Mirror type differences ILE-ENTp and LII-INTj

[UDP]

I was surprised, when the socion test revealed ENTp as being up there with my INTj type, and so I want to ask those "more in the know" about the differences between these two.

[Joy]

well we're talking about NeTi vs. TiNe. Look at my "an explanation of functional analysis" threads in alpha. See which POLR and hidden agendas and role functions fit.

[Angel von Himmel]

I was surprised, when the socion test revealed ENTp as being up there with my INTj type, and so I want to ask those "more in the know" about the differences between these two.

This is not on the socion.info website as of yet, but these are some notable diffrences:

1st/2nd Functions:
INTj - Main emphasis is analyzing logic and continually directing to main point of logic. INTjs May manifest a quite noticable tendency to pick-a-part logical concepts and draw other peoples attention to the fact that they are doing so with whatever abstract details that can conjure up.

ENTp: Main emphasis is the active consideration of various abstract belief systems and analyzing the strength and weaknesses of those systems using analytical logic. ENTps may manifest a tendency to create origional solutions to logical problems and avoid using logical solutions that other have already invented. ENTps tend to not have a loyalty to belief systems that they have found to be inferior and accept new beliefs when found superior.

3rd/4th Functions:

INTjs: Tend to appear reserved around people and may frowns when other people approach them. Have problems feeling that they can love people and may not make many attempts to get to know others closer.
INTjs also tend to be passive people and usually need to be pushed a little by someone else if they have to get anything done.

ENTps: Tend to get bored with people quickly that they understand. They may even be emotionally untactful and have problems understand how others feel about them. They often have problems with being too close or too far away emotionally. They do not do well under pressure and break down in in stressful situations.

[diamond]

Good write-up Reuben.

[UDP]

I was surprised, when the socion test revealed ENTp as being up there with my INTj type, and so I want to ask those "more in the know" about the differences between these two.

This is not on the socion.info website as of yet, but these are some notable diffrences:

1st/2nd Functions:
INTj - Main emphasis is analyzing logic and continually directing to main point of logic. INTjs May manifest a quite noticable tendency to pick-a-part logical concepts and draw other peoples attention to the fact that they are doing so with whatever abstract details that can conjure up.

ENTp: Main emphasis is the active consideration of various abstract belief systems and analyzing the strength and weaknesses of those systems using analytical logic. ENTps may manifest a tendency to create origional solutions to logical problems and avoid using logical solutions that other have already invented. ENTps tend to not have a loyalty to belief systems that they have found to be inferior and accept new beliefs when found superior.

3rd/4th Functions:

INTjs: Tend to appear reserved around people and may frowns when other people approach them. Have problems feeling that they can love people and may not make many attempts to get to know others closer.
INTjs also tend to be passive people and usually need to be pushed a little by someone else if they have to get anything done.

ENTps: Tend to get bored with people quickly that they understand. They may even be emotionally untactful and have problems understand how others feel about them. They often have problems with being too close or too far away emotionally. They do not do well under pressure and break down in in stressful situations.

Based on what is said there, I'm totally an INTj. Especially in regards to my facial expression. I actually studied myself once, and by making an internally feeling odd face, my face looked happy. But if I made my usual expressions, it was a not so happy one, or at least, rather unphotogenenic one.

And then, the.... impromptu meeting I just attended... .... well nevermind about that.

When I am feeling very comfortable in my solitude, I get less unrestrained and more quirky in my postings.

[Ms. Kensington]

nice post, mcnew.

[Full House]

Good post, rmcnew.

I was just thinking, shouln't ENTPs do well in stressful situations? It says so in the ENTP description on this site. My real life experiences back this up too.

[diamond]

Good post, rmcnew.

I was just thinking, shouln't ENTPs do well in stressful situations? It says so in the ENTP description on this site. My real life experiences back this up too.

Entp's do well in emergent situations, but not chronically stressful situations.

[Creepy-]

Good post, rmcnew.

I was just thinking, shouln't ENTPs do well in stressful situations? It says so in the ENTP description on this site. My real life experiences back this up too.

Entp's do well in emergent situations, but not chronically stressful situations.

hm could you say a little on how INTjs react? Would you say they just avoid such situations? I am an intuitive subtype INTj and I feel I work well under pressure.

[Full House]

Blaze, you are probably right.

[Brother Bones]

INTJ's should work very well under pressure. I find that the more pressure that's applied, the tighter and sharper my focus becomes. Answers come out before I think about them and things start rocking along. Problem solvers. Fixers. That's us.

[Gilly]

ENTp's like to work in systems in which they can see their progress over intervals and be satisfied with what they've done: they need either a feeling of accomplishment or positive outside influence to make them feel like what they're doing is worth their time.

Not only do I work best under pressure; I only EVER work under pressure. I leave EVERYTHING until the last moment then go into hyperfocus mode and do everything at once. I think my best work is done when I just get on a roll with one thing and keep doing it until I'm done; I have trouble forcing myself to do something that isn't interesting to me, but when it IS interesting, I jump on it and just workworkworkworkwork until it's done.

Then I find something else to do.

[Angel von Himmel]

ENTp's like to work in systems in which they can see their progress over intervals and be satisfied with what they've done: they need either a feeling of accomplishment or positive outside influence to make them feel like what they're doing is worth their time.

Not only do I work best under pressure; I only EVER work under pressure. I leave EVERYTHING until the last moment then go into hyperfocus mode and do everything at once. I think my best work is done when I just get on a roll with one thing and keep doing it until I'm done; I have trouble forcing myself to do something that isn't interesting to me, but when it IS interesting, I jump on it and just workworkworkworkwork until it's done.

Then I find something else to do.

I think you are confusing pressure with drive, ENTps get way way down during stressful situations and tend to lose motivation for whatever they were doing or for life in general. However, when an ENTp is not feeling pressured by the expectations others and are at their peak, they can do very very well. On the other hand, place an ENTp in a structured system and expect him to work a certain way, and he'll break down. ENTps are not made to follow the predetermined expectations or solutions of others, they need to feel a sense of freedom in order to function properly.

[UDP]

^ and how would an INTj feel about that sort of thing?

[Angel von Himmel]

^ and how would an INTj feel about that sort of thing?

I think it is the opposite with INTj ... they tend to do better when they have some sort of outside stimulation to get them going and can handle stress better. The downside is that they can be indirect and passive during times that require a little more assertiveness and need a more structured enviroment than would an ENTp ...

[UDP]

^ and how would an INTj feel about that sort of thing?

I think it is the opposite with INTj ... they tend to do better when they have some sort of outside stimulation to get them going and can handle stress better. The downside is that they can be indirect and passive during times that require a little more assertiveness and need a more structured enviroment than would an ENTp ...

Whatever the case, I personally find it much better('enjoyable') if I plan out my day (I've realized the differences in my first few days of college here...). I like structured environments...


So, do INTjs like pressure situtions more, as in, gain something more during those situations, where as ENTps can lose some steam on those more pressure situations?

(I'm not being redundant or anything on purpose, I'm just reclarifying something for myself)

[Gilly]

reclarifying?

[Angel von Himmel]

^ and how would an INTj feel about that sort of thing?

I think it is the opposite with INTj ... they tend to do better when they have some sort of outside stimulation to get them going and can handle stress better. The downside is that they can be indirect and passive during times that require a little more assertiveness and need a more structured enviroment than would an ENTp ...

Whatever the case, I personally find it much better('enjoyable') if I plan out my day (I've realized the differences in my first few days of college here...). I like structured environments...


So, do INTjs like pressure situtions more, as in, gain something more during those situations, where as ENTps can lose some steam on those more pressure situations?

(I'm not being redundant or anything on purpose, I'm just reclarifying something for myself)

Well, maybe more like it is essential for INTjs to be pressured and placed in a structured atmosphere in order to be productive. ENTps need a non-pressured non-structured free-for-all type atmosphere in order to be productive.

[universal]

[quote="Blaze"]

Entp's do well in emergent situations, but not chronically stressful situations.

ENTP brains work in turbo. They can tackly many things at once, look at things in many ways at once. They seem very quick to me, yet I can still follow every action they make.

[Nonelse]

Another way to tell the difference between them, especially EN(T)p and I(N)Tj is to use the PoLR and hidden agenda (like the need to be healthy).

how could we see those functions in action?

[universal]

Another way to tell the difference between them, especially EN(T)p and I(N)Tj is to use the PoLR and hidden agenda (like the need to be healthy).

how could we see those functions in action?

From an INTJ perspective I can think of supporting freedom of the other. Holding back an ENTP is like taking away their life essence. The more views and angles they can experience for themselves, the healthier they are I think. Having no jealousy? Being able to talk about ideas? That, or I just don't get socionics.

[UDP]

^ and how would an INTj feel about that sort of thing?

I think it is the opposite with INTj ... they tend to do better when they have some sort of outside stimulation to get them going and can handle stress better. The downside is that they can be indirect and passive during times that require a little more assertiveness and need a more structured enviroment than would an ENTp ...

Whatever the case, I personally find it much better('enjoyable') if I plan out my day (I've realized the differences in my first few days of college here...). I like structured environments...


So, do INTjs like pressure situtions more, as in, gain something more during those situations, where as ENTps can lose some steam on those more pressure situations?

(I'm not being redundant or anything on purpose, I'm just reclarifying something for myself)

Well, maybe more like it is essential for INTjs to be pressured and placed in a structured atmosphere in order to be productive. ENTps need a non-pressured non-structured free-for-all type atmosphere in order to be productive.

I cannot explain this yet, but....... when I'm put in a more clutch situation, things change tremendously for me. My intuition picks up, and I am better able to implement my :'already in order' logical thought processes. I noticed this today in a class.

Perhaps it's like......
I've always had senses of knowing when to 'pull the trigger' on things, but.... just wasn't prepared or planned enough to insert/asser myself into a situation (so in the past I just did nothing, or sat there uneasily, on the fence between action and inaction, or similar). The difference at this point in my life is that I have already worked out several of the issues in advance, so when the time comes to pull the trigger, those "thought processes", or (hmm...... what's a good way to describe it....... "chunks of logic", or perhaps better - formulae and theories.... they are already there). So...... now that I am confident in those internal formulas, pulling the trigger in situations comes more naturally for me.


I have noticed I've been able to capitalize on situations greatly, when other people are at a loss; today... I .... had an interesting experience, I guess. I don't know how to classify it yet, completely, though.


PS: sp is off because I'm in a hurry. write more later I will.

[diljs]

Aside from outgoingness/sociability/number of friends, what are some general differences between ENTp and INTj?

(I've read the old threads, and the differences given are mostly from a social standpoint, which is not helpful to me in determining between the two)

edit: Could some ILEs and LIIs explain how the specific ordering of Ne and Ti in their thought processes works? I'd like to hear more about how the primary and secondary functions work together, what brings new information in, what makes the final decision, etc. in your own words.

[diljs]

Like what are you like in situations with new people, do you pose as confident and here and now person, acutely aware of things; or a friendly persona, smiling and or being very tactful? In excuses or explanations to get out of unpleasant situations, do you often blame some mishaps, lack of finances or breakages; or is it to do with time, like you have to go, or whatever? They have a number of Reinin dichotomies different, you can go over the wikisocion "how functions are at certain model slots" stuff too.

I appear very confident to others, almost arrogant. People have feared interacting with me because they thought I didn't like them, when really I simply didn't want to appear needy in my desire to interact with them.

I am aware, I wouldn't necessarily consider myself "acutely aware" in the way say my ISFp friend is socially. I am general spaced out and thinking about other things, but I can also usually tell you what everyone did at a party afterwards, and I'm very in tune with what people are doing (either physically or mentally, e.g. He's trying to get that chick's attention over there, he keeps glancing across the room at her while he shows off his skills at catch phrase) around me (but NOT what they're feeling), whether I focus or not.

I had a very "go away" type of personality up until a few years ago, due primarily to the minimal "common sense" social exposure I'd had. I started smiling in college, and now I'll smile at anyone I see (especially after this last job where that was basically required). I generally make a great first impression on people, as very intelligent, quick, open, etc., but my relationships decline when I fail to follow up. I see the same person the next day and will just say "hi" and walky past because I have no concept of whether we're actually friends or were just bs-ing last night and that person doesn't really want to talk to me again.

Definitely NOT a tactful person. I work at it now, but it isn't natural and I still say very random things at inappropriate times, realize later and worry the person might hate me, then forget about it quickly.

To get out of situations, I don't think I've ever blamed finances or other external factors, I typically will just say I'm going to go do something else now, "I need to drop this off at the post office" or some other activity I had planned.

I've looked over everything the model lineups a lot, and ENTp makes the most sense. I've read them so much that they kind of blend together at this point, however, and INTj definitely has some elements that could be true as well (the astrology effect - suggestibility is probably a factor).

[JRiddy]

Actually the "social" differences are not as profound as one might think. Do not confuse extraversion and introversion with being outgoing or shy. Though that can be one of the way it manifests, some LIIs may have a wider circle of friends than some ILEs. The most easy to identify difference between the two is temperament. ILEs are much more flexible, but often somewhat inconsistent, whereas LIIs are typically more rigid, but more reliable. Rationals and Irrationals kinda have a different "rhythm" about them. ILEs are often very impulsive, and have fairly pronounced moods, whereas LIIs are often more deliberate, and seem to experience longer, more stable moods.

[diljs]

Actually the "social" differences are not as profound as one might think. Do not confuse extraversion and introversion with being outgoing or shy. Though that can be one of the way it manifests, some LIIs may have a wider circle of friends than some ILEs. The most easy to identify difference between the two is temperament. ILEs are much more flexible, but often somewhat inconsistent, whereas LIIs are typically more rigid, but more reliable. Rationals and Irrationals kinda have a different "rhythm" about them. ILEs are often very impulsive, and have fairly pronounced moods, whereas LIIs are often more deliberate, and seem to experience longer, more stable moods.

I talked about this in my typing thread a little bit, and I get the difference between the general psychological "extraversion=outgoing" concept, vs Jungian "extraversion=openness to new experience". I definitely have struggled with shyness or just general lack of social development, and that makes it difficult to tell my true nature. I see shyness as independent of type, something that is a separate issue.

As far as temperament, I definitely identify more with EP than IJ. I am an extremely flexible, go with the flow kind of person, especially in social situations. I don't have the J "agenda" or regularity, although I do feel like I carefully think things through at times the way my IJ friends do. My moods change fairly quickly, although I don't have a very wide range of them. I think to an external observer I would appear the opposite, however, especially in social situations when I sit on the couch, lean back, and look around not saying much, possibly talking to one or two friends intensely about various subjects. I would prefer to be involved in the action, and situations where I have been able to "work the room" have been very fulfilling, but I don't feel competent in doing that generally. Would an INTj be internally comfortable doing what I generally do for the whole party, or would he be looking around the whole time keeping tabs on what everyone else is doing the whole time and wishing he were more involved?

Reliability is an interesting thing, I do my best to follow through on all my commitments, but this is a struggle for me and I avoid commitment in general (just ask my ex girlfriends) as much as possible.

[JRiddy]

I talked about this in my typing thread a little bit, and I get the difference between the general psychological "extraversion=outgoing" concept, vs Jungian "extraversion=openness to new experience". I definitely have struggled with shyness or just general lack of social development, and that makes it difficult to tell my true nature. I see shyness as independent of type, something that is a separate issue.

Extraversion is not really "openness to new experience". In fact, some introverts are far more open (particularly IPs) because they are less intent on shaping the world around them than say, EJs. But that's a fairly subjective way of describing things. Shyness is not entirely independent of type either, but it certainly is determined by more than just type.

As far as temperament, I definitely identify more with EP than IJ. I am an extremely flexible, go with the flow kind of person, especially in social situations. I don't have the J "agenda" or regularity, although I do feel like I carefully think things through at times the way my IJ friends do. My moods change fairly quickly, although I don't have a very wide range of them. I think to an external observer I would appear the opposite, however, especially in social situations when I sit on the couch, lean back, and look around not saying much, possibly talking to one or two friends intensely about various subjects. I would prefer to be involved in the action, and situations where I have been able to "work the room" have been very fulfilling, but I don't feel competent in doing that generally. Would an INTj be internally comfortable doing what I generally do for the whole party, or would he be looking around the whole time keeping tabs on what everyone else is doing the whole time and wishing he were more involved?

As a Ti-LII, you would value Fe very strongly, and try to make use of it whenever possible, even if your use of it is a bit uncontrolled. Honestly, the extent to which you break things down smacks so strongly of Ti that it seems like it's your most natural tendency. Honestly, you strike me as thoughtful and reserved, and though not afraid to state your thoughts, you seem to want to make sure they are very coherent before they leave you. This really seems more like the IJ temperament to me, even though you may be messy and not as "rigid" as the LII descriptions might suggest. I think that an LII can be comfortable trying to "work the room" if working the room has to do with discussing what interests him, and trying to catch on to the Fe mood. Although I must say that Ti-ILEs exhibit this behavior as well sometimes.

Reliability is an interesting thing, I do my best to follow through on all my commitments, but this is a struggle for me and I avoid commitment in general (just ask my ex girlfriends) as much as possible.

I meant reliability in different sense, to be honest, as in "less impulsive, more deliberate".

I think the deciding factors for Ti-LII vs. Ti-ILE will be how impulsive you are, and whether you seem to value expression and activation or harmony with your environment more. This can be a tricky thing to evaluate, so think on it a little, and maybe we'll see.

[Gilly]

ILE sounds more likely, IMO. VI-wise you remind me somewhat of David Byrne, who is a pretty solid LII-Ne, IMO, but everything else makes me lean ILE.

[Phaedrus]

You are an extraverted type, diljs. There is no question about that. You are definitely an extraverted type, and since you are 95 % that you are an Alpha NT, you have got your type.

I have read your self-descriptions and looked at your photos, and if most of the things you say about yourself are true, then we can say with 100 % certainty that you are an ENTp. Everything suggests ENTp actually. There is no need to even think about any other type, because everything in your profile is typically ENTp.

Those who are suggesting INTj or INTp for you don't know what they are talking about. It is totally impossible for you to be any of those two types. Nothing at all supports such ridiculous type suggestions. It is really irritating that people can be so incredibly clueless when it comes to correct typing.

Since you have provided so much relevant information about yourself, typing you was very easy. It is not often one can be so sure that a typing is correct as in your case.

[JRiddy]

You are an extraverted type, diljs. There is no question about that. You are definitely an extraverted type, and since you are 95 % that you are an Alpha NT, you have got your type.

I have read your self-descriptions and looked at your photos, and if most of the things you say about yourself are true, then we can say with 100 % certainty that you are an ENTp. Everything suggests ENTp actually. There is no need to even think about any other type, because everything in your profile is typically ENTp.

Those who are suggesting INTj or INTp for you don't know what they are talking about. It is totally impossible for you to be any of those two types. Nothing at all supports such ridiculous type suggestions. It is really irritating that people can be so incredibly clueless when it comes to correct typing.

Since you have provided so much relevant information about yourself, typing you was very easy. It is not often one can be so sure that a typing is correct as in your case.

As you can see from Phaedrus' style of discourse, he is utterly incapable of understanding any real level of complexity in determining types. Though I can very easily entertain the idea of your being extraverted, his offhand dismissal of any other possibilities demonstrates no appreciation for the subtlety of information metabolism. He lacks the ability to distinguish between his opinions and reality, and refers to the former as "objective truth", while deriding the honest pursuit of the latter.

His way of viewing socionics is controversial and generally viewed as fundamentally flawed. However, he does know his type descriptions. Take whatever he says with a grain of salt.

[diljs]

As a Ti-LII, you would value Fe very strongly, and try to make use of it whenever possible, even if your use of it is a bit uncontrolled.

I am HUGE fan of Fe. Makes me very happy. I'm not sure if it's my dual seeking, however, as it's something I've always been conscious of appreciating in the opposite sex. Si, on the other hand, meets EXACTLY the description as the thing that "everyone sees but me", that I didn't think about at all until the ISFps and ESTjs started telling me about it. I also enjoy creating Fe in others very thoroughly, generally joking with my friends whenever possible, even at inappropriate times.

Honestly, the extent to which you break things down smacks so strongly of Ti that it seems like it's your most natural tendency. Honestly, you strike me as thoughtful and reserved, and though not afraid to state your thoughts, you seem to want to make sure they are very coherent before they leave you. This really seems more like the IJ temperament to me, even though you may be messy and not as "rigid" as the LII descriptions might suggest. I think that an LII can be comfortable trying to "work the room" if working the room has to do with discussing what interests him, and trying to catch on to the Fe mood. Although I must say that Ti-ILEs exhibit this behavior as well sometimes.

I definitely use Ti a lot, however I'm not sure if its my primary. Really I have a very hard understanding the flow of Ne feeding Ti in LII vs Ti feeding Ne in ILE, because I feel like I use both so often. The thing about Ti, however is, yes I edit my posts 10 times each as I think of something new immediately afterwards, but it's kind of a drag to do, the posting takes too long, etc. It feels like I crave free communication, but part of me says wait, think about it first, do you really want to say that, and the creative easy going part goes ugghhhh okay yeah we'll change it. I see Ti as "blah I have to do this so I can make this decision I guess, but I'd like to just make the decision because I'll come to the same conclusion anyway after I take 3 hours building the model."

I meant reliability in different sense, to be honest, as in "less impulsive, more deliberate".

I think the deciding factors for Ti-LII vs. Ti-ILE will be how impulsive you are, and whether you seem to value expression and activation or harmony with your environment more. This can be a tricky thing to evaluate, so think on it a little, and maybe we'll see.

Impulsiveness - this is a challenge. In my life I've been very impulsive day to day in small things, but have had a lot of external influences (strict parenting, strict school environments, and self-editing which I don't think is healthy/normal for me) which have trained me not to be. For instance, I've been interested in the stock market for a while, and I know in my head "buy and hold is the best long term solution for reliable returns and minimal effort", but what I really want is to day trade constantly. These two battle it out and I end up buying really great long term stocks, then selling a day or two later for a small gain or in fear of a small loss. I later watch the stock run up as I initially predicted it would over time, and miss out because I didn't buy and hold.

When it comes to "Big" life decisions, I chose my most recent job (which I quit because it was an extremely EJ culture), based essentially on "I don't have any other offers this good, I'm tired of interviewing, and I've never been to this state before. The job seems fairly easy, so why not?" Now that I've left, I've outlined my ideal job as very similar to what I did when I was into ebay: each day I would get up and do whatever I felt like that day based on opportunities I found for aquiring merchandise, anything I needed to pack and ship, and whether I felt like listing anything from the pile in my living room. It was very impulsive and I loved it.

My favorite activities are with a small group, when we randomly decide to go do bowling or to 3 different people's houses, or just drive around the countryside for a few hours - very P environments. With Js its like "on the agenda we will eat at this time, watch this movie, talk for exactly 30 minutes after, then you will leave promptly at this time". I go "hey does anyone want to play this game?" "No, it's not on the agenda, retard."

[diljs]

ILE sounds more likely, IMO. VI-wise you remind me somewhat of David Byrne, who is a pretty solid LII-Ne, IMO, but everything else makes me lean ILE.

Wow, this guy. Never heard of him before he was mentioned here. I checked out some videos of him, and his movements are VERY similar to the way I acted on camera the first few times. His hand movements and posture, the way he grabs the water glass, I definitely use the same when nervous. The part where he describes himself a little after 1 minute in are very similar to what I've been saying as well.

[ScanDave]

You give off a LII vibe to me. Not just with comparing you to David Byrne, but an LII I used to work with.






This guy I worked with was very impulsive too. But I related that to having his hidden agenda in overdrive. Like if he saw a piece of technology he thought was interesting, he would buy it right away to try it. Then if he did not like it he would sell it or return it. Another time when Vista first released, he brought his PC to work just to install it because he could not wait to get home. Because waiting in his words "Would drive him nuts." So I think with him the impulsiveness with not be able to satisfy his sensations in the moment. He also seemed to be impulsive in matters pretainting to hobbies or interest. I just thought he was being rigid even though he was being impulsive. I mention this because, Diljs, I'm comparing it to how you see yourself as impulsive. Usually what I think of as common ILE impulsivity is starting something of interest, then dropping/forgetting that interest for an entirely new interest that is not related to the previous interest. Basically ILE hops from planet to planet, while LII stays on the home planet and decides to move to a bigger house so the ESE can have more space to decorate.

Also he was never satisfied with the way things are, and always thought they could better or more to his liking.

All that crap aside. I think a question should be asked is "How do you handle confrontation?" I have found ILE and LII handle confrontation much differently. That is usually how I tell the difference besides body langauge.

[diljs]

I uploaded a couple of videos here

[diljs]

You give off a LII vibe to me. Not just with comparing you to David Byrne, but an LII I used to work with.

This guy I worked with was very impulsive too. But I related that to having his hidden agenda in overdrive. Like if he saw a piece of technology he thought was interesting, he would buy it right away to try it. Then if he did not like it he would sell it or return it. Another time when Vista first released, he brought his PC to work just to install it because he could not wait to get home. Because waiting in his words "Would drive him nuts." So I think with him the impulsiveness with not be able to satisfy his sensations in the moment. He also seemed to be impulsive in matters pretainting to hobbies or interest. I just thought he was being rigid even though he was being impulsive. I mention this because, Diljs, I'm comparing it to how you see yourself as impulsive. Usually what I think of as common ILE impulsivity is starting something of interest, then dropping/forgetting that interest for an entirely new interest that is not related to the previous interest. Basically ILE hops from planet to planet, while LII stays on the home planet and decides to move to a bigger house so the ESE can have more space to decorate.

Also he was never satisfied with the way things are, and always thought they could better or more to his liking.

All that crap aside. I think a question should be asked is "How do you handle confrontation?" I have found ILE and LII handle confrontation much differently. That is usually how I tell the difference besides body langauge.

Hmm, that's interesting I used to buy things, wonder why I bought them, then resell them. I tend to be interested in something, forget about it, then come back to it.

On confrontation, I'm not a fan. I will try to change the subject, make a joke, or leave if those don't work. I rarely argue unless it's in defense of someone who is being unjustly attacked.

[Phaedrus]

@ ScanDave
That guy does not look like a LII. He looks more like an ILI. What have you done to rule out the ILI as a possible type for him?

[ScanDave]

Hmm, that's interesting I used to buy things, wonder why I bought them, then resell them. I tend to be interested in something, forget about it, then come back to it.

On confrontation, I'm not a fan. I will try to change the subject, make a joke, or leave if those don't work. I rarely argue unless it's in defense of someone who is being unjustly attacked.

I think you are LII from the video. But I am only comparing that because your body language and the manner you speak of things is similar to the dude I worked with. There heavy focus on Ti too. But I am not going to rule out ILE on that alone.

As far as ILE interest goes, its rare a ILE will go back to an old interest. The exception is if there is a new way of looking at said interest.

When it comes to confrontation, I have notice ILEs are able to handle confrontation a lot better than LII. ILE will not be afraid to argue and argue. However when they see there is little point in what is being argue, they just leave to cool off for a bit. LII I have notice will hide from a confrontation, especially if they feel overpowered. They will hardly ever put themselves in the middle of a confrontation either. I'm not speaking of debating with someone, which LIIs are great at. Moreso heated arguements, with physical aspects.

As for an example. The LII I posted above when an angry customer came in he would hide in the back room and tell me to go talk to him or her. Another time he got in a heated arguement with our ESTp co-worker, it got to the point where the ESTp was willing to get phsyically confrontational, the LII stopped agrueing. The LII then went to the back room and never came back out. When he came back out he said he was leaving early. The ESTp said to him "Stop acting like a girl." The next week the LII transfered to another store.

[Phaedrus]

I think you are LII from the video. But I am only comparing that because your body language and the manner you speak of things is similar to the dude I worked with.

That strengthens my hypothesis that your co-worker is not a LII.

There heavy focus on Ti too. But I am not going to rule out ILE on that alone.

ILE is a fact. As I said in the other thread, diljs body language and manner of speaking is similar to the ILE poker player Daniel Negreanu.

[redbaron]

chuckling that you've never heard of David Byrne....there are so many young ones on this forum.

[ScanDave]

@ ScanDave
That guy does not look like a LII. He looks more like an ILI. What have you done to rule out the ILI as a possible type for him?

I actually thought he was ILI at one point. I have never ruled it out completely. But how he handles Se was just pitiful. And there are things I would consider Si hidden agenda, enjoying food pleasure very much but not totally satisfied with his own efforts. Then he would do what I consider Fe dual seeking. Such as coming up to me asking "Where is your smile today." Or taking boxes and wearing them and prentending he was a robot to try and get a laugh.

Also the only ones that got along with him at work were me, and the assistent manager who typed as ESE. His girlfriend is a Alpha SF for sure.

The only thing I found was odd was his almost totally lack of understanding for belief systems outside his own. He was a pretty bright guy but his world views were very political. Basically, I got the impression he did uphold a lot of his beliefs but ran off at the mouth anyway because they were expected of whatever role he saw himself. For instance, he saw a guy with a nice watch and told the guy so. He said to me "I did not mean to covet the guy's possession but he had a real nice watch." And he only says this kind of stuff because he wants people to see him a devout Catholic. However he has no problems breaking these kind of rules at his convience. Even at work he would break rules. He would get chewed out all the time.

Probably not all to it. But all I can think of right now as far as why I went with LII.