INTjs Si/Se and training for the cold

[liveandletlive]

ive read in intj descriptions about they "train themselves for the cold." this sounds kind of -ish to me... do intjs relate to this? what does the description mean by this?

[Logos]

I'm going to assume she is talking about this bit in an LII description:

3. Ascetic. He appears extremely uncompromising, often looks down with a piercing look from under his philosopher’s forehead. He toughens himself, training for the cold, starvation, losses and disapproval of others. The only aspect where he willingly concedes to his partner is the issue of dressing, taste and routine chores. The necessity to be responsible for these things irritates him. Usually he even does not notice the quality of his clothing. He does not tolerate orders. His dual The Bonvivant, as if being aware of that, involves him into work not by direct orders but begins to fuss about, to make a lot of unnecessary movements – then The Analyst gets involved, and the work goes rapidly, logically and soundly. He himself does not show much initiative, is reclusive and silent.

[munenori2]

ive read in intj descriptions about they "train themselves for the cold." this sounds kind of -ish to me... do intjs relate to this? what does the description mean by this?

My brother quite literally does this. Not in a devoted sense, but he likes to wear summer clothes year round and gets a kick out of being able to endure the cold. I used to follow his lead in this respect, but being warm is a very nice feeling.

[FlameReborn]

::frown;; I did that... I've changed a lot this summmer though. I liked to go out in snow in a light jacket, or sometimes just in a T-shirt. There were probably multiple reasons why I did that... I knew I would be iin buildings most of the time, why did it matter? And I loved the internal battle with the elements, so to speak. It was more interesting and adventurous than being all warm and snug in a coat.

My father used to get pissed. My friend thought it was pointless. "But you don't HAVE to be cold," he'd be like. And I'd be like, "But I LIKE it. I like the mental battle." And he'd just shake his head, obviously thinking i just wanted to be touugh.

I thought his complete not getting it odd... He usually picks up on my viewpoint very quickly, even if we bounce off at angles.

[FlameReborn]

I don't go out enough to be sure... but extreme heat I think makes me feel really drowsy. Humidity doubles this effect.

or maybe it could be my being about 30-40 pounds underweight.

(psst, liveandletlive... Don't be jealous, seriously.)

[Phaedrus]

Not that I am at all LII, but was the phrase written in a literal context or was the statement figurative?

The phrase is meant literally, and it refers directly to the life of Immanuel Kant. Almost every detail in that LII type description refers to events in Kant's personal life.

[BLauritson]

In a way I could kind of see arguments for either Se or Si motivations behind this, but I haven't really fleshed it out well enough in my head yet to go into detail. Perhaps I may return later. Perhaps I may forget entirely about the thread. Perhaps I might get run over tomorrow morning and be inactive on the forum for 6 months. But I doubt that'll happen. I'm too lucky.

[munenori2]

But I doubt that'll happen. I'm too lucky.

Jinxed

[tereg]

This thread is making me laugh for unrelated, strongly ironic reasons.

[Phaedrus]

This thread is making me laugh for unrelated, strongly ironic reasons.

Let's all join the joy together then and say: LOOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!!!

[tereg]

Let's all join the joy together then and say: LOOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!!!

Do you know what I'm referring to?

[Phaedrus]

Do you know what I'm referring to?

No. That is worth another LOOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!!!, don't you think?

[tereg]

No. That is worth another LOOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!!!, don't you think?

Sure, ok.

[Ezra]

ive read in intj descriptions about they "train themselves for the cold." this sounds kind of -ish to me... do intjs relate to this? what does the description mean by this?

Bullshit coming from Igor Weisband. Ignore it.

[Exodus]

^ Yeah, probably. Although, like mun's brother I used to wear shorts almost year-round...maybe it is type-related? Do any other LIIs identify?

[krieger]

^ Yeah, probably. Although, like mun's brother I used to wear shorts almost year-round...maybe it is type-related? Do any other LIIs identify?

As a matter of fact, yes. I wore shorts through autumn and sometimes even winter around age 7/8. I still take a long time to get accustomed to clothes and wear the clothes that I have grown into longer than most people consider appropriate.

[Logos]

^ Yeah, probably. Although, like mun's brother I used to wear shorts almost year-round...maybe it is type-related? Do any other LIIs identify?

Not necessarily to this length. I do not train myself to wear shorts year round, since I happen to like pants. When it is cold and I am clearly freezing, I do not complain about it or make a big deal out of it. But this is what most would call "haven't got enough sense to come out of the rain" sort of behavior.

[Ms. Kensington]

i do get hot rather easily and wear the same clothes year round.

danielle, yeah i do think LIIs are ascetic, and get off on thinking they can withstand shit from the outside world or emotionally.

[intjguy]

I walk around in my underwear with people telling me "put something on or you'll catch a cold" everyday. "Aren't you cold?" is something I've heard at least a thousand times. Sometimes my body heat is so hot it disturbs people sitting next to me like in a filled backseat of a car. And I only weigh 135lbs

[munenori2]

You sure it wasn't the 135 lb guy in his underwear wedged between them?

[MysticSonic]

I don't find myself doing this at all, although I am rather impervious to changes in temperature, never wearing a very heavy coat during the winter. I will layer up, though. This is actually somewhat of a recent development, as before I used to be extremely sensitive to temperature. Interesting how something like that can change.

What I can't stand is being wet or the air feeling damn and humid. Yuck.

[Ezra]

I think "training for the cold" is metaphorical, not literal.

FWIW I used to wear shorts and forgo coats or jackets much of the year as well. (Now I wear work-appropriate pants more often, but I still forgo the rest often.) I saw it as a form of "rationing" on my own terms.

FTR I wore a coat yesterday.

[Ellis]

ive read in intj descriptions about they "train themselves for the cold." this sounds kind of -ish to me... do intjs relate to this? what does the description mean by this?

I relate to it, figuratively.

It comes about from a mentality of scarcity. I believe that INTj's prepare to live with few resources (income, support from others) because they feel they don't have power over their environment.

Saving, doing with less, and detachment are the most dependable defenses against unpredictable threats to seemingly fragile emotions and ego. After all, they only involve control of oneself.

With weak Se and F, INTj's doubt their ability to influence others or the surroundings. Going 'Te' to manipulate a situation to one's benefit is seen as too risky and even distasteful (trying to cheat the natural laws gets back at you eventually).

Interestingly, the INTj seems to share this trait, preparing oneself for the harshness of reality, with Se leading types. The difference is that the Se POLR type has an exaggerated fear and defensiveness towards outside 'bad things that might happen', even if those things have never happened to them.

While Se types, to my impression, learn caution only through hard won experience. They are expanding and pushing the boundaries, until they eventually have to face elements they can't control.

[Brilliand]

^ Yeah, probably. Although, like mun's brother I used to wear shorts almost year-round...maybe it is type-related? Do any other LIIs identify?

I wore shorts year-round until I gave them up to be more consistent with my wish that women wouldn't wear shorts. (I felt like a hypocrite drawing that distinction between men and women, even though no one else acted on it.) You won't catch me in shorts nowadays. Well... even someone that would catch me in the first place wouldn't catch me in shorts.

Oddly, I now avoid cold more diligently than anyone around me, even going so far as to wear a coat everywhere.

[Wynch]

I wore shorts year-round until I gave them up to be more consistent with my wish that women wouldn't wear shorts. (I felt like a hypocrite drawing that distinction between men and women, even though no one else acted on it.) You won't catch me in shorts nowadays. Well... even someone that would catch me in the first place wouldn't catch me in shorts.

Oddly, I now avoid cold more diligently than anyone around me, even going so far as to wear a coat everywhere.

Wait, what??

I always wear pants but I don't wear pants or anything more then a dress shirt very often. I wear a jacket almost all the time though if I'm cold since I like the way jackets look and have quite a few. I own 0 winter clothing, my idea of winter clothing is a jacket.

It occurs to me that none of you who claim to wear shorts in the winter, or have little in the way of winter clothing, have experienced real cold. The kind that freezes uncovered skin in minutes. You would literally die here.

[munenori2]

Well, my brother would do it even in single digit weather (he would put on pants and wear a jacket if it broke the zero barrier) which, granted, is basically a Canadian summer day.

[Wynch]

this can be dangerous if say, your transportation breaks down for some time. i value minimalism most of the time, but there are healthy limits. (i live in the north, too.)

Definitely agree.

[munenori2]

this can be dangerous if say, your transportation breaks down for some time. i value minimalism most of the time, but there are healthy limits. (i live in the north, too.)

That's what my dad would always say while my brother would smile and joke about all the ways he could think of to stay warm, like slaying deer with tire iron boomerangs and hopping inside while he waited for a tow to arrive.

[munenori2]

I think munenori is some kind of demigod.

+10 <3

Aw thanks, I'll make sure you two don't die in the impending flood/zombie apocalypse. Better get to building that boat though.

[Brilliand]

Wait, what??

Avoiding lust is more difficult with women around wearing shorts. All those sexy legs... It doesn't help with keeping my thoughts pure. For a little while I tried to reward the women who wore long pants by looking at them while studiously avoiding those who wore shorts, on the grounds that they were looking for attention, but I quit on the grounds that the women wearing long pants might not like being stared at (which defeats my purpose). I still tend to avoid women in shorts.

I understand now that many women wear shorts to keep cool in the summer, but that seems like a poor excuse...

[MysticSonic]

Avoiding lust is more difficult with women around wearing shorts. All those sexy legs... It doesn't help with keeping my thoughts pure. For a little while I tried to reward the women who wore long pants by looking at them while studiously avoiding those who wore shorts, on the grounds that they were looking for attention, but I quit on the grounds that the women wearing long pants might not like being stared at (which defeats my purpose). I still tend to avoid women in shorts.

I understand now that many women wear shorts to keep cool in the summer, but that seems like a poor excuse...

I understand you're religious, but I can't help but rage when I read this.

[RSV3]

I think there is some validity to the literal interpretation of the statement. I almost purposefully dress one level below what I should be wearing every day during the winter (e.g., wearing just a t-shirt when I should be wearing at least a jacket). For some reason, it's oddly satisfying, maybe because it gives me momentary control over my mobilizing function? Who knows.

[munenori2]

I understand you're religious, but I can't help but rage when I read this.

lol no joke

[Brilliand]

I understand you're religious, but I can't help but rage when I read this.

Could we discuss why? In my mind it's a question of dressing modestly vs. keeping cool, and there isn't much competition between those. What other variables do you see?

Now, if you're mad about the staring at girls in long pants to reward them for wearing long pants, I'll agree that was ridiculous; not everything I've done in the past was good. Fortunately, I don't think anyone even noticed.

[Brilliand]

You weren't staring at them to reward them. You were staring at them to reward yourself.

I don't see how that fits. It was an attempt at manipulation; I didn't get any gratification out of it, except perhaps the hope that someday all women would wear long pants (or dresses; I had/have nothing against those).

[MysticSonic]

Could we discuss why? In my mind it's a question of dressing modestly vs. keeping cool, and there isn't much competition between those. What other variables do you see?

Now, if you're mad about the staring at girls in long pants to reward them for wearing long pants, I'll agree that was ridiculous; not everything I've done in the past was good. Fortunately, I don't think anyone even noticed.

Coming from a very non-religious, socially liberal perspective, I find the idea that a girl wearing shorts is being immodest in a way that is _wrong_ to be relatively repulsive and socially backwards. I understand that you are not outright saying it is wrong, but obviously your contention with the immodest is precipitated by some sort of thought that the act itself is in someway wrong, and if you don't mind, I feel myself at the liberty to infer that you are asserting that what they are doing is "sinful" in some manner, or at the very least not conducive to holy thoughts of your own. I mean, if you are religious and authentically feel compelled toward the religion you are compelled to, you are without a doubt justified in believing as you do and feeling that way about shorts in general. You've done nothing wrong(a word of contention here I understand, but of course this is from my secular perspective), but just the very thought of supporting that manner of thinking is, again, repulsive to me.

[Brilliand]

Blah,blah,blah...words,words,words...been there.

----

Do you really think that I am interested in constructive conversation? I assure you that I'm not.

OK, I'll ignore what you said then, except to say...

You attacked my integrity. Please be more careful in the future.

[Brilliand]

Coming from a very non-religious, socially liberal perspective, I find the idea that a girl wearing shorts is being immodest in a way that is _wrong_ to be relatively repulsive and socially backwards. I understand that you are not outright saying it is wrong, but obviously your contention with the immodest is precipitated by some sort of thought that the act itself is in someway wrong, and if you don't mind, I feel myself at the liberty to infer that you are asserting that what they are doing is "sinful" in some manner, or at the very least not conducive to holy thoughts of your own. I mean, if you are religious and authentically feel compelled toward the religion you are compelled to, you are without a doubt justified in believing as you do and feeling that way about shorts in general. You've done nothing wrong(a word of contention here I understand, but of course this is from my secular perspective), but just the very thought of supporting that manner of thinking is, again, repulsive to me.

To be honest, this is not a tenet of my religion (I thought of it myself), and for that reason I would not go so far as to say that any woman is sinning by wearing shorts. I simply see wearing shorts as a bad practice, like many others that are so prevalent that there is no use in fighting them.

You've come very close to the truth in this post, but I don't see the issue of shorts as something worth fighting over. Call it a personality quirk. (or perhaps an judgement, defended with all the vigor of the role function... )

Thank you for explaining yourself. I am sorry that I have angered you; I truly...

Um... In typing this post, I am blocked at every turn by the sight of in my post. I simply can't go on while simultaneously throwing my type into question and using Socionics to make decisions. I'm stopping here.

[Wynch]

Woah. Woah. Woah. Woah.

SLAM ON THE BREAKS.

I think my brain just imploded all over this thread. Four times. I...don't even know where to start.

[Banana Pancakes]

Women shouldn't wear shorts???

this thread illustrates to me why I'm not an LII.