ME

[Christy B]

I didn't really care about having a group of friends for security or validation (probably more so/6 related), but rather, it was fun, plus we were better than them And that's how I want my groups of friends to be - aristocratic, definite and unconcerned with others, generally speaking. Beta elitism ftw!!

But if you're comparing yourself to others, then you're not unconcerned with them. Or did you mean that some other way?

I got from this that he is comparing to his own internal idea (he thinks he is different/better than them for various reasons), and unconcerned with other's perceptions of him/his group of friends.

You do make a good point here, that if he is unconcerned with others then what is he comparing his internal idea to? I think that points to identity issues of 4 and holding onto an idea of a self, feeling seperated from "others" and different and somehow special.

Makes no sense cause it is a fixation, skewed perception of reality, but still how the 4 sees the world.


Edit: strrrng's post explains what he really meant. I wrote this a few hours ago, and didn't post until now.. didn't see it at first....

[strrrng]

I got from this that he is comparing to his own internal idea (he thinks he is different/better than them for various reasons), and unconcerned with other's perceptions of him/his group of friends.

Correct. I have these internal ideals about specific traits, which I would project onto my own group, and try to mirror the absence of in other people. And if I saw that trait in someone, I would want to interact with them, because doing so would fuel my own internal self-image by receiving input of that trait in reality. It is derived from, in my opinion, feeling inherently defective, and thus compensating with unnecessary ideals and self-aggrandizing.

You do make a good point here, that if he is unconcerned with others then what is he comparing his internal idea to? I think that points to identity issues of 4 and holding onto an idea of a self, feeling seperated from "others" and different and somehow special.

Right, the point is I do care - about maintaining my own special identity. Thus I project my insecurities outward to facilitate this process.

Makes no sense cause it is a fixation, skewed perception of reality, but still how the 4 sees the world.

Yeah, other people probably wouldn't care enough to waste so much time on internal self-talk and comparisons. I think it points to identity triad and an underlying feeling of shame/worthlessness.

[Ezra]

I think most American males would say/think that Se dual-seeking, or any weak Se type for that matter, sounds like a "pussy." That doesn't change their types.

It probably doesn't just apply to American males, either. It'll be attached to the masculine ideal, which males from any culture will attempt to imitate if they feel insecure in their own character. Of course, everyone attempting to imitate Beta ST is ridiculous, because 50% of the world's population is not Beta ST, and no matter how hard they try, they will look nothing like Beta ST even if they wanted to.

In short, we need more males like you guys, Gilly and Nick. People who accept who they are, and with grace, and who realise their innate strengths without the aid of some tough guy image that so many males attempt to demonstrate, and who show themselves up to be idiots in the process.

I definitely still relate to you, lol, especially in terms of what I see of you on the forum. You remind me of an extreme version of myself, what I always kind of thought about acting like but knew that it was not really going to get me anywhere. You say the kinds of things that I think, and then realize that they're overgeneralized, so I keep them to myself

Yeah, it's clearly a case of quadra similarities.

[Rubicon]

yeah but constantly nagging and pushing other people to do something is shitty for both you and the person. i think that's basically what his point was. if his dad didn't want to do it, he should've just said no. his dad agreed beforehand to stay on track and then didn't. i know personally that when i mess around when i should be doing something, there's no motivation and i don't want to do it. so maybe strrrngs dad should reassess what his priorities and desires are. if he doesn't want to exercise, why doesn't he just say it instead of halfheartly going along? that's the worst imo. that's why doing things alone is so fucking cool.

Because it's unrealistic to assume that a person's level of passion is going to match your own. We would get very few things done if we all had an "all or nothing" approach. Is there some sort of scale? "Love" on the one end, "hate" on the other ... and whichever one you're leaning towards you must embrace with totality - regardless of whether your feelings are that black and white? Often your mind tells you that something would be good to do, but your heart isn't in it ... so you go along half-heartedly. But just giving up totally because you're not enveloped with a fiery passion for what you're doing would be stupid. You can't work up strong desires out of thin air.

[Steve]

Because it's unrealistic to assume that a person's level of passion is going to match your own. We would get very few things done if we all had an "all or nothing" approach. Is there some sort of scale? "Love" on the one end, "hate" on the other ... and whichever one you're leaning towards you must embrace with totality - regardless of whether your feelings are that black and white? Often your mind tells you that something would be good to do, but your heart isn't in it ... so you go along half-heartedly. But just giving up totally because you're not enveloped with a fiery passion for what you're doing would be stupid. You can't work up strong desires out of thin air.

Good points.

[strrrng]

Because it's unrealistic to assume that a person's level of passion is going to match your own.

If a person says they are going to do something ahead of time, they should do it. Period. I don't give a fuck if they decide on some whim halfway through that their "heart" isn't into it (how quaint); they said they were going to do it.

We would get very few things done if we all had an "all or nothing" approach. Is there some sort of scale?

This isn't even relevant to the situation I described, not to mention being annoying as fuck. You say we wouldn't get things done with an all-or-nothing attitude. How much do you think we would get done if we just did whatever our "hearts" were telling us at the moment? Shit - that's how much.

"Love" on the one end, "hate" on the other ... and whichever one you're leaning towards you must embrace with totality - regardless of whether your feelings are that black and white?

Who the fuck said anything about absolute morality. We're talking about concrete decisions, not inner values, so your comparison is null and void.

Often your mind tells you that something would be good to do, but your heart isn't in it ... so you go along half-heartedly.

Yes, this is true, but guess what? If you make a commitment to something ahead of time, it is your responsibility to uphold it. Whether or not you felt strongly about it is completely irrelevant; using feelings as an excuse is just a cop-out to be lazy and quit. If you tell me you want to run to the weight room with me, you better not fucking stop to look at ducks, because that is not how things work. If you decided to run on a whim for fun, and then wanted to look at ducks, that would be different. That, however, is not the case here.

But just giving up totally because you're not enveloped with a fiery passion for what you're doing would be stupid. You can't work up strong desires out of thin air.

Don't do something if you're not going to follow through - simple as that. If you really want something, your passions should be in it, and you should be willing to do whatever it takes. Only the weak and faint-hearted make premature commitments that they renege on because they cannot endure. And no, you can't force passion, but not everything can be done according to peoples' personal feelings. It shows quite a bit of fortitude to persevere through something you dislike.

I've had enough of this attitude from alphas and deltas in my life. It is not about freedom or peoples' petty feelings; it is about discipline, struggle and survival. If you can't hang, get the fuck out. This is reality, and things are difficult, and they don't accord with personal ideals and feelings most of the time. But that doesn't matter. When it is all said and done, the strong humans will surmount these petty obstacles and reign supreme, while the crybabies who want their feelings taken care of will evaporate into the nothingness where they belong.

[Steve]

If you tell me you want to run to the weight room with me, you better not fucking stop to look at ducks, because that is not how things work. If you decided to run on a whim for fun, and then wanted to look at ducks, that would be different. That, however, is not the case here.

Fair point.

[Satan]

Because it's unrealistic to assume that a person's level of passion is going to match your own. We would get very few things done if we all had an "all or nothing" approach. Is there some sort of scale? "Love" on the one end, "hate" on the

MOST PEOPLE GET NOTHING DONE, WHEN THEY DECIDE TO GO FOR MODERATION THEY CUT THEMSELVES OFF BEFORE THEY START.

AND LOVE AND HATE ARE INTERTWINED. INVESTMENT AND INDIFFERENCE ARE OPPOSING POLES. LOVE AND HATE .. ARE ONLY SLIGHTLY APART FROM EACH OTHER.

other ... and whichever one you're leaning towards you must embrace with totality - regardless of whether your feelings are that black and white? Often your mind tells you

IF YOU'RE FEELINGS AREN'T BLACK AND WHITE THEN THEY AREN'T FEELINGS. THEY'RE "IDEAS" AND IDEAS KILL PEOPLE. ****** STARTING WORLD WAR TWO WAS AN "IDEA". IT WASN'T EVEN HIS IDEA.

that something would be good to do, but your heart isn't in it ... so you go along half-heartedly. But just giving up totally because you're not enveloped with a fiery passion for what you're doing would be stupid. You can't work up strong desires out of thin air.

MY MIND TELLS ME TRUTHS. I DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW WHAT TO *DO* WITH THE TRUTHS. BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE A "THAT'D BE SOMETHING GOOD TO DO" .. THAT'S AN IDEA. THAT'S NOT THE MIND. IDEAS COME FROM ATTACHMENT. ATTACHMENT COMES FROM ... YOU GUESSED IT THE HEART ..

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A FIERY PASSION YOU CAN'T FAKE IT. JUST GIVE UP.

AND STRONG DESIRES DO COME OUT OF THIN AIR. THEY COME OUT OF NOT HOLDING BACK FEELINGS.

THICK AIR CAN SUPPRES DESIRES IN SOME FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME.

[Satan]

Good points.

DON'T BUY IN. IT'S A WEAK INVESTMENT.

[Satan]

I got from this that he is comparing to his own internal idea (he thinks he is different/better than them for various reasons), and unconcerned with other's perceptions of him/his group of friends.

HE'S A BLOODY FOUR.

You do make a good point here, that if he is unconcerned with others then what is he comparing his internal idea to? I think that points to identity issues of 4 and holding onto an idea of a self, feeling seperated from "others" and different and somehow special.

HE *IS* CONCERNED WITH OTHERS. OTHERWISE HE WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT THIS.

Makes no sense cause it is a fixation, skewed perception of reality, but still how the 4 sees the world.


Edit: strrrng's post explains what he really meant. I wrote this a few hours ago, and didn't post until now.. didn't see it at first....

I DIDN'T READ HIS POST EITHER. LET'S JUST MAKE SNAP JUDGEMENTS BABY. YOU AND ME...

[Gilly]

lmfao

[Lotus]

MOST PEOPLE GET NOTHING DONE, WHEN THEY DECIDE TO GO FOR MODERATION THEY CUT THEMSELVES OFF BEFORE THEY START.

AND LOVE AND HATE ARE INTERTWINED. INVESTMENT AND INDIFFERENCE ARE OPPOSING POLES. LOVE AND HATE .. ARE ONLY SLIGHTLY APART FROM EACH OTHER.



IF YOU'RE FEELINGS AREN'T BLACK AND WHITE THEN THEY AREN'T FEELINGS. THEY'RE "IDEAS" AND IDEAS KILL PEOPLE. ****** STARTING WORLD WAR TWO WAS AN "IDEA". IT WASN'T EVEN HIS IDEA.



MY MIND TELLS ME TRUTHS. I DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW WHAT TO *DO* WITH THE TRUTHS. BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE A "THAT'D BE SOMETHING GOOD TO DO" .. THAT'S AN IDEA. THAT'S NOT THE MIND. IDEAS COME FROM ATTACHMENT. ATTACHMENT COMES FROM ... YOU GUESSED IT THE HEART ..

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A FIERY PASSION YOU CAN'T FAKE IT. JUST GIVE UP.

AND STRONG DESIRES DO COME OUT OF THIN AIR. THEY COME OUT OF NOT HOLDING BACK FEELINGS.

THICK AIR CAN SUPPRES DESIRES IN SOME FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME.

<3

[Gilly]

Sometimes he really fucking hits the nail on the head, doesn't he?

I particularly like the part about investment and indifference being the "real" opposites. My theory of life is all about polarities, lol...

[Christy B]

HE'S A BLOODY FOUR.



HE *IS* CONCERNED WITH OTHERS. OTHERWISE HE WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT THIS.



I DIDN'T READ HIS POST EITHER. LET'S JUST MAKE SNAP JUDGEMENTS BABY. YOU AND ME...

lol I was defending his fourness with that post hahaha.

[Satan]

lol I was defending his fourness with that post hahaha.

Well maybe you should be clear.

[Christy B]

Well maybe you should be clear.

I was clear. He knew what I meant.. and said so.. see ^

Edit: your boobs are distracting me again...I was making a point and then.. cant remeber now hmmm

[strrrng]

I DIDN'T READ HIS POST EITHER. LET'S JUST MAKE SNAP JUDGEMENTS BABY. YOU AND ME...

Christy's post was anything but a snap judgment. Her insight doesn't depend on the timing of each of our posts. That situation was just a matter of me reiterating what she already had proposed.

[Rubicon]

If a person says they are going to do something ahead of time, they should do it. Period. I don't give a fuck if they decide on some whim halfway through that their "heart" isn't into it (how quaint); they said they were going to do it.

I agree with that, and I think it unwise to pair up duck-watchers with non-duck-watchers for efficiency’s sake … so that wasn’t my issue. Your dad agreed to go running with you. So he did. Did he sign a contract beforehand saying he wouldn’t look at ducks? Are you an army commander?

This isn't even relevant to the situation I described, not to mention being annoying as fuck. You say we wouldn't get things done with an all-or-nothing attitude. How much do you think we would get done if we just did whatever our "hearts" were telling us at the moment? Shit - that's how much.

I think there should be a balance though. There’s something to keeping your rules and schedules flexible so that you can take an opportunity when you see it. So if I’m on track, headed towards my goal and I see some ducks worth looking at, then what’s the harm in stopping and having a look, then getting back on track? I’ll still reach my destination at the end of the day, but with some duck-viewing experiences under my belt. Or maybe I’ll see another track that looks better than the one I’m on, so w00t - I'll take it. What would I have to gain by sticking to my original track like a blinkered horse? Sure – there are some situations when veering to look at ducks would be unthinkable, but really – put things in a little perspective. You’re talking about a personal fitness regime, not a mission to save an endangered species from extinction.

Who the fuck said anything about absolute morality. We're talking about concrete decisions, not inner values, so your comparison is null and void.

I think it’s stupid to set your decisions in concrete. You’re taking decisions that you made at one point in time, and making them master over you. Your own lousy decisions. Better to let your heart/mind be the master of the situation at all times rather than just at the point of decision-making. You think that sticking to your decisions is a mark of character? Sometimes maybe, but I think a lot of times it just shows weakness of mind. You can’t trust yourself to act rationally and responsibly in the moment, so you have to lock down your mind and not let yourself think and weigh opportunities as they arise.

Don't do something if you're not going to follow through - simple as that. If you really want something, your passions should be in it, and you should be willing to do whatever it takes. Only the weak and faint-hearted make premature commitments that they renege on because they cannot endure. And no, you can't force passion, but not everything can be done according to peoples' personal feelings. It shows quite a bit of fortitude to persevere through something you dislike.

I agree that you should stick by your word if you’ve promised others something, but really – aren’t you getting a little dramatic? It just all sounds rather amusing. Why don’t you just say to your dad – “Look, I can’t run with you if you’re going to be distracted” ... rather than just standing there seething. So you’re two different people with different mindsets. Different passions. So accept that and be prepared to give-and-take, or don’t team up in the first place.

I've had enough of this attitude from alphas and deltas in my life. It is not about freedom or peoples' petty feelings; it is about discipline, struggle and survival. If you can't hang, get the fuck out. This is reality, and things are difficult, and they don't accord with personal ideals and feelings most of the time. But that doesn't matter. When it is all said and done, the strong humans will surmount these petty obstacles and reign supreme, while the crybabies who want their feelings taken care of will evaporate into the nothingness where they belong.

That’s your reality. Not everyone else’s. Thank God it’s not mine. What a life. Struggle and survival. That sounds awesome. To each his own. I’d rather not go through life with my head down, my mind on autopilot, ignoring what’s going on around me for fear that something will attract my attention, distracting me from some self-appointed goal that supposedly outshines all else that life has to offer. And who are you kidding really? You get your kicks out of "struggling" and so forth. That's why you do it. So who are you to put this modus operandi on a pedestal as the best way of going about things ... when it's just about how you get your personal sense of fulfillment? To each his own. Obviously, this is mostly about differences in quadra values, so we're not going to agree. But we should agree that what's right for one person could be completely wrong for another. To me, a life devoted to overcoming obstacles with a view to reigning supreme would be an empty one indeed ... so I'll live my life in a way that's fulfilling to me, not some other random person. If a life that leaves room for spontaneous duck-sightings is one from which I derive fulfillment, then I'm going to embrace that life. And concerning feelings - there’s a difference between following every whim and fancy that the wind blows your way and analysing your feelings with intelligence. Listening to what they have to say rather than automatically suppressing them like a brainless ogre. I would have thought that you'd attach more importance to your feelings being an IEI and all.

What's the point of "getting something done" if you don't actually want to do it? What's the point? What's the point of going along with someone when it conflicts with your interests? Seriously. It's not about being a selfish person, it's about choosing the people out there who do actually share your perspectives and goals and motivations. What's the point of a friend if you don't share those things? Why keep on clinging to the same superficial interaction day after day after day, when all you really wanted to do was find someone who actually wanted to be around you, who wanted something real, not just a desire to go through the motions? Isn't there something you want passionately to accomplish for yourself? Don't you have any dreams? Any goals? Then why the hell are you letting yourself be dragged around by someone who doesn't share your desires or interests? Why wouldn't you tell them straight out you don't desire what they're pushing? Are you chained to pleasing them? Do you get something from being all sacrificial, "I'm the better person because I'm giving up what I'd rather be doing"?

I agree.

Yes, there is a scale, actually. There's absolutely a scale. Life is not about forcing yourself to be around others you don't like, to do what you don't want. Do you think anyone actually cares that you're being such a matyr? No, they don't. The world fucking goes on. This planet has billions of people, most of whom don't give a fuck what you do or don't do. So it's up to you to take what you need, to earn your dreams. Jesus. If you're a bleeding heart who's "torn" between what you want and what others want, than I guess the only solution is to find someone similar to yourself.

Agree.

No. You are responsible for yourself. It's nobody else's fault that you're on some emotional continuum, unable to pinpoint what you really want in life. What's the use of life if you fucking flow through it halfheartedly? Do what the fuck you want, but if you can't find someone to share your common goal, than do it the fuck alone.

Agree.

Why? You mean you can't find anything else that you'd rather be doing? Do what you fucking want. Nobody is going to thank you for going so utterly against yourself. Nobody really cares. God is not going to give you a rainbow ribbon at the end of your life with a "Well done thou faithful servant, you have toiled and utterly hated your life. You've spent the years deferring to others, while never really examining what you wanted in life. After all, nobody is more important than others. They don't give a damn, my servant, but I certainly do." No, sorry, he's not.

Yo.

No, you can't. They have to come from somewhere. If they're not there, go fucking find them already, because going on thin air is fucking useless.

You’re being needlessly dramatic, and that’s not taking into account all the ‘fucks’. I was making a point about how not everything you do in life is going to be some big passion. Should your main goals be passion-driven? Absolutely. I agree 100 %. I was merely making the point that there are some things that most of us do just because we know it’s good to do. Like exercise. Some (like Nick I assume) have a passion for exercise. Others just think that it’s something that they should probably do for their overall wellbeing. So if they want to do it half-heartedly – well why not? It’s better than doing no exercise. What’s the point in pretending that you’ve got purple aliens on your tail when you don’t? Oh hello – I’m Jem, and I run sometimes when I feel in the mood, because it’s good for me. No, I don’t want to tie myself down to a schedule. Yes, I will probably stop to look at ducks if I see some because I find them cute. No, I don’t have a passion for running. Yes, sometimes running feels good. Today I think I should run, but I’m tired so I’ll just do a short run. Ooh – today I feel like running a marathon so I’m going to! My feelings work for me, not against me. Common sense IMO.

[Rubicon]

MOST PEOPLE GET NOTHING DONE, WHEN THEY DECIDE TO GO FOR MODERATION THEY CUT THEMSELVES OFF BEFORE THEY START.

AND LOVE AND HATE ARE INTERTWINED. INVESTMENT AND INDIFFERENCE ARE OPPOSING POLES. LOVE AND HATE .. ARE ONLY SLIGHTLY APART FROM EACH OTHER.

I DON'T AGREE.

IF YOU'RE FEELINGS AREN'T BLACK AND WHITE THEN THEY AREN'T FEELINGS.

WRONG.

MY MIND TELLS ME TRUTHS. I DON'T NECESSARILY KNOW WHAT TO *DO* WITH THE TRUTHS. BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY HAVE A "THAT'D BE SOMETHING GOOD TO DO" .. THAT'S AN IDEA. THAT'S NOT THE MIND. IDEAS COME FROM ATTACHMENT. ATTACHMENT COMES FROM ... YOU GUESSED IT THE HEART ..

WISHY-WASHY WISHY-WASHY ... WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A FIERY PASSION YOU CAN'T FAKE IT. JUST GIVE UP.

DUMB ADVICE.

AND STRONG DESIRES DO COME OUT OF THIN AIR. THEY COME OUT OF NOT HOLDING BACK FEELINGS.

THEN THEY HAVEN'T COME OUT OF THIN AIR.

THICK AIR CAN SUPPRES DESIRES IN SOME FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME.

INTERESTING. INTERESTING.

[strrrng]

I agree with that, and I think it unwise to pair up duck-watchers with non-duck-watchers for efficiency’s sake … so that wasn’t my issue. Your dad agreed to go running with you. So he did. Did he sign a contract beforehand saying he wouldn’t look at ducks? Are you an army commander?

It's not just about efficiency; it's reality. Stop being such an alpha-pussy and realize that we can't always wander along in Si land, having picnics and enjoying the outdoors. I don't have to be a motherfucking army commander for him to listen. He said he would, and so he would. People with your attitude disgust me; you think you can do whatever you want, as if your petty whims trump any form of reason or structure. Think what the world would be like if everyone was as insouciant as you; we would have died long ago. And that is exactly what should happen to weak-minded folks - extermination.

I think there should be a balance though. There’s something to keeping your rules and schedules flexible so that you can take an opportunity when you see it.

Ah, balance lol. What a 9.

So if I’m on track, headed towards my goal and I see some ducks worth looking at, then what’s the harm in stopping and having a look, then getting back on track? I’ll still reach my destination at the end of the day, but with some duck-viewing experiences under my belt. Or maybe I’ll see another track that looks better than the one I’m on, so w00t - I'll take it. What would I have to gain by sticking to my original track like a blinkered horse? Sure – there are some situations when veering to look at ducks would be unthinkable, but really – put things in a little perspective. You’re talking about a personal fitness regime, not a mission to save an endangered species from extinction

That's bullshit. And stop making it trivial just because I wasn't in a war situation; it's the principle that stands behind it. Yeah sure, watch your fucking ducks, and hey, maybe order a pizza and sit by the lake and sing. You'll still accomplish your goal at the end. But everyone else will have accomplished theirs ahead of you, because they didn't waste time like incompetent fools doing nothing, and you will be the failure of the group, hence extinction. If you have a goal, do it. Look at the ducks another time. God, this post just reeks of alpha Si and 9'ness.

I think it’s stupid to set your decisions in concrete. You’re taking decisions that you made at one point in time, and making them master over you. Your own lousy decisions. Better to let your heart/mind be the master of the situation at all times rather than just at the point of decision-making. You think that sticking to your decisions is a mark of character? Sometimes maybe, but I think a lot of times it just shows weakness of mind. You can’t trust yourself to act rationally and responsibly in the moment, so you have to lock down your mind and not let yourself think and weigh opportunities as they arise.

haha, nice rationalization. This is the cry of the weak ones. What is the point of responding here? You are obviously not of the capacity of true will, only responding at a moment's desire like a silly animal or a child lost in a dream.

I agree that you should stick by your word if you’ve promised others something, but really – aren’t you getting a little dramatic? It just all sounds rather amusing. Why don’t you just say to your dad – “Look, I can’t run with you if you’re going to be distracted” ... rather than just standing there seething. So you’re two different people with different mindsets. Different passions. So accept that and be prepared to give-and-take, or don’t team up in the first place.

Different passions? No. I have passion, I follow through. People like you just float by.

That’s your reality. Not everyone else’s. Thank God it’s not mine. What a life. Struggle and survival. That sounds awesome. To each his own. I’d rather not go through life with my head down, my mind on autopilot, ignoring what’s going on around me for fear that something will attract my attention, distracting me from some self-appointed goal that supposedly outshines all else that life has to offer. And who are you kidding really? You get your kicks out of "struggling" and so forth. That's why you do it. So who are you to put this modus operandi on a pedestal as the best way of going about things ... when it's just about how you get your personal sense of fulfillment? To each his own. Obviously, this is mostly about differences in quadra values, so we're not going to agree. But we should agree that what's right for one person could be completely wrong for another. To me, a life devoted to overcoming obstacles with a view to reigning supreme would be an empty one indeed ... so I'll live my life in a way that's fulfilling to me, not some other random person. If a life that leaves room for spontaneous duck-sightings is one from which I derive fulfillment, then I'm going to embrace that life. And concerning feelings - there’s a difference between following every whim and fancy that the wind blows your way and analysing your feelings with intelligence. Listening to what they have to say rather than automatically suppressing them like a brainless ogre. I would have thought that you'd attach more importance to your feelings being an IEI and all.

Yeah, that is cute.


This is how it is done

[Rubicon]

It's not just about efficiency; it's reality. Stop being such an alpha-pussy and realize that we can't always wander along in Si land, having picnics and enjoying the outdoors. I don't have to be a motherfucking army commander for him to listen. He said he would, and so he would. People with your attitude disgust me; you think you can do whatever you want, as if your petty whims trump any form of reason or structure. Think what the world would be like if everyone was as insouciant as you; we would have died long ago. And that is exactly what should happen to weak-minded folks - extermination.

Blah blah think what would happen if everyone were as narrow-minded as you.... So basically you can't give any reasons as to why the Beta way is indeed better. It's just about your personal feelings of disgust?

Ah, balance lol. What a 9.

w00t

That's bullshit. And stop making it trivial just because I wasn't in a war situation; it's the principle that stands behind it. Yeah sure, watch your fucking ducks, and hey, maybe order a pizza and sit by the lake and sing. You'll still accomplish your goal at the end. But everyone else will have accomplished theirs ahead of you, because they didn't waste time like incompetent fools doing nothing, and you will be the failure of the group, hence extinction. If you have a goal, do it. Look at the ducks another time. God, this post just reeks of alpha Si and 9'ness.

If the principle doesn't apply to the particular situation, why apply it? So you don't have to overly exert yourself mentally I guess. No exceptions! That would upset your carefully built-up systems of pseudo-morality. If the situation resembles a cake (even though it isn't a cake), better put it in the cake category. Just makes things easier to deal with.

haha, nice rationalization. This is the cry of the weak ones. What is the point of responding here? You are obviously not of the capacity of true will, only responding at a moment's desire like a silly animal or a child lost in a dream.

What is the point of responding here? You obviously aren't of the capacity of true spontaneity of thought, only able to forge ahead blindly down the path that's been mapped out for you.

This is how it is done

Have you considered EIE for yourself? :-P

[strrrng]

Blah blah think what would happen if everyone were as narrow-minded as you.... So basically you can't give any reasons as to why the Beta way is indeed better. It's just about your personal feelings of disgust?

I don't need to give reasons. My opinion pertains to this situation better. And yes, betas will reign supreme one day.

If the principle doesn't apply to the particular situation, why apply it? So you don't have to overly exert yourself mentally I guess. No exceptions! That would upset your carefully built-up systems of pseudo-morality. If the situation resembles a cake (even though it isn't a cake), better put it in the cake category. Just makes things easier to deal with.

That's correct. Structure leads to survival. Fuck personal feelings.

What is the point of responding here? You obviously aren't of the capacity of true spontaneity of thought, only able to forge ahead blindly down the path that's been mapped out for you.

I will still reign supreme, while the duck-watchers die off.

Have you considered EIE for yourself? :-P

I've considered every beta type in the past month, but I can't really see anything other than IEI at this point.

[Rubicon]

I've considered every beta type in the past month, but I can't really see anything other than IEI at this point.

I think you and Ezra are pretty similar in the way you present things and respond to arguments. Fwiw.

[strrrng]

I think you and Ezra are pretty similar in the way you present things and respond to arguments. Fwiw.

EZRA DID YOU HEAR THAT WE'RE IDENTICALS BAD ASS BETAS BUT WHAT TYPE ARE WE OK SE-ESTP 8W7 SX/SP FUCK IT

[strrrng]

i am unsure if even Ezra can live up to your penchant for explosive behavior.

boom the world exploded.

lol

[Satan]

i am unsure if even Ezra can live up to your penchant for explosive behavior.

boom the world exploded.

What's with the fucking pen chants ... Pens are for writing you baffoon.

[Satan]

i wanted to argue, but i was too busy trying to get away from those blasted ducks.

Kill them.

[Satan]

Blah blah think what would happen if everyone were as narrow-minded as you.... So basically you can't give any reasons as to why the Beta way is indeed better. It's just about your personal feelings of disgust?w00tIf the principle doesn't apply to the particular situation, why apply it? So you don't have to overly exert yourself mentally I guess. No exceptions! That would upset your carefully built-up systems of pseudo-morality. If the situation resembles a cake (even though it isn't a cake), better put it in the cake category. Just makes things easier to deal with.What is the point of responding here? You obviously aren't of the capacity of true spontaneity of thought, only able to forge ahead blindly down the path that's been mapped out for you. Have you considered EIE for yourself? :-P

I don't know why the hell it doesn't quote right.

Jem, Nick shouldn't have to give reasons to you. Personal feelings are relevant. And I like Nick more than I like you. And so what he says is always going to be more significant than what you say, to me.

That said, it seems like you're being difficult for no reason at all. You're trying to fight a battle that you cannot win. And you come across as disrespectful.

Now Nick is a nice guy, and he's been hearing you out. But I'm not such a nice guy, and you are definitely full of shit, and irrelevant.

[strrrng]

Don't be mean to her, merk. She's just a gentle alpha who prefers to follow her nonsensical whims wherever they take her, lol.

We must not expend energy on exterminating the weak race, as they will self-destruct inevitably.

[Satan]

Don't be mean to her, merk. She's just a gentle alpha who prefers to follow her nonsensical whims wherever they take her, lol.

We must not expend energy on exterminating the weak race, as they will self-destruct inevitably.

That's as much as I had planned to say. It's good to set people straight on where you stand with them.

[strrrng]

btw Jem, there is no way in fuck you are sx/sp - or any sx primary, for that matter. Hell no. Real sx's do not meander around and watch ducks when they're supposed to be exercising. It's about intensity, not petty fun. Don't taint us sx/sp's; we are not pansy nature lovers who bask in mindless sensory enjoyment.

Go hard or go home, mothafucka!

[Satan]

btw Jem, there is no way in fuck you are sx/sp - or any sx primary, for that matter. Hell no. Real sx's do not meander around and watch ducks when they're supposed to be exercising. It's about intensity, not petty fun. Don't taint us sx/sp's; we are not pansy nature lovers who bask in mindless sensory enjoyment.

Go hard or go home, mothafucka!

You're cute.

[Rubicon]

I don't know why the hell it doesn't quote right.

Jem, Nick shouldn't have to give reasons to you. Personal feelings are relevant. And I like Nick more than I like you. And so what he says is always going to be more significant than what you say, to me.

I believe Nick himself dismissed personal feelings/impressions as irrelevant in arguments. When you make sweeping statements that pretend to objectivity, then you should be able to prove them using objective evidence, not subjective impressions. If you can't, shutting up would be advisable. Unless of course you like being thought of as a moron.

That said, it seems like you're being difficult for no reason at all. You're trying to fight a battle that you cannot win. And you come across as disrespectful.

Probably because I'm not meaning to be respectful.

Now Nick is a nice guy, and he's been hearing you out. But I'm not such a nice guy, and you are definitely full of shit, and irrelevant.

nice guy lol

btw Jem, there is no way in fuck you are sx/sp - or any sx primary, for that matter. Hell no. Real sx's do not meander around and watch ducks when they're supposed to be exercising. It's about intensity, not petty fun. Don't taint us sx/sp's; we are not pansy nature lovers who bask in mindless sensory enjoyment.

Go hard or go home, mothafucka!

You'll have to give me better reasons than those idiotic ones.

[strrrng]

You'll have to give me better reasons than those idiotic ones.

No, I don't. I have never met as an sx/sp who was as carefree as you. Regardless of their socionics/enneagram type, they would never argue what you have in the past few pages: all this nonsense about being free to listen to your heart in the moment. sx/sp is about intensity, and is more inward focused; you seem too calm, complacent and laid-back to be sx/sp.


Oh yeah, I forgot, everyone is sx/sp because they're all so intense grrr and they live big lives.

[Rubicon]

No, I don't. I have never met as an sx/sp who was as carefree as you. Regardless of their socionics/enneagram type, they would never argue what you have in the past few pages: all this nonsense about being free to listen to your heart in the moment. sx/sp is about intensity, and is more inward focused; you seem too calm, complacent and laid-back to be sx/sp.


Oh yeah, I forgot, everyone is sx/sp because they're all so intense grrr and they live big lives.

If I was so 'carefree', I wouldn't have bothered pulling you up on your idiotic sentiments. Anyway, you told me that you'd never met an sx/sp SEI. So you don't know what they're like. Whatever. You're obviously unable to rise above your personal biases.

[strrrng]

If I was so 'carefree', I wouldn't have bothered pulling you up on your idiotic sentiments.

Oh yeah, you're so assertive and intense, you big bad duck watcher lol. Your "calling me out" on my "idiotic sentiments" didn't affect me in the least bit; it was merely a futile attempt to regain footing in an argument that had already eluded you. So, stop acting like you confronted me on something; you didn't do shit. Fucking lying ass UGH.

Anyway, you told me that you'd never met an sx/sp SEI. So you don't know what they're like.

This is retarded. I never said this. I believe I clearly told you that I thought dolphin was sx/sp (and at that time I thought she was ISFp). Regardless, I have met enough sx/sp's of various types and have enough knowledge about socionics to spot an ISFp sx/sp, regardless of whether I've actually encountered one (and there's a reason why I haven't lol...alpha duck watchers). You don't need to have observed every single thing to understand it; you can deduce patterns based off of general sets of data, and fit things into the puzzle based on other things. Maybe your Si needs every detail laid out for you or something, but I've found that I can connect new things based off of a given set of information, by mere reason and deduction.

You're obviously unable to rise above your personal biases.

And you obviously suck at arguments.

[Rubicon]

Oh yeah, you're so assertive and intense, you big bad duck watcher lol. Your "calling me out" on my "idiotic sentiments" didn't affect me in the least bit; it was merely a futile attempt to regain footing in an argument that had already eluded you. So, stop acting like you confronted me on something; you didn't do shit. Fucking lying ass UGH.

Surely you're socionically-educated enough to realise that an Si argument is going to sound rather tame to you regardless of it's intentions. Whether you were affected or not is irrelevant. I have no interest in simulating Se for your benefit. And don't project your motivations on to me. I responded because I found your statements disgusting - especially on a personality forum of all places where touting some types as somehow superior to others would be unacceptable if it wasn't ludicrous. You're making a mockery of socionics as an intelligent, objective theory. I wonder why you even want to find your type. It's just a label after all. Just use "Nick" as your four-letter symbol for greatness. And you already know who are the elite and who aren't worth the scum on your shoe ... so fuck - what's your obsession with the labels? Call everyone you despise Alphas and Deltas, the people you like Betas and throw the rest into Gamma. That's apparently how you type people. You're a disgrace to this forum.

This is retarded. I never said this. I believe I clearly told you that I thought dolphin was sx/sp (and at that time I thought she was ISFp).

Lol @ that reasoning. So she was SEI back then, but she isn't now? I hate to break it to you, but reality doesn't change with your impressions.

Regardless, I have met enough sx/sp's of various types and have enough knowledge about socionics to spot an ISFp sx/sp, regardless of whether I've actually encountered one (and there's a reason why I haven't lol...alpha duck watchers). You don't need to have observed every single thing to understand it; you can deduce patterns based off of general sets of data, and fit things into the puzzle based on other things. Maybe your Si needs every detail laid out for you or something, but I've found that I can connect new things based off of a given set of information, by mere reason and deduction.

This is utterly worthless information to me. Similar to how worthless my arguments appear to you. What do I care if you've swum the Atlantic with 50 sx/sps by your side? You could have typed them all wrong for all I know. And wow - we have something in common! I also use reason and deduction in making a decision! If you think that I should deduce that your opinion of my type is correct from your statements on your level of knowledge and expertise, you're stupider than I thought you were. You can continue to spew out your conclusions until you turn purple, but unless you present logical arguments with them, don't expect anyone other than idiots to accept them without question.

[strrrng]

Surely you're socionically-educated enough to realise that an Si argument is going to sound rather tame to you regardless of it's intentions. Whether you were affected or not is irrelevant. I have no interest in simulating Se for your benefit. And don't project your motivations on to me. I responded because I found your statements disgusting - especially on a personality forum of all places where touting some types as somehow superior to others would be unacceptable if it wasn't ludicrous. You're making a mockery of socionics as an intelligent, objective theory. I wonder why you even want to find your type. It's just a label after all. Just use "Nick" as your four-letter symbol for greatness. And you already know who are the elite and who aren't worth the scum on your shoe ... so fuck - what's your obsession with the labels? Call everyone you despise Alphas and Deltas, the people you like Betas and throw the rest into Gamma. That's apparently how you type people. You're a disgrace to this forum.

Well, would you look at that. The ISFp used some force for once. And I wasn't touting betas as better; I was just promoting my viewpoint with confidence. I found YOUR arguments disgusting and your attitude towards my and others' point of view absolutely ridiculous, so hey, we're even. And lol @ your opinion of my typing methods. I know who is what type, and not all pussies are alpha or delta. It just so happens that I like betas and gammas more; if you don't like my aristocratic attitude, suck a dick. Your opinion on my personality, character, etc. means shit to me. Now go back to your picnic and watch some ducks while the elites accomplish things

Lol @ that reasoning. So she was SEI back then, but she isn't now? I hate to break it to you, but reality doesn't change with your impressions.

I am not 100&#37; certain on her type, but the point was that I believed she was an sx/sp ISFp, which demonstrates how I never claimed that the combination was impossible. Stop skewing shit, you deluded clown.

This is utterly worthless information to me. Similar to how worthless my arguments appear to you. What do I care if you've swum the Atlantic with 50 sx/sps by your side? You could have typed them all wrong for all I know. And wow - we have something in common! I also use reason and deduction in making a decision! If you think that I should deduce that your opinion of my type is correct from your statements on your level of knowledge and expertise, you're stupider than I thought you were. You can continue to spew out your conclusions until you turn purple, but unless you present logical arguments with them, don't expect anyone other than idiots to accept them without question.

I never said you should think that I am correct. I have presented arguments for your instinct stacking in two threads now, based on impressions I have built up of the different types, and my observations of you (and you were quite agreeable in our pm conversation on the matter). No one is ordering you to obey the commands (although that might help); I could care less if you accept them or not. My opinion is and will remain that you are not sx/sp. If you want to type yourself that way to feed your ego, fine. Just remember that I actually understand the enneagram much more thoroughly than you, and thus will not be phased by your facile ideas on the subject.

Bye

[Rubicon]

Well, would you look at that. The ISFp used some force for once. And I wasn't touting betas as better; I was just promoting my viewpoint with confidence. I found YOUR arguments disgusting and your attitude towards my and others' point of view absolutely ridiculous, so hey, we're even. And lol @ your opinion of my typing methods. I know who is what type, and not all pussies are alpha or delta. It just so happens that I like betas and gammas more; if you don't like my aristocratic attitude, suck a dick. Your opinion on my personality, character, etc. means shit to me. Now go back to your picnic and watch some ducks while the elites accomplish things

There's a difference between confidence that's founded and confidence that's baseless. You possess the latter. There's nothing behind it except arrogance, misconceptions and bullshit. Good luck with that attitude in life.

I am not 100% certain on her type, but the point was that I believed she was an sx/sp ISFp, which demonstrates how I never claimed that the combination was impossible. Stop skewing shit, you deluded clown.

My point was that that particular bit of information about Dolphin is rendered useless because of your new typing of her, you pedantic duck.

I never said you should think that I am correct. I have presented arguments for your instinct stacking in two threads now, based on impressions I have built up of the different types, and my observations of you (and you were quite agreeable in our pm conversation on the matter). No one is ordering you to obey the commands (although that might help); I could care less if you accept them or not. My opinion is and will remain that you are not sx/sp. If you want to type yourself that way to feed your ego, fine. Just remember that I actually understand the enneagram much more thoroughly than you, and thus will not be phased by your facile ideas on that subject.

I have no doubt that you understand the enneagram more thoroughly than I do. Nor do I have any doubt that I understand my behaviour better than you do. You have to have a good understanding of both in order to type someone correctly. Maybe you're right, but considering the motivations you've attributed to my behaviour have so far been wrong, you should understand why I view your typing of me with skepticism.

[strrrng]

There's a difference between confidence that's founded and confidence that's baseless. You possess the latter. There's nothing behind it except arrogance, misconceptions and bullshit. Good luck with that attitude in life.

My attitude was not baseless. I have had countless encounters and observations of similar things, and have seen recurring patterns regarding quadra values illustrated consistently. But think what you want, I don't care.

My point was that that particular bit of information about Dolphin is rendered useless because of your new typing of her, you pedantic duck.

But I said I'm not completely certain of her typing. I may re-conclude that she is in fact ISFp, and thus, that information will become useful again. Whatever, though.

I have no doubt that you understand the enneagram more thoroughly than I do. Nor do I have any doubt that I understand my behaviour better than you do. You have to have a good understanding of both in order to type someone correctly. Maybe you're right, but considering the motivations you've attributed to my behaviour have so far been wrong, you should understand why I view your typing of me with skepticism.

Fine.