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Thread: Beta description on Wikisocion - too focused on Fe?

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    jcavosr's Avatar
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    Default Beta description on Wikisocion - too focused on Fe?

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Beta

    I had been looking over the Beta quadra description on wikisocion. Is it just me, or does anyone else think the description of Fe+Ni is very Fe focused? Could there be a better descriptive synthesis of the two?

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    I think most Betas would agree that it is not representative. I'll write a better one when I have the time.

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    Actually I like it! While it may seem Fe-focused I see it as defining the behaviour/mannerisms of betas in groups dominated by betas, rather than defining the idiosyncrasies of individual betas, and I think that's what a general Beta values description should do. Beta groups are very Fe-focused, without the Fe the betas would stop participating and go off doing their own thing and it would cease being a group
    INFp-Ni

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    I don't related much to the Beta descriptions, especially when it comes to the whole group behavior thing, and also when being described as loud and rowdy. Whenever groups become too large loud and annoying it overwhelms me, and I'll usually sneak off to do my own thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    I think it's right on.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I don't related much to the Beta descriptions, especially when it comes to the whole group behavior thing, and also when being described as loud and rowdy. Whenever groups become too large loud and annoying it overwhelms me, and I'll usually sneak off to do my own thing.
    Yup, very much so.
    INFp

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    Oh I didn't see the edit. I agree Glam, it's a lot better, especially this:

    Talking about personal matters in a group is not something that Betas generally do. It's viewed almost as treachery when something that was told in a one-on-one conversation is retold in front of a group, or when someone criticizes another person's traits in front of the group. Betas believe such things should be told in private and should not be used to embarrass or belittle a friend.
    If somebody chooses to do this around me they will surly receive the death glare.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Oh I didn't see the edit. I agree Glam, it's a lot better, especially this:

    If somebody chooses to do this around me they will surly receive the death glare.
    Yes I agree.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I don't related much to the Beta descriptions, especially when it comes to the whole group behavior thing, and also when being described as loud and rowdy. Whenever groups become too large loud and annoying it overwhelms me, and I'll usually sneak off to do my own thing.
    i'm that way too when it comes to casual groups but theoretically beta groups are supposed to organize around a common goal/cause and goals/causes don't really present themselves unless there's some kind of crisis.

    personally i find "casual" groups are usually temperament based (especially with EPs lol those wankers) rather than encompassing a whole quadra. In fact I don't think I've ever really come upon a casual social group that had every type from a quadra represented - they're based more upon immediate wants (things meant to protect members from boredom) rather than needs (things meant to prevent members from threats)
    INFp-Ni

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    I have just read the whole page of the "beta Quadra" description. Through i believe the part on "Dominant element" about each type to be very correct, I do think the group behavior is a little off, Too much specific details to fit in everyone whose in the beta quardra. As of the romance part i do believe that Beta is the most intense quardra romanace wise, sometimes too much to scare away other potenial partners in other quardra, Lack of SI i would believe. in more favor of Ni, where we can sort of idealize too much into the relaionship, rather than just let the relaionship flow. As to the perception of the other quardra, i just think that, that is completely off, maybe to certain betas it fits, but of course it cannot be used to fit in everyone who belongs to the beta quardra. Overall, i think whoever wrote the page, is judging based on his observation on the betas. My guess is that he may used an example of some very outspoken Beta indivuals to fit it all into every Beta.
    (D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno View Post
    1)
    A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
    My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

    2)
    A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
    My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

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    my guess is that kioshi is most likely some manner of delta.

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    It's true that Betas are the fascist commanders of the world, as well as the most dedicated followers. FUCKINGHEIL!

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    Quadra descriptions of Beta have always occurred to me way too focused on some kind of "group" mentality. My main objective has generally been to avoid the herd until recently -- when I began to feel too isolated and insular.

    I can only "opt in" to groups if I feel I'm able to feel they do not entirely define who I am. I'm also a poor team member, as I generally have my own personal agenda and have difficulty putting it aside for the advancement of group goals.

    Beta types are not inclined to enjoy discussions of personal experiences when the focus is on a person's own inner feelings, especially when described in a subdued way.
    Um. Those activities are actually pretty much lifeblood for me. My modus operandi. Ultimately, if I find I can't connect with someone's inner feelings, I simply can't relate to them. Superficial connection just to have "group fun" or keep good feelings feels hollow and thin and generally unsatisfying.

    Beta type don't so much enjoy relaxed personal activities as they do competitive group activities.
    Relaxed personal activities and one-on-one have always been most fulfilling. I'm actually very greedy for personal time with close friends. It's been described as soul-sucking on occasion (last night in fact).

    The only part of the description I don't take issue with is the "Romance styles". That's spot on.
    socio: INFp - IEI
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Quadra descriptions of Beta have always occurred to me way too focused on some kind of "group" mentality. My main objective has generally been to avoid the herd until recently -- when I began to feel too isolated and insular.

    I can only "opt in" to groups if I feel I'm able to feel they do not entirely define who I am. I'm also a poor team member, as I generally have my own personal agenda and have difficulty putting it aside for the advancement of group goals.
    I agree with your assessment. The group's emotional well-being is important if I'm to stick around, but the act of joining a (social) group is rarely for the group itself; instead, joining a group is about acquiring something I feel I need in order to continue progressing (new friends; conversation; naked activities...) rather than for the feeling of belonging to a group.

    And I really don't like being perceived as belonging to a group, either. I know many people (myself included) tend to define others based on the groups in which they run. At least in my reality, groups exist and generally only perform one or two activities well (e.g. drinking, socializing, exercise, working, debating, etc.), yet a person is defined by far more than the traits those groups and activities entail.

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Ultimately, if I find I can't connect with someone's inner feelings, I simply can't relate to them. Superficial connection just to have "group fun" or keep good feelings feels hollow and thin and generally unsatisfying.
    Truth; well-put.

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcavosr
    I had been looking over the Beta quadra description on wikisocion. Is it just me, or does anyone else think the description of Fe+Ni is very Fe focused?
    I resonate with most of the stuff in the other blocks, but yes the Fe+Ni one does seem very Fe-centered. It sort of depends on the context though.

    Beta types tend to enjoy group activities where the whole group participates in generating a common emotional atmosphere, as in laughing at jokes, etc.
    I don't know if I relate to this.

    Beta types tend to feel energized in the presence of people who share their beliefs and express them with obvious enthusiasm and emotion.
    Sometimes too much enthusiasm makes me ill. (not literally)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    But I suspect my perceptions are not going to change simply to confirm some hypothesis.
    nor will mine.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Hmmm...this fits for the most part, but I dislike the assumed rejection of philosophical attitudes. Personally I think Beta is up there with Alpha in terms of having philosophical inclinations, but rather they use it as fuel for their world-views, or to "work up" to or support a project or goal.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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