ME

[strrrng]

So, based on my last thread, there seems to be some general disagreement on which beta type fits best for me. I'm still open to suggestions, which is why I made this poll.

[aestrivex]

all four of them make some amount of sense.

[Lotus]

INFj

[Creepy-bg]

INFj

+2

[strrrng]

INFj

This was my gut instinct, but I didn't want to say anything too soon.

[strrrng]

So I read a few of the general functional position descriptions on the wiki, and a few that would apply to ISTj I related to. Such as...

The individual takes direct action to accomplish his goals and desires in the face of external obstacles, and also the interests of his close friends, family, or associates. This may involve prodding others to take necessary action, deliberately applying pressure in specific situations, or abruptly taking on an organizational role. The individual does not generally seek out confrontation, but he is also not afraid of it

I have always felt a strong control over my own will and an ability to readily take control of a situation without any help. I mentioned the exercise regime from before; that was my own doing, and frankly, the structured environment seemed to be my optimal performance mode.

He freely makes logical assertions (often exaggerated) about new information and experience.

This is obviously a general statement taken in isolation, and can mean one of two things: an IEI overindulging in their agenda to compensate, or an LSI having such confidence in his base function that he feels he can make proclamations without necessarily having to back them up, since he believes himself correct. I believe I mentioned this type of attitude in my other thread.

The individual seems largely unaware of the emotions, agitation, tension, or excitement he creates in others by the things he says and does

I cannot count the number of times my family has told me this. It's like, I love an Fe atmosphere, but maybe if the function was weak (and unconscious) I wouldn't have the same control over it that I would desire, and coupled with an Se ego, may make me come off as abrasive and rude at times without even meaning to. Like sometimes when I make jokes around the deltas in my family, it's like they have no clue how to respond (they're NF's). I think it's the Se of it that throws them off more than anything. Wouldn't an Fe ego type be able to mold the humor to his audience, whereas with me, I just want the Fe response?

The individual periodically needs an outside evaluation of how a situation is likely to develop in order to keep from worrying excessively.

Well, I guess this is a personal example, but fairly recently I sort of had this attitude manifest with a relationship. I was strongly attached to the person, and every time I felt a lack of certainty in the relationship, I would go off on meaningless tangents, absurd causality relationships about what would happen. It had virtually no order and seemed to be a compensation, maybe for not having a naturally preferred state? (TiSe)

Also, after rereading dj's pm to me, I think the part about Se was a little exaggerated. Also, if I was worried about saving face, that would suggest weak and unconscious Fe rather than ego, right? The thing is, confrontation has never bothered me. Whether he felt I made a few remarks and backed out is generally irrelevant, because I enjoy that atmosphere and will push it to the very end. I would expect INxp's, while valuing Se, to be a little more offset having it thrown in their face in a negative way by an Se ego type. dj's (a supposed Se ego type) past comments to me that could be construed as Se never offset me; it was more about the Fe image than anything else.

a few segments of my convo with niff...

NiffweedXVII (3:56:03 PM): but i do sort of have an easier time seeing you as a Ti type for things like that
strrrng (3:56:31 PM): yea, and even comparing my attitude towards things to yourself...with Se dual seeking or w/e
NiffweedXVII (3:57:51 PM): you seem sort of
NiffweedXVII (3:57:54 PM): more disciplined i guess

[strrrng]

Here is what I believe to be a hole in discojoe's argument about my Se. He claimed that I didn't seem to exercise the control over the force I exerted - or something to that extent - to the same degree of an Se ego type. The problem is, this is the internet. Do you honestly expect anyone to be intimidated by threats made on a forum? Secondly, a large part of Se has to do with body language; it is, after all, about controlling the variables in the environment and exercising control in a tactical way. It is virtually impossible to do this over the internet, as tone can be vastly misinterpreted, and due to other factors, such as the timing of the post and complete lack of physical presence, an Se ego type's "threat" (lol) can seem innocuous. Also, I disagree with his comment about me not wanting confrontation or being unsettled when Se is thrown at me. He is supposedly an Se ego type, and we had our little argument over who would win in a fight in that previous thread. I highly doubt anyone would say his posts reflected an effective method of willfully controlling the situation (in fact, Gilly told me right after that we both looked like little kids making stupid threats). So, point being, I think his argument for my lack of Se falls somewhat short.

I do, however, still think his argument for my apparent strong Fe is valid.

So respond with thoughts plz lol

[strrrng]

fuck this lol

[strrrng]

Despite all this great theorizing lol, I just spoke with my Se-ESTp friend and I really felt the duality. That's all.

[Gilly]

Despite all this great theorizing lol, I just spoke with my Se-ESTp friend and I really felt the duality. That's all.

lol...

In any case, IEI is still the best choice IMO.

[strrrng]

lol...

In any case, IEI is still the best choice IMO.

hmm...any prominent reasons?

[Lotus]

You look like a victim.

[Gilly]

hmm...any prominent reasons?

Well I think Beta is pretty obvious, IP temperament certainly fits best, you seem more intuitive than sensory, and I have to agree with discojoe that your emotional reactions to arguments seem, if not always blatantly obvious, at least "there."

And, anyone who gets hard on a babysitter putting them in time out is obviously a Victim...DUH

[strrrng]

Well I think Beta is pretty obvious, IP temperament certainly fits best, you seem more intuitive than sensory, and I have to agree with discojoe that your emotional reactions to arguments seem, if not always blatantly obvious, at least "there."

And, anyone who gets hard on a babysitter putting them in time out is obviously a Victim...DUH

lol, I see where you're coming from. One thing to keep in mind is that preconceptions can and do guide behavior, and I am most likely guilty of exaggerating certain things a bit. Anyway...

make of this what you will

strrrng (10:29:46 PM): "The Ego block also describes the most natural and common states of mind and behavior styles " >>somehow this just makes me think of my exercise regime, the structured aspect of it
strrrng (10:30:04 PM): how effortless that was
NiffweedXVII (10:30:52 PM): yeah i
NiffweedXVII (10:30:58 PM): definitely could see sort of where your
NiffweedXVII (10:31:04 PM): natural mode of being lies in Ti + Se
strrrng (10:31:20 PM): yea
strrrng (10:31:21 PM): like
strrrng (10:31:23 PM): the um
strrrng (10:31:45 PM): natural state of INxp's, which I think I've come to grasp well, seems sort of like something where I'd feel out of control
strrrng (10:32:15 PM): like u just seem sort of comfortable and indifferent about your natural state
strrrng (10:32:18 PM): whereas um
strrrng (10:32:32 PM): I'll take more notice of it if I'm in a state like that
NiffweedXVII (10:32:55 PM): and what is your response to being in a state like that?
strrrng (10:33:02 PM): it's like um
strrrng (10:34:01 PM): I can rationalize it but I always want some internal feeling of control...I may even be self-critical (i.e. I "should" be exercising)...and sort of look for some Ti guiding principle to have as support
NiffweedXVII (10:34:30 PM): right
strrrng (10:35:06 PM): whereas even an IEI with a developed Ti function still I think would feel more at ease in that state...or less self-conscious
NiffweedXVII (10:36:20 PM): right

I also noticed more contrasts between myself and my mom, specifically, how I am much more confident in my own logical/systematic understanding of things that she is. Obviously, super-id functions can be developed to a decent degree, but I really doubt an IEI would be as naturally critical and arrogant about Ti things with a former ethical type. And the shit I say to her in arguments makes sense (oddly, my ENFp brother always seems to get it, partially b/c he's an outsider, and maybe also because he has learned an appreciation for my style), and I take it very seriously, which would make sense for a base function, whereas she sort of picks and chooses what to accept. I could never see myself doing this (obviously Ti dual seeking is different than Ti HA, but still); I always notice logical flaws in my own understanding and sort of depend on them being right for a sense of well-being.

I'm starting a type blog lol

[Expat]

To me, you seem like a Beta version of Carla. By that I mean that I find it easy to see her as an Alpha, less easy to spot the precise type. In your case, the most obvious thing is being Beta.

I saw no big reason to question your typing as INFp, although, as it had been already noticed by more than one person, you seemed more into Ti and Se than might be expected, so ISTj made sense. Yet, as discojoe already pointed out, in that case you seemed to go for Fe too blatantly.

A possible way of more or less accounting for all of this would be ESTp; but then the question rises as to why an ESTp would think he was INFp. *shrugs*

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Well, after having a discussion with him recently, i'm pretty sure he's Beta, comes across as introvert with emotive reasoning, weak T, so that leaves INFp for him.

[Ezra]

all four of them make some amount of sense.

Yes, but IEI makes most sense.

[strrrng]

To me, you seem like a Beta version of Carla. By that I mean that I find it easy to see her as an Alpha, less easy to spot the precise type. In your case, the most obvious thing is being Beta.

I saw no big reason to question your typing as INFp, although, as it had been already noticed by more than one person, you seemed more into Ti and Se than might be expected, so ISTj made sense. Yet, as discojoe already pointed out, in that case you seemed to go for Fe too blatantly.

A possible way of more or less accounting for all of this would be ESTp; but then the question rises as to why an ESTp would think he was INFp. *shrugs*

Makes sense. And I never really identified with Se base; it's just too outwardly active for me. Plus, my typing of 4w5 always seemed to make sense, which doesn't go well with ISTj, lol.

Well, after having a discussion with him recently, i'm pretty sure he's Beta, comes across as introvert with emotive reasoning, weak T, so that leaves INFp for him.

Well, of course you say that lol.

[strrrng]

I remember this one time with this girl I liked (and who liked me), we would talk in school, etc. But I was also kind of paranoid about how she felt about this other guy who supposedly liked her as well. Sometimes on aim if I sent a message and she didn't respond in what I thought was an appropriate time frame, I would get sort of paranoid about the status of our relationship and start developing all these absurd hypotheses for why she wasn't answering. This is similar to the example I gave earlier about a more current relationship.

Would a type who is strong in Ni, Fe, Ne and Fi act like this? Wouldn't they be more confident in their assessment of the status of the relationship and the other person's motives to not get so offset by such trivial occurrences?

Insight plz

[Expat]

I remember this one time with this girl I liked (and who liked me),

That's already a sign of not-so-weak Fi (that is you state, as if with casual confidence that it is a fact that she liked you.)

By contrast, that is much more difficult for me: I tend to qualify it with "I think she liked me".

.

Would a type who is strong in Ni, Fe, Ne and Fi act like this? Wouldn't they be more confident in their assessment of the status of the relationship and the other person's motives to not get so offset by such trivial occurrences?

Well, you were confident enough to know that she liked you. So maybe : you were assessing it well; she was ambiguous about the other guy, and with good reason you wondered what was going on.

[strrrng]

That's already a sign of not-so-weak Fi (that is you state, as if with casual confidence that it is a fact that she liked you.)

By contrast, that is much more difficult for me: I tend to qualify it with "I think she liked me".

Not exactly. I mean, this is in retrospect, so it's obvious she liked me (ESTps aren't exactly subtle about expressing such things lol). I think my assessment of a relationship in a more incipient stage of development, or when I only had certain information to go on, would be more indicative of strong/weak Fi, rather than a recollection of something which cannot be doubted in any rational way.

Well, you were confident enough to know that she liked you. So maybe : you were assessing it well; she was ambiguous about the other guy, and with good reason you wondered what was going on.

That's the thing, though - I wasn't confident about whether she liked me or not at the time. If I observed her even talking to the other guy, I would get all offset and not know what was going on. It was very absolute, and I felt sort of vulnerable at assessing our relationship status without complete clarity and directness from her.

Her ambiguity was probably more of an Se power play (weak Fe as well...trying to garner more attention) than anything else, which is kind of annoying lol. Stupid attention whore.

[strrrng]

Victim mentality imo. I can relate to similar things like, like: "why didn't he text me today?! omg, why is he acting differently?" you know, feeling paranoid, never quite knowing, always wondering and doubting.

Possibly.

[Wittmont]

Victim mentality imo. I can relate to similar things like, like: "why didn't he text me today?! omg, why is he acting differently?" you know, feeling paranoid, never quite knowing, always wondering and doubting.

I don't know. I've been in Strrng's position and I read the situation correctly even if I tried to pretend I wasn't. Still to this day I sometimes hate it if someone doesn't answer as I feel they should, but I try to be more relaxed about it. Still it's upsetting at times as I can feel ignored or slighted. Guess I am simply senstitive in that way. But I hate it if there are 'different' rules for behaviour between what I see as acceptable (and what I live after) and the exptected behaviour of others towards me (I expect the same towards me as I try to show towards them).

[Gilly]

Sometimes on aim if I sent a message and she didn't respond in what I thought was an appropriate time frame, I would get sort of paranoid about the status of our relationship and start developing all these absurd hypotheses for why she wasn't answering.

AHAHAHAH I do this same exact shit man. I used to get paranoid as fuck with my last serious girlfriend would IM me and I would try to talk to her and she wouldn't respond for a minute...I would always feel like "wtf am I not good enough to hold your attention so you have to fold laundry and answer your e-mail and shit like IMing your bf is just some task you do while you're sitting around with no homework?"

*sigh*

[strrrng]

AHAHAHAH I do this same exact shit man. I used to get paranoid as fuck with my last serious girlfriend would IM me and I would try to talk to her and she wouldn't respond for a minute...I would always feel like "wtf am I not good enough to hold your attention so you have to fold laundry and answer your e-mail and shit like IMing your bf is just some task you do while you're sitting around with no homework?"

*sigh*

Yeah, probably also some identity triad shit involved as well (idealism, worthlessness).

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Gilly]

Well the thing is, I was confident in our relationship...like I didn't think she was cheating on me, and I knew she found me interesting and physically attractive...I just didn't like the idea that she didn't give me her full attention when I asked for it, because it made it feel like she didn't take me seriously.

[strrrng]

According to a few, I'm too confident to be a 4.

Couldn't a 4 just put up a facade?

Also, I'm apparently too definite/logical with my ideas and too combative/proactive to be an INFp or a 4.


Somebody show my the light...

[dbmmama]

According to a few, I'm too confident to be a 4.

Couldn't a 4 just put up a facade?

Also, I'm apparently too definite/logical with my ideas and too combative/proactive to be an INFp or a 4.


Somebody show my the light...

Fi is my thought. you don't preserve "mood and atmosphere," you state your beliefs/values very vehemently.

[strrrng]

Fi is my thought. you don't preserve "mood and atmosphere," you state your beliefs/values very vehemently.

Nah, I love Fe, lol. Most of the time when I say something with an intense undertone, it's in an attempt to stir up the Fe atmosphere (with Se, obviously).

[dbmmama]

Nah, I love Fe, lol. Most of the time when I say something with an intense undertone, it's in an attempt to stir up the Fe atmosphere (with Se, obviously).

i'm not convinced that that is what it is.

[dbmmama]

Nah, I love Fe, lol. Most of the time when I say something with an intense undertone, it's in an attempt to stir up the Fe atmosphere (with Se, obviously).

stirring up the atmosphere is different than preserving it.

[Satan]

I remember this one time with this girl I liked (and who liked me), we would talk in school, etc. But I was also kind of paranoid about how she felt about this other guy who supposedly liked her as well. Sometimes on aim if I sent a message and she didn't respond in what I thought was an appropriate time frame, I would get sort of paranoid about the status of our relationship and start developing all these absurd hypotheses for why she wasn't answering. This is similar to the example I gave earlier about a more current relationship.

Would a type who is strong in Ni, Fe, Ne and Fi act like this? Wouldn't they be more confident in their assessment of the status of the relationship and the other person's motives to not get so offset by such trivial occurrences?

Insight plz

You could have asked her to stop talking to the other guy.

[Satan]

According to a few, I'm too confident to be a 4.

Couldn't a 4 just put up a facade?

Also, I'm apparently too definite/logical with my ideas and too combative/proactive to be an INFp or a 4.


Somebody show my the light...

4s always put up facades.

[strrrng]

stirring up the atmosphere is different than preserving it.

Well, I think the Ti/Fe preference should be clear from the content/tone of my posts. There's no way I'm gamma or delta (and def not alpha either) lol.

[aestrivex]

i'm not convinced that that is what it is.

i'm not convinced that you have a clue what you're talking about.

[strrrng]

Extroverted sensing includes the ability to know how much power, force, or influence is latent or required.

Like when I feel a complete awareness of my physical presence when engaging in sports and notice how a specific type of movement results, and inherently feel the way in which I am moving, seeing the internal and external leverage and manipulating it effectively...

Take martial arts--at what angle is the arc of the fist coming towards your face? How do I mobilize the force of my body to deflect and/or immobilize the threat?

Well, I'll be GOT-DAMNED. This is exactly what I was referring to - noticing the subtle details behind a given movement. This is effortless for me; once I learn a movement, it becomes second nature. When I step back and think about throwing a given combination, it seems complex in principle, but when I do it, it feels pure and improvisational; I just know what to do. Oh, and in terms of getting caught up in the moment and reacting fluidly in sparring, that's a given. I love that shit: you feel your opponent's punch connect with your face, take note of his position, leverage yourself, strike, connect; it's heaven-like, lol.

[strrrng]

The individual is generally lacking in strong, immediate desires that would be able to drive his day-to-day actions and provide the motivation to overcome the petty obstacles in life. He seems to live in a state of permanent doubt and indecision, broken only by brief periods where external factors leave no choice but to take action.

*cough*

yeah fuckin right. lacking in willpower? indecision? the fuck...if this is Se dual seeking, there's no way I'm an IEI. I implement my will whenever and wherever I feel like it, lol, with or without help.

[dbmmama]

i'm not convinced that you have a clue what you're talking about.

yeah, i haven't claimed i really know...i'm in the process of figuring it out.

and lol@ your attempts to make me feel incompetent and/or stupid. Why do i not care what you say? hmmm interesting.... you're cute.

[unefille]

Like when I feel a complete awareness of my physical presence when engaging in sports and notice how a specific type of movement results, and inherently feel the way in which I am moving, seeing the internal and external leverage and manipulating it effectively...

Well, I'll be GOT-DAMNED. This is exactly what I was referring to - noticing the subtle details behind a given movement. This is effortless for me; once I learn a movement, it becomes second nature. When I step back and think about throwing a given combination, it seems complex in principle, but when I do it, it feels pure and improvisational; I just know what to do. Oh, and in terms of getting caught up in the moment and reacting fluidly in sparring, that's a given. I love that shit: you feel your opponent's punch connect with your face, take note of his position, leverage yourself, strike, connect; it's heaven-like, lol.

You definitely have much stonger than I do. Is that normal for an IEI? Back when I still did karate, I had no problems learning katas effortlessly in practice; it was in sparring that I faltered. I was not afraid of combat as I was terrified I wouldn't know how to respond - that I wouldn't have the time to think and arrange my moves. In a sense, I didn't trust my instincts. When I did spar, I often faired better than I thought I would - but a lot of that was mostly 'omg, how did I DO THAT? How the hell...hopefully it works out next time too!' -- I never had a sense of control over my reactions and I could never just relax - I could either do (and be lucky or unlucky) or think and be paralysed.