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Thread: INTjs difficulty in forgiving

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    Creepy-guest

    Default INTjs difficulty in forgiving

    Its too difficult for me to forgive others ( Most difficult thing for me ) .. I tend to carry grudges. Can you give some tips to forgive.

    guest(INTJ)

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    Understand that it is your own insecurity that is not allowing you to move on. Figure out what you are insecure about and then decide it's okay. Understand that it is illogical to continue to feel bad about it.
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    Default Re: INTJ's difficulty in forgiving

    Quote Originally Posted by guest
    Its too difficult for me to forgive others ( Most difficult thing for me ) .. I tend to carry grudges. Can you give some tips to forgive.

    guest(INTJ)

    if you bring the past into the future/present too much, then you only relive the past, and stagnate. I'm no master of this.................

    In fact, I am somewhat of a hardass on people who don't show progress....... well, I have been in the past.

    I would, especially for an INTj, suggest detachement, and zen, too. You only need to concern yourself with yourself, most of the time...
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Creepy-guest

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    [I would, especially for an INTj, suggest detachement, and zen, too. You only need to concern yourself with yourself, most of the time...]

    Can you elaborate this please ?

    guest[INTJ]

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    forget it.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Creepy-

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    Hello UDP,

    Thats an excellent description !!!!!!!!!!

    Thanks for that.

    guest[INTJ]

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    well, we are known to have little or no outward regard for emotion. sometimes it is the same on the inside, but it is not without great deliberation in these cases, for a decision made internally must be weighed internally after the internalness has decided that all necessary external things have been accounted for so that the all-important internal decision making proceedings may begin.

    in short, forgiveness is a cheap and easy way for INTj's to hold an emotional bar over another's head, since we are so helpless when it comes to exuding any other sort of emotional sway. you guys probably deserved it anyways and we are making sure to get you back for it. pathetic, i know. oh well.
    lol

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    It's not efficient to hold grudges.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    such an ENTj thing to say!

    but seriously, i get passionately angry about things, but after a while it's too tiring to hold a grudge. i never forget a serious wrong, and sometimes i don't forgive either, but i don't stay angry forever.

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    UDP,

    I suggest you have a read of Neo-Tech Pleasures:

    http://www.neo-tech.com/pleasures/preface.html

    It is essentially, love and sex explained for Rational NT's (or Promethean temperament). A useful read for anyone though.

    It is not a philosophy per se, it is a set of ideas and concepts that can applied to your life. It may require reading a few times to fully integrate into your mental matrix.

    SnowyC
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Understand that it is your own insecurity that is not allowing you to move on. Figure out what you are insecure about and then decide it's okay. Understand that it is illogical to continue to feel bad about it.
    Agree. Could be that a big part of your inability to forgive is the fact that you feel angry at yourself for having gotten into the situation in the first place. Example: I'm having trouble forgiving a friend of mine for some things she did, and I've always wondered why. Yes, of course, she hurt me a lot, but that still doesn't explain why it's so bloody hard to just move on. Now I think it's precisely because of that. Big part of what I'm finding hard to forgive is, how could I be so stupid?! I should have known she'd do just the thing she ended up doing. The signs were there. I overlooked them. Duh. So, this is what I'm probably unable to forgive... Of course, in that case the person I'm mad at is myself. But since this anger is subconscious anyway, I didn't realize that and it got mixed up in my being angry with her.

    Hope that makes sense.

    Some things that could also help is, try to differenciate between feeling angry, feeling hurt, and feeling unable to forgive.

    The usual course of things seems to be this--
    1. feel angry, hurt, betrayed, whatever, and relive the situation
    2. express those feelings (even if it's just with a frown)
    3. tell them to someone and get comforted
    4. compensate yourself for the loss (say, if the event has isolated you, try to find ways to feel good about yourself and/or make new friends)
    5. think logically about the situation (why did it happen the way it did, what part of it was the other person's fault, what was my own fault, etc)
    ...and THEN, after you've done all that, you're ready to forgive. That's the theory at least. No idea if it really takes us that long, but my experience points towards the horrible truth that this theory is more or less correct. Forgiveness is an awful lot of work.

    It's something you do for the moment, not forever. You're hurt, and this will cause you to feel angry and hurt again. (And again. And again.) When those feelings pop up, just tell yourself: "Yes, what they've done was wrong and it has hurt me a lot, and I've forgiven them." Then forgive them again and just let go. For the moment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowyc
    It is essentially, love and sex explained for Rational NT's (or Promethean temperament).
    LOL, you outgoing introvert.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    How bizzare that a few of you feel this way; I have difficulty HOLDING grudges.

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    Don't forget MS that a lot of the INTjs that stumble in off of search engines aren't really INTjs.
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    Yes, all of these new INTjs act so differently than older INTjs like Mystic or Pedro.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    maybe they just don't tell everyone.
    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowyc
    UDP,

    I suggest you have a read of Neo-Tech Pleasures:

    http://www.neo-tech.com/pleasures/preface.html

    It is essentially, love and sex explained for Rational NT's (or Promethean temperament). A useful read for anyone though.

    It is not a philosophy per se, it is a set of ideas and concepts that can applied to your life. It may require reading a few times to fully integrate into your mental matrix.

    SnowyC

    Alright. I will check it out soon
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    Yes, all of these new INTjs act so differently than older INTjs like Mystic or Pedro.
    they still haven't cracked yet

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    I assume it has something to do with the different subtypes, and ..... god dammit, just who you you present yourself as.....

    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Default Re: INTJ's difficulty in forgiving

    Quote Originally Posted by guest
    Its too difficult for me to forgive others ( Most difficult thing for me ) .. I tend to carry grudges. Can you give some tips to forgive.

    guest(INTJ)
    probably won't help, but i don't forgive. period.

    if it's about doing something correctly, and they are incompotent, they have to improve for me to forgive. if they lied to me, depending on the degree and amount of times - i may never forgive them. simply shut them out of my mind.

    i suppose if i if i had to place forgivness - it's when they come to my expectations of them. they need to re-prove themselves to me in some way. otherwise, my brain simply allows them some freedom, it may be a chemical thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ILENTp
    The INTjs I know don't seem to bear grudges. They're sensible when it comes to these things.
    i hold LOTS of grudges - you simply won't know it. unless you really press into me. ideally if i'm holding a grudge, i'll withhold information. like a manager taking my ideas and using them as his own. when that happens, i give a few freebies - guage it, then stop giving them.

    anyone making me mad, i'll shut them out.

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    that's a tad bit extreme, but you explained it better than i did.
    lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ

    anyone making me mad, i'll shut them out.

    :rockon



    INTj, one of the sacred masters of the "blizzard" spell, drawing upon the supreme coldness of a detached being. Muah hah hah !!!!!!
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ILENTp
    The INTjs I know don't seem to bear grudges. They're sensible when it comes to these things.
    when i was younger (i.e. teenager) i was all hold-grudge-forever and stuff. very angry - lots of my trigger points were pushed at that stage of my life. but after a while, i realised it was holding me back, in a way. i wasn't free. i valued self-mastery over mastery over others (and grudge holding is only an illusionary/false mastery at that) so from then on i found i'm better at letting things go. i'd still make a mental note, so that the event doesn't happen again (i hate making the same mistake twice), but i'm getting much better at leaving such things in the past.

    i don't know whether INTjs in general are supposed to be more disposed to hold grudges, or more disposed to not hold grudges, though. it's not like i know any in real life.

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    I like to consider myself a forgiving guy. Still, I am one to note a person's behavior and I plan stuff with the expectation that he will consistently be himself. To me, holding a grudge involves actively working against someone, and if I'm doing that, I'm allowing something I can't control to hold me back.

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    oh, another reason why i grew out of grudge-holding. i reasoned that it was unnecessarily limiting my future options. you see, if you're holding a grudge/having a vengeance mindset, you're fixing that person to the same character forever. he's (or she) scum and will never change in your mind. even though like nivek said, i'd plan my actions assuming that the person hasn't changed, on the other hand i would also like to be able to notice if the guy does change. plus, there's a tiny possibility that i was mistaken when i was angry with that person, so if i'm deep into a grudge i won't be able to see it if the mistake is revealed. not to mention it would likely be much more deeply embarrassing.

    in short, holding a grudge destroys your ability to assess the issue with any sort of neutrality. which could bring much regret. also it could be my Ne kicking in, disliking to restrict possibilities?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ILENTp
    The INTjs I know don't seem to bear grudges. They're sensible when it comes to these things.
    yeah, definetely! they may look cold or aloof, not caring about people, but they are really sensitive, because of the as a role function. Fi, as I remember, is about feeling that it does not show outside.

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    i don't know whether INTjs in general are supposed to be more disposed to hold grudges, or more disposed to not hold grudges, though. it's not like i know any in real life.
    i don't think it's that we hold grudges more. it think it's more like, we can recognize more things to have a grudge on. and since we value truth quite a lot - many people don't keep the a truth solid. so it's easy to form grudges over things that could be quite small and trivial.

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    In other words---you do hold grudges more.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

  30. #30
    Creepy-pokeball

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ

    anyone making me mad, i'll shut them out.

    :rockon



    INTj, one of the sacred masters of the "blizzard" spell, drawing upon the supreme coldness of a detached being. Muah hah hah !!!!!!
    Ive seen all of the NJ's do that. Disconnection + silence = FU

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    heh heh heh.... never really thought of it that way
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_INTJ

    anyone making me mad, i'll shut them out.

    :rockon



    INTj, one of the sacred masters of the "blizzard" spell, drawing upon the supreme coldness of a detached being. Muah hah hah !!!!!!
    Ive seen all of the NJ's do that. Disconnection + silence = FU
    just disconnection, well, more so anyway. silence is natural. however people take the silence as a threat anyway. apparently people need to talk or make noise of some kind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jadae
    Ive seen all of the NJ's do that. Disconnection + silence = FU
    interesting.. i've always thought of it as an IJ thing

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    silence is natural. however people take the silence as a threat anyway. apparently people need to talk or make noise of some kind.




    Yes....... silence.

    It's the sound, in nature, when everything around you knows "something bad is coming". The sound of the predator, of the storm.



    There is good reason to feel uneasy.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  35. #35
    Creepy-pokeball

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP
    silence is natural. however people take the silence as a threat anyway. apparently people need to talk or make noise of some kind.




    Yes....... silence.

    It's the sound, in nature, when everything around you knows "something bad is coming". The sound of the predator, of the storm.



    There is good reason to feel uneasy.
    That is one possible perspective but there is also the perspective that one is being actively disassociated "from the pack" so it is also social. That is if the one being associated cares about being left out in which case the majority do.

    re: IJ's. Maybe as well. Personally I have no issues ignoring anyone that is an attention-whore with zero substance, is rude, or is threatening to everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirana
    such an ENTj thing to say!

    but seriously, i get passionately angry about things, but after a while it's too tiring to hold a grudge. i never forget a serious wrong, and sometimes i don't forgive either, but i don't stay angry forever.
    i agree with the first

    i have very black moods. generally i will carry some black weight on my heart until there is some understanding of what has been done. in general i do try to brush things off but INTjs may find the "strangest" things despicable..

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