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    Default Lies

    Paradoxically, perhaps, it seems to me that the types most likely to lie are those with as either a very weak or very strong function.

    By "lying" I mean making a statement that you know to be untruthful, knowing - or expecting - that the other person will believe it. I don't mean the face-saving, socially-lubricating everyday bullshit, like "I got caught in the traffic" when you just overslept.

    First, it seems that those with as PoLR - ENTps and ESTps - are most likely to tell lies because it will serve their purposes, or because they can't be bothered to tell the truth if telling a lie avoids complications for themselves - the "con man" kind of lies.

    Second, those with as base or creative function - ISFjs, INFjs, ENFps and ESFps - are more likely to lie if it serves a "greater purpose" - not maliciously. For instance, they are the most likely types to tell lies of the "I didn't want to hurt him/her by telling the truth". The "you can't handle the truth" kind of lie. "What's the point of being honest if you hurt someone" etc.

    What do you think? I don't mean this as type-bashing.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Creepy-heathiep

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    The situation is the most important factor.

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    But my suggestion is precisely that, in the same situation, some types are more likely to lie than others.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    edit

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    Creepy-Jimbean.

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    I don't think type really matters in a case like this, I think it has more to do with other beliefs rather than how the person matabilizes information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean.
    I don't think type really matters in a case like this, I think it has more to do with other beliefs rather than how the person matabilizes information.
    Probably. A person's qualities dont depend on their type.

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    Lie is not a function and is not connected with any particular function, therefore saying that there are types that most likely to lie is pure speculation.

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    I don't lie much to anyone and never to my family. My parents I lie to as I see fit, but it's still not very often. I feel justified when I lie to them though because I only do it when they're being nosey.
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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    It's starting to be quite obvious the fact that I agree with Expat, as usual.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Default Re: Lies

    Expat: What you say about diffent types' motivation for lying sounds plausible. Fits what I've seen. I don't know if the types you mentioned lie more or less than other types, so I can't say anything about that.

    Types with strong don't just lie to avoid hurting someone, but also to avoid getting hurt - that is, to avoid conflict or "negative emotions". It's like the usual face-saving socially-lubricating everyday bullshit, only a bit more extreme, and in cases where other types would simply tell the truth. -- In case an ENFP, INFJ, ISFJ or ESFP reads this: is this correct? I'm not quite sure of it; I mean, I haven't exactly done a field survey...

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    I noticed an ENTp I work with seems to lie for convenience. Once he lied to me and it was really obvious that he was lying, but I guess it was sorta to preserve his independence in a way?

    I lie sometimes to protect myself, to maintain my privacy. Especially if the question makes me sorta morally indignant, like "you don't have the right to know that!"

    My ENFp friend makes me laugh Apparently people at her work were gossipping about her sleeping with a guy from work and smoking dope (neither are true), but she has simply kept herself (and her friends) amused by feeding their rumour mill and wearing hippie style clothing etc.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Socionics.org says that lying is the main problem in the relationship of duality of the Te-Fi types (ISTP-ENFP, INTP-ESFP, ISFJ-ENTJ, INFJ-ESTJ).
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    I think that I sometimes lie obvious ways... it's not to deceive, it's to point out that I will not answer the question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I think that I sometimes lie obvious ways... it's not to deceive, it's to point out that I will not answer the question.
    hm yeah I guess that makes sense with him as well. That's what I meant by convenience - using lying to circumvent a whole debate about something that they'd rather avoid discussing.

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    yeah, it's ENTp-dodging a subject, not lying
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    Im not motivated enough to lie most of the time.

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    My life is a lie.

    (End emo tirade)


    I think weak types are the most likely to lie, but strong types are the best liars. I'd go so far to say that INFj and ENFp would be the best liars, simply because a) they can come up with and juggle a million different things to say, and b) they can predict how the other person will react and what the most convincing thing to say is.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    I've always been really good at lying... I'm a bit too proud to lie though. It's not logical to me, just like stealing isn't logical to me. Lying is a way of conforming to someone else's will and stealing is admiting that I am not strong enough to get what I want.
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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    omg ENTps are the most cryptic type... we speak ENTpese... I've been meaning to start a threaed, but I can't remember if I have already
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    //

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    @NFp-: What is a redundant emotion? Do you mean the thing that happens when people ask you how you are, and you tell them, and it turns out they didn't want to hear the truth at all?

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    The following statement is the truth
    The previous statement is a lie

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    i agree but i think it can be correlated to other things. personally it seems to me to be a part of a greater problem of transmission of intent within language. those two statements are unrelated.

    i am lying right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louise
    I lie sometimes to protect myself, to maintain my privacy. Especially if the question makes me sorta morally indignant, like "you don't have the right to know that!"
    That was one of things I was thinking of -- your strong means you know exactly when, for you, it's ethical to lie, and when it isn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by gilligan87
    I think weak types are the most likely to lie, but strong types are the best liars. I'd go so far to say that INFj and ENFp would be the best liars, simply because a) they can come up with and juggle a million different things to say, and b) they can predict how the other person will react and what the most convincing thing to say is.
    I think you're mistaking for . What makes you predict accurately how others will react emotionally is , not . INFjs have as Personal Knowledge, which makes them think that they are reading someone else's emotions but they are actually projecting their own onto them. So the best liars, according to your IMO correct reasoning, are ENFjs - which is also why they are known as the best politicians. And perhaps INFps, too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Expat, I think you might be on to something. In the past I have done the "I don't want to hurt him" kind of lie, but then I learned painfully that being lied to to protect your feelings hurts much worse than the truth. And, not wishing to inflict what I know now to be the much greater pain onto someone else, I avoid those kinds of lies now, and try to stick with the truth.
    Honestly I never understood how anyone could think otherwise, that is, not see that "being lied to to protect your feelings hurts much worse than the truth". That's one of the things that socionics has helped me understand - that some people honestly do not see that.

    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    For instance, when someone asks if she has gained weight and insists on you telling the truth (because if you don't, she said she will "know it") but when you tell her in the most civil manner that you can think of, she gets mad and the whole tirade begins.
    Well, perhaps here's an answer -- that some people, indeed, as Jack Nicholson put it, "can't handle the truth". In this case perhaps the only thing to do is say, "well, that's my honest opinion, as you asked. I may be wrong" etc.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I dispise lieing. Especially when people lie in an attempt to "sparemehurt feelings" they obviously don't know who I am, which is somewhat more frustrating. But this post is coming of hyperbolicly.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    when I consider what is truth and what is deception, I do not think in terms of the things that are actually being said. I think about what's going on in the other person's head and how they will respond to what I say.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Creepy-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by gilligan87
    I think weak types are the most likely to lie, but strong types are the best liars. I'd go so far to say that INFj and ENFp would be the best liars, simply because a) they can come up with and juggle a million different things to say, and b) they can predict how the other person will react and what the most convincing thing to say is.
    I think you're mistaking for . What makes you predict accurately how others will react emotionally is , not . INFjs have as Personal Knowledge, which makes them think that they are reading someone else's emotions but they are actually projecting their own onto them. So the best liars, according to your IMO correct reasoning, are ENFjs - which is also why they are known as the best politicians. And perhaps INFps, too.
    I don't think so....

    I can't speak for the ENFj but the INFp is a terrible terrible liar! We wear our hearts on our sleeves, man!

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ishysquishy
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by gilligan87
    I think weak types are the most likely to lie, but strong types are the best liars. I'd go so far to say that INFj and ENFp would be the best liars, simply because a) they can come up with and juggle a million different things to say, and b) they can predict how the other person will react and what the most convincing thing to say is.
    I think you're mistaking for . What makes you predict accurately how others will react emotionally is , not . INFjs have as Personal Knowledge, which makes them think that they are reading someone else's emotions but they are actually projecting their own onto them. So the best liars, according to your IMO correct reasoning, are ENFjs - which is also why they are known as the best politicians. And perhaps INFps, too.
    I don't think so....

    I can't speak for the ENFj but the INFp is a terrible terrible liar! We wear
    our hearts on our sleeves, man!
    lol. this is true.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ishysquishy
    I can't speak for the ENFj but the INFp is a terrible terrible liar! We wear our hearts on our sleeves, man!
    Ok, I agree; actually this is also my experience with INFps.

    I think ENFjs could lie very well if they wanted to, depending on how their Personal Knowledge views it.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    when I consider what is truth and what is deception, I do not think in terms of the things that are actually being said. I think about what's going on in the other person's head and how they will respond to what I say.

    Wait, so....... do you use that as a rationalization for lieing to people?

    I hate it when people do things like that to me, in terms of lieing for my "benefit". That's not how I function.
    I call that lieing for your (the other person's) benefit. :angry:

    I'm just a stickler on this issue because of things in the past.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    and I would be able to sense that
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    and I would be able to sense that

    I hope so
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    and I would be able to sense that
    Exactly, you read minds.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    exactly
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