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Thread: Effect Of Conflicting Parent?

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    Default Effect Of Conflicting Parent?

    What is the effect of a child and parent having a conflict relation?

    Would this effect the childs development? It seems as though it would be damaging....

    Thoughts?

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    There's already a thread on this. I'll post the link when I find it.

    Edit: Found it.

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    It would seem that my mother is SLE and my sister is EII. My sister is unable to stand up to my mom without upsetting her, and before she was an adult she wasn't able to stand up to our mom at all.

    Example A: One time my mom found out that my sister did something that she didn't approve of with a boy, so she grounded my sister for a year. I wasn't at home and had problems of my own to deal with at the time, so I had no idea what was going on (or she most certainly would not have been grounded for a year!). My sister would break the rules in secret (sex, drugs, etc.) and hurt herself (cutting, taking 30 advil at once, etc.), but she didn't argue with or try to blatantly resist the year long sentence.

    Example B: My sister moved back in with my parents after a divorce so she could save up to buy a house. She works full time and goes to school full time (both 30 to 45 minutes from my parent's house), so she has to make wise use of whatever time she has at home to do her homework. She'll be sitting at the table trying to concentrate and my mom won't stop talking to her, even when she tries to nicely explain that she needs to concentrate. She doesn't know how to get my mom to stop talking with out making her feel bad. (If it were me I'd just bitch and possibly even yell... and then laugh about it and tell her we can talk later when I take a break. Every time she said anything after that I'd bitch some more. She wouldn't like it, but she wouldn't feel rejected and lonely.)

    My sister has always been an overachiever, I think because my mom said that she didn't care about our grades, she only wanted us to do our best (and didn't say "within reason"). She'd push herself too hard and care too much about not letting anyone (including teachers) down. My sister was always "the good kid" when we were growing up, too, because she did what she had to do to avoid getting in trouble with my mom. She always tried to do everything right, to be above reproach... even when the expectations weren't reasonable. She saw her own state of well being as something that could be sacrificed, her own wants/needs as irrelevant.

    Right now she's in her early 20's. She's in much better shape than she ever has been, as far as I can tell. She doesn't hurt herself any more (that I know of) and hasn't tried killing herself in a couple years. She definitely seems happier than she ever has, though she seems to be stressed out about stuff most of the time. She's still bad at dealing with people though because she internalizes frustrations and doesn't know how to properly stand up for herself. She also still expects too much of herself.

    She'll get there... she just needs keep going in the direction she's headed in right now.
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    To respond to the topic more specifically, I do think that having a conflicting parent could be damaging, but a dual parent could be damaging as well.

    A healthy parent of any intertype relation is more likely to have healthy kids than an unhealthy parent is. Someone whose ego functions were suppressed may have to "find themselves" as a young adult more so than someone whose ego functions were rewarded, but I don't think it has to be the end of the world. Even the child of an unhealthy conflictor parent could grow up to be a very happy and healthy person, if (s)he has resolved to do so. Such a person would develop much more resilience than the average person has.
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    To respond to the topic more specifically, I do think that having a conflicting parent could be damaging, but a dual parent could be damaging as well.
    A dual parent damaging, how? Anybody could be damaging for issues unrelated to socionics. I'm guessing dual relationships in parents/siblings would act similiar to dual romantic relationships. A sense of respect and ignoring each other so you can find yourself, but then deep love and intensity when you really need it the most. Not manipulating your "weaknesses" against you like most people would do, and not trying to change who you are. Not overidealizing either like your contrary would do, but true acceptance. "Real, practical love" as good as it's gonna get. "Wow, you gave me just what I needed, I didn't know what I needed, but I see the light now and you gave me it- and now I can actually progress."

    The only difference is you don't want to fuck or cuddle or coo your mom or dad. At least I hope not.

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    Someone whose ego functions were suppressed may have to "find themselves" as a young adult more so than someone whose ego functions were rewarded, but I don't think it has to be the end of the world.
    I agree with your hopeful outlook generally, but I don't know if 'rewarding' is the best word to use. My parents tried to reward me a lot for my strong but it's clear they didn't really, truly, actually VALUE it. True respect for its own sake and a 'reward' are two different things.

    And as for suicide/cutting and stuff, I don't get those thoughts as despite having a naturally sad personality my whole life I just don't know what that's really like. Sometimes I actually WANTED to be suicidal just to see what it was like, because I enjoy all experiences... but it never happened. Despite making some generally poor choices on things, I never allowed myself to get that bad or other people to treat me that bad. Yay me?

    Also it's cute how you are clearly dual-seeking on this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    A dual parent damaging, how? Anybody could be damaging for issues unrelated to socionics.
    Exactly.

    I'm guessing dual relationships in parents/siblings would act similiar to dual romantic relationships. A sense of respect and ignoring each other so you can find yourself, but then deep love and intensity when you really need it the most. Not manipulating your "weaknesses" against you like most people would do, and not trying to change who you are. Not overidealizing either like your contrary would do, but true acceptance. "Real, practical love" as good as it's gonna get. "Wow, you gave me just what I needed, I didn't know what I needed, but I see the light now and you gave me it- and now I can actually progress."
    I'd argue that one could progress without having had that.

    The only difference is you don't want to fuck or cuddle or coo your mom or dad. At least I hope not.
    Speak for yourself!

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    I agree with your hopeful outlook generally, but I don't know if 'rewarding' is the best word to use. My parents tried to reward me a lot for my strong but it's clear they didn't really, truly, actually VALUE it. True respect for its own sake and a 'reward' are two different things.
    What I meant was more of a natural thing than something a parent would attempt to do.

    And as for suicide/cutting and stuff, I don't get those thoughts as despite having a naturally sad personality my whole life I just don't know what that's really like. Sometimes I actually WANTED to be suicidal just to see what it was like, because I enjoy all experiences... but it never happened. Despite making some generally poor choices on things, I never allowed myself to get that bad or other people to treat me that bad. Yay me?
    I've never been suicidal either, no matter how depressed I was or how helpless and helpless I was feeling. I guess I always knew that there's no way I could know that things wouldn't get better. I knew that I had no way of knowing how the future would turn out, and that at some point this period in time would be a distant memory. At some point I would be a different person, my circumstances would be completely different, etc. I thought it would be foolish to believe otherwise.

    Also it's cute how you are clearly dual-seeking on this thread.
    I'm not sure how, but I won't argue. (I imagine that someone who knows what they're looking for could see evidence of Fi dual seeking in pretty much everything I do, as it is very much an underlying part of who I am.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    Am I misinterpreting this?
    Only in that you couldn't tell it was a joke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    fail
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markuz View Post
    There's already a thread on this. I'll post the link when I find it.

    Edit: Found it.
    Thanks ! I will use the search before I post a topic next time.

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    The thing with conflicting isnt it that it as much as it feels bad for the one person it feels bad for the other? so it is a balanced verrsion, why don't anyone make a thread about conflicting childs, that poeple just will snort at!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
    The thing with conflicting isnt it that it as much as it feels bad for the one person it feels bad for the other? so it is a balanced verrsion, why don't anyone make a thread about conflicting childs, that poeple just will snort at!
    A parent is in a position of power over the child while the child is young, helpless, and impressionable... plus this forum consists primarily of people who either don't have kids or have very young kinds... so it's natural that the focus would be on the kids.

    The rockier parts of the relationship between my SLE and EII sister were hard on my mom though, too. At one point my sister told her that she needed to work through some stuff and didn't want to talk to her for a while. I think they didn't talk for like a year. My mom was really hurt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    A healthy parent of any intertype relation is more likely to have healthy kids than an unhealthy parent is. Someone whose ego functions were suppressed may have to "find themselves" as a young adult more so than someone whose ego functions were rewarded, but I don't think it has to be the end of the world. Even the child of an unhealthy conflictor parent could grow up to be a very happy and healthy person, if (s)he has resolved to do so. Such a person would develop much more resilience than the average person has.
    I agree.

    Having said that, on me the effect of having a conflicting parent (and opposing quadra in the whole immediate family) was to inhibit me from freely using my base function, ie making me more "introverted" according to the non-socionics use of the term. As if, your most natural way to behave and to talk is something that you're "encouraged to suppress".
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    You might want to consider reading up on the idea of boundaries. I think conflicting parents don't necessarily create a uniform response in their children. For example, an extraverted parent might tend to violate their children's boundaries more than an introverted parent regardless of their child's actual type. I also do not think that the reaction of the child is uniform. Some kids might clam up as a result of this and others might mirror the behavior of the parent with others. I don't think people have inherent personality types. I think they definitely have typical reactions that are born out of their unique minds but, most people change throughout their lives by developing new neural connections that change those "innate" reactions and this is even more the case during those very early formative years where very strong associations are being built up in young minds.
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    There's a kind of puppy dog innocence when extroverts violate boundaries, almost like they don't really know what they're doing and are kind of 'just playing.' It's still annoying as shit if it's an extrovert you don't want to deal with, of course.

    Oh and I can't believe Rick on his blog actually posted about how two introverts clash and two extroverts clash but extrovert/introvert is yaay peachy. That is so fucking retarded & heterosexist I don't even know where to begin. It totally depends on the extrovert and introvert in question and what types they are. What the fuck, how could he post something so inane when he's generally smart was beyond me.

    I think, and I'm being guilty of this right now, the more you write about relationships the less you actually HAVE one in reality. Otherwise you would be out just enjoying the other person's company. I did meet a few interesting people today though. =)

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    Thanks for the replies everyone!

    Your posts were really helpful Joy !

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    A conflictor parent can have a very damaging effect on the relationship between (s)he and the child. However, it could also lead to understanding and even perhaps respect between opposing quadra members. I think it was Expat who was talking a while ago about a subdued function because the family member has learned that no one in the family values it e.g. an SLE whose Se is at first not that evident, because no one in the family values Se. They learn to tame it. Obviously, it's not their natural way of being, and it can be horrible to have to put up with it, but the fact is, they can put up with it, for the sake of peace, harmony and stability within family relationships.

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    Interesting points about introverts and extroverts.

    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    Thanks for the replies everyone!

    Your posts were really helpful Joy !
    Glad to hear it.

    I should point out that they get along reasonably well now. They don't fight or hurt each other's feelings all that often, even though my sister is living with them again.

    I should also point out that my mom is not a very good example of an SLE. (I'm not even entirely sure that she's SLE. )

    Do any SLE's or EII's want to comment on what I wrote about their interactions?
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinki View Post
    What is the effect of a child and parent having a conflict relation?

    Would this effect the childs development? It seems as though it would be damaging....

    Thoughts?
    none. my father and my brother are Conflictors. The relationship was very smooth. Only a slight dissatisfaction (expressed only in discussions with me) on the side of my Decisive father about my SEI brother's softness and peace&quiet-seeking sometimes. They clearly have different kinds of personalities, one choleric and sociable, the other a bit isolationist and passive. But their relationship was always good.

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