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Thread: Taking refuge in your base function

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    Default Taking refuge in your base function

    When we are stressed, or uncertain as to what to do, or impatient, or depressed, I think we are inclined to take refuge in what we know best, our base function.

    Here are some examples of how that may work:

    - finding something to do that you can do well (even if not really what has to be done in the circumstances); reading about something you consider useful; talking to others about it.
    - connecting to people; contacting old friends or connecting to new ones; perhaps starting a new friendship/relationship
    - getting into a brand new subject of interest
    - decisive action to re-establish sense of dominance over a situation, sometimes something as simple as telling someone off
    - doing something sensorially pleasant, perhaps just relaxing in a pleasant environment doing nothing
    - giving oneself time to reflect over things, or finding ways to connect to inner impressions; mind-wandering into the past, imaginary worlds, "writing books" in your mind

    (from the point of view of the external observer, and may lead to identical activities. For instance, a walk in the woods: for it would be the immediate pleasant surroundings, for because the quietness may facilitate getting into the inner reflective mood)

    - going to environments where the emotional atmosphere is the one they want to be at the moment? Typical example: going to a party to raise your mood?
    - plunging into things like mental exercises or mathematics (this is a bit lame but I couldn't think of anything better)
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Without saying anything about type, I think I absolutely follow the path in times of being "stressed, or uncertain as to what to do, or impatient, or depressed", then maybe , , (but I usually lack the follow through to do anything more than picture what I would like to know more about), (more rarely, but tends to actually 'get done' more than the Ne, certain Si activities tend to fulfill this for me). I feel little to no connection to any of the proposed ideas for // refuge.

    It's interesting what you have here though.
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    me too. also expat I remember having a discussion about EXTREME stress leading to conflictor like behavior.

    Maybe my reactions are related to stress caused from Se (my polr) topics.

    I thought also part of the dual's function was to help one deal with the polr so as to remove stress and to enable use of the program functions. Otherwise the person will try helplessly to gain comfort from his or her HA in order to rebalance the upset caused by stress. My experience.

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    Well, I think extreme stress may be when your base function has failed you?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I relate to doing the following in stressful situations, based on your examples: , , , (in no particular order).

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    You're right. The one is quite lame.
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    It works. At least from my point of view.

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    I would take it one step further and say that we get a sort of overconfidence in our base function above all else and we essentially become one-note. Mere shadowy shells of our former selves. We could be more confident if we 'worked on our weaknesses' so to speak, but it can't be done directly. (I tried it this way and I failed)

    For example I tried working hard 'just doing things', playing sports & doing various physical chores for people but I still was not happy nor did I grow in any way socially. My happiness only escalated when I was around quadra members and had people that understood me. Not perfect, but good enough. Once I get that understanding, I am on my way again- but I am too 'stuck' until then. I suppose this relates to my . One person really supporting and loving me well does not feel enough to go on.

    Being around other people that socially accept us unconditionally, not arguing/debating/mediating (I'm not being a wuss, I know it's 'just for fun' but it's still arguements nonetheless), all the time like we do here (since it's a mix of quadras and too many lifestyles and views and the like) is so essential to our well-being and development. However this is not a velvet coffin, but more like just simply being around other people that are like us but have also been successful in their careers & relationships.

    Face it you can only tackle a lot of problems with groupwork and help..... 'with a little help from my friends' so you can then go on and tackle that daunting task or confrontation you've been hiding from.

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    Hmm - interesting ... I relate to the one above the others.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Well, I think extreme stress may be when your base function has failed you?
    not sure.. but I know that when I am under extreme stress i don't act like myself.

    in most every situation I can think of, if i am under stress I act like what you have listed for Si and Fe. But, doing things like logic excersizes do give me satisfaction.

    Perhaps there are cycles.. I often am at my wittiest after a little bit of stress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Well, I think extreme stress may be when your base function has failed you?
    Yeah, that sounds right. I know IEEs who use a lot of Se when very stressed.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    Yeah.
    Well, could you or Logos then give a better description?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Well, could you or Logos then give a better description?
    Reading and discussion works just as well for as it often provides the input required to allow -processing to occur. I honestly doubt that any LSI or LII (or any self-respecting human being) just sits back playing mental logic games when they are stressed.
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    When I am overall stressed I withdraw. I think in those cases I most do a combination of Ni and Si, as you (Expat) describe them - the Si being the way I get to the Ni part. I.e. I try to find someplace comfortable or find something beautiful so I can loose myself in my own mind. For example, I'll curl up on my bed and daydream. Or I'll look at the sky and notice the shapes and textures and colors and think about how it appeared 10,000 years ago and then let my thoughts journey from there as they may, perchance stopping every now and then for a bird's conversation or tree's dance - all the while letting my problems work themselves out in the background of my mind.

    The thing about the Fi one as you describe it is that it is too active. It requires too much energy to reach out like that, especially to make new friends. When I'm stressed I want to conserve my energy, and I pull back to within myself and/or what is already known. If I am seeking new friendship or connections, it is often in a sort of mercenary way, where I'm looking for someone who can help me solve my problem or bolster my position. Sometimes I do go look for someone I can complain to and thus try to relieve my emotional burden (although when I do that it'll often become apparent to me that my problem isn't really that big a deal and I feel ashamed and end up not telling anyone about it).

    I will sometimes do a version of the Fe one, where I seek out someone or something to give me positive emotional input. Generally, again, that has to do with something I'm already familiar with. For example, if I'm feeling depressed it helps me to be around my family. Not necessarily interacting with them, but being there and picking up that positive warmth, or any other emotions, that are washing around.

    When uncertain I'll go seek advice if I can. It depends on the situation and if I know anyone who has the expertise to be of help. I can be really bad at wavering and hesitating, but I've learned how to be quicker in decision-making. So, sometimes, just to get things more settled and less unsure, I'll go to the Se one, as you describe it, and make executive decisions and hand out instructions and orders. That's usually more of a last resort kind of a thing, where it's like "Gah, nobody's fixing this! It really needs to be done! So darn it if I'm not going to do it!" Although, if it's already my responsibility, I don't mind ordering people about. But, anyway, I digress...


    In general, I think I find myself most in the Ni one - again, as you describe it here. It is escapism, which is, for better or worse, one of the ways I naturally deal with problems.
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    I have made observations similar to this. This looks good.
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    I relate to the , and descriptions the most. And perhaps .
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    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    and . I would need a clearer example of to determine whether not I take refuge in it.

    "His feeling that this world is not his Fatherland, and that it does not represent his proper condition, so to speak—his feeling that, basically, he 'comes from afar'—will remain a fundamental element which will not give rise to mystical escapism and spiritual weakness, but rather will enable him to minimise, to relativise, to refer to higher concepts of measure and limit, all that can seem important and definitive to others, starting with death itself, and will confer on him calm force and breadth of vision." — Julius Evola

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    i can see myself in the , and descriptions. Not at all or .
    just plain relaxing in a pleasant environment might drive me crazy. and i think large parties would stressed me out more.
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    Yeah, I agree with the Se one. Yesterday I finished my book, I'd checked the forums, and I was "stuck" (no friends or running kit or games with me) at my dad's. So I had nothing to do. I tried to find something to do. The first thing I did was tell my sister to turn the music off because it was boring me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    When we are stressed, or uncertain as to what to do, or impatient, or depressed, I think we are inclined to take refuge in what we know best, our base function.
    You think?

    Here are some examples of how that may work:

    - finding something to do that you can do well (even if not really what has to be done in the circumstances); reading about something you consider useful; talking to others about it.
    So if you're screwing one thing up, shift to something else that's easier? I suppose I do that at times. Although it's more like doing thinsg out of order, in order to not "lopside" my mind too much, with "struggling" too much with something I can't master.

    It's kind of like if you keep doing the same thing again and again, and you're getting worse, not better, it can help to "shift" and then come back. And it's magically easier. Whereas if you keep doing it again and again you actually get worse, because the "wrong" thing becomes too engrained in you.

    - connecting to people; contacting old friends or connecting to new ones; perhaps starting a new friendship/relationship
    HAHAHA you're stressed and you want something new? A new friend. Yeah, whatever. SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE ASKING FOR TROUBLE. You're going to magically build trust. And you're going to allow yourself to take risks when you're in a bad spot.

    - getting into a brand new subject of interest
    SOUNDS LIKE A DISTRACTION. If you don't like what you're doing pretend you're doing something else. ALTER THE MEANING. SHIFT, DISTORT. Or do you mean doing smoething completely and utterly different? Sounds a way to get scattered even more.

    - decisive action to re-establish sense of dominance over a situation, sometimes something as simple as telling someone off
    So venting? Letting off steam. Like when you punch someone because you made a mistake. And it makes you feel better about yourself?

    - doing something sensorially pleasant, perhaps just relaxing in a pleasant environment doing nothing
    I don't understand this one. What's a "pleasant" enviornment.? Is that like getting drunk/stoned etc ? Doing something that's familiar that you enjoy.

    [quotue]
    - giving oneself time to reflect over things, or finding ways to connect to inner impressions; mind-wandering into the past, imaginary worlds, "writing books" in your mind
    [/quote]

    That's actually something I really like when I get a bit of down time when I'm stressed - like when I can breathe - finally - Although then something is likely to "raise" me back to attention. Even if it's just some faggot whining wanting to be punched in the head. Begging to be compromised.

    (from the point of view of the external observer, and may lead to identical activities. For instance, a walk in the woods: for it would be the immediate pleasant surroundings, for because the quietness may facilitate getting into the inner reflective mood)
    - going to environments where the emotional atmosphere is the one they want to be at the moment? Typical example: going to a party to raise your mood?
    I like "full" feeling environments when I'm feeling stressed. Like it feels like there's some resistance. LIke if I'm in a "bad" mood, I'm not going to "shift" the emotional environment much, like thinsg will stay the same whilst I come into a "better" mood.

    So that's Fe seeking?

    - plunging into things like mental exercises or mathematics (this is a bit lame but I couldn't think of anything better)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    You think?
    Probably your most overused phrase ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Probably your most overused phrase ever.
    There's no time for differentiation here.

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    This works for me. When I've been really stressed, I've wanted to completely start over - get a new job, move, take a class to learn something new, whatever I can com up with. While I have always wanted to move far away, I have never been able to manage that. But I've wanted to and I've researched moving. I have quit my job and gotten something new - sometimes in a completely different field - when I've been stressed.

    My husband had a period of time before I met him where he was terribly stressed and depressed and he spent all of his time sitting around watching TV and drinking and smoking weed. Definitely a retreat to .
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    I do the thing, but I have to really feel bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    TBQH I think that the Enneagram Harmonic Styles are more accurate in regards to predicting how a person handles stress.

    For example, I'm a seven:

    Sevens can get into conflicts by being impatient, irresponsible, and excessive. Sevens tend to focus on their positive expectations for satisfaction and fulfillment. Sevens are in fact fleeing from a threatening internal world and seeking security in the external world. If Sevens slow down, their minds may be drawn into the inner world of grief, sadness, and disappointment. [b]Their quick minds avoid dealing with conflict and problems through distraction and constant activity. Sevens do not typically internalize their experiences; they remain somewhat unattached to people and things.[b/b] In conflict, Sevens can quickly discard things and cancel commitments (ie., the needs of others) without feelings of regret. It is easier to move on to happier things than to stay with things that depress. Sevens tend to reject the needs of others in favour of fulfilling their own.
    This is why I relate to multiple descriptions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    - finding something to do that you can do well (even if not really what has to be done in the circumstances); reading about something you consider useful; talking to others about it.
    - getting into a brand new subject of interest
    - decisive action to re-establish sense of dominance over a situation, sometimes
    - going to environments where the emotional atmosphere is the one they want to be at the moment? Typical example: going to a party to raise your mood?
    All of these things can be done to avoid/ignore my stress. I can distract myself doing any of those things. However, I don't relate to the , , , or ones at all. I couldn't possibly do anything too internal/mental when I'm upset. So dealing with people on a personal level like the description would be difficult as well as the 's thinking logically about something longer than necessary. And any reflection like in the description is laughable, as well as relaxing and doing nothing like in the one.
    I think Allie makes a very very valid point here.

    When I'm stressed I definitely run away from anything too internalized and I have a desperate need to take serious control of my life until everything is exactly how I want it to be. This seems to have more to do with something like enneagram than with socionics. Anything internal runs the risk of self-examination, which scares the crap out of me, so I hit the trail running. Like Allie, I would resort to any of the external descriptions provided. Each of the internal ones would probably lead back to my point of stress and therefore make me more stressed than when I started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    This works for me. When I've been really stressed, I've wanted to completely start over - get a new job, move, take a class to learn something new, whatever I can com up with. While I have always wanted to move far away, I have never been able to manage that. But I've wanted to and I've researched moving. I have quit my job and gotten something new - sometimes in a completely different field - when I've been stressed.
    This makes sense. I went through a rather stressful period in my life some time ago and this was my exact reaction to it.

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    When I was at my *most* stressed time, I went psycho and became a neat freak. I was living alone in an apartment, and let me tell you that place was immaculate. So that was not at all Ne. But that was a very extreme case of stress. Generally, i just want to start over if I get stressed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    - doing something sensorially pleasant, perhaps just relaxing in a pleasant environment doing nothing

    - going to environments where the emotional atmosphere is the one they want to be at the moment? Typical example: going to a party to raise your mood?
    These are what i'm most likely to do when i'm under stress. The , , and ones are nothing like me though.

    - giving oneself time to reflect over things, or finding ways to connect to inner impressions; mind-wandering into the past, imaginary worlds, "writing books" in your mind
    My IEI friend says I should do this more, but it bores me senseless! I try to avoid him when I get too much of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Yeah, I agree with the Se one. Yesterday I finished my book, I'd checked the forums, and I was "stuck" (no friends or running kit or games with me) at my dad's. So I had nothing to do. I tried to find something to do. The first thing I did was tell my sister to turn the music off because it was boring me.
    so did she turn the music off? I woulda been like go away then if it bores you so much.
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    well, not to be BORING or anything, but I totally do the thing when I'm stressed and pretty much nothing else. Sometimes a bit of I guess.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I woulda been like go away then if it bores you so much.
    but ... but ... but Se.
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I woulda been like go away then if it bores you so much.
    GTFO!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    - doing something sensorially pleasant, perhaps just relaxing in a pleasant environment doing nothing
    - giving oneself time to reflect over things, or finding ways to connect to inner impressions; mind-wandering into the past, imaginary worlds, "writing books" in your mind

    (from the point of view of the external observer, and may lead to identical activities. For instance, a walk in the woods: for it would be the immediate pleasant surroundings, for because the quietness may facilitate getting into the inner reflective mood)
    These are kinda interwoven in my experience. When I'm really stressed, I usually just want to get away from all disharmonious external stimulation. People, noise, demands, activity... my first inclination is to isolate, cocoon, placate myself with simple pleasantries, soft, quiet, comforting surrounds. TV, movies and music as sensorial escape. Just being alone in my own home is usually immensely satisfying.

    - connecting to people; contacting old friends or connecting to new ones; perhaps starting a new friendship/relationship
    Can't imagine doing this when I'm stressed.

    - getting into a brand new subject of interest
    Occasionally this works.

    - decisive action to re-establish sense of dominance over a situation, sometimes something as simple as telling someone off
    I do sometimes sublimate/redirect my frustration.

    I actually see yelling and redirecting my turmoil as more though.

    - going to environments where the emotional atmosphere is the one they want to be at the moment? Typical example: going to a party to raise your mood?
    Don't particularly relate to this. Wouldn't go to a party if I was feeling down or stressed. Social interaction would only make me more stressed.

    - plunging into things like mental exercises or mathematics (this is a bit lame but I couldn't think of anything better)
    Um... No. Even less capable of focused mental activity during times of stress than my usual low level of mental discipline.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

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  34. #34
    strrrng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    eh, actually i agree with mn0good and allie on this. when i'm stressed, i definitely resort to external functions first.
    which is why you're not INTp lol
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    which is why you're not INTp lol
    Or ISTp.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    strrrng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark
    Or ISTp.
    yup
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    so did she turn the music off? I woulda been like go away then if it bores you so much.
    She's a Nine. Eventually, she turned it off. My sister simply requires a bit of verbal pressure. My brother is much harder to deal with.

    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    which is why you're not INTp lol
    What is she?

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Or ISTp.
    What is she?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    She's a Nine. Eventually, she turned it off. My sister simply requires a bit of verbal pressure. My brother is much harder to deal with.



    What is she?



    What is she?
    if ashtonian thought is any indication, presumably they think IEE. i do not recall which subtype.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    When we are stressed, or uncertain as to what to do, or impatient, or depressed, I think we are inclined to take refuge in what we know best, our base function.

    Here are some examples of how that may work:

    - finding something to do that you can do well (even if not really what has to be done in the circumstances); reading about something you consider useful; talking to others about it.
    - connecting to people; contacting old friends or connecting to new ones; perhaps starting a new friendship/relationship
    - getting into a brand new subject of interest
    - decisive action to re-establish sense of dominance over a situation, sometimes something as simple as telling someone off
    - doing something sensorially pleasant, perhaps just relaxing in a pleasant environment doing nothing
    - giving oneself time to reflect over things, or finding ways to connect to inner impressions; mind-wandering into the past, imaginary worlds, "writing books" in your mind

    (from the point of view of the external observer, and may lead to identical activities. For instance, a walk in the woods: for it would be the immediate pleasant surroundings, for because the quietness may facilitate getting into the inner reflective mood)

    - going to environments where the emotional atmosphere is the one they want to be at the moment? Typical example: going to a party to raise your mood?
    - plunging into things like mental exercises or mathematics (this is a bit lame but I couldn't think of anything better)
    yes this could be true. i've done this more often years ago. probably more true if my mood is depressed and sad.

    if i'm stressed or anxious then i'm more likely to move into massive problem solving mode a la Te. i feel sooo much better once i have contingency plans. also massive Se works, too, the taking of actions and getting things to move to the right spot; this helps too.l

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    When I am stressed I first look for ways out. Try, intensely, to work things out, to do everything within my power to fix things. This is how I normally respond to problems, stress, by quadrupling my efforts. Not sure which one that would be. I'm thinking and . Thinking a lot about the problem, how to fix it, and then taking things into my hands, doing things to fix it, reestablishing control.

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