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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Winterpark

    Recently I've noticed this change from an unassuming, chilled, amiable guy to this SLE-type character that reminds me of myself. On top of this, at least one individual has explained at some point to me during my time here that SLI is unlikely for Winterpark. I'm bringing his type under discussion.

    I'm bringing your type under discussion, Winterpark.

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    I have noticed absolutely zero change in winterpark.
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    Unassuming, chilled, and amiable are not words that I would use to describe winterpark. Having said that, I don't really have an opinion on his type.

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    i'm increasingly of the impression that none of winterpark, jessica, or lokivanguard are SLI (all of them basically are looking more and more like beta STs to me), and that people around here have no concept of what an SLI is.

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    SLIs don't exist.

    I like Winterpark.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i'm increasingly of the impression that none of winterpark, jessica, or lokivanguard are SLI (all of them basically are looking more and more like beta STs to me), and that people around here have no concept of what an SLI is.
    The fact that in your room there aren't people except you, doesn't mean people don't actually exist.
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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    See, niff, the problem I have with that sentiment is that a lot of those have been described as LSIs, which I completely disagree with. For example, Nicole, who is clearly not IJ. She gives off the impression of an IP far better than she does an IJ. Not only this, but the fundamentals of the LSI and the fundamentals of Nicole are pretty much not compatible. With Luis, I can see the case for Beta, but I still don't think he has a focus on Se like, for example, I do. Perhaps you could say his Se looks more like it does in Herzy.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    wtf is your point? i'm not sure i even get what you're trying to get at with this.
    He's claiming that niffweed needs to get out more and experience life to understand what human beings are truly like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    wtf is your point? i'm not sure i even get what you're trying to get at with this.
    It's absolutely idiotic to suggest that noone of the people self-typing as SLIs aren't SLIs because of some strange reason. They know themselves better than niffweed knows them, and suggesting that "nobody has a clue about X" is completely counterproductive for any discussion on the matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    See, niff, the problem I have with that sentiment is that a lot of those have been described as LSIs, which I completely disagree with. For example, Nicole, who is clearly not IJ. She gives off the impression of an IP far better than she does an IJ. Not only this, but the fundamentals of the LSI and the fundamentals of Nicole are pretty much not compatible. With Luis, I can see the case for Beta, but I still don't think he has a focus on Se like, for example, I do. Perhaps you could say his Se looks more like it does in Herzy.
    i'd probably call both jessica and winterpark SLEs rather than LSIs at this point. lv probably the same, actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    It's absolutely idiotic to suggest that noone of the people self-typing as SLIs aren't SLIs because of some strange reason. They know themselves better than niffweed knows them, and suggesting that "nobody has a clue about X" is completely counterproductive for any discussion on the matter.

    at this point i don't think i respect your opinions enough to deal with your objections.

    fuck off and leave me alone.

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    suffice to say, none of jessica/winterpark/lokivanguard appear to have an ounce of delta values or any particular interest in Si.

    the way that people deal with users such as smccosker, an obvious SLE, also suggests to me that many people see SLIs as something of introverted SLEs, much like the MBTI ISTP is often described. needless to say i think that it is far more reasonable to say that these people are comparatively reserved or not socially outgoing SLEs rather than to suggest that they have any Si or delta-ness at all.

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    Anyone who has an opinion and enjoys sensory things is labeled SLE. It's hilarious someone would even put that label on me. Hilarious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    fabio, you're an idiot. there is nothing wrong with questioning someone's self-typing, especially when most people don't give a shit to go beyond, "i'm 'i' because i need time to myself," or wtfever. it's not like questioning winterpark's self-typing somehow changes it, it only verifies whether it's actually correct heh.
    There is everything wrong because only the person knows himself the best. It's even wrong when I do it, even if sometimes my fingers slip. It wouldn't be wrong if, say, the sister of a given user came here and said "see I know you well and have seen you in many life situations and interacted with your friends bla bla". We totally lack enough factual information to object the self-type of people that have been here for a decent time and thus know the matter at least decently.

    suffice to say, none of jessica/winterpark/lokivanguard appear to have an ounce of delta values or any particular interest in Si.
    How, how dare you tell other people what they value and have interest in? In this sense, you are exactly alike Phaedrus telling others which enneagram type they must be. I'm thinking then we should actually believe his self-type as INTp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    suffice to say, none of jessica/winterpark/lokivanguard appear to have an ounce of delta values or any particular interest in Si.
    I'm having a little trouble buying this. If Jessica had in her ego, wouldn't she be more receptive to public demonstrations of , rather than the 'repulsed' feeling she gets from watching other probable SLEs use it, like Chelsea Handler, for instance (perhaps because it's her 7th 'private' function)?'

    Just by reading his posts, including a recent thread topic of his, Loki V appears to value as a 5th function (something he seeks and will occasionally produce himself) more so than he ignors it.

    Is there any other reason you perceive him to be Se/Ti? Cause I'm not seeing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    the way that people deal with users such as smccosker, an obvious SLE...
    This could potentially have more to do with Gamma perceptions of how Deltas treat/react to others.

    Could you please elaborate more on how "smccosker" was 'dealt' with?
    Last edited by Nebuchadnezzar; 08-10-2008 at 08:40 PM.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    delta values or any particular interest in Si
    What types of behaviour would you charactorises as delta values and Si manifested in SLIs? What should you be expecting from a SLI?

    Edit: Also do you have any examples of this behaviour?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeAnte View Post
    I'm having a little trouble buying this. If Jessica had in her ego, wouldn't she be more receptive to public demonstrations of , rather than the 'repulsed' feeling she gets from watching other probable SLEs use it, like Chelsea Handler, for instance (perhaps because it's her 7th 'private' function)?'
    i won't pretend to know what type chelsea handler is. but i don't see this as being particularly pertinent; an SLI might actually be more inclined to see veritable displays of Se as merely stupid. overall this is a very weak point.

    Just by reading his posts, including a recent thread topic of his, Loki V appears to value as a 5th function (something he seeks and will occasionally produce himself) more so than he ignors it.
    really? why? i don't see that at all.

    Is there any other reason you perceive him to be Se/Ti? Cause I'm not seeing it.
    he appears unusually socially inclined and seems very focused towards and seems to prefer Fe environments (such as the stickam chats; this is highly characteristic of jessica as well). lokivanguard has sort of a jim rome flavor to his interactions as far as sort of expecting people to abide by certain social standards. both jessica and lokivanguard seem to see me as an overly cerebral loser who never gets out to actually do anything -- in addition to this seeming rather typical to me coming from certain SLEs IRL, it seems extremely different from the way that i would be perceived by an Fe-ignorant SLI, as well as from people on this forum who seem to be more veritable SLIs (force my hand, electric/leckysupport, snegledmaca, possibly kioshi, who i'm sort of inclined to see as a snegledmaca clone).


    the ignorance and blind adherence to various typings for me is rather painful -- even if i'm full of shit, which i sometimes am but i really don't think i am in this case.


    This could potentially have more to do with Gamma perceptions of how Deltas treat/react to others.

    Could you please elaborate more on how "smccosker" was 'dealt' with?
    several people appeared to be very seriously arguing that smccosker was a likely SLI, including most prominently juju. other people tended to chime in with comments like "SLI makes sense for you."

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    Quote Originally Posted by leckysupport View Post
    What types of behaviour would you charactorises as delta values and Si manifested in SLIs? What should you be expecting from a SLI?

    Edit: Also do you have any examples of this behaviour?
    i believe my dad is SLI, and he is rather extremely different from the introverted, socially-involved, Se-relaxed sort of game that lv, jessica, and winterpark tend to play.

    i've talked about my dad at length in other threads, including here and here.


    essentially, my dad is far less of a social animal, completely uninterested in things such as jessica's Se pursuits (ie, the gambling/debauchery thing, which, contrary to popular belief, is highly relevant). instead, he expends his sensory energy on taking these big backpacking trips to the middle of nowhere by himself for a month at a time. he actually demonstrates competent use of Te as well as Si in his sort of protection of his own (extremely eccentric and nontraditional, i might add) lifestyle. he also -- from my perspective -- is far less prejudiced, unfriendly, and unpleasant to people like myself who do not abide by beta-oriented standards for interaction like lokivanguard. you can argue that this is facetious all you want, but this is type related.


    if people have further productive questions, like the ones above, i'm happy to clarify my interpretations or answer them, but if people wish to turn this into a bickerfest, i'm uninterested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i won't pretend to know what type chelsea handler is. but i don't see this as being particularly pertinent; an SLI might actually be more inclined to see veritable displays of Se as merely stupid. overall this is a very weak point.
    But surely a female SLE wouldn't tend to regard another female's (even of an undetermined type) public display of as disgusting and repulsive, would they?

    Or do you think that's possibly the difference between a reserved and non-reserved SLE's perceptions on acceptable usage?

    I'm not on Stickam and agree about Loki V appearing more socially inclined, but I also know that he's mentioned being perceived differently in person than over the internet back when people were questioning SEI as a possibility for him.

    Loki V's recent topic about the possibility of water on mars (including comments he made inside that thread) struck me as rather -ish.

    I'll make a point to read more of his posts, but I'm just not seeing in his ego being projected as clearly as I've seen it from others such as Herzy or even discojoe.

    Any preference for Fe atmoshperes exhibited by Loki V are easily much more favorable to Alpha-Fe than Beta Fe.

    But I really haven't seen sufficient evidence to strongly question him being Delta.

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    several people appeared to be very seriously arguing that smccosker was a likely SLI, including most prominently juju. other people tended to chime in with comments like "SLI makes sense for you."
    After going back and reading some of smccosker's earlier posts, I was about to edit my own and ask if it was because you view smccosker as an 'obvious' SLE, while other Deltas (JuJu, Winterpark) thought he was more obviously SLI?

    I guess that was your reasoning.
    Last edited by Nebuchadnezzar; 08-10-2008 at 10:54 PM.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    Niffweed has some good points.


    oh dear god. It continues..

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    As a for instance, user name iannau and I have been good friends long before joining this forum, we're certain from our interactions that we are the same type (SLI) It's probably looks like we are rather different (I imagine) on the forum, which in itself shows that ascertaining ones type, unless they talk about themselves to a reasonable depth, can often be a tricky thing to do on internet.

    LokiV, on our smaller interaction, seems like SLI identical vibes to me also. I can't comment on other people here but it's not unreasonable to say it may be a similar case also.

    To say that ISTp has no interest in socialising for instance isn't really the case. Everyone needs human contact to varying degrees.. Not all ISTp's take off on their own for a month long back packing trip due to real life commitments, but you can be sure they'd want to, maybe even planning to at some point.

    In terms of using Fe, showing some outward signs of Fe and actually having ego Fe are two different things of course.

    I just wanted to make some observations here, and how for reasons mentioned, there can be deeper counter reasons.

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    The danger about typing by comparing all SLIs to your dad is that not all SLIs are going to have the same behavior. I've wondered if LV could be a different type because he communicates so differently than my husband, whom I'm sure is an SLI. But I remind myself that my husband isn't an archetype or anything. But LV would be the one of your group I'd wonder about the most. Though I find myself wondering if he could be ISFp rather than a Beta type. I haven't seen him on stickcam or whatever though so you have more to go on. I just get a bit of an Fe-vibe or something sometimes. Like I feel a warmth in the way he communicates that reminds me of ISFps. I've been married to my husband for 10 years and have one and a half kids with him and he still doesn't communicate that warmly with me. I agree LV might not be ISTp anyway.

    As for Jessica, I see plenty of Si in her desire to fulfil any sensory needs she has. And I know that you don't see that as evidence of ego-block Si. But my husband did go through a period like that at one point when he was unhappy in his job and lonely, and as I recall Jessica is going through some similar things. Again, I need to step back and stop comparing her to my husband, but I'm thinking out loud and that's part of my thought process. She seems like she could be an SLI going through a rough patch. I don't think it's typical of an SLI whose life is balanced. One thing that would make me wonder about her being SLI is that she seems to like arguing with people around here (like discojoe for instance) and most SLIs I know IRL would just disengage instead of continuing an argument. But she could just be bored and that could amuse her, and maybe the dynamics are different online than IRL. I still think she's more likely SLI than anything else.

    I haven't developed a strong opinion about Winterpark's type.

    I keep my mind open to all typings here though. I bet at least 1/3 of people here are mistyped and they could be among them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i'm increasingly of the impression that none of winterpark, jessica, or lokivanguard are SLI (all of them basically are looking more and more like beta STs to me), and that people around here have no concept of what an SLI is.
    I share your sentiments. And would like to extend it to IEE-s as well.

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    I wanted to add that I have a hard time seeing Jessica as being the dual of IEIs.

    Jessica's reactions to male IEI's 'emotional displays' that I have witnessed (once in an old thread about her ex-boyfriend and another in B&D's thread about SLE-IEI duality) have also reflected intense repulsion and lack of patience in those matters as well as interest in discussing them at length.

    Would that normally apply to an SLE's response to IEIs?

    I have also noticed that on occasions where Jessica will make posts talking about group activities she's been to, she will mention the drinking and eating (sensory thrills) as being the most fun, while often making it a point to mention she had fun "despite" being surrounded by all of the other people (weak Fe?).

    I also don't see Jessica as promoting herself as the center of attention in loud, expressive Beta-Fe atmospheres, but more interested in the possibility of who she might meet at group activities or the food, etc.

    EDITED.
    Last edited by Nebuchadnezzar; 08-10-2008 at 10:54 PM.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    edit, who cares

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    I'm sorry for making you sound like a drunk too. "Fulfilling every sensory need she has" is overstatement. There's a theme of you liking to feel good anyway.
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    I've made it clear on more than one occassion I find it very offensive when people make it seem like all i care about is alcohol and gambling and making it seem like i'm a drunk. Whatever. I'm done asking for common courtesy.

    And for people to sit behind a computer screen and analyze who they think i am based on words on a message board is just ***ing ridiculous. No one knows me, all you know about me is what I choose to show....which is nothing. Stop trying to type me people, it doesn't matter. I am who I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    The danger about typing by comparing all SLIs to your dad is that not all SLIs are going to have the same behavior.
    i am acutely aware of that. but even so, i think that his experience is infinitely more appropriate to SLI and Si-focused than that of any of these three.

    But LV would be the one of your group I'd wonder about the most. Though I find myself wondering if he could be ISFp rather than a Beta type.
    that is certainly a reasonable suggestion, and one which i previously entertained. at this point i think i like beta ST better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    I've wondered if LV could be a different type because he communicates so differently than my husband, whom I'm sure is an SLI. But I remind myself that my husband isn't an archetype or anything. But LV would be the one of your group I'd wonder about the most. Though I find myself wondering if he could be ISFp rather than a Beta type. I haven't seen him on stickcam or whatever though so you have more to go on. I just get a bit of an Fe-vibe or something sometimes. Like I feel a warmth in the way he communicates that reminds me of ISFps. I've been married to my husband for 10 years and have one and a half kids with him and he still doesn't communicate that warmly with me. I agree LV might not be ISTp anyway.
    Could this be Si subtype vs. Te subtype? I think I've heard you mention your husband is Te sub.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I'm bringing your type under discussion, Winterpark.
    Cool man, I don't mind. This sentence you directed at me (the one I am quoting) was not a necessity though, you're just repeating yourself. And thanks, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I have noticed absolutely zero change in winterpark.
    Thanks man, I can say the same about you.

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i'd probably call both jessica and winterpark SLEs rather than LSIs at this point. lv probably the same, actually.
    I am sure we all appreciate that very much. What you call us is of an extremely high importance to us and our self-growth.
    Last edited by Park; 08-11-2008 at 01:02 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    How, how dare you tell other people what they value and have interest in? In this sense, you are exactly alike Phaedrus telling others which enneagram type they must be. I'm thinking then we should actually believe his self-type as INTp.
    Yeah.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    What you call us is of an extremely high importance to us and our self-growth.
    it was never intended to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    i'm sort of wary of rationalizing too many behavioural differences away with subtypes. i mean, if he seems "more alpha" then it makes more sense that he'd be one, imo.
    The reason I said that is because the reasons given reminded me of how I've heard the subtype differences described. In other words, I don't think that what SM said is necessarily characteristic of alpha and could just as well describe someone that focuses more on Si, like an SLI-Si. This is how I've heard the subtype described, anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    it was never intended to be.
    well you've outdone yourself this time I guess. you 've reached a higher target than you could 've ever expected.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    The reason I said that is because the reasons given reminded me of how I've heard the subtype differences described. In other words, I don't think that what SM said is necessarily characteristic of alpha and could just as well describe someone that focuses more on Si, like an SLI-Si. This is how I've heard the subtype described, anyway.
    It could be a lot of things. I've wondered if it's just an Si-subtype vs. Te-subtype too. Or he could be Alpha. Or he could be something entirely different. When I've talked about my husband's hobbies - fixing cars, getting broken stuff and fixing it to make money, that kind of thing - LV has always PM'd me to ask more about how he does it and where he gets stuff, etc. My husband's hobbies have a real element of Te in them IMO. So that would point away from ISFp. But, like I said, there could be a lot of reasons for the differences I've noticed.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    It could be a lot of things. I've wondered if it's just an Si-subtype vs. Te-subtype too. Or he could be Alpha. Or he could be something entirely different. When I've talked about my husband's hobbies - fixing cars, getting broken stuff and fixing it to make money, that kind of thing - LV has always PM'd me to ask more about how he does it and where he gets stuff, etc. My husband's hobbies have a real element of Te in them IMO. So that would point away from ISFp. But, like I said, there could be a lot of reasons for the differences I've noticed.
    I agree there could be a lot of reasons, one being socialization and environmental influences. I've had a lot of interaction with LV and I know his hobbies are very much Si/Te. I think he shows higher competence in Fe than most SLIs, for several reasons, but I know he doesn't prefer it. The impression that people are refering to here is a pretty superficial one. Now that I know him better, I'm convinced he is SLI.
    Last edited by Sirena; 08-11-2008 at 03:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    suffice to say, none of jessica/winterpark/lokivanguard appear to have an ounce of delta values or any particular interest in Si.
    Incorrect. Only an idiot would think that. Are you an idiot or are you an idiot?


    - K.O. Phaedrus style.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    suffice to say, none of jessica/winterpark/lokivanguard appear to have an ounce of delta values or any particular interest in Si.

    the way that people deal with users such as smccosker, an obvious SLE, also suggests to me that many people see SLIs as something of introverted SLEs, much like the MBTI ISTP is often described. needless to say i think that it is far more reasonable to say that these people are comparatively reserved or not socially outgoing SLEs rather than to suggest that they have any Si or delta-ness at all.
    No offense Niffweed, but I've spoken with smccosker extensively now...

    I can see why, based on his picture and his opening salvo, ppl would type him SLE... But, let's be honest, it's a superficial typing unless you know the person... I've gotten to know him quite well.

    Smccosker is SLI--it is unambiguous too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JuJu View Post
    No offense Niffweed, but I've spoken with smccosker extensively now...

    I can see why, based on his picture and his opening salvo, ppl would type him SLE... But, let's be honest, it's a superficial typing unless you know the person... I've gotten to know him quite well.

    Smccosker is SLI--it is unambiguous too.
    you're a moron. i have talked to him a bit myself. and you're right; his typing is anything but ambiguous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    you're a moron.
    Not a very productive comment. I don't want to get into a name-calling match with you, Niffweed... Please try to keep it respectful.

    I'm gonna hang out with smccosker tomorrow, so we'll see... I'm not sure how you've communicated with him, but I've spoken with him many times on the phone, sometimes for hours...

    Has he ever told you about his interests? (SiTe) Described to you what he notices about ppl? (SiTe) Told you about his interactions with SLEs? (SiTe)

    To be honest, Niffweed, most of your typings of Delta STs are incorrect... snegledmaca as SLI..? kioshi? Now that I'm looking at them, almost all of your base Delta ST typings are off... Ever think you might be the one who's wrong?

    Jessica is SLI, as is Luis... Please try to be civil, as well.
    Last edited by JuJu; 08-11-2008 at 02:22 AM.

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