emotional'?

    2. Is it likely that an EIE/Fe-leading type would retreat somewhere private when feeling upset, angry or down because they are uncomfortable with displaying these emotions in public?

    3. Would an EIE/Fe-leading type, when being berated or told off by someone, not necessarily a superior, remain expressionless and stone-faced throughout the tirade; becoming absolutely frozen, then turning and attempting to place as much distance between themselves and that person? And only, when a period of time has passed, be capable to expressing that anger, usually to sympathetic parties?

    4. Would an EIE/Fe-leading type display their negative emotions, or are they more likely to hold these in, particularly by minimising their facial expressions, in remaining civil?

    5. Is an EIE/Fe-leading type likely to hold back their criticisms of someone they find incompetent when that person turns to them for sympathy and try to both reassure them whilst expressing their concerns diplomatically, though they do not necessarily like this person?

    I playing around with the idea of possibly being Fe-base and these are some questions that came to mind.
    1. yes. "sentimental" is subjective. Maybe they just didn't like it. Fe leading types skillfully show the emotions that they want to show and accidentally show some emotions that they wanted to hide, but in my experience EIEs have a very polite outer shell and they are careful with excess emotionality.

    2. yes. Fe types often try to avoid bringing others down, so they wouldn't openly show negative emotions unless they're trying to accomplish something by showing the negative emotions. If they think someone was unfair towards them, they will be very negative/angry/upset in public and it will not be unnoticed. But if they are just feeling miserable one day then they stay quiet and keep away from people (will snap at people when provoked).

    3. no. sounds almost Se-PoLR. Although, if the critique was justified or it feels too true and upsetting, then could be yes. If it happens almost always when recieving criticism then it's not very much like EIE.

    4. depends on subtype, upbringing and general personality.

    5. depends on subtype, upbringing and general personality. I'm personally not too keen on diplomacy, but some EIEs seem to live by it.


    Try reading some parts of wikisocion EIE domain and see if you see yourself in it. (http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=EIE_domain)
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    1. yes. "sentimental" is subjective. Maybe they just didn't like it. Fe leading types skillfully show the emotions that they want to show and accidentally show some emotions that they wanted to hide, but in my experience EIEs have a very polite outer shell and they are careful with excess emotionality.
    That might be an explanation. I was actually rather taken aback with the descriptions of me as being emotionless (or emotionally 'tough', whatever that means) and being 'not the crying type' because I wasn't very 'girly' or 'emotional'.

    3. no. sounds almost Se-PoLR. Although, if the critique was justified or it feels too true and upsetting, then could be yes. If it happens almost always when recieving criticism then it's not very much like EIE.
    There are times when people get upset at me and I have no problems handling them. But there have been a few times when the anger took a long time to build - and when it came, it was very strong - but I was so shocked/stunned by what was happening that I couldn't access any anger immediately. Like, suddenly, all thoughts would just stop and I would just only hear silence. And I'm not scared or about to break down or anything - just completely and utterly cut off from my feelings for a while.

    I definitely don't have Se PoLR though.

    Try reading some parts of wikisocion EIE domain and see if you see yourself in it. (http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=EIE_domain)
    Thanks, I will.
    Last edited by unefille; 08-26-2008 at 04:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    4. depends on subtype, upbringing and general personality.

    5. depends on subtype, upbringing and general personality. I'm personally not too keen on diplomacy, but some EIEs seem to live by it.
    Actually, Kristiina (or anyone else), would you mind elaborating on the differences between the subtypes and how they would react different in these situations?
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    That might be an explanation. I was actually rather taken aback with the descriptions of me as being emotionless (or emotionally 'tough', whatever that means) and being 'not the crying the type' because I wasn't very 'girly' or 'emotional'.
    This is a big paradox for me...people who I haven't made myself vulnerable around, or to whom I just don't show that part of my personality, have reported seeing me like this. It totally depends on my relationship with the person/group of people.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    This is a big paradox for me...people who I haven't made myself vulnerable around, or to whom I just don't show that part of my personality, have reported seeing me like this. It totally depends on my relationship with the person/group of people.
    I thought you were back to being ILE? Was this (the outward lack of emotional expressiveness toward people who you have not yet let yourself be vulnerable to) something that swayed you back to ILE?

    P.S Regarding your other posts on my type - I am taking them into consideration.
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    No, that was mostly just me having a depressed moment and purging my emo-ness by "giving up" (I'm big on catharsis), as well as acknowledging that I can be fake as all hell sometimes. I don't think I'm ILE.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    1. Is it likely that someone would describe an EIE/Fe-leading type to be someone who 'wouldn't cry, even though I've made you this beautiful, moving and sentimental CD' and who 'doesn't really seem all that emotional'?

    2. Is it likely that an EIE/Fe-leading type would retreat somewhere private when feeling upset, angry or down because they are uncomfortable with displaying these emotions in public?

    3. Would an EIE/Fe-leading type, when being berated or told off by someone, not necessarily a superior, remain expressionless and stone-faced throughout the tirade; becoming absolutely frozen, then turning and attempting to place as much distance between themselves and that person? And only, when a period of time has passed, be capable to expressing that anger, usually to sympathetic parties?

    4. Would an EIE/Fe-leading type display their negative emotions, or are they more likely to hold these in, particularly by minimising their facial expressions, in remaining civil?

    5. Is an EIE/Fe-leading type likely to hold back their criticisms of someone they find incompetent when that person turns to them for sympathy and try to both reassure them whilst expressing their concerns diplomatically, though they do not necessarily like this person?

    I playing around with the idea of possibly being Fe-base and these are some questions that came to mind.
    Eh, these behaviors sound more like IEI.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy View Post
    Eh, these behaviors sound more like IEI.
    In what way?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    No, that was mostly just me having a depressed moment and purging my emo-ness by "giving up" (I'm big on catharsis), as well as acknowledging that I can be fake as all hell sometimes. I don't think I'm ILE.
    lol


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy View Post
    Eh, these behaviors sound more like IEI.
    those were my thoughts as well. unefille, you remind me of esper. i've been thinking IEI for you for a while now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbmmama View Post
    those were my thoughts as well. unefille, you remind me of esper. i've been thinking IEI for you for a while now.
    Ah, another one I never considered. Hmm.

    Would you mind elaborating on that a little?
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    Actually I had considered IEI for her as well, but she does seem to be more 3 than 4, which generally points to EIE>IEI.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    Ah, another one I never considered. Hmm.

    Would you mind elaborating on that a little?
    i read snegledmaca's post in the IEE thread and i type the way he said, in relation to other people i know or know of. you remind me tons of esper. IF she is IEI, then that's why i say IEI. and there is a possibility in my mind she is LSI, a lot of Ti going on. calm Ti, not like strrrng's jaunt of "being" LSI. you are calm about your Ti like her. i believe you and her are the same type, whatever that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    In what way?
    In the way that an introverted intuitive would be less likely to express the crazy Ni-ness.

    Your questions all ask about holding in complexities, and of all eight functions, Ni fits the best.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy View Post
    In the way that an introverted intuitive would be less likely to express the crazy Ni-ness.

    Your questions all ask about holding in complexities, and of all eight functions, Ni fits the best.
    But wouldn't an IEI, who has Ni as their base function and Fe as their creative function, feel the greater need to express their Ni via their Fe, rather than holding it back?

    My questions were about someone who, to a large extent, is uncomfortable with expressing negative emotion and will adjust herself in order to hold it in. To some extent, I can see this being explained by strong Fe which can adjust and control external emotional expressions. However, I just wondered if that really described an EIE, since a lot of the descriptions seem to focus on their emotional expressiveness, rather than their emotional control.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    But wouldn't an IEI, who has Ni as their base function and Fe as their creative function, feel the greater need to express their Ni via their Fe, rather than holding it back?

    My questions were about someone who, to a large extent, is uncomfortable with expressing negative emotion and will adjust herself in order to hold it in. To some extent, I can see this being explained by strong Fe which can adjust and control external emotional expressions. However, I just wondered if that really described an EIE, since a lot of the descriptions seem to focus on their emotional expressiveness, rather than their emotional control.
    If you change the EIE/Fe-leading in your description to IEI it will describe IEI behaviour quite accurately. There are different IEI's of course but most often I will hold back rather than express what I have on my mind if I am unsure about something in the situation. If am comfortable then I don't hold back, or if I am pissed off enough/tired of a situation then I will speak out too.

    But I dislike being overly critical/demeaning/derogatory of someone, so I will express my opinion in diplomatic terms. If someone pushes me enough I will drop that diplomacy, but then that may result in a 'burn' of the person pushing and they usually don't appreciate that...
    INFp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariano Rajoy View Post
    Eh, these behaviors sound more like IEI.
    i agree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbmmama
    i read snegledmaca's post in the IEE thread and i type the way he said, in relation to other people i know or know of. you remind me tons of esper. IF she is IEI, then that's why i say IEI. and there is a possibility in my mind she is LSI, a lot of Ti going on. calm Ti, not like strrrng's jaunt of "being" LSI. you are calm about your Ti like her. i believe you and her are the same type, whatever that is.
    esper is IEI, lol. As am I - it was just a "jaunt," as you put it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    esper is IEI, lol. As am I - it was just a "jaunt," as you put it.
    lol, she's just calmer than you. maybe it's all that coffee you drink.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    From my perspective:

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    1. Is it likely that someone would describe an EIE/Fe-leading type to be someone who 'wouldn't cry, even though I've made you this beautiful, moving and sentimental CD' and who 'doesn't really seem all that emotional'?
    Depends what you mean by "emotional", and on who the EIE is. Would you call David Cameron "emotional"? Bono? Mena Suvari in American Beauty? Freud? Oprah Winfrey?

    2. Is it likely that an EIE/Fe-leading type would retreat somewhere private when feeling upset, angry or down because they are uncomfortable with displaying these emotions in public?
    Probably not.

    3. Would an EIE/Fe-leading type, when being berated or told off by someone, not necessarily a superior, remain expressionless and stone-faced throughout the tirade; becoming absolutely frozen, then turning and attempting to place as much distance between themselves and that person? And only, when a period of time has passed, be capable to expressing that anger, usually to sympathetic parties?
    Unlikely. This sounds like a person with weak Fe (and thus Fi). However, if the EIE realised that remaining expressionless was necessary to achieving their goals, then I'm pretty sure they could use their Fe-related skills to do this.

    4. Would an EIE/Fe-leading type display their negative emotions, or are they more likely to hold these in, particularly by minimising their facial expressions, in remaining civil?
    Again, the above applies in terms of the EIE applying their skills. However, the EIE is more likely to use expressionlessness as civility than they are to remain stone-faced because they would rather not reveal their emotions publicly.

    5. Is an EIE/Fe-leading type likely to hold back their criticisms of someone they find incompetent when that person turns to them for sympathy and try to both reassure them whilst expressing their concerns diplomatically, though they do not necessarily like this person?
    Absolutely. This is pretty characteristic of Fe ego types, if I'm not mistaken.

    FTR, if you were IEI, that would make life even better. It would explain why I am attracted to your character, unefille.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Actually I had considered IEI for her as well, but she does seem to be more 3 than 4, which generally points to EIE>IEI.
    Let's leave the Enneagram out for a while. (FTR, I'm becoming less interested in it as of late, which is why I seem less tolerant. I feel as if I've learned most if not all of what is interesting to learn. I've also discovered that people don't seem to apply it in the way it's s'posed to be applied.)

    Quote Originally Posted by dbmmama View Post
    i read snegledmaca's post in the IEE thread and i type the way he said, in relation to other people i know or know of. you remind me tons of esper. IF she is IEI, then that's why i say IEI. and there is a possibility in my mind she is LSI, a lot of Ti going on. calm Ti, not like strrrng's jaunt of "being" LSI. you are calm about your Ti like her. i believe you and her are the same type, whatever that is.
    esper is IEI. What is the Ti you believe you're seeing?

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    But wouldn't an IEI, who has Ni as their base function and Fe as their creative function, feel the greater need to express their Ni via their Fe, rather than holding it back?
    Yes, but what you're talking about is nothing to do with expression of Ni via Fe. You're talking about how people (probably you, if I'm not mistaken) act when under fire from others. In fact, if I didn't know better, I'd say your seeming preoccupation with argument and how people act negatively towards you is indicative of a combat-ready type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    I think it is important to note that the observation of patterns in events over time, once dwelt upon, can lead to assumptions about correlations between data. Thus, an IEI talks about theory. You are seeing observed -> speculated .
    yes, what she said.

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    Default Behaviours - Fe/Fi?

    Hmm, if I'm Beta, then in past I've mislabeled a lot of my behaviour (possibly due to the myth of 'Fake Fe') so I'm just to going to write down some things I do/have done.

    1. I'm not comfortable with expressing how I feel about someone if I feel like I'm being emotionally manipulated into it. If someone says: 'I really like you'; 'I love you'; 'You're one of my closest friends' and I can't reciprocate the sentiment, I will usually just smile and say something neutral but complimentary, or make a wisecrack in response. My 'lukewarm' responses have often resulted in problems maintaining female friends as I was growing up, because they felt I was holding them at an emotional arms-length.

    2. Its common practice amongst the people I know now to kiss each other in greeting. This isn't a practice that I was familiar with until I started university and I at first I found it very affected. I don't mind it now, but I often won't initiate a greeting kiss until something internal changes and I feel there is a relationship between us. This has, on occassion, led to situations where people position themselves near me for a kiss, and instead I simply open conversation, leaving them slightly lost. However, if they initiate, I will respond warmly, always.

    3. One of my closest friends went to Europe for the summer. We arranged to go to the Art Gallery when she got back. Upon seeing me, she opened her arms wide and tried to engulf me in a happy hug. I didn't feel like it, so I side-stepped her, slipped my arm through hers and said: 'It's too warm to hug', which made her laugh, at least.

    4. My default mode is to be civil, welcoming and conciliatory. However, on occasion, if I think it's 'appropriate', I will make an 'inappropriate' comment that's rude or snappy or sharp, just to shift the gears of the discussion. I teach casually and my method often shocks people, because it usually involves teasing or mocking the students, writing sarcastic comments on their papers, interspersed with running commentary on what I think as I'm reading their writing. A lot of other teachers/tutors are just warm and accepting - but I think students are so placid about making mistakes that you need to grab their attention. I can be sharp and critical where I think it's warranted and then change back to warm when I think they've heard the message. I always thought the warm, diplomatic, 'everything you do is great' teachers were Fe-valuing - now I'm definitely reassessing.
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    @unefille: most of what you are describing does not conflict with being IEE, I think. I think it's strange that you question your former type by comparing it to EIE. If you would have considered ILE or something from the Delta quadra, that would have made more sense.

    I have a question for you: your questions so far evolve around social interaction. What is it you do when you spend a significant amount of time alone?
    The future of Socionics:
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    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbmmama
    lol, she's just calmer than you. maybe it's all that coffee you drink.
    lol, maybe

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille
    4. My default mode is to be civil, welcoming and conciliatory. However, on occasion, if I think it's 'appropriate', I will make an 'inappropriate' comment that's rude or snappy or sharp, just to shift the gears of the discussion. I teach casually and my method often shocks people, because it usually involves teasing or mocking the students, writing sarcastic comments on their papers, interspersed with running commentary on what I think as I'm reading their writing. A lot of other teachers/tutors are just warm and accepting - but I think students are so placid about making mistakes that you need to grab their attention. I can be sharp and critical where I think it's warranted and then change back to warm when I think they've heard the message. I always thought the warm, diplomatic, 'everything you do is great' teachers were Fe-valuing - now I'm definitely reassessing.
    This really makes me think ENFj, and just beta in general. It's classic beta attitude - using emotional tactics (Fe) to influence others and their actions (Se). The way you talk about "grabbing their attention" and waking them up from their scholastic placidity suggests EIE: you care about them, but you're gonna do what you think is best for them in the end (ends> means -- beta) instead of just being nice to mitigate them in the present moment (which tends to be a them with SiFe or SiFi). The attitude of the other teachers more closely resembles alpha/delta.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Unlikely. This sounds like a person with weak Fe (and thus Fi). However, if the EIE realised that remaining expressionless was necessary to achieving their goals, then I'm pretty sure they could use their Fe-related skills to do this.
    From my perspective (as a friend, not making assumptions on my type or my knowledge of functions), she becomes expressionless and closed off as a defensive mechanism, definitely not as a strategic move. You can pretty much feel her pulling back into herself, but that she's still rapidly processing what's going on. At that point, I feel she cares less about what the other person is thinking/feeling, and more about dealing with her own response. But this is also contingent upon the social context.

    Also, she doesn't respond much to excessive emotional displays. I've noticed that the more someone, particularly guys, pursue her, the more she gets turned off. By excessive emotional displays, I mean calling her frequently, emailing her regularly - sometimes using flimsy excuses to do so, wanting to meet up. I thin part of her annoyance was in the other party not defining what their relationship was, but trying to date her by 'stealth' if you will.

    On the other hand, when we have different opinions on a topic, we will pretty much automatically start discussing it in an often fierce manner. And it's never a personal attack on each other, nor do we get emotionally involved. But a few times, after such an 'argument', I've had people who saw it ask 'is everything alright?' or try to calm us down. Which surprises me, because well, we were just having a discussion? And weren't upset/not calm? I have no idea what that means though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    @unefille: most of what you are describing does not conflict with being IEE, I think. I think it's strange that you question your former type by comparing it to EIE. If you would have considered ILE or something from the Delta quadra, that would have made more sense.

    I have a question for you: your questions so far evolve around social interaction. What is it you do when you spend a significant amount of time alone?
    Hmm, I'm considering EIE (and possibly IEI) largely because it's been suggested to me by quite a few people that EIE is how I across. I think it's only fair to make a fair effort looking into the possibility - it's unlikely my mind would have gone here, on its own. I have considered ILE, but Fi PoLR and Ti ego is fairly unlikely, IME.

    What am I like alone?

    I'm not particularly fond of being alone. I read, I write, I will paint - I will try to find activities to pass the time. I go online (as you can see) and sometimes I go crazy on wikipedia, learning new information. A lot of what was said about IEEs and the 'information hunt' and wanting to absorb a lot of new information and knowledge really resonates with me. Too much time alone, entertaining myself, though and I can get very...lost. I feel myself sort of sinking, with nothing there to do or occupy myself with. I talk to myself quite a bit (the curse of being an only child!), but even that gets old. Time sort of stops having meaning because nothing is really happening. Days kind of meld together. I can feel myself sinking. With weeks alone, everything actually loses colour and becomes a lot more 'grey' and I need company and conversation to jolt me out of it.

    I love to travel, but I could never go to foreign places on my own. I need at least one, good companion to come with me. Then, I also have someone to shared the stories with. People are a big part of my life. As big as theories/ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    This really makes me think ENFj, and just beta in general. It's classic beta attitude - using emotional tactics (Fe) to influence others and their actions (Se). The way you talk about "grabbing their attention" and waking them up from their scholastic placidity suggests EIE: you care about them, but you're gonna do what you think is best for them in the end (ends> means -- beta) instead of just being nice to mitigate them in the present moment (which tends to be a them with SiFe or SiFi). The attitude of the other teachers more closely resembles alpha/delta.
    I'm seeing where this is going, but this would probably make it even more Beta: when I teach, I put on voices to read out literary texts and 'perform' them for the students. I will say provocative things to shock them, because I think it makes them engage. I also try to include everyone in the 'class environment', though if I can see that a student wants to be left alone, I leave them alone. I always encourage them to share their opinions, but I won't hesitate to tell them they're wrong. I think that encourages more frankness and respects the student's intellect more.
    ()
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    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    I thin part of her annoyance was in the other party not defining what their relationship was, but trying to date her by 'stealth' if you will.
    Yes, the 'stealth dating' tactics. What is up with that? I feel like I'm being tricked into something - like there's a trap awaiting me and when I realise, it'll be too late and I'll be stuck, not wanting to hurt them, but wanting out. Say no to 'dating by stealth'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by idolatrie View Post
    On the other hand, when we have different opinions on a topic, we will pretty much automatically start discussing it in an often fierce manner. And it's never a personal attack on each other, nor do we get emotionally involved. But a few times, after such an 'argument', I've had people who saw it ask 'is everything alright?' or try to calm us down. Which surprises me, because well, we were just having a discussion? And weren't upset/not calm? I have no idea what that means though.
    [I feel like maybe this should be in 'what's my type' now, since it's branched off a bit, but...]

    YES. We get into no-holds barred, heated discussions that seem to scare the people around us. The truth is, we would never turn that style of discussion onto them unless we thought they could handle it, so there is really nothing to fear from us. If I have a point to prove, I will do everything, including drawing diagrams and using the most bizarre analogies to make the point. We get very...energetic in these debates.

    Hahaha, I can get quite carried away sometimes when arguing/debating. I remember once I was 10 and my mother's friend, a high school Lit teacher gave me Robinson Crusoe to read. We had a really heated discussion after (I can't remember what I said - probably many stupid things: I was 10 after all), but I got really impatient at one point and said: 'LOOK. SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO ME!' Ha, that shocked my mother quite a bit. Her friend didn't seem to mind - I think he found me sort of precocious.
    ()
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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille View Post
    Hmm, I'm considering EIE (and possibly IEI) largely because it's been suggested to me by quite a few people that EIE is how I across. I think it's only fair to make a fair effort looking into the possibility - it's unlikely my mind would have gone here, on its own. I have considered ILE, but Fi PoLR and Ti ego is fairly unlikely, IME.

    What am I like alone?

    I'm not particularly fond of being alone. I read, I write, I will paint - I will try to find activities to pass the time. I go online (as you can see) and sometimes I go crazy on wikipedia, learning new information. A lot of what was said about IEEs and the 'information hunt' and wanting to absorb a lot of new information and knowledge really resonates with me. Too much time alone, entertaining myself, though and I can get very...lost. I feel myself sort of sinking, with nothing there to do or occupy myself with. I talk to myself quite a bit (the curse of being an only child!), but even that gets old. Time sort of stops having meaning because nothing is really happening. Days kind of meld together. I can feel myself sinking. With weeks alone, everything actually loses colour and becomes a lot more 'grey' and I need company and conversation to jolt me out of it.

    I love to travel, but I could never go to foreign places on my own. I need at least one, good companion to come with me. Then, I also have someone to shared the stories with. People are a big part of my life. As big as theories/ideas.
    I've been discussing this with my therpist today, who told me that this information hunt is basically a form of hoarding, but because I do it too much, I invoke depressions in the long run. Sounds like you are doing the same.

    Sharing stories is important to IEEs, because they really do not know what to think of something until they have told someone about it, perhaps even coming to the conclusion that their thoughts were erroneous. I doubt an EIE has such a need to resolve this kind of insecurities, but perhaps a confident EIE can talk about that.

    Also, do not forget that people are capable of playing roles if the situation asks for it. As a teacher, playing a forceful EIE role is sometimes more effective than being yourself, at last short term.

    I hope this helps in deciding upon your type.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille
    Too much time alone, entertaining myself, though and I can get very...lost. I feel myself sort of sinking, with nothing there to do or occupy myself with. I talk to myself quite a bit (the curse of being an only child!), but even that gets old. Time sort of stops having meaning because nothing is really happening. Days kind of meld together. I can feel myself sinking. With weeks alone, everything actually loses colour and becomes a lot more 'grey' and I need company and conversation to jolt me out of it.
    This has the spiritual, introspective undertone I would expect from a beta NF. An IEE would not be as likely to describe abstractions in such a subjective way, as their is object-based. It seemed like you were developing this inner image continually, which is what Ni (paired with Fe gives it the spiritual aspect) does.

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille
    I'm seeing where this is going, but this would probably make it even more Beta: when I teach, I put on voices to read out literary texts and 'perform' them for the students. I will say provocative things to shock them, because I think it makes them engage. I also try to include everyone in the 'class environment', though if I can see that a student wants to be left alone, I leave them alone. I always encourage them to share their opinions, but I won't hesitate to tell them they're wrong. I think that encourages more frankness and respects the student's intellect more.
    Yes, this feels beta. You want to enliven the situation with Fe emotional displays through the creativity of Ni, involve the students in the group atmosphere, and I think due to strong Fi (unlike an ESTp who would push people more), you know where people are at emotionally and respect their states (not forcing kids to join in if they don't want to). And the last portion has an vibe to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille
    Yes, the 'stealth dating' tactics. What is up with that? I feel like I'm being tricked into something - like there's a trap awaiting me and when I realise, it'll be too late and I'll be stuck, not wanting to hurt them, but wanting out. Say no to 'dating by stealth'.
    Possibly unvalued Fi - wanting more clear cut answers and emotional directness with the relationship (FeSe).

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille
    YES. We get into no-holds barred, heated discussions that seem to scare the people around us. The truth is, we would never turn that style of discussion onto them unless we thought they could handle it, so there is really nothing to fear from us. If I have a point to prove, I will do everything, including drawing diagrams and using the most bizarre analogies to make the point. We get very...energetic in these debates.
    This is how I am with my beta friends. People from other quadras think we're going over-the-top or w/e, but it's just normal to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by unefille
    Hahaha, I can get quite carried away sometimes when arguing/debating. I remember once I was 10 and my mother's friend, a high school Lit teacher gave me Robinson Crusoe to read. We had a really heated discussion after (I can't remember what I said - probably many stupid things: I was 10 after all), but I got really impatient at one point and said: 'LOOK. SHUT UP AND LISTEN TO ME!' Ha, that shocked my mother quite a bit. Her friend didn't seem to mind - I think he found me sort of precocious.
    You're beta, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Sharing stories is important to IEEs, because they really do not know what to think of something until they have told someone about it, perhaps even coming to the conclusion that their thoughts were erroneous. I doubt an EIE has such a need to resolve this kind of insecurities, but perhaps a confident EIE can talk about that.
    Hmm. I'm pretty certain I don't want someone to share the story with in order to have them clarify what I thought of the events. I travelled with idolatrie and sometimes we're telling the stories and she's got a different spin on something, and I don't hesitate to correct her. I don't doubt my own memories or what actually happened.

    I enjoy telling stories, generally. I find it entertaining, for both myself and other people. I like sharing experiences with people because then they also become a source of memory for me. Like once, walking down a street with the sun shining, I was suddenly reminded of some happy things that took place around the same time the year before, because of the weather. And I could call someone who went on that trip with me to talk to them about it, which made it nice, because I like that shared sense of remembrance.

    I'm definitely keeping the 'playing the role of teacher' thing in mind, but different teachers, valuing different things, would probably affect different personas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unefille
    I like sharing experiences with people because then they also become a source of memory for me. Like once, walking down a street with the sun shining, I was suddenly reminded of some happy things that took place around the same time the year before, because of the weather. And I could call someone who went on that trip with me to talk to them about it, which made it nice, because I like that shared sense of remembrance.
    Again, this feels more beta - specifically, Ni > Si. When Si people recollect events, it tends to have a detailed quality, as if they are experiencing it again. The way you described it points more to Ni, as their recollections of things tend to have a more abstract quality, as if they are experiencing the underlying vibe of it again.

    For example: this morning I was awake, and I saw the school bus come. I have graduated high school, but when I looked at the school bus, my Ni immediately went back into the past and, combined with Fe vibes, placed me in the "mind state" from this past school year. I was able to feel the underlying vibes of where I was at, see my perspective on things, etc.
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    Yes; I think when Si-valuing types recount past events they probably tend to do more sensory association: what the sun felt like on your skin, the specific way the light was playing on water; with Ni-valuing types, I think there tends to be a more nostalgic quality, as if everything comes back in a rush, all at once, and you get a kind of summation of the emotional experience of the "time-space" that is being recalled.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    Yes; I think when Si-valuing types recount past events they probably tend to do more sensory association: what the sun felt like on your skin, the specific way the light was playing on water; with Ni-valuing types, I think there tends to be a more nostalgic quality, as if everything comes back in a rush, all at once, and you get a kind of summation of the emotional experience of the "time-space" that is being recalled.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Yes; I think when Si-valuing types recount past events they probably tend to do more sensory association: what the sun felt like on your skin, the specific way the light was playing on water; with Ni-valuing types, I think there tends to be a more nostalgic quality, as if everything comes back in a rush, all at once, and you get a kind of summation of the emotional experience of the "time-space" that is being recalled.
    Yes! Like I'm walking somewhere I spent a lot of time in the past and suddenly, all this remembered feeling comes rushing back. I feel the exact despair, joy, misery I felt when I was last there: places especially have a really strong emotional resonance for me. And sometimes, certain sounds suddenly transport me from the present into the past and there is this really strong sense of nostalgia that can be quite overwhelming.
    ()
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    BETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABE TABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETA BETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABE TABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETA BETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABE TABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETA BETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABE TABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETABETA
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    *reaches for the CASE CLOSED stamp*
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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