View Poll Results: what enneagram wing/stacking am i, most likely?

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11. You may not vote on this poll
  • 5w4 so/sp

    0 0%
  • 5w4 so/sx

    1 9.09%
  • 5w4 sp/so

    0 0%
  • 5w4 sp/sx

    2 18.18%
  • 5w4 sx/so

    0 0%
  • 5w4 sx/sp

    0 0%
  • 5w6 so/sp

    1 9.09%
  • 5w6 so/sx

    3 27.27%
  • 5w6 sp/so

    1 9.09%
  • 5w6 sp/sx

    0 0%
  • 5w6 sx/so

    1 9.09%
  • 5w6 sx/sp

    1 9.09%
  • other; please specify.

    1 9.09%
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Thread: which of these makes most sense

  1. #1

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    Default which of these makes most sense

    pick one; explain.

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    Reading the Stackings for Fives on the blogspot page, I get the impression that you'd be So > Sx > Sp, though that's from trying to visualise how you'd act.

    I have no clue about your wing - I always find it difficult to determine the distinction between them.

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    I can't see you as 5w4, though it could just be that I haven't spoken with you enough to actually get an idea of who you are besides the image you carry with you on the forum and your interludes on stickam. I can't see you as a 5 sp because I don't think you really care that much. I would also argue that 5 sp is naturally predisposed to w4. I went with 5w6 so/sx, but I could see 5w6 sx/so as well. There doesn't seem to be a huge emphasis either way.
    ILE
    7w8 so/sp

    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

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    Definitely 5w6 > 5w4. 5w6 correlates with ILI-Te as well. I haven't voted yet because I kind of forget what certain instinctual stackings are supposed to imply. I'd like to read what you think you are and why.
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    Definitely 5w6 > 5w4. 5w6 correlates with ILI-Te as well. I haven't voted yet because I kind of forget what certain instinctual stackings are supposed to imply. I'd like to read what you think you are and why.
    check here.

    a lot of it is impertinent stories about different 5s' stacking self-descriptions

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    Whoops. I was looking for SP/SX and then realized I clicked 5w4. I thought I had changed it to 5w6 but apparently I failed at clicking.

    Anyway, I think 5w6 SP/SX. I really don't see where people are saying SP seems least likely from. I don't think I've seen you on stickam or interacted with you 1 on 1 at all but from your wiki life story, NY interactions, and posts, SP seems very dominant and blatant to me. I'd think ILI would trend towards SP statistically, too. So I think it's safe for me to bet on

    Some people mentioned SO, but you seem to have an underlying desire for intensity and intimacy that often gets overwhelmed or suppressed by fear or detachment, and I see more of that than 1 case for you being SO just because you're very involved on the wiki page and this site. From your wiki stories it seemed clear you didn't value groups much at all, too.

    Plus, the link from the first post on that enneagram site seems like the SP/SX description fits the best IMO (edit: although I just read you hate it haha, but I still think SP/SX works best IMO):

    "Self-pres/Sexual


    This subtype, like the self-pres/social, is more typical of the depictions of type Five. The self-preservational instinct accentuates the self-contained, withdrawing tendencies of the Five. Fives of this subtype love their time alone with a passion, and pursue it more actively even than the other subtype of self-pres Five, although with the sexual instinct second, they often want to find time for intimates as well. On the down side, they have more disdain for people and little use for the social aspects of life. They want to be left alone or they want to share their inner world with their intimates. The intensity of the sexual instinct is reserved for their intimates and even there it is sporadic. The self-pres energy gives this subtype a solid foundation and some degree of practicality.

    These Fives are conflicted when it comes to experiencing and expressing emotions. They usually default to emotional repression and to detached intellectual analysis. This is a dynamic common to all Fives, but with the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking, the balance of these forces is pretty precarious and it seems as though the scales are being constantly adjusted one way or another. As the social instinct is the least developed, the social arena gets the drier more intellectual approach almost by default."

    I'll try to read the rest of that thread later, but with so much "I'm not sure if I'm this type, but here goes" I'm not sure how useful it'll be.

    What do you think you are? You should be able to judge this much more accurately than any of us could come close to.

    2nd edit: to clarify, SO might be more obvious on the internet to us, but this is an SO environment. It could be argued that the internet removes conditioned responses from the real world that mask his true self, and I possibly could be persuaded to believe that, but from his own recollections of his real life I think SP was obvious and SO was unaccounted for. I tend to think of these systems as modeled after real world environments and best applicable to them, so I tend to value any real world data more than what we see from the safe environs of the internet.
    Last edited by BurntOrange; 08-03-2008 at 01:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    check here.

    a lot of it is impertinent stories about different 5s' stacking self-descriptions
    lol that is a disorganized mess and I'm too lazy to get past the first post. I dug up these instead, forget where I got them so if I'm violating someone's copyright laws they can go fuck themselves.


    ENNEAGRAM INSTINCTUAL VARIANT STACKINGS

    The two self pres stackings:
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    sp/soc:

    This type is generally private and reserved, and especially serious and practical minded in their focus to gain material security and in making useful connections that support their goals. When they do form a connection, loyalty is very important to them and they will not hesitate to end a relationship on grounds of disloyalty. This type may lack a certain degree of interpersonal warmth which can give the impression of coldness or disinterest in others, even a sense of selfishness. May be drawn to groups that attract like minded individuals, as in business clubs or volunteer organizations where a shared professional culture can facilitate social bonds. They tend to live conservatively and dress in an inconspicuously appropriate fashion befitting their status in life. May have a characteristically blunt and direct style of communication that can take others some getting used to. They are particularly strong in matters of commitment and sacrifice, and enjoy being the benefactors in assisting society's practical needs.

    Motivation: to attain a position of material and societal security.

    Familiar Roles: the businessperson, the responsible citizen, the pillar of society.

    Examples: Bill Gates, Donald Trump, Martha Stewart, Harrison Ford

    Sp/sx
    These people often have an earthy, mysterious quality to them. They are quietly intense, but to others may seem oblivious to the greater social world around them, instead favoring personal interests. They are slow to commit, but once they do it is with an attitude of life commitment, to the establishment of an impermeable bond. Others can be taken aback by how suddenly and completely this type can lock into them, and by the depth of understanding of the other's condition. They attach to others at an organic, root level, in contrast to the other subvariant's surface formality. Somewhat hesitant to enter new relationships, they instead preserve the select few enduring bonds they carefully form along the way. The sanctuary of home is of paramount concern, and this type takes particular delight in decorating their spaces to reflect their cherished sense of taste and depth. Depth and discrimination characterize this stacking.

    Motivation: to live in a secure, comfortable environment where they can pursue their private interests in depth.

    Familiar Roles: the mate, the mystic, the quiet supporter.

    Examples: George Harrison, Jackie Onassis, Eric Clapton, Emily Dickinson

    The two sexual stackings:

    sx/sp:

    This is perhaps the most internally conflicted of the stackings, and potentially the most inconsistent in behavior. This may occur as a blockage of the sexual instinct which can be redirected as a more generally brooding and troubled personality. They may isolate themselves for long periods of time before reemerging. They live according to a strictly personal outlook and are not particularly concerned with the approval of others outside of their immediate concern. They seem to be searching for something, the missing piece. If they find a soulmate they will unite without fanfare, forming a secret bond, dealing with formalities as an afterthought. Powerful sexual impulses facing inner resistance may manifest symbolically in the psyche, giving way to soulful interpretations of the unconscious. Under periods of stress severe sexual tensions may manifest as erratic, impulsively destructive behavior. Can seem restless, torn between the comforts of a stable home life and the urge to wander. May be prone to self medicating.

    Motivation: to know the heart, reconcile inner conflict, form a secure union.

    Familiar roles: the devotee, the seeker, the wanderer

    Examples of sx/sp: Prince, Carl Jung, Johnny Depp, Ozzy Osbourne, Johnny Cash, Joan Crawford, Princess Di, Marilyn Monroe, Janis Joplin, Frollo from "Hunchback of Notre Dame"

    sx/soc:

    This is the type that exudes the most raw charisma and sexual energy. They may identify so strongly with whatever they're involved with that they often become the symbol of its core essence, and sometimes its lead agent for change. Hardly content with the status quo, this subvariant seeks to alter the fundamental structure of something while at once embodying its purest or most extreme form. Possibly attracted to radical views on politics, philosophy, spirituality or creativity that reflect their penchant for testing boundaries. They enjoy pushing others' buttons, especially those resistant to their modes of expression. It's not uncommon for them to have a pet social, political or spiritual cause which they're able to support with heartfelt conviction. May exploit and seek to redefine sexuality to reflect their own colorful and uncertain understanding of it. While prone to exhibitionism, they are strongly attracted to grounding influences which can anchor them and provide stability. Failure to satisfy an especially intense desire for connection may cause this subvariant to spite others at the risk of jeopardizing the need for an equal, stabilizing force. Can feel pulled between wanting a life of maximum intensity and reassuring episodes of peaceful convention.

    Motivation: to impact others, question assumptions, challenge convention.

    Familiar Roles: provocateur, activist, exhibitionist

    Examples of sx/soc: Madonna, John Lennon, Yukio Mishima, Robin Williams, Drew Barrymore, Richard Simmons, Elvis, Bono, George Michael, Sinead O'Connor, Joan of Arc

    The two social stackings:


    soc/sp –

    This type is often the most comfortable in group settings, but tends to be a bit formal and awkward in one to one relations. This is the natural political type, affiliating themselves with groups or theories which best defend their social and material interests. They may lack warmth and individual identity and this could lead to problems in forming meaningful relationships outside of a shared social interest.

    The motivation for this type is to attain status within their chosen sphere - the "social climber."

    Examples of soc/sp: Hillary Clinton, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Ted Nugent

    soc/sx –

    This type has very strong one to one social skills, but is usually uncomfortable in group settings. They enjoy cultivating multiple relationships, and can be intensely involved when in the presence of someone they are interested in, but have difficulty sustaining these bonds when apart. This may give the impression of being flighty and rootless, willing to adapt and mirror others in order to connect, but lacking a defined approach that would give their relationships a more solid standing. They may have political interests, but are generally more pragmatic and less partisan than the other social variant. They are often attuned to pop culture and the latest trends.

    This type's motivation is to create lasting connections with those they are interested in - the "best friend."

    Examples of soc/sx: Michael Jackson, Bill Clinton, Howard Stern, Margaret Cho, Jack McFarland from "Will & Grace"
    Niffweed I am now relatively confident (well as confident as I can be without forcing myself to accumulate more enneagram crap) that you are ILI-Te 5w6 sp/soc.
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurntOrange View Post
    Whoops. I was looking for SP/SX and then realized I clicked 5w4. I thought I had changed it to 5w6 but apparently I failed at clicking.

    Anyway, I think 5w6 SP/SX. I really don't see where people are saying SP seems least likely from. I don't think I've seen you on stickam or interacted with you 1 on 1 at all but from your wiki life story, NY interactions, and posts, SP seems very dominant and blatant to me. I'd think ILI would trend towards SP statistically, too. So I think it's safe for me to bet on
    in what ways do you see sp? anything other than detachment?

    because i have two issues with that basically: one is that people see me as not really being detached for a 5, re the "extroverted ILI" thing, and that sort of as far as sp relates to things like "oh no i need to wash the dishes now in order to keep my living environment clean and essentially get such things done in order to keep getting the things i need," i'm very lazy about all of that. the problem i suppose is identifying exactly how much all of this has to do with the various etypes, but i can make a case that all of it is relevant.

    Some people mentioned SO, but you seem to have an underlying desire for intensity and intimacy that often gets overwhelmed or suppressed by fear or detachment, and I see more of that than 1 case for you being SO just because you're very involved on the wiki page and this site. From your wiki stories it seemed clear you didn't value groups much at all, too.
    hence the so != Fe thing. or does it?

    you tell me.

    What do you think you are? You should be able to judge this much more accurately than any of us could come close to.
    my impression atm is 5w6 sx/so, barring that sx/sp, but i'm probably very open to 5w4 or to something like so/sx. i'm pretty certain i'm not sx last.

    2nd edit: to clarify, SO might be more obvious on the internet to us, but this is an SO environment. It could be argued that the internet removes conditioned responses from the real world that mask his true self, and I possibly could be persuaded to believe that, but from his own recollections of his real life I think SP was obvious and SO was unaccounted for. I tend to think of these systems as modeled after real world environments and best applicable to them, so I tend to value any real world data more than what we see from the safe environs of the internet.
    perhaps a good point, but what can you make of it in the context of type 5 which is withdrawn to begin with?

    in many ways the internet is and has been a significant part of my interactions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    lol that is a disorganized mess and I'm too lazy to get past the first post. I dug up these instead, forget where I got them so if I'm violating someone's copyright laws they can go fuck themselves.


    Niffweed I am now relatively confident (well as confident as I can be without forcing myself to accumulate more enneagram crap) that you are ILI-Te 5w6 sp/soc.
    i don't understand where you get the sp/so from at all. and i regard sx last with extreme dubitation.

    fwiw those descriptions from oceanmoonshine that you were looking at which don't even consider the variants in terms of type are wholly useless IMO. basically i hate most of the information from that site, but you might have picked the most useless page there.

    if you want an abbreviated version, read the stuff in that thread that i wrote and ignore the rambling self-descriptions of others.
    Last edited by niffweed17; 08-03-2008 at 06:30 PM.

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    Mmm well I'm trying to frame a reply that might be helpful, but if you see this beforehand you might try taking this test. The accuracy on a lot of these is questionable, but it seems simple and straightforward so if we see a strong preference there's a decent chance it's your leading variant.

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    Uhhh, I got distracted. Here goes: to be fair, I'm by no means an expert on this stuff, but I have been pouring hours and hours into it over the last week as it suddenly piqued my interest. When I first came into socionics I just had enough interest to learn the basics and take some tests, which tended to show me having a strong preference for 7 or 7w8 if it showed variants.

    After getting back into reading the descriptions, the quickest thing I learned was that the more complicated they'd get the more divergent they'd become, often flat out contradicting each other, yet also the easier to relate to due to the Forer Effect. To really figure out my type, I had to simply figure out the basics of what each type was supposed to represent and how the system worked. Once I found out the actual motivations behind types, it became pretty clear that I was a highly counterphobic 6w7. I shortly thereafter learned that the one common denominator with counterphobic sixes is that they test as anything but sixes, since the tests tend to measure the result, not the cause. So in this regard, unless you know some sourced and studied descriptions that are proven accurate, getting down to the simplest level of things and staying simple is much better than reading a bunch of lengthy, convoluted descriptions that don't always work.

    Anyway, I don't think anyone can doubt that you're a 5. That much at least seems to be obvious and uncontested. Let's start from the bottom up though and see about wing. Well, first off, not having a wing preference is completely possible. However, If you feel like you identify only with 5 strongest, it just means you fall more dead center while other people are somewhere inbetween types. As for 4 and 6, 4 is going to more in the emotional triad and ideal seeking. If you relate to having a little bit more of that than most 5s, you might be 5w4. 6 is going to be a little more analytical than a 4 wing, but also a bit more approval seeking.

    Now for instinctual variant:

    Quote Originally Posted by Niffweed
    in what ways do you see sp? anything other than detachment?

    because i have two issues with that basically: one is that people see me as not really being detached for a 5, re the "extroverted ILI" thing, and that sort of as far as sp relates to things like "oh no i need to wash the dishes now in order to keep my living environment clean and essentially get such things done in order to keep getting the things i need," i'm very lazy about all of that. the problem i suppose is identifying exactly how much all of this has to do with the various etypes, but i can make a case that all of it is relevant.
    Well, self preservation, at its core, is just that. It is difficult to separate it from a 5, but it tends to be more of a focus on your own individual concerns in general. As for extroversion, I don't think that necessarily relates. Then again everyone is like that to a large degree, just like everyone tends to think they're SX because almost everyone likes 1 on 1 relationships.

    hence the so != Fe thing. or does it?

    you tell me.
    Certainly social interaction is every function, even if Fe is the most blatant. In terms of SO, it's more about attaching personal meaning just to the act of being involved with a group. You certainly seem very involved here. I always got the sense it was almost only about the intellectual pursuit vs an equal amount of that and a sense of worth to the community. It's quite possible that was just a bad inference on my part, as you certainly are integral to this site and wikisocion. If you strongly relate to getting a sense of worth from being so important to the community, then you're probably not SO last at the very least.

    Quote Originally Posted by Niffweed
    my impression atm is 5w6 sx/so, barring that sx/sp, but i'm probably very open to 5w4 or to something like so/sx. i'm pretty certain i'm not sx last.
    The thing about SX is everyone prefers making connections on an individual level. SX is more about seeking intensity seeking in those relationships. This variant is going to have the strongest urges and in general be a little less controlled.

    Anyway, I hope that helps at least a little. The core motivations of types is sourced from the 9types FAQ mostly, the variants from right in their names! concerned with SP, SO, SX reproduction =p right there. Of course, in unhealthy states the variants can manifest as great concern for one of those areas or even that combined with a sort of lashing out dislike for them if they're not being fulfilled very well. Whichever one you think about most is probably your primary even if the focus isn't obvious to the outside world, so obviously you know yourself best. I definitely think asking yourself these types of questions is going to give a more accurate result than a polling of people that know you to various degrees of usefulness, even if you didn't find what I wrote very useful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurntOrange View Post
    Mmm well I'm trying to frame a reply that might be helpful, but if you see this beforehand you might try taking this test. The accuracy on a lot of these is questionable, but it seems simple and straightforward so if we see a strong preference there's a decent chance it's your leading variant.
    i really dislike this test. i always get sp first on it, which is completely appropriate for an E5 questions like "i need a lot of time to myself."

    similarly, questions like "i am extremely sensual" do not resonate at all yet do not diminish the sort of Fi-focus that is inherent in the sort of relationship-seeking behavior.

    basically i think that considering the variants not in the context of the type themselves is really a waste of time, which is what this does.

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    this is basically not useful at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by BurntOrange View Post
    Well, self preservation, at its core, is just that. It is difficult to separate it from a 5, but it tends to be more of a focus on your own individual concerns in general. As for extroversion, I don't think that necessarily relates. Then again everyone is like that to a large degree, just like everyone tends to think they're SX because almost everyone likes 1 on 1 relationships.
    extroversion is not the point so much as 5-based extroversion, and sort of the energy to be able to communicate confidently in a group situation of intellectual interest.

    in many ways, i sort of see a distinction between "individual concerns" and "self-preservational concerns;" the latter being akin to logical lee's inability to get up and take care of his life.

    Certainly social interaction is every function, even if Fe is the most blatant. In terms of SO, it's more about attaching personal meaning just to the act of being involved with a group. You certainly seem very involved here. I always got the sense it was almost only about the intellectual pursuit vs an equal amount of that and a sense of worth to the community. It's quite possible that was just a bad inference on my part, as you certainly are integral to this site and wikisocion. If you strongly relate to getting a sense of worth from being so important to the community, then you're probably not SO last at the very least.
    i think the way you're describing it is extremely Fe-oriented and impossible for me to relate to. nonetheless, that doesn't necessarily mean that i always get nothing out of group interaction, but when the purpose of group interaction is really little more than to lounge around and share the mood, i am wholly uninterested in that.

    The thing about SX is everyone prefers making connections on an individual level. SX is more about seeking intensity seeking in those relationships. This variant is going to have the strongest urges and in general be a little less controlled.
    how does one seek intensity in one's relationships?

    Anyway, I hope that helps at least a little. The core motivations of types is sourced from the 9types FAQ mostly, the variants from right in their names! concerned with SP, SO, SX reproduction =p right there. Of course, in unhealthy states the variants can manifest as great concern for one of those areas or even that combined with a sort of lashing out dislike for them if they're not being fulfilled very well. Whichever one you think about most is probably your primary even if the focus isn't obvious to the outside world, so obviously you know yourself best. I definitely think asking yourself these types of questions is going to give a more accurate result than a polling of people that know you to various degrees of usefulness, even if you didn't find what I wrote very useful.
    i understand that, and clearly i think you did a poor job reading over what i have and haven't explored in the situation. nothing that you said here was really new to me.

    even so i'm mostly trying to feed information off of people who have an understanding of who i am. somebody may see things in a way that i wasn't really thinking about or explain things in a way that actually makes sense with regards to my experience as an E5. this doesn't mean that i take the responses in the poll seriously, but it's simply me gathering data and ignoring many of the responses which don't seem justified or don't make sense.

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    I had had this page open without refreshing and didn't see your post above mine. I was planning on reading that thread in terms of what they were saying and trying to draw some sort of correlation with you, but hadn't done it yet and hadn't realized you had added information there that wasn't here. I'll read what you put up and see if I can hone in the problem you're having a little more after I clarify some things in this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    extroversion is not the point so much as 5-based extroversion, and sort of the energy to be able to communicate confidently in a group situation of intellectual interest.
    I still don't see that as variant oriented. I'm assuming you're correlating that with being SO but I think most 5s would be confident in speaking about intellectual issues in such a situation unless they suffer from some sort of social anxiety.

    in many ways, i sort of see a distinction between "individual concerns" and "self-preservational concerns;" the latter being akin to logical lee's inability to get up and take care of his life.
    That might be fair, although I don't think it's exact because any SP type could fall into the same sort of neuroses if they felt comfortable and safe in that type of environment, or (in agreeance with it applying to SP) a SP primary might become obsessed with those things but be in too unhealthy a state to do anything about it.

    Maybe I am confusing some 5 tendencies with SP or even ignoring them, but it wasn't about the Fe situation at all. Admittedly I read that a long time ago and can't locate it again, but the specific example I can think of was the group wanting to go to a park or something and you not seeing the point of it and being more comfortable where you were. That was the whole tone of it to me. Being thrilled about socionics and discussing it as an NT and a 5, being interested by specific individual connections (primarily Danielle), but being somewhat separate from the group. Of course, SO doesn't mean you necessarily are you going to vibe with every group, but group mentality plays a bigger role. I guess that hesitancy and your 2ndary interest in individuals is why SP/SX immediately came to mind.

    i think the way you're describing it is extremely Fe-oriented and impossible for me to relate to. nonetheless, that doesn't necessarily mean that i always get nothing out of group interaction, but when the purpose of group interaction is really little more than to lounge around and share the mood, i am wholly uninterested in that.
    Sense of fulfillment is Fe? I don't think SO equals always having to love all types of group interaction. I think it's related to placing extra value on at least one specific group that you derive some sort of small part of your identity from. Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me group environments tend to be all about the subject matter for you. If you're SO, the subject matter will still be of the exact equal importance, but you'll also gain a sense of validation from the community, contributing, and being vital to it. If you feel that about your contributions here, contributions in socionics meetings, work on wikisocion, or work in any other specific community then that's an SO focus. If it's only about advancing socionics, then it's not so much.

    how does one seek intensity in one's relationships?
    Most likely to over idealize romance/love, most likely to overdo connections and be a player, most likely to obsess, most likely to excess in general I suppose.

    i understand that, and clearly i think you did a poor job reading over what i have and haven't explored in the situation. nothing that you said here was really new to me.

    even so i'm mostly trying to feed information off of people who have an understanding of who i am. somebody may see things in a way that i wasn't really thinking about or explain things in a way that actually makes sense with regards to my experience as an E5. this doesn't mean that i take the responses in the poll seriously, but it's simply me gathering data and ignoring many of the responses which don't seem justified or don't make sense.
    Well, I've read hundreds of your posts and your wiki stuff. My guess is still 5w6 SP/SX, although it could change very rapidly if you told me that some of my inferences about you were erroneous. If you really just wanted to hear from people that you've interacted with extensively you should've specified that at the start and saved me some time

    i really dislike this test. i always get sp first on it, which is completely appropriate for an E5 questions like "i need a lot of time to myself."

    similarly, questions like "i am extremely sensual" do not resonate at all yet do not diminish the sort of Fi-focus that is inherent in the sort of relationship-seeking behavior.

    basically i think that considering the variants not in the context of the type themselves is really a waste of time, which is what this does.
    Yeah, the tests all have flaws, but 1 or 2 bad questions isn't going to throw out the result if you scored say 90/40/30 or so like I did. If it came back so overwhelmingly in 1 direction I think we'd have a pretty good idea of your primary instinctual variant, which would be a decent starting point. Obviously if yours was more even it wouldn't mean anything, but I didn't think it would hurt to try it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurntOrange View Post
    I still don't see that as variant oriented. I'm assuming you're correlating that with being SO but I think most 5s would be confident in speaking about intellectual issues in such a situation unless they suffer from some sort of social anxiety.
    reyn_til_runa and salawa are cited as exceptions (who self type as 5w4 sx/sp and 5w4 sp/sx, respectively).

    That might be fair, although I don't think it's exact because any SP type could fall into the same sort of neuroses if they felt comfortable and safe in that type of environment, or (in agreeance with it applying to SP) a SP primary might become obsessed with those things but be in too unhealthy a state to do anything about it.

    Maybe I am confusing some 5 tendencies with SP or even ignoring them, but it wasn't about the Fe situation at all. Admittedly I read that a long time ago and can't locate it again, but the specific example I can think of was the group wanting to go to a park or something and you not seeing the point of it and being more comfortable where you were. That was the whole tone of it to me. Being thrilled about socionics and discussing it as an NT and a 5, being interested by specific individual connections (primarily Danielle), but being somewhat separate from the group. Of course, SO doesn't mean you necessarily are you going to vibe with every group, but group mentality plays a bigger role. I guess that hesitancy and your 2ndary interest in individuals is why SP/SX immediately came to mind.
    a very interesting comparison. i explained the situation by sort of talking about how my lack of interest in the park was a lack of interest in Si. i don't know that you're interpreting it correctly so much as that i just found being in the park to be pointless -- and it was cold. i suppose you could chalk that to sp, but i don't think that's very comprehensive at all. and it's not like i would have abandoned the group in favor of not going to the park and freeze my ass off for no reason that i could discern.

    Sense of fulfillment is Fe?
    E3-esque sense of fulfillment as far as needing the community's approval is mostly Fe-oriented, yes. being sort of awarded for something like that, especially if in a grandiose fashion and even moreso if i don't feel like i deserve it is likely to do little but annoy me or cause me to withdraw.

    I don't think SO equals always having to love all types of group interaction. I think it's related to placing extra value on at least one specific group that you derive some sort of small part of your identity from. Tell me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me group environments tend to be all about the subject matter for you. If you're SO, the subject matter will still be of the exact equal importance, but you'll also gain a sense of validation from the community, contributing, and being vital to it. If you feel that about your contributions here, contributions in socionics meetings, work on wikisocion, or work in any other specific community then that's an SO focus. If it's only about advancing socionics, then it's not so much.
    that's very interesting. as per the 5 so description on esper's wiki, i do think that the subject and the context of any social interaction is essential for me being an integral part of it.

    my gut reaction to this is to sort of say that me being able to "gain a sense of validation from the community, contributing, and being vital to it" sort of has an appropriate fit, but i can't really figure out why.

    it may be that it's sort of less about being part of a community in an Fe sense (which is sort of what it feels like is being described) so much as needing such a community as a forum to explore one's thoughts.

    Most likely to over idealize romance/love, most likely to overdo connections and be a player, most likely to obsess, most likely to excess in general I suppose.
    sounds atrocious for E5.

    Well, I've read hundreds of your posts and your wiki stuff. My guess is still 5w6 SP/SX, although it could change very rapidly if you told me that some of my inferences about you were erroneous. If you really just wanted to hear from people that you've interacted with extensively you should've specified that at the start and saved me some time
    oh, i'm still very interested to hear what you have to say.

    Yeah, the tests all have flaws, but 1 or 2 bad questions isn't going to throw out the result if you scored say 90/40/30 or so like I did. If it came back so overwhelmingly in 1 direction I think we'd have a pretty good idea of your primary instinctual variant, which would be a decent starting point. Obviously if yours was more even it wouldn't mean anything, but I didn't think it would hurt to try it.
    it was along the lines of sp = 70%, sx = 50%, so = 20%. but at the same time every single one of the sp questions which said "i need alone time" i marked as yes and every single one of the so questions which said "i am concerned about being friends with the popular people" i marked as no.

    that by itself was 50% of the test.

    don't read into this result at all. it's atrocious.

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    Damn that was a lot of work for me to decide my instincts were wrong and agree with everyone else. This is a pretty good example of where I get in trouble with things: I decide the instructions aren't necessary for me and skip over them. If I had just read or skimmed over more of that thread instead of deciding it had nothing to offer me within 2 posts, I wouldn't have had half a page of oblivious posts. MY BAD

    particularly, the focus on socializing over specific topics of conversation into which the 5 so is deeply delved, or the need for some kind of context for me to naturally generate social interaction, to me seems very pertinent to my behavior.
    my gut reaction to this is to sort of say that me being able to "gain a sense of validation from the community, contributing, and being vital to it" sort of has an appropriate fit, but i can't really figure out why.

    it may be that it's sort of less about being part of a community in an Fe sense (which is sort of what it feels like is being described) so much as needing such a community as a forum to explore one's thoughts.
    Yeah it definitely sounds like SO to me now. SO/SX same as the 3 votes, I guess that's where I'm at now.

    reyn_til_runa and salawa are cited as exceptions (who self type as 5w4 sx/sp and 5w4 sp/sx, respectively).
    Interesting. I suppose the highest indicator outside of type (although type would have a large effect on this too... so maybe 1 and the same still) would be practice. It would make sense if a SP and SX type would be involved in that the least. I certainly would have a hard time being convinced it's inherently less possible for a SO 3rd type to be good at speaking to groups though; just maybe less pursued.

    i don't know that you're interpreting it correctly
    I do that sometimes! I take my inferences too far, extract a mountain out of a mole hill.

    E3-esque sense of fulfillment as far as needing the community's approval is mostly Fe-oriented, yes. being sort of awarded for something like that, especially if in a grandiose fashion and even moreso if i don't feel like i deserve it is likely to do little but annoy me or cause me to withdraw.
    I didn't mean wanting an external reward for it but rather finding an internal reward just in partaking in it.

    it may be that it's sort of less about being part of a community in an Fe sense (which is sort of what it feels like is being described)
    That's probably just a difference in how we communicate. I was trying to eliminate as much of that as I could because I didn't think it was very pertinent, but apparently I'm not able to completely separate the Fe from how I explain things.

    sounds atrocious for E5.
    Well, those were all extremes. The only one applicable to E5 probably is over-idealizing romances or over-reacting in the reverse if they had been burned. I think I got the point across though, and even the generalized description on that post of yours seemed to agree that SX 5s were a bit of a paradox. Awakening seems to be a good example of a correctly typed 5 SX.

    it was along the lines of sp = 70&#37;, sx = 50%, so = 20%. but at the same time every single one of the sp questions which said "i need alone time" i marked as yes and every single one of the so questions which said "i am concerned about being friends with the popular people" i marked as no.

    that by itself was 50% of the test.

    don't read into this result at all. it's atrocious
    Haha, scratch that!

    Edit: well, to be specific I think 5w6 SO/SX seems likely, as it seems SO has been eliminated from last place at least, SX seems unlikely as #1 unless there's some deep-seated desire for that sort of intensity that is remaining mostly hidden, and SP seems to be the least addressed by you and the interesting to you, so maybe it's most likely #3.
    Last edited by BurntOrange; 08-03-2008 at 11:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    i don't understand where you get the sp/so from at all. and i regard sx last with extreme dubitation.

    fwiw those descriptions from oceanmoonshine that you were looking at which don't even consider the variants in terms of type are wholly useless IMO. basically i hate most of the information from that site, but you might have picked the most useless page there.

    if you want an abbreviated version, read the stuff in that thread that i wrote and ignore the rambling self-descriptions of others.
    Niffweed the fact is that I haven't met you in person and don't really know you so it's extremely difficult for me to define your enneagram variant. Whereas typing someone using socionics is possible by merely examining surface characteristics and methods of communication, with the enneagram you have to go "deeper" so to speak. It is to a certain degree less scientific and more difficult to ascertain. My enneagram book is 50km away but that would probably help.

    Also the variants should be able to be distinguished separate from the enneagram type by some one that has read enough about them.
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    Also the variants should be able to be distinguished separate from the enneagram type by some one that has read enough about them.
    i find that very hard to accept.

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    This in-depth overview of the variants on esper's page (it is hers, isn't it?) seems really good - of course, there's the problem of the detachment of fives, but if you consider if the unhealthy coping methods seems somewhat familiar to your own behaviour at times, it could be insightful (it was for me, anyway).

    http://theenneagram.blogspot.com/200...-variants.html

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