Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 301

Thread: the definition of Fe

  1. #1
    High Priestess glam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,388
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default the definition of Fe

    fyi
    Black (extraverted) ethics
    Perceives information about processes taking place in objects — first of all, emotional processes that are taking place in people, their excitation or subduedness, and their moods. This perceptual element implies the ability to know what excites people, and what suppresses them. It defines a person's ability or inability to control his emotional state, and also the emotional states of other people.

    When this element is in the leading position, the individual has the innate ability to induce or convey his moods to others and energize people with his emotions. He is able to activate the psychological/spiritual lives of other people and their emotional readiness for action. You might say that such a person has the ability to infect others with his moods and tends to impose on others the emotional states that he considers beneficial for their life activities.

    What people usually call emotions or a person's display of emotions is neither more nor less than a form of letting out this internal excitation directly, almost without expending it in muscle activity. A cheerful person who laughs releases an emotional charge and inner excitation through certain movements of the muscles of the face and body. This might be a means for reducing overexcitement, when inner exertion cannot be used for the activity it was intended for. But it can also be a conscious method of conveying one's excitement/agitation to others — inducing one's internal excitement/agitation in the psyches of other people. Anger, for example, is also a way of reducing overexcitement, but it is usually directed not at arousing others emotionally, but at emotionally suppressing and depleting them, at lowering their activity level, or at strictly channeling their activity.

  2. #2
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    paste this shit in allie's thread
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  3. #3
    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    TIM
    ESE
    Posts
    3,535
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Regardless of anything else, I am SO Fe.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



  4. #4
    expired Lotus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    TIM
    Se/Ni sx/sp
    Posts
    4,494
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I AM NOT FE VALUING WILL EVERYONE PLEASE REALIZE THIS THANK YOU FE TYPES FOR SHOVING ME OUT YOUR QUADRAS eh
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  5. #5
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Carla
    + 5.8273
    I was expecting an extra 100th...
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  6. #6
    expired Lotus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    TIM
    Se/Ni sx/sp
    Posts
    4,494
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I wasn't trying to argue about your type, really. I was motivated more by the erroneous statements I saw/have seen here about Fe.
    That's what I thought, actually. And I'm glad you made this thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    A real Fi valuer wouldnt say something like that. lol
    jals;dkfjal;vh;fdlks;
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  7. #7
    expired Lotus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    TIM
    Se/Ni sx/sp
    Posts
    4,494
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    You're just making this too easy.
    ay?
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  8. #8
    expired Lotus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    TIM
    Se/Ni sx/sp
    Posts
    4,494
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Go home Fi-valuer... we don't want you anymore. There. Happy?
    But the Fi-valuers don't want me either. I'm homeless
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  9. #9
    expired Lotus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    TIM
    Se/Ni sx/sp
    Posts
    4,494
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    I WANT YOU ALLIE

    In fact, now that I think about it, everybody wants you. You're just cool that way.
    ;lkdjfa;sldkfj;asldkfja;sdlfkjasd;flkjl

    semi colons r hawt
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  10. #10
    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Space
    TIM
    Seer
    Posts
    12,818
    Mentioned
    368 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)

    Default

    I wonder why Fe seems to be so misunderstood? :-/
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

  11. #11
    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    TIM
    Introvert sp/sx
    Posts
    7,739
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I wonder why Fe seems to be so misunderstood? :-/
    Because everyone seems to think it's all surfacey and lightweight.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

  12. #12
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,167
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ruth, if nothing else, just knowing you exist confirms that I am SLE.

    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    Regardless of anything else, I am SO Fe.
    Yes, yes you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    I AM NOT FE VALUING WILL EVERYONE PLEASE REALIZE THIS THANK YOU FE TYPES FOR SHOVING ME OUT YOUR QUADRAS eh
    A real Fi valuer wouldnt say something like that. lol
    Pr0bz rYt lulz!!1

    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    ;lkdjfa;sldkfj;asldkfja;sdlfkjasd;flkjl

    semi colons r hawt
    See, even this response chimes Fe valuing. dolphin just used heavy Fe here, and you responded well to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I wonder why Fe seems to be so misunderstood? :-/
    Because everyone seems to think it's all surfacey and lightweight.
    BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE FUCKING PRICKS

  13. #13
    expired Lotus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    TIM
    Se/Ni sx/sp
    Posts
    4,494
    Mentioned
    99 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Because everyone seems to think it's all surfacey and lightweight.
    The things is Ezra, for me it is surfacey and lightweight means of entertainment. I think if I was Fe valuing I wouldn't be taking it as a joke.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

  14. #14
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    15,635
    Mentioned
    157 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Perceives information about processes taking place in objects — first of all, emotional processes that are taking place in people, their excitation or subduedness, and their moods.
    I think I might somewhat be able to do this, but only if I really try and focus on it. Usually I can catch which mood the other person is in, but I don't really feel like I know what to do to change it (if I think I want it to change).

    This perceptual element implies the ability to know what excites people, and what suppresses them. It defines a person's ability or inability to control his emotional state, and also the emotional states of other people.
    I'd like to think Iknow what excites people, but I generally am wrong when I try to apply this IRL, lol. I can actually become somewhat annoying when I'm in this type of mood.

    When this element is in the leading position, the individual has the innate ability to induce or convey his moods to others and energize people with his emotions.
    Eh, no way. I don't have very strong emotions, there's no way I could energize others with them.

    He is able to activate the psychological/spiritual lives of other people and their emotional readiness for action. You might say that such a person has the ability to infect others with his moods and tends to impose on others the emotional states that he considers beneficial for their life activities.
    Mbah. If I see somebody that is feeling bad, and I care about the person, I might try to raise their mood, but really it's mostly up to the person to recognize this attempt because it's more of a "prodding", I feel like I am tringly blindly when I do this.

    What people usually call emotions or a person's display of emotions is neither more nor less than a form of letting out this internal excitation directly, almost without expending it in muscle activity.
    Nope, not really. I think some people have said that on cam I appear "controlled" with my emotions, but it's not like that: they simply are not present! I have a lot of energy, but it's more mental/physical. Surely I like to laugh, though.
    A cheerful person who laughs releases an emotional charge and inner excitation through certain movements of the muscles of the face and body. This might be a means for reducing overexcitement, when inner exertion cannot be used for the activity it was intended for. But it can also be a conscious method of conveying one's excitement/agitation to others — inducing one's internal excitement/agitation in the psyches of other people. Anger, for example, is also a way of reducing overexcitement, but it is usually directed not at arousing others emotionally, but at emotionally suppressing and depleting them, at lowering their activity level, or at strictly channeling their activity.
    Well sometimes when I've had a very bad day I might snap at people and that definitely causes a bit of a release. But it doesn't happen often at all (maybe 3 times a year), and it's not conscious, and I don't even like it when it happens - it seems like I am using people for my own amusement...
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  15. #15
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Allie
    The things is Ezra, for me it is surfacey and lightweight means of entertainment. I think if I was Fe valuing I wouldn't be taking it as a joke.
    Yes, thank you. Real Fe valuers do take it seriously. I know I've sort of viewed it as an arena for competition where each move you make is very significant (which is probably more beta Fe, but that only strengthens the case against IEI for you). This is kind of the idea about Fe's intentionality - deliberately caring to affect the atmosphere in some way (that benefits you). More recently, I have come to see that Allie's emotional displays are nothing more than misguided boredom and that she attaches virtually nothing to them.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  16. #16
    xyz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,709
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hrm, well, if this is Fe, then I can safely say I'm nowhere near it.

    Eh, "knowing what makes people excited"? You mean, other than sex?
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

  17. #17
    aka-kitsune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    966
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Black (extraverted) ethics

    ... It defines a person's ability or inability to control his emotional state, and also the emotional states of other people.
    wtf does this mean? Ability or inability? Which is it? Or is this situational, maybe...?

    As for myself, I can't really say I've developed any good conscious control of my emotional state. And I guess I do sometimes use it creatively to affect my environment... albeit often in a completely unfocused and unpredictable manner. Kinda like meltdown of a nuclear reactor.

    I also don't like to think I might directly "manipulate" people or seek to control their emotional states -- this seems somewhat unethical, not to mention more likely to attract recrimination. Although perhaps I've just done this more indirectly, more in terms of acting as an influence rather than a direct motivator. ( creative rather than leading)
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

  18. #18
    aka-kitsune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    966
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Eh, "knowing what makes people excited"? You mean, other than sex?
    Heh.

    Not really. I think it means more like knowing what their emotional "triggers" are and what they react to. I note these things rather instinctively. I'm interested in what people are passionate about. I'll make mental notes about what subjects they become interested and engaged in discussions. I'll also make use of my observations to buy them gifts or tell them things that I know will interest them.

    Like last night -- a friend of a friend was having a birthday dinner. I don't know her real well, but I noted her excited reaction to "bendy straws" at another time, so I picked some up and gave them to her as a kinda gag type gift. She seemed perplexed that I'd have noticed smth so seemingly insignificant about her.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

  19. #19
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune
    wtf does this mean? Ability or inability? Which is it? Or is this situational, maybe...?
    I think it has to do with a certain conscious control over your own energy and thus your ability to affect others' energy or the energy in the atmosphere.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  20. #20

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    Because everyone seems to think it's all surfacey and lightweight.
    to Fi types, it is.

  21. #21
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    to Fi types, it is.
    No, actually it's not - or shouldn't be. A healthy individual should be able to appreciate non-quadra functions, even if they don't enjoy that type of atmosphere, because there is no better or worse. The fact that you have such a strong bias towards Fi (or what you deem Fi) and place Fe (or what you deem Fe) down in the gutter as something unworthy of your attention only demonstrates lack of understanding. And why would an INTp who supposedly understands the functions well be so dismissive of one function? Seems like an over-compensation to me.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  22. #22
    tereg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    TIM
    EII/INFj
    Posts
    4,684
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    Black (extraverted) ethics
    Perceives information about processes taking place in objects — first of all, emotional processes that are taking place in people, their excitation or subduedness, and their moods. This perceptual element implies the ability to know what excites people, and what suppresses them. It defines a person's ability or inability to control his emotional state, and also the emotional states of other people.

    When this element is in the leading position, the individual has the innate ability to induce or convey his moods to others and energize people with his emotions. He is able to activate the psychological/spiritual lives of other people and their emotional readiness for action. You might say that such a person has the ability to infect others with his moods and tends to impose on others the emotional states that he considers beneficial for their life activities.

    What people usually call emotions or a person's display of emotions is neither more nor less than a form of letting out this internal excitation directly, almost without expending it in muscle activity. A cheerful person who laughs releases an emotional charge and inner excitation through certain movements of the muscles of the face and body. This might be a means for reducing overexcitement, when inner exertion cannot be used for the activity it was intended for. But it can also be a conscious method of conveying one's excitement/agitation to others — inducing one's internal excitement/agitation in the psyches of other people. Anger, for example, is also a way of reducing overexcitement, but it is usually directed not at arousing others emotionally, but at emotionally suppressing and depleting them, at lowering their activity level, or at strictly channeling their activity.
    I know I've mentioned this to some of you, but this is an analogy I use and the visual I see as what I see as in action edit: as it relates to how I see the description above (though significantly biased, I hope that you can see what I'm talking about)

    [Aside: I've been looking all day to find the right clip to show what it is I see in my mind, but I'm going to have to show a few clips I'm afraid]

    The point I'm trying to make here is focus on what the DJ or others on stage are doing (both musically and more directly i.e. "PUT YOUR HANDS TOGETHER") to get the crowd involved (which I believe to be the stage evoking an emotional response from the crowd).

    Edit: I consider the emotional response in these instances that the stage is trying to evoke is the euphoric emotion.





    http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=hGfVRvikb38

    I hope this falls in line with what is.
    Last edited by tereg; 08-22-2008 at 06:30 PM.
    INFj

    9w1 sp/sx

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    No, actually it's not - or shouldn't be. A healthy individual should be able to appreciate non-quadra functions, even if they don't enjoy that type of atmosphere, because there is no better or worse. The fact that you have such a strong bias towards Fi (or what you deem Fi) and place Fe (or what you deem Fe) down in the gutter as something unworthy of your attention only demonstrates lack of understanding. And why would an INTp who supposedly understands the functions well be so dismissive of one function? Seems like an over-compensation to me.
    oh, that's right. Fi types love Fe. i forgot about that. forgive my dogmatic stupidity.

  24. #24
    strrrng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 4w3 sx/so
    Posts
    8,781
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed
    oh, that's right. Fi types love Fe. i forgot about that. forgive my dogmatic stupidity.
    I didn't say that they love it. I merely pointed out that dismissing it as petty and superficial seemed like an over-compensatory attitude and suggested lack of understanding of the functions.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I didn't say that they love it. I merely pointed out that dismissing it as petty and superficial seemed like an over-compensatory attitude and suggested lack of understanding of the functions.
    i didn't say it was petty and superficial (in this thread anyway), i said it appears petty and superficial to Fi types. and i stand by that.

    Fi might appear bitchy or overly self-righteous to Fe types. i stand by that as well.

  26. #26
    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    2,780
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    wtf does this mean? Ability or inability? Which is it? Or is this situational, maybe...?

    As for myself, I can't really say I've developed any good conscious control of my emotional state. And I guess I do sometimes use it creatively to affect my environment... albeit often in a completely unfocused and unpredictable manner. Kinda like meltdown of a nuclear reactor.

    I also don't like to think I might directly "manipulate" people or seek to control their emotional states -- this seems somewhat unethical, not to mention more likely to attract recrimination. Although perhaps I've just done this more indirectly, more in terms of acting as an influence rather than a direct motivator. ( creative rather than leading)
    My understanding is that ability implies base or creative; while inability implies PoLR. But on second thought, maybe it covers more than that.

    I hear you completely; the repercussions aren't worth it. But it is entirely possible to provoke people to laughter, anger, etc, without manipulating on a large scale.

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Heh.

    Not really. I think it means more like knowing what their emotional "triggers" are and what they react to. I note these things rather instinctively. I'm interested in what people are passionate about. I'll make mental notes about what subjects they become interested and engaged in discussions. I'll also make use of my observations to buy them gifts or tell them things that I know will interest them.

    Like last night -- a friend of a friend was having a birthday dinner. I don't know her real well, but I noted her excited reaction to "bendy straws" at another time, so I picked some up and gave them to her as a kinda gag type gift. She seemed perplexed that I'd have noticed smth so seemingly insignificant about her.
    I did that to a Fe-PoLR once; I found a bookmark in a bookstore that thought he might like (since he identified strongly with the character on it), bought it, and presented it to him. He was very touched and quite surprised.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

  27. #27
    aka-kitsune's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    966
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    I did that to a Fe-PoLR once; I found a bookmark in a bookstore that thought he might like (since he identified strongly with the character on it), bought it, and presented it to him. He was very touched and quite surprised.
    Yes. This works extremely well the more I'm "tuned in" to someone. Of course, I pay more attention when I want to affect someone; like I feel compelled to demonstrate my unique understanding of them with somewhat talismanic items of personal emotional significance.

    Once, I had a friend who had a small collection of 1st edition books. Since he had gotten me to read Huxley's Brave New World, when I was in London, one of the things I brought him back was a 1st ed. copy.

    Later, we saw The Maltese Falcon on the big screen (in special re-release) and I bought him the 1st ed. Hammett for his birthday.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

  28. #28
    Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    362
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i didn't say it was petty and superficial (in this thread anyway), i said it appears petty and superficial to Fi types. and i stand by that.

    Fi might appear bitchy or overly self-righteous to Fe types. i stand by that as well.
    My brother is 6 feet tall. When he's standing very far away he looks like a little ant. But he's not. He's always 6 feet tall regardless of how he appears.


    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post

    you seem to have no interest in expressing your internal state most of the time, rather relying on superficial external expression. Fe.
    You didn't word this right. The way you worded it here makes it seem like you think Fe is superficial external expression. Either that or you believed a misconception about Fe.

  29. #29

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robot View Post
    My brother is 6 feet tall. When he's standing very far away he looks like a little ant. But he's not. He's always 6 feet tall regardless of how he appears.
    i'm not sure what the relevance of your point is.

    You didn't word this right. The way you worded it here makes it seem like you think Fe is superficial external expression. Either that or you believed a misconception about Fe.
    i do think Fe is largely superficial external expression. and i think many Fi types would acquiesce.

  30. #30
    Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    362
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i'm not sure what the relevance of your point is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    To outsiders, it's looks like manipulability. Remember when we talked about how Betas look like they prefer group behaviour to outsiders? Same principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    A turd covered with lime can also look like a chocolate fudge cake to outsiders.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    But it's not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Exactly.
    .



    i do think Fe is largely superficial external expression. and i think many Fi types would acquiesce.
    It's not superficial. That's one of the central points of this thread.

  31. #31
    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    2,780
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Do you think that just because something's expressed outwardly, that makes it superficial? What if outward emotions express inward sentiments? Why would you think it's superficial just because someone chooses to show it? You don't just grab Fe out of the air. It has to come from somewhere.

    Just because it's different from Fi, doesn't mean its superficial. I don't care if it looks that way to you, many Fi users on this board do not share the same sentiments.
    I agree; be I Fi or Fe, I also say the external can come from the internal. It doesn't always happen (see ILEs), but that's not to say it never happens.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

  32. #32

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robot View Post
    .





    It's not superficial. That's one of the central points of this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    Do you think that just because something's expressed outwardly, that makes it superficial? What if outward emotions express inward sentiments? Why would you think it's superficial just because someone chooses to show it? You don't just grab Fe out of the air. It has to come from somewhere.

    Just because it's different from Fi, doesn't mean its superficial. I don't care if it looks that way to you, many Fi users on this board do not share the same sentiments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    I agree; be I Fi or Fe, I also say the external can come from the internal. It doesn't always happen (see ILEs), but that's not to say it never happens.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    If anything, I'd say that Fi can look really superficial to me sometimes. As in when someone tries to desperately hold on to expressing very strict and artificial sentiments (and bottles up emotions) in the face of an overwhelming need to express their real underlying feelings.

    But I find it neither helpfull nor correct to use this sort of method for typing -- especially because this type of behaviour represents an abnormality or a disease of the soul.

    all of you are merely proving my point.

  33. #33
    Currently God Brilliand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Nevada
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    4,246
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    all of you are merely proving my point.
    I think the point, though (for both sides) is that while you're expressing your instincts, we want to discuss this from an unbiased perspective. You know that you're biased, now get your bias out of the picture.



    LII-Ne

    "Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
    - Blair Houghton

    Johari

  34. #34
    Robot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    362
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Wait. Did I misunderstand? From what I read it seemed that a part of Fe was expressing what one is feeling. Ex.: A boy feels happy so he gives a wide grin and says,"I'm in a good mood today." Is that a part of what Fe is? Come to think of it that seems rather silly. Doesn't everyone express emotion? Or is there a whole group of people that never cry/smile/shout/etc. that I'm not aware of?
    Last edited by Robot; 08-23-2008 at 01:09 AM.

  35. #35
    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    TIM
    954
    Posts
    5,989
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    types are incapable of forming real or permanent bonds with other people. And even if they do, it's only a faint imitation of a real bond. They can't form the sorts of tight connections and relationships that types can because they're too superficial and transient in their feelings. Though these fleeting feelings are displayed in a really intense way, they cannot last. And so you're doomed to always forget those close to you, because they may have been close once, but will not be later. Bonds don't stick.

    types are overwhelmingly loyal to those who matter to them. And those who matter to them are of impeccable character. Except then they do something wrong, some kind of betrayal, and then they must be judged very very harshly. Maybe if they were "in essence" of good character and later they start acting "badly" they are now seen as having been of "bad character" all along (only it was hidden). So really everything that came before will suddenly be replaced by this re-assessment of their "character" as though none of it happened. Or maybe they are still of "good character" except need to be "repaired."

    (I'm not being serious...)

  36. #36

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    types are incapable of forming real or permanent bonds with other people. And even if they do, it's only a faint imitation of a real bond. They can't form the sorts of tight connections and relationships that types can because they're too superficial and transient in their feelings. Though these fleeting feelings are displayed in a really intense way, they cannot last. And so you're doomed to always forget those close to you, because they may have been close once, but will not be later. Bonds don't stick.

    types are overwhelmingly loyal to those who matter to them. And those who matter to them are of impeccable character. Except then they do something wrong, some kind of betrayal, and then they must be judged very very harshly. Maybe if they were "in essence" of good character and later they start acting "badly" they are now seen as having been of "bad character" all along (only it was hidden). So really everything that came before will suddenly be replaced by this re-assessment of their "character" as though none of it happened. Or maybe they are still of "good character" except need to be "repaired."

    (I'm not being serious...)
    this is not remotely an accurate representation of what i'm saying here.

  37. #37

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    I think its clearly natural for every human being to express both emotional as well as superficial sentiments... that these aren't tied to the continuous expression of a single function. A function is more like a general attitude towards a large-scale event, but does not necessarily carry the same attitude towards every single stimulus that crosses its path.

    You yourself engage in that sort of small-talk from time to time. You aren't necessarily excercising any one function when you do it. Just telling your lips to move.
    sure. i don't see the problem with any of that and what i was saying. certainly, Fe and Fi make up an ethical spectrum of sorts that can be somewhat blurred. nonetheless, in a general sense, the outward, group-environment-focused Fe easily can appear superficial to Fi types. and the lack thereof similarly missing the point to Fe types.

    all of your objections to this rather simple conclusion to me seem fairly ridiculous and all read like "OMG NIFFWEED IS TALKING SHIT ABOUT AGAIN LETS ALL TEAM UP ON HIM AND GET HIM TO TAKE IT BACK; IT MATTERS THAT PEOPLE RESPECT THAT IS AS GOOD AS " (this is how i interpret it anyway) -- which rather ironically is an Fe perspective by and large, and is completely missing the point. nothing i said is intended as a derogatory remark.

    I'm still on the fence about Allie's type (between G-SF and INFp). But I think it's possible to consider that what you may be seeing in Allie as "Fe" could just be her lack of Te. Factors related to her age, upringing and other socioeconomic conditions, as well as finding a comfortable "information" niche within socionix could be why she doesn't appear to aggressively seek out and defend as much Te as other Gamma SFs.
    no. take another look at what i've talked about allie. all of this information is largely irrelevant towards the overall nature of character/image that she presents here (ie age). the thing about finding a comfortable information niche in ashton/strrrng seems a rather direct manifestation of her type.

  38. #38
    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    2,780
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    sure. i don't see the problem with any of that and what i was saying. certainly, Fe and Fi make up an ethical spectrum of sorts that can be somewhat blurred. nonetheless, in a general sense, the outward, group-environment-focused Fe easily can appear superficial to Fi types. and the lack thereof similarly missing the point to Fe types.

    all of your objections to this rather simple conclusion to me seem fairly ridiculous and all read like "OMG NIFFWEED IS TALKING SHIT ABOUT AGAIN LETS ALL TEAM UP ON HIM AND GET HIM TO TAKE IT BACK; IT MATTERS THAT PEOPLE RESPECT THAT IS AS GOOD AS " (this is how i interpret it anyway) -- which rather ironically is an Fe perspective by and large, and is completely missing the point. nothing i said is intended as a derogatory remark.
    I obviously missed that in the beginning; my apologies. I didn't know you were presenting a side without endorsing it yourself. Actually, I haven't heard you blasting , because I haven't been around for a while. I can see how Fi and Fe-valuers would dismiss the other as having the wrong focus.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

  39. #39

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    all of your objections to this rather simple conclusion to me seem fairly ridiculous and all read like "OMG NIFFWEED IS TALKING SHIT ABOUT AGAIN LETS ALL TEAM UP ON HIM AND GET HIM TO TAKE IT BACK; IT MATTERS THAT PEOPLE RESPECT THAT IS AS GOOD AS " (this is how i interpret it anyway) -- which rather ironically is an Fe perspective by and large, and is completely missing the point. nothing i said is intended as a derogatory remark.
    also, it seems to me as though people like dolphin, glamourama, allie, loki, and starfall have consistently championed this view in the past as a sort of "counter-attack" against typings by gamma NTs which they incorrectly perceived as being derogatory towards beta by shunting "idiots" into the beta quadra.

    this is hardly fair; for one thing, i think that betas and alphas largely predominate on this board. furthermore, not all "gammas" are nice people; i still think that both hoodrat and possibly cpig might be gammas, and both of them i consider assholes who i'd prefer never to speak to again. (in both cases though i'm sort of prevented from getting an accurate diagnosis of their types by my unwillingness to have anything to do with them)

    i am perfectly willing to acknowledge it if beta NFs say things like "i think your understanding of Fe is wrong; here is why" (as in the definition of Fe thread glamourama posted recently). however, this often seems not to be the case, and the "OMG WHY DO YOU HATE BETAS" argument seems to take over.

  40. #40
    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    TIM
    ESI
    Posts
    2,780
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You're Gamma now, Nifweed? I had wondered, but I thought you were typed INTj.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

    Fruit, the fluffy kitty.

Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •