Results 1 to 30 of 30

Thread: American Beauty

  1. #1
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default American Beauty

    Lester: IEI
    Carolyn: ESE
    Jane: ILI
    Ricky: IEI, but almost like a strange Se ego hybrid; Lester reacts well to what seems to be his strong Se "you just quit your job like that? I think you just became my hero" etc.
    Angela: EIE
    Col. Frank Fitts: LSI
    Buddy: LSE
    Barbara Fitts: EII

    Some of those seem a bit off, but especially people like Lester I actually found pretty tough to type (although I think IEI isn't such a bad fit; he's clearly Se valuing, but weak in it, and he has these thoughts I'd attribute to Ni, like at the end of the film). Obviously Mrs. Fitts was pretty minor, but she still had enough screen time for me to care, and I think her relationship with her husband was evidently shit; so much so that they could easily be from opposing quadras, and the Colonel was definitely an LSI; a very good example of one, in fact. Jane I thought had weak, unvalued Fe, but that could just be because she's a moody teenager. However, I do think a) she reacted extremely poorly to her mother's Fe heavy way of life, and b) was Fi valuing (she seemed to be far more wary of those she hated and of those she loved than of anything else).

  2. #2
    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Space
    TIM
    Seer
    Posts
    12,810
    Mentioned
    368 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)

    Default

    I love this movie. I found the characters to be kind of difficult to type, but I'd say I agree with most of the ones you've listed. I do think that there is a chance Jane is IEI though, but I guess ILI can work.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

  3. #3
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    How does the closet homo have beta values though? Just explain that to me, because I'm confused. Honestly I don't have much experience with LSIs to know, but are you saying he's duals with the rather flamboyant, actor-y EIEs? Cause meh, I just don't see that. It's true, he hated his own homosexuality and probably anything 'diva-related' in his own persona, but I always viewed him as more Delta or even Gamma.

    I don't know. They ARE hard to type. I think the colonel was too fucked up it was hard to tell. Because him being an actual homosexual is too interwoven with messy gender roles on top of everything, which might be where you're getting your well-meaning but (maybe) faulty impressions.

    His wife being EII makes sense, I think.

    Oh and even if he did eventually come in terms with his gayness (and I think of Robert Reed here in a similiar light) I think he would be much better off with a person who continued to view his homosexuality as serious & 'epic' rather than light-hearted and 'pssh, it's no big deal.' I think it was more complicated than him simply hating his own gayness. I think ironically, he loved it too much.

    I think the whole concept of 'epic' is a beta quadra value but I'm not so sure on serious per se. That seems more gamma or delta. But I'm getting ahead of myself here.

  4. #4
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Oh this is a good vid:


  5. #5
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The best fucking movie ever. Whatever type is Lester, that'd be me. And Kevin Spacey is a fucking genius.

    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  6. #6
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I do think that there is a chance Jane is IEI though, but I guess ILI can work.
    Yeah, I agree with that. She was pretty tough to type, because she was pretty deadpan the whole way through.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    How does the closet homo have beta values though? Just explain that to me, because I'm confused.
    He was always rattling on about structure and discipline, Ti-related values. And I hardly think a Colonel would be Ne creative.

    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    Kevin Spacey [the actor] was previously typed SEI. What I know of him myself is consistent with that typing.
    I may be able to dig that typing. It could make some sense over IEI.

  7. #7
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Another type that has been suggested for Kevin Spacey in the past is SLI.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  8. #8
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    He was always rattling on about structure and discipline, Ti-related values.
    He wasn't psychologically/mentally healthy in the least bit though, so how is any of that relevance? In fact, he was written as a tortured victim who was never allowed to be his true self- and we never saw the real him, just a diluted/suburban view. If you take things matter-of-factly, I suppose on face value he's LSI but I doubt he was really like that. He was too much of a troubled individual to tell either way. (Which I realize might seem like I'm contradicting himself, as before I said I don't think he's totally opposite of himself just for the mere fact he's a closet case, but the point is we just don't know do we?)

    Therefore, I think he's untypeable.

  9. #9
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    He was always rattling on about structure and discipline, Ti-related values.
    He wasn't psychologically/mentally healthy in the least bit though, so how is any of that relevant? In fact, he was written as a tortured victim who was never allowed to be his true self- and we never saw the real him, just a diluted/suburban view. If you take things matter-of-factly, I suppose on face value he's LSI but we can't tell if he's really like that since he spent his whole life covering himself up. He was too much of a troubled individual to tell either way. (Which I realize might seem like I'm contradicting himself, as before I said I don't think he's totally opposite of himself just for the mere fact he's a closet case, but the point is we just don't know do we?)

    Therefore, I think he's untypeable.

  10. #10
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    The Spacey interview is towards the end of the first clip.)

    I have seen it. I think it mostly points towards creative. There wasn't much Si as I remember either.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  11. #11
    heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,722
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    carolyn is LIE. the reason the closet homo is typed LSI is because he is a typical LSI male movie stereotype(besides the homosexuality).
    asd

  12. #12
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    Posts
    14,945
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    "It was one of those days when it's a minute away from snowing and there's this electricity in the air, you can almost hear it. And this bag was stuck in the throat of this swan. For fifteen minutes it was there choking and gagging, fighting for its life. It was absolutely hilarious. I nearly died laughing. And that's the day I knew there was this entire life behind things, and...this incredibly benevolent force, that wanted me to know there was no reason to be afraid, ever. Video's a poor excuse, I know. But it helps me remember... and I need to remember... Sometimes there's so much beauty in the world I feel like I can't take it, like my heart's going to cave in."

  13. #13
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Subterranean View Post
    "It was one of those days when it's a minute away from snowing and there's this electricity in the air, you can almost hear it. And this bag was stuck in the throat of this swan. For fifteen minutes it was there choking and gagging, fighting for its life. It was absolutely hilarious. I nearly died laughing. And that's the day I knew there was this entire life behind things, and...this incredibly benevolent force, that wanted me to know there was no reason to be afraid, ever. Video's a poor excuse, I know. But it helps me remember... and I need to remember... Sometimes there's so much beauty in the world I feel like I can't take it, like my heart's going to cave in."
    Did you make the modifications?
    Last edited by Park; 08-14-2008 at 10:30 PM.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  14. #14
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heath View Post
    carolyn is LIE.
    She's far too concerned with Fe to have it as a role function. And does saying "honey, stop being weird" while having a massive fake grin on your face in a social situation come across as a typical LIE comment to you?

    the reason the closet homo is typed LSI is because he is a typical LSI male movie stereotype(besides the homosexuality).
    So what do you think he is?

  15. #15
    heath's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    5,722
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    She's far too concerned with Fe to have it as a role function. And does saying "honey, stop being weird" while having a massive fake grin on your face in a social situation come across as a typical LIE comment to you?



    So what do you think he is?
    \

    yeah i am watching the movie and i think carolyn is EIE as she doesn't seem to derive pleasure from the Si tasks in which she engages as much as she enjoys creating the image of the perfect perfect. I think the colonel is LSI definitely.
    asd

  16. #16
    misutii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    1,234
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Another type that has been suggested for Kevin Spacey in the past is SLI.
    yah i thought in this movie he was either ILI or SLI. And his wife was either ESE or LSE
    INFp-Ni

  17. #17
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    yah i thought in this movie he was either ILI or SLI.
    Maybe that's why I've identified with Lester so much, despite the fact that I was about his daughter's age when I saw it the first time. Anyhow, he is IP to the fullest.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  18. #18
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heath View Post
    yeah i am watching the movie and i think carolyn is EIE as she doesn't seem to derive pleasure from the Si tasks in which she engages as much as she enjoys creating the image of the perfect perfect.
    What about "Lester, don't spill beer on the couch"? Over-obsessiveness with Si.

    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    yah i thought in this movie he was either ILI or SLI. And his wife was either ESE or LSE
    If she is LSE, which I doubt she is, he couldn't be SLI. However, a conflicting or supervising relationship would make a lot of sense. They clearly have ridiculously different quadra values.

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,276
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Lester: ILI
    Carolyn: EIE
    Jane: EII
    Ricky Fitts: SLI
    Angela: SEE
    Colonel Fitts: LSI
    His wife: EII
    Buddy Kane: SLE
    Gay couple: ESE-LII?

    Those are my guesses. The end.
    IEE

  20. #20
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    Lester: ILI
    Carolyn: EIE
    Jane: EII
    Ricky Fitts: SLI
    Angela: SEE
    Colonel Fitts: LSI
    His wife: EII
    Buddy Kane: SLE
    Gay couple: ESE-LII?

    Those are my guesses. The end.
    Fuck that! How is Ricky SLI!? Did you not see the plastic bag in the wind scene? OVERLOAD OF FE! And the way Jane reacts - sorry, clear love of Fe.

  21. #21
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Did you not see the plastic bag in the wind scene? OVERLOAD OF FE! And the way Jane reacts - sorry, clear love of Fe.
    I wouldn't agree. It has nothing to do with Fe. If anything, I'd call that Si. Or even Ni. It's about enjoying the basic nature and essence of things, and deriving a sense of pleasure and ease (both to the senses and mentally) by observing the spontaneous happenings in the material word and relating them to one's own inner world of emotions and meanings.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  22. #22

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,276
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Fuck that! How is Ricky SLI!? Did you not see the plastic bag in the wind scene? OVERLOAD OF FE! And the way Jane reacts - sorry, clear love of Fe.
    LOL It's not like SLIs don't express any feeling ever. The reason he expressed it there was because he felt very close to Jane. And she realized that he was allowing her to be close to him. That's the only time he expresses anything in the whole movie, except anger when Angela attempts to manipulate and belittle Jane for choosing him over her.
    IEE

  23. #23
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    I wouldn't agree. It has nothing to do with Fe. If anything, I'd call that Si. Or even Ni. It's about enjoying the basic nature and essence of things, and deriving a sense of pleasure and ease (both to the senses and mentally) by observing the spontaneous happenings in the material word and relating them to one's own inner world of emotions and meanings.
    That's a kind of amalgamation of Si and Ni.

    I'd be happier with ILI than SLI.

    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    LOL It's not like SLIs don't express any feeling ever. The reason he expressed it there was because he felt very close to Jane. And she realized that he was allowing her to be close to him. That's the only time he expresses anything in the whole movie, except anger when Angela attempts to manipulate and belittle Jane for choosing him over her.
    Okay, fair enough.

  24. #24
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    3w4 sx/so
    Posts
    24,757
    Mentioned
    91 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Inner world of emotions has nothing to do with Fe?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  25. #25
    Park's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Beyond the blue horizon
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    13,088
    Mentioned
    164 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Inner world of emotions has nothing to do with Fe?
    OK, it does. But not with "OVERLOAD OF FE" or "clear love of Fe", or any type of Fe valuing for that matter. Not in the case of Ricky Fitss, anyhow.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

  26. #26
    Pretend like it's the weekend Banana Pancakes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    your backyard
    Posts
    798
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Lester: SEI is my best guess, obviously IP, but I think He's Si > Ni
    Carolyn: xIE - obviously EJ, but I don't think she's Si. She behaves in the way Si POLR behaves with things like the beer on the couch.
    Jane: ILI sounds good, but maybe xII would work.
    Ricky: IEI
    Angela: this is the cheerleader, right? SEE
    Col. Frank Fitts: LSI mos def
    Buddy: not sure who that is
    Barbara Fitts: EII
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

  27. #27
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Banana Pancakes View Post
    Buddy: not sure who that is
    He's the guy who shags Carolyn.

  28. #28

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    TIM
    IEI
    Posts
    1,178
    Mentioned
    22 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Lester Burnham SLI
    Carolyn Burnham LSI
    Jane Burnham SEi
    Angela Hayes IEI
    Ricky Fitts ILI
    Colonel Fitts LSE
    Barbara Fitts EII
    Buddy Kane LIE

  29. #29
    darya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    TIM
    EIE-Ni 3w4 sx
    Posts
    2,793
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    This is probably way off, but as far as I can remember:

    Lester: SLI (SEI?)
    Carolyn: LSI
    Jane : IxI
    Angela: EIE
    Ricky ILI

  30. #30
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,805
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    i remember thinking that this movie is one protracted 3w4 daydream, then I've decided to look up the director Sam Mendes and the screenwriter Alan Ball and it all became clear. rather heavy sp+soc and 3w4 imprints in the storyline and in the filming.

    Lester: SEI (ILI/SLI could also work) sp-first
    Carolyn: ESE sp/so (7?)
    Jane: SEI sp/so
    Angela: SEE-Fi
    Ricky: LII-Ti 3w4
    Colonel Fitts: LSE
    his wife, Barbara: IEE-Fi
    Buddy: 3w4

    http://megashare.info/watch-american...-online-TVRZeg

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •