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Thread: eunice is Beta

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    Default eunice is Beta

    Because my counsel (Expat, niffweed17, Salawa, amongst other wise souls) says so.

    HEIL EXPATIAN SOHSEEONIKS! HEIL! HEIL! HEIL!

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    Why do they think Beta?

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    Are you mad?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    actually expat last i heard expat thinks she's SEI (i think).

    good try though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    actually expat thinks she's SEI (i think).
    I think Ti in super-id is likely; but the recent additions to the "I am not Beta" thread make me go for IEI>SEI.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    I think Ti in super-id is likely; but the recent additions to the "I am not Beta" thread make me go for IEI>SEI.
    all right.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    I'm actually more inclined to see SEI. I always think SEIs are more boring than IEIs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I'm actually more inclined to see SEI. I always think SEIs are more boring than IEIs.
    if thats your only reason, then you should reevaluate.

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    I actually agree with SEI; she seems like an E9 to me.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    if thats your only reason, then you should reevaluate.
    So you think she is Ni/Se? Honestly, Se DS? Come on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    So you think she is Ni/Se? Honestly, Se DS? Come on.
    i don't understand your objection.

    i realize that she's perhaps less of a mysterious character, but i think a lot of this perception really is sort of because she's perceived as "boring," pro-alpha types.

    however, a closer examination about the stuff that she has talked about as far as needing somebody to protect her, as well as her relative difficulties and reticence in social interaction, not to mention her dealings with ashton and co. more closely point to Se valued.

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    My original opinion was that she was the same type as fever, who is most likely SEI (imo), but I don't have a problem with IEI, either (at this point). I haven't read her "I'm not Beta" topic though.
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    I'm not completely sure of her type, although I don't think she's IEI. I am sure, however, that this forum as a whole hasn't yet demonstrated any sort of consistency with typing INFjs (on the forum), and this is playing a role in people trying to type Eunice.
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I always think SEIs are more boring than IEIs.
    Gah. I think that's because I avoid trouble.

    Anyway, one thing (admittedly quite a superficial reason) about me which doesn't point to Fe ego is because I am not an expressive person. My friends and colleagues have known me to have a blank expression, unless I am talking to them. lol. I have been noted for my outward calmness despite any adversities, even though I can be shaking inside which no one seems to notice. On the surface, I am rather cool and reserved which I tend to show more often to people I know better. When I get to know new people. I make an effort to be more "friendly" so that they won't misunderstood that I am trying to "push them away" Not trying to be a hypocrite here, but more of an effort to keep people engaged.

    I am also "cautious" than SEIs and IEIs in general whom I thought are more carefree and easygoing than me. I think too much and worry about the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    Gah. I think that's because I avoid trouble.

    Anyway, one thing (admittedly quite a superficial reason) about me which doesn't point to Fe ego is because I am not an expressive person. My friends and colleagues have known me to have a blank expression, unless I am talking to them. lol. I have been noted for my outward calmness despite any adversities, even though I can be shaking inside which no one seems to notice. On the surface, I am rather cool and reserved which I tend to show more often to people I know better. When I get to know new people. I make an effort to be more "friendly" so that they won't misunderstood that I am trying to "push them away" Not trying to be a hypocrite here, but more of an effort to keep people engaged.

    I am also "cautious" than SEIs and IEIs in general whom I thought are more carefree and easygoing than me. I think too much and worry about the future.
    lol
    Last edited by niffweed17; 08-03-2008 at 01:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    Gah. I think that's because I avoid trouble.

    Anyway, one thing (admittedly quite a superficial reason) about me which doesn't point to Fe ego is because I am not an expressive person. My friends and colleagues have known me to have a blank expression, unless I am talking to them. lol. I have been noted for my outward calmness despite any adversities, even though I can be shaking inside which no one seems to notice. On the surface, I am rather cool and reserved which I tend to show more often to people I know better. When I get to know new people. I make an effort to be more "friendly" so that they won't misunderstood that I am trying to "push them away" Not trying to be a hypocrite here, but more of an effort to keep people engaged.

    I am also "cautious" than SEIs and IEIs in general whom I thought are more carefree and easygoing than me. I think too much and worry about the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Are you mad?
    Angry mad, no! Crazy mad, yes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    What are you confused about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Because my counsel (Expat, niffweed17, Salawa, amongst other wise souls) says so.
    Does your counsel consist of anything else but Gamma NTs?
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    What are you confused about?
    Like Implied said, I wouldn't say that Fe necessarily equals physical expressiveness. Take me for example: I've always been entirely reserved, and I doubt anyone would describe me as very expressive at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    My IEI sister in law actually fits eunice's description pretty much perfectly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    i agree. honestly you don't seem that outwardly expressive at all to me. glamourama is another person who i've actually met and hung out with who is Fe ego and she's very reserved seeming. she gives the impression of being rather emotionally "controlled," if that makes any sense. if outward expressiveness is the sole measure of Fe-preference, then i personally think it's a poor one.
    I'm going to have to second these observations. I've even noticed this with kamangir when he's been on cam.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    i agree. honestly you don't seem that outwardly expressive at all to me. glamourama is another person who i've actually met and hung out with who is Fe ego and she's very reserved seeming. she gives the impression of being rather emotionally "controlled," if that makes any sense. if outward expressiveness is the sole measure of Fe-preference, then i personally think it's a poor one.
    I wouldn't imagine most folk would see it is as sole measure, but it's still one of them, but there is more to it yeah.. Compare as a contrast, some ESE's and SLI's for example.

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    I think that, for practical purposes, a very wide and obvious range of facial expressions is a hint towards some types, ESE in particular. But rather than the emotional expressiveness itself, I think the hint towards Fe is more how closely the emotional expression tends to "reflect" what is going on, rather than how intense it is.

    Also, it must be said that people often underestimate how expressive they appear to others. Kristiina's emotions, for instance, are usually rather visible, but I don't think she used to describe herself as particularly expressive emotionally. Other EIEs also have a self-image of being inexpressive, but that's usually not quite correct.

    Having said all that, I agree that SEIs and IEIs can have a "blank expression" as their default mode, more so than (say) some SLEs and ILEs, and so it's not a very useful criterion on its own.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    @starfall and implied: I agree on your comments about emotional expressiveness of IEIs. What I was trying to convey was that EIIs are much less emotionally expressive or in-tuned with their own feelings as compared to IEIs. Just my personal opinion.

    @joy: Was that what your sis-in-law told you or did you interpret her actions as such?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    @starfall and implied: I agree on your comments about emotional expressiveness of IEIs. What I was trying to convey was that EIIs are much less emotionally expressive or in-tuned with their own feelings as compared to IEIs. Just my personal opinion.

    @joy: Was that what your sis-in-law told you or did you interpret her actions as such?
    Both.

    I used to think my sister in law was Fi dominant (due to misunderstanding the type), but once she moved in with me and lived with me for a year it became apparent that she was Fe creative, not Fi dominant. Typing her correctly actually helped my understanding of Fe creatives a lot.

    My EII sister is actually more emotionally expressive than my IEI sister in law, at least around people she knows. The IEI generally has a bored or nuetral look on her face, especially around people she doesn't know. (I'm not sure if my sister is a good example of an EII or not though.)

    Anyways, you can contest my typings of these people, and I'm not here to convince you of anything. My point was simply to state my own observation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    Anyway, one thing (admittedly quite a superficial reason) about me which doesn't point to Fe ego is because I am not an expressive person. My friends and colleagues have known me to have a blank expression, unless I am talking to them. lol. I have been noted for my outward calmness despite any adversities, even though I can be shaking inside which no one seems to notice. On the surface, I am rather cool and reserved which I tend to show more often to people I know better. When I get to know new people. I make an effort to be more "friendly" so that they won't misunderstood that I am trying to "push them away" Not trying to be a hypocrite here, but more of an effort to keep people engaged.
    Okay, you wrote all this, and you just said it's superficial. I agree. Even if it wasn't superficial, it still wouldn't point away from Fe ego. Come up with another reason why you are EII and not IEI.

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    What are you confused about?
    When you say "I think too much and worry about the future"; almost a caricature of an IEI's typical sentiment, and still believe you are an EII - a Ni devaluing type - I think Starfall's confusion is perfectly warranted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Does your counsel consist of anything else but Gamma NTs?
    As much as I love Beta NFs, I find my own knowledge base always supersedes their own. Gamma NTs often if not always have a knowledge base beyond my comprehension, so I trust them for hard, factual information. Beta NFs I find have interesting ideas which are very often worth throwing into action, but they're rarely useful as knowledge bases.

    Anyway, I think that was a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Like Implied said, I wouldn't say that Fe necessarily equals physical expressiveness. Take me for example: I've always been entirely reserved, and I doubt anyone would describe me as very expressive at all.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    @starfall and implied: I agree on your comments about emotional expressiveness of IEIs. What I was trying to convey was that EIIs are much less emotionally expressive or in-tuned with their own feelings as compared to IEIs. Just my personal opinion.
    Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    When you say "I think too much and worry about the future"; almost a caricature of an IEI's typical sentiment, and still believe you are an EII - a Ni devaluing type - I think Starfall's confusion is perfectly warranted.
    Yeah... I seriously doubt that an LSE would be the best match for someone who tends to worry about the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Okay, you wrote all this, and you just said it's superficial. I agree. Even if it wasn't superficial, it still wouldn't point away from Fe ego. Come up with another reason why you are EII and not IEI.
    Not really the best example, but I make a lot of decisions based on personal values and beliefs, and what I strongly believe in. I do take others (eg. family, friends, colleagues) into consideration for any decision I make, but they don't play a major part at all.


    Why?
    I would consider myself not really in-tuned with my feelings. It's like, I have a limited range of emotions. Unlike other Beta NFs, I don't have very varied emotions. For instance, till today, I haven't never experienced anger before, don't know what been angry feels like and I never understand why would people get angry. Whenever I see people get emotional over a music, person, concert etc., I find it foreign because I have never have such strong feelings over something. Sounds weird, but sometimes I will even be unsure about how I am feeling. I would consider myself a very even-tempered person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Yeah... I seriously doubt that an LSE would be the best match for someone who tends to worry about the future.
    Would an EII not worry about the future?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    I would consider myself not really in-tuned with my feelings. It's like, I have a limited range of emotions. Unlike other Beta NFs, I don't have very varied emotions. For instance, till today, I haven't never experienced anger before, don't know what been angry feels like and I never understand why would people get angry. Whenever I see people get emotional over a music, person, concert etc., I find it foreign because I have never have such strong feelings over something. Sounds weird, but sometimes I will even be unsure about how I am feeling. I would consider myself a very even-tempered person.
    This is not typical for people of any type, especially ethical types.

    Would an EII not worry about the future?
    From what I've observed, they tend to worry more about the present than the future. This is something that LSE's are very well equipped to help them deal with. Perhaps the EII's here can expand on this or correct me if I'm wrong.
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    eunice, are you an enneagram 9?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    eunice, are you an enneagram 9?
    she'll tell you 4w5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    Agree. Even if they don't show it, most people do still feel things.

    And to go so long without experiencing anger seems strange to me. I can remember getting angry as a toddler, and speaking my mind about whatever had angered me.
    When I am unhappy about something, I tend to feel disappointed rather than angry. I try not to project negativity infront of people because I feel that there is no need to affect others just because I am not feeling good that day. As such, whenever I met into any adversities, I tend to keep them to myself rather than talk about itn with my family and friends. Whenever I am criticized, I tend not to argue back but prefer to reflect why that person would say that to me and where I had done wrong. For instance, when Expat and niffweed suggested that I have an incorrect understanding in Socionics, I take it as it is and try to look for room for improvement, rather than defend myself even though it doesn't feel good to be "commented".

    Even when there are arguments (eg. in this forum), I'm not inclined or even interested in participating because negative words don't come natural to me. I have been too used to saying encouraging staff to people to the extent that I find it hard to criticize someone whom I don't agree with. To me, there is so much negativity in this world, why should I contribute to it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    eunice, are you an enneagram 9?
    Likely. I have previously considered 4w5 and 9w1.

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    Tell me it's over, Rusbel awaits I've been to the surface
    And nothing is there, Eyelids sank muffled
    In the nerve aura sound, But when she awakes
    Will she still be with us?

    My heart is darkclots, Leap year is late
    How did you get here, Ask all but the bail
    From a Christ that went hissing
    Constricting his cells
    We summon by candle by book and by bell

    Glossolalia coats my skin
    Glycerin and turbulence
    stuffed the voice inside God
    Mirrors to the animals

    The sermon goes mourning, Pricking it's hail
    Slothful the child, That preys on the seed
    Shall behead the drought, Wound under sleeves
    I hope you have room, In a thicket of vines

    Give me a moment, To clean what you've stole
    The streets will hang high, Stretch ribs and let taste
    We'll cover the smell with silver nitrate
    Mending the cuts of your prosthetic faith

    Glossolalia coats my skin
    Glycerin and turbulence
    Stuffed the voice inside God
    Mirrors to the animals

    Then so long, Dear minemonic
    Assume the form, You've given me and I'll spill

    Now hold on, Just hold my hand
    Say that they made you
    But you brought your own leash
    Tell me no more no, say I'm the last one
    Outside, By the drift, You read my will
    Of thread and itch, Failure to comply
    As failure to decease
    And still you won't know everything
    I've built the fall

    Sulking drained the fall of my pale will
    Swarming by your steps
    Licking the ankles of blasphemer guilts
    It only meant to drape a plastic
    Over the stuck pig scalp of head
    To cover the sock where to flatline had spread
    The kiosk in my temporal lobe
    Is shaped like Rasalyn Carter
    She says my map is home again, But torn face down
    I have only but a million blemishes
    To tell you all about

    In the end they just gagged me
    To make him come out

    Gas me the hind, Of your five legged snare
    Tooth picks the eye, But no things there
    Down drags your waltz, Cross the alter top
    From a sleep that, Depravation knew
    Trespass your form, I'm void of dusk
    I'd ask to look, But the mask stays on

    You'll levitate, Teutonic print
    Cruelty is the wrath, Of my instrument

    In the end they just gagged me
    To make him come out

    You locked the cuffs
    Arsenic erupts

    Will you drink the shadow
    Of my red hair

    You and your falst, Witness to God
    You've one in the chamber,
    But your finger got stuck

    Let slip the sound, Of a cry for help
    But all was lost, On the night you walked

    Palms speak through eyes
    Serve your memory lost
    I cantaminate with insignias

    In the end they just gagged me
    To make him come out

    Glassolalia coats my skin
    Glycerin and turbulence
    Stuffed the voice inside of God
    Mirrors to the animals

    Wait till I get my hands on you
    I won't forget a face that left me
    Just you wait
    Till I get my hands on you
    I can't, You won't remember

    Unwrap my corpse, And let it thaw
    In the eye of the needle, I can't get out

    They'll check my wrist, I'll faint a pulse
    I'm not the human, You thought I was

    If you pet the night, Sixth pentacle dice
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    Whenever I am criticized, I tend not to argue back but prefer to reflect why that person would say that to me and where I had done wrong. For instance, when Expat and niffweed suggested that I have an incorrect understanding in Socionics, I take it as it is and try to look for room for improvement, rather than defend myself even though it doesn't feel good to be "commented".
    But you see, from my point of view, to say that you have an incorrect understanding of socionics is not really a criticism of you as such - not necessarily. It is clear, not only from my comments but from others, that your understanding of what makes a person an Alpha, or INTj, is very different from mine and others. You chose to single out traits that you seem are characterisic of Alphas - as per your use of the word "hence" - and, to us, they by no means point to Alpha. So it's obvious that when you say "Alpha" you are thinking of something different.

    To me, not to point this out is to leave unaddressed a source of present and future miscommunications - it's indeed if you were saying "cat" but were thinking of what I'd call a dog.

    So, it's less a question of "room for improvement", than of understanding why you associate those traits with Alpha in the first place. Because I have no idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    Even when there are arguments (eg. in this forum), I'm not inclined or even interested in participating because negative words don't come natural to me. I have been too used to saying encouraging staff to people to the extent that I find it hard to criticize someone whom I don't agree with. To me, there is so much negativity in this world, why should I contribute to it?
    "Negativity" for its own sake, as if I would take pleasure in pointing out supposed "defects" on people, especially those they can't change, is indeed pointless. But "negativity" as in pointing out what you think someone else is doing wrong, especially in a work situation, is a way to accomplish something. There is already so much inefficiency in the world; why should I not do something to reduce it?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  37. #37
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    Not really the best example, but I make a lot of decisions based on personal values and beliefs, and what I strongly believe in. I do take others (eg. family, friends, colleagues) into consideration for any decision I make, but they don't play a major part at all
    So far you've give a reason which is what you call "superficial", which is essentially useless in determining your type, and a reason which is "not really the best example".

    So come on, come up with the best reasons you have for why you're an EII and not an IEI. Or don't you have any?

    I would consider myself not really in-tuned with my feelings. It's like, I have a limited range of emotions. Unlike other Beta NFs, I don't have very varied emotions. For instance, till today, I haven't never experienced anger before, don't know what been angry feels like and I never understand why would people get angry. Whenever I see people get emotional over a music, person, concert etc., I find it foreign because I have never have such strong feelings over something. Sounds weird, but sometimes I will even be unsure about how I am feeling. I would consider myself a very even-tempered person.
    This is a good case for your not being ethical. Either that, or autistic. However, I do believe the problem with anger is definitely a Nine sentiment.

    Would an EII not worry about the future?
    Because Ni matters are not a preoccupation of theirs, and future-orientation and -focus is a Ni valuer's issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by eunice View Post
    I try not to project negativity infront of people because I feel that there is no need to affect others just because I am not feeling good that day.
    A good case for a Fe valuing type, trying to preserve the mood.

    As such, whenever I met into any adversities, I tend to keep them to myself rather than talk about itn with my family and friends. Whenever I am criticized, I tend not to argue back but prefer to reflect why that person would say that to me and where I had done wrong.
    Why?

    Even when there are arguments (eg. in this forum), I'm not inclined or even interested in participating because negative words don't come natural to me. I have been too used to saying encouraging staff to people to the extent that I find it hard to criticize someone whom I don't agree with. To me, there is so much negativity in this world, why should I contribute to it?
    Yeah, this is also a Nine expression. eunice, I'd bet you're a Nine, from this and the last description I commented on, and from your general demeanour.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    So come on, come up with the best reasons you have for why you're an EII and not an IEI. Or don't you have any?
    Do you think if you walked up to someone on the street and said this to them, it would have any affect on whether or not the person was EII or IEI?

    Why you are structuring things like that? Whether or not Eunice can articulate an "argument" using socionics terms is irrelevant.

    You should really question this whole "case" thing you've got going on.

    This is a good case for your not being ethical. Either that, or autistic. However, I do believe the problem with anger is definitely a Nine sentiment.
    Do you ever look at what you write and realize how rubbish it sounds? I've done that with some things I've written. It's good.

    A good case for a Fe valuing type, trying to preserve the mood.
    No, it is not. It's one sentence. It is not a "case" for anything.
    You can say that you are extrapolating things from it.

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