Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 43

Thread: The suggestibility/pliability of INTps and ENTjs

  1. #1
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default The suggestibility/pliability of INTps and ENTjs

    Something discojoe noticed in niffweed, and something I noticed in Expat. Maybe it's because they're both dynamic or something, but they basically both often will accept something as long as it makes perfect sense to them I guess. The thing is, I've never noticed it in anyone else but these guys. I could imagine Isha and Maria being the same, although they do defend their ideas with more initial fervour. Nonetheless, is this because of the Te that they (you two if you read this) manage to flex there I ideas?

  2. #2
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    is this because of the Te that they (you two if you read this) manage to flex there I ideas?
    Not sure I understand that sentence.

    Also, perhaps you could be more specific.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  3. #3
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I am confused. Don't most people accept ideas that make perfect sense to them?
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    i think discojoe is exaggerating my having been manipulated in this situation. i have more background on strrrng than he does, and i definitely have a healthy dose of skepticism as to his motives. nonetheless, given his intellectual history, i think his actions make sense.

  5. #5
    implied's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    7,750
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    nonetheless, given his intellectual history, i think his actions make sense.


    so do i re: strrrng's actions.


    and ezra, maybe you're right. i think mysticsonic said something similar about me once in a sort of reversed manner. i can't remember his exact words but it was something like, "something i associate heavily with you is the inability to accept anything that doesn't make sense to you." (correct me if i'm wrong MS.)

    i don't understand what you're asking either re: flexing ideas.
    6w5 sx
    model Φ: -+0
    sloan - rcuei

  6. #6
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Here's my opinion, which I don't feel like defending.

    Te and Ni aren't really good for when it comes to seeing what someone is "really" up to. I think motives tend to get contextualized in a fog of possibilities and doubt, and Te/Ni people need someone with strong Se and Fi to step in and say This person is trying to manipulate you; or This guy is up to no good; or What an ass. Let's not talk to him anymore.

    We're talking about naturally being in tune with an internal cause and effect system, (someone's emotions, motives, behavior, etc.) something which INTps and ENTjs, in my opinion, tend to over-analyze and treat in a Te/Ni fashion. They tend to treat such problems from a standpoint of Te efficiency, thinking of how undesirable people and situations can be dealt with in such a way that negative consequences are minimized. The problem is that this can often lead to an answer that "makes sense" yet results in the INTp/ENTj getting conned by someone whose real behavior they can't easily see.

    (I want to quickly point out that I don't think the person doing the conning in necessarily bad or malicious in every case, but there is still a level of motivation there that the Gamma NT can't easily perceive, which could help them deal with the situation more effectively.)

    Ugh. Anyway, I think the trick to Gamma SFs being able to readily perceive underlying motivations comes from being able to pick out Fe cues and use Si to unconsciously "slip in" to that person's character and form an idea of what the person is up to, and then form an Fi judgment of that idea, along with an unwavering Se stance on the issue.

    I'm not saying that other types can't do this, but I think that being able to do it constantly and comfortably is a Gamma SF thing.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Here's my opinion, which I don't feel like defending.

    Te and Ni aren't really good for when it comes to seeing what someone is "really" up to. I think motives tend to get contextualized in a fog of possibilities and doubt, and Te/Ni people need someone with strong Se and Fi to step in and say This person is trying to manipulate you; or This guy is up to no good; or What an ass. Let's not talk to him anymore.

    We're talking about naturally being in tune with an internal cause and effect system, (someone's emotions, motives, behavior, etc.) something which INTps and ENTjs, in my opinion, tend to over-analyze and treat in a Te/Ni fashion. They tend to treat such problems from a standpoint of Te efficiency, thinking of how undesirable people and situations can be dealt with in such a way that negative consequences are minimized. The problem is that this can often lead to an answer that "makes sense" yet results in the INTp/ENTj getting conned by someone whose real behavior they can't easily see.

    (I want to quickly point out that I don't think the person doing the conning in necessarily bad or malicious in every case, but there is still a level of motivation there that the Gamma NT can't easily perceive, which could help them deal with the situation more effectively.)

    Ugh. Anyway, I think the trick to Gamma SFs being able to readily perceive underlying motivations comes from being able to pick out Fe cues and use Si to unconsciously "slip in" to that person's character and form an idea of what the person is up to, and then form an Fi judgment of that idea, along with an unwavering Se stance on the issue.

    I'm not saying that other types can't do this, but I think that being able to do it constantly and comfortably is a Gamma SF thing.
    i think this is far more applicable to LIE/ESI than to ILI/SEE.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i think this is far more applicable to LIE/ESI than to ILI/SEE.
    Maybe. Shrug.

  9. #9
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Here's my opinion, which I don't feel like defending.

    Te and Ni aren't really good for when it comes to seeing what someone is "really" up to. I think motives tend to get contextualized in a fog of possibilities and doubt, and Te/Ni people need someone with strong Se and Fi to step in and say This person is trying to manipulate you; or This guy is up to no good; or What an ass. Let's not talk to him anymore.

    We're talking about naturally being in tune with an internal cause and effect system, (someone's emotions, motives, behavior, etc.) something which INTps and ENTjs, in my opinion, tend to over-analyze and treat in a Te/Ni fashion. They tend to treat such problems from a standpoint of Te efficiency, thinking of how undesirable people and situations can be dealt with in such a way that negative consequences are minimized. The problem is that this can often lead to an answer that "makes sense" yet results in the INTp/ENTj getting conned by someone whose real behavior they can't easily see.

    (I want to quickly point out that I don't think the person doing the conning in necessarily bad or malicious in every case, but there is still a level of motivation there that the Gamma NT can't easily perceive, which could help them deal with the situation more effectively.)

    Ugh. Anyway, I think the trick to Gamma SFs being able to readily perceive underlying motivations comes from being able to pick out Fe cues and use Si to unconsciously "slip in" to that person's character and form an idea of what the person is up to, and then form an Fi judgment of that idea, along with an unwavering Se stance on the issue.

    I'm not saying that other types can't do this, but I think that being able to do it constantly and comfortably is a Gamma SF thing.
    Even then, the Gamma NT is still open to manipulation from Gamma SFs with ulterior motives depending upon the nature of the relationship between the Gamma SF and the Gamma NT. So it is not as if every Gamma NT will get this kind service from a Gamma SF.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Even then, the Gamma NT is still open to manipulation from Gamma SFs with ulterior motives depending upon the nature of the relationship between the Gamma SF and the Gamma NT. So it is not as if every Gamma NT will get this kind service from a Gamma SF.
    Well, yeah. I was talking about positive relations.

  11. #11
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Well, yeah. I was talking about positive relations.
    I do sometimes wonder if Socionics talks (or assumes, for that matter) too much that certain Socionics relationships will be positive, when they seem far more idealized.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  12. #12
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I generally agree with the points discojoe and Logos made, and I agree with niffweed that that's more of a LIE-ESI than ILI-SEE issue.

    Still, I'd like to know from Ezra what he exactly meant.

    My comment is this -- I think LIEs (and perhaps ILIs, to some extent) prefer to give others the benefit of the doubt as to their sincerity of intentions. So, it's not so much "I will take him at face value" but often "hmm, he may have ulterious motives, but I don't know, that may be unfair, so for the moment I will take him at face value" and keep an eye open -- or at least try to. Of course, often, that's not enough.

    In such situations, if it turns out that the person had indeed ulterior motives, the reaction is more of disappointment and low-key anger at myself, with a self-warning to be more careful in the future.

    In the situations where I was totally caught off-guard, then, the reaction is much more -- intense, and includes cutting off the person totally, if at all possible.

    The ESI's role is indeed to say "of course he has ulterior motives!".

    And by the way, this is pretty much what I meant in my "Fe-Ti and Fi-Te filters" thread -- it is the Fi filter that tells you such things regarding invididuals.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  13. #13
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think I understand precisely what Ezra is reffering to, because I have observed it myself as well, and I think the responses so far are mostly off point.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  14. #14
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well, can you elaborate, then?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  15. #15
    dbmmama's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,831
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    And by the way, this is pretty much what I meant in my "Fe-Ti and Fi-Te filters" thread -- it is the Fi filter that tells you such things regarding invididuals.
    i may have to read that thread because that is what i do, which i believed to be Fe reading that stuff in people.

  16. #16
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dbmmama View Post
    i may have to read that thread because that is what i do, which i believed to be Fe reading that stuff in people.
    It is, as well. Fe is what makes you read between the lines, including of what a person says and does, rather than "just" read the lines themselves.

    Fe, however, does that in a more general, dynamic, "impersonal" way. Fi is what then puts it in a structure -- as in, "that person can't be trusted".
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  17. #17
    crazedrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    moon
    Posts
    4,885
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    they're probably just agreeing with you because they don't care and they want you to go away; and they realize what you are saying could never remotely effect them anyway
    INTp

  18. #18
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Well, can you elaborate, then?
    I was so expecting this question. Anyway, I wish I could explain but I don't think I can. Maybe something like, you will accept certain things/conclusions as long as they are in complete accordance to your own beliefs/knowledge, and if you later gain new knowledge on the same subject/things than you might change your opinion, sometimes even drastically, no matter how contradicting it would be to the previous one you 've had or something... But I don't know, this is lame, I better let Ezra explain what he's talking about, because I might as well be missing his point too.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  19. #19
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    they're probably just agreeing with you because they don't care and they want you to go away; and they realize what you are saying could never remotely effect them anyway
    I don't think that's usually the case, but maybe that's what you would be inclined to do.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  20. #20
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Maybe something like, you will accept certain things/conclusions as long as they are in complete accordance to your own beliefs/knowledge, and if you later gain new knowledge on the same subject/things than you might change your opinion, sometimes even drastically, no matter how contradicting it would be to the previous one you 've had or something...
    Right -- and perhaps you can tell me, in your own words, what is remarkable about what you just described?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  21. #21
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Right -- and perhaps you can tell me, in your own words, what is remarkable about what you just described?
    Who said there was something remarkable about it? And the way I explained it is even less remarkable. I can't believe I actually wrote that shit, it doesn't seem to have much substance and it makes me look almost incredibly stupid. Anyways, I am sort of cranky, I haven't slept for almost two days now and I shouldn't have written that.
    Last edited by Park; 08-19-2008 at 11:30 AM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  22. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think it's more of an ESI/LIE thing the way I described it, but I think the principle applies to the entire quadra.

  23. #23
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Not sure I understand that sentence.
    I was saying that Gamma NTs change their ideas very easily. I thought this was maybe attributable to Te and, more specifically, dynamicness. Why I used the word "flex", I don't know. I think it was due to lack of a better word. I wanted to put across the idea of "flexibility" within the ideas of the Gamma NT, and ended up using this word, hahaha.

    Also, perhaps you could be more specific.
    Primarily, it concerns three cases. One, I found, was with niffweed; the very same thing discojoe noticed and commented on in the "me as LSI" (or whatever it's called) thread. The second case concerns you, Expat, and my type, a few months ago. I know you didn't have a clear opinion of it, but early on when I asked you, SLE was the most likely type. Then something happened when you spoke to Isha, and SEE becomes the most likely type. Now, I know you don't think she really convinced you because you never had a proper position in the first place, but I still think she must have had some effect on your thinking, because if she hadn't talked to you, you wouldn't have thought SEE was most likely, out of the blue. Clearly her dynamic Te information corresponded well with reality, and thus you were prepared to accept this as her mirror. The third case involves my many conversations with Maria. She essentially throws ideas around, which I once attributed to poor Te, but actually, it's probably indicative of Te; that is, strong Te. She has no clear, firm view of someone's type, not because she's an idiot or because she doesn't really have a real sense of things (like dee doesn't), but because she has a lack of info, and is using all she has to reach any kind of realistic conclusion.

  24. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think it has to do with how Te conclusions are always subject to change pending new information.

  25. #25
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    The second case concerns you, Expat, and my type, a few months ago. I know you didn't have a clear opinion of it, but early on when I asked you, SLE was the most likely type. Then something happened when you spoke to Isha, and SEE becomes the most likely type. Now, I know you don't think she really convinced you because you never had a proper position in the first place, but I still think she must have had some effect on your thinking, because if she hadn't talked to you, you wouldn't have thought SEE was most likely, out of the blue. Clearly her dynamic Te information corresponded well with reality, and thus you were prepared to accept this as her mirror.
    Fine, but that is hardly a case of "totally contradicting the previous opinion". If you'll remember, I raised SLE as a possible type for you early on. I don't think I seriously considered, for any length of time, after meeting you, any type besides SLE or SEE. That is hardly a shift between two extreme positions.

    It's not just Isha's "talking to me" that made me tilt to SEE. If you'll remember, we had discussed other things, including the Filatova descriptions, etc. That she could see you as SEE confirmed something I was already considering. But that only happened because I, myself, was already unsure of SLE (but not considering every other type, obviously).

    Now, I don't disagree with your analysis (except that, in this particular case, her being my mirror is really not important), but I don't see how that fits your case for "manipulability".
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  26. #26
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I think it has to do with how Te conclusions are always subject to change pending new information.
    Sure, but if the information is contradictory, then they are not really seen as "conclusions", rather as "working hypotheses".
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  27. #27
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Now, I don't disagree with your analysis (except that, in this particular case, her being my mirror is really not important), but I don't see how that fits your case for "manipulability".
    To outsiders, it's looks like manipulability. Remember when we talked about how Betas look like they prefer group behaviour to outsiders? Same principle.

  28. #28
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    To outsiders, it's looks like manipulability. Remember when we talked about how Betas look like they prefer group behaviour to outsiders? Same principle.
    A turd covered with lime can also look like a chocolate fudge cake to outsiders.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  29. #29
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    A turd covered with lime can also look like a chocolate fudge cake to outsiders.
    But it's not.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  30. #30
    Expat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,853
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Exactly.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  31. #31
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    I was so expecting this question. Anyway, I wish I could explain but I don't think I can. Maybe something like, you will accept certain things/conclusions as long as they are in complete accordance to your own beliefs/knowledge, and if you later gain new knowledge on the same subject/things than you might change your opinion, sometimes even drastically, no matter how contradicting it would be to the previous one you 've had or something... But I don't know, this is lame, I better let Ezra explain what he's talking about, because I might as well be missing his point too.
    Why wouldn't anyone change their views when they get new info? I can see how it could be specific maybe to valuing Te but it seems like it's a pretty natural way to react to getting new information. If new information contradicts something you thought was correct, you learn you were wrong and move on with the new information. Why is that bad or weird?
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  32. #32
    xyz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,709
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    Why wouldn't anyone change their views when they get new info? I can see how it could be specific maybe to valuing Te but it seems like it's a pretty natural way to react to getting new information. If new information contradicts something you thought was correct, you learn you were wrong and move on with the new information. Why is that bad or weird?
    Maybe cognitive dissonance plays a major role.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

  33. #33

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I think it's more of an ESI/LIE thing the way I described it, but I think the principle applies to the entire quadra.
    in certain ways, maybe. but i think it's more complex than you're giving credit for.

  34. #34
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    in certain ways, maybe. but i think it's more complex than you're giving credit for.
    Fine, I'll give septims instead.

  35. #35

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Fine, I'll give septims instead.
    i only accept ayleid artifacts as payment.

  36. #36
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2005
    TIM
    D-LSI-Ti 1w9 sp/sx
    Posts
    11,586
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i only accept ayleid artifacts as payment.
    Will you accept the entire set of ayleid statues?

  37. #37

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Will you accept the entire set of ayleid statues?
    i might have, but i just killed umbacano and stole the them all.

  38. #38
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    Why is that bad or weird?
    No one said it was. (at least I didn't...)
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  39. #39
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    No one said it was. (at least I didn't...)
    Oh, ok. Maybe Ezra thinks it's bad? Or weak or something? Personally, I think it's weak to not be willing to change your mind when you learn something new.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  40. #40
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    Oh, ok. Maybe Ezra thinks it's bad? Or weak or something?
    I didn't get that impression, so in my opnion, you are making a speculative assumption.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •