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Thread: About my ESFp best friend (SEE-SLE)

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    Default About my ESFp best friend (SEE-SLE)

    My best friend is a ESFp. Sometimes, she frustrates the fuck out of me, and I dont understand why she goes abou living her life the way she does. It does not make sense to me what so ever.

    She has NO motivation to do much, unless she thinks its fun. She has not had a job for the last 4 months, and mooches money of her mother. She is 22. She lives at home, she has been seeing a married man for the last three years, she doesnt have a drivers licence and she cannot take active participation in society.

    She has a tendancy to personalize her work enviroment. By that, I mean she gets TOO friendly with her boses and co-workers. She cannot separate work from personal life.

    She quit her last job, because she felt that she was being treated badly, and did not get the recognition she felt she deserved...not enough praise. Althought true, everyone gets treated like shit at work, not every person can be acknowledged for every little thing they do. And, she has not returned to a job since then. That was 4 months ago. I keep trying to motivate her to get a job, she doesnt want to. She has been "working on" her resume for the last two weeks. Nothing can get through to her. Not even the fact that she owes numerous people money. She has this inpecable gift of gab that makes people want to give her money. It's sick. She uses the "i dont know what i want to do" excuse, to get out of having a job. I tell her, get something that you can have a little spending cash, WHILE you figure out what you want to do. Her response to that is either "yea yea" or "you dont understand" I have been picking up for her A LOT, and it's getting old really fast.

    She complains almost daily about her family treats her like crap. This is true, however, some of the shit is warranted. She spends her day lazing around the couch, not doing much, either talking to one of the guys she's boning, watching tv, or on the internet. This is mostly when I am not around. Her family bitches at her, a lot, for not brining any source of income. I can understand that. Her mom is a single mother, working full time, with her and two younger children. Both of my friends' YOUNGER brothers have a job. One of them at 17, even has a car. Ridiculous. Even they pester her, because she borrows money from them as well. This IN PART, causes a lot tension in the household, because even though her brothers are somewhat more responsible in the work sense, they are party animals and they frequently distroy the house and don't do much about it. A lot of the blame that goes on in the household is put on her, even when it is not her fault. I think, because she's the eldest, therefore should know better and set an example, but she does not. She does have some serious family issues, so I tell her to move out, separate and start her own life. That it would be better if she did that, but again, her excuse is "i am afraid of being alone" or "i have no money to move out" yet when I tell her to get a fucking job, her response is "i know, but tis not easy as you think it is".

    She is seeing a married man, for the last three years. There is too much to go into specifics, but it's an emotional roller coaster. She bases a lot of her time-spend, on waiting around for him. When even he himself said he will not leave his wife. There was a time where I once threatened him, if he didnt leave her alone I would ruin his life, and HE backed off...but she went and persued him and kept it a secret that they were seeing each other still for like 2 months. Then recently, more drama ensued as per, and I was sick of her always being up and then down, and always crying. So I gave her an ultimatum thinking she would choose a best friend of 10yrs to a married man she's been seeing for 3....she chose him. We didn't talk for almost 2 months. We are fine now, but still...

    She doesn't have a drivers license, yet she still drives her moms car at times. She is 22, and this is another excuse, she uses that she cant get a job, it's hard to try and find one using the public transportation system. Oh, my, God. I dont even know what to say in reference to the license...I dont understand it, I got mine as soon as I could. I love driving and having the freedom of deciding to go when and where I want.

    As far as active participation in society, well...money wise, she is never careful with money. She has accumulated debt, that she has not been paying off. She hasn't paid taxes in years. I seriously think, this girl will be in deep shit if she doesn't sort herself out.

    I think she feels sorry for herself too much, and she doesn't accept responsebility. I think she expects for great things to just occur, because she is "worthy of it". I dont undersand how someone can just live in a shitty situation, and complain about it til the cows come home, but do absolutley nothing about it.

    She loves her family, and they are her downfall, and she refuses to stand up for herself. Sometimes I want to shake her until she gets the shaken-baby-syndrome. Tell her to wake up, and smarten up. I've tried so many times, she never takes my advice. There have been times where Ive pushed her as much as I can, and she just reverts to her old self. I dont know why she is so deluded. And, when the rotten fruits of her un-labour fall into her lap, she complains, cries, and is depressed because "nothing ever goes right" for her.

    I love her, but sometimes I want to beat the shit out of her to knock some sense into her. There is no point though, because she will just sit there and smile, and end up making some funny remark.

    How do you get through to people like this? I really think she needs help, I just dont think she realizes how BAD everything really is. She lives in some sorta dream.
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    She needs to grow up pretty fast. The US is heading for the worst economic times since the 70's, the first real economic depression in many peoples' lifetime. She won't be able to get a job even if she wants to in 12 months time.

    Probably the only thing that can wake her up is life kicking her in the ass. First step is to get her to move out I guess. She needs to start her own life.
    INFp

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    i think i want to talk with your friend. give me her phone number and tell her i am a psychologist who will brainwash her into getting better
    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by ESTP View Post
    My best friend is a ESFp. Sometimes, she frustrates the fuck out of me, and I dont understand why she goes abou living her life the way she does. It does not make sense to me what so ever.

    She has NO motivation to do much, unless she thinks its fun. She has not had a job for the last 4 months, and mooches money of her mother. She is 22. She lives at home, she has been seeing a married man for the last three years, she doesnt have a drivers licence and she cannot take active participation in society.

    She has a tendancy to personalize her work enviroment. By that, I mean she gets TOO friendly with her boses and co-workers. She cannot separate work from personal life.

    She quit her last job, because she felt that she was being treated badly, and did not get the recognition she felt she deserved...not enough praise. Althought true, everyone gets treated like shit at work, not every person can be acknowledged for every little thing they do. And, she has not returned to a job since then. That was 4 months ago. I keep trying to motivate her to get a job, she doesnt want to. She has been "working on" her resume for the last two weeks. Nothing can get through to her. Not even the fact that she owes numerous people money. She has this inpecable gift of gab that makes people want to give her money. It's sick. She uses the "i dont know what i want to do" excuse, to get out of having a job. I tell her, get something that you can have a little spending cash, WHILE you figure out what you want to do. Her response to that is either "yea yea" or "you dont understand" I have been picking up for her A LOT, and it's getting old really fast.

    She complains almost daily about her family treats her like crap. This is true, however, some of the shit is warranted. She spends her day lazing around the couch, not doing much, either talking to one of the guys she's boning, watching tv, or on the internet. This is mostly when I am not around. Her family bitches at her, a lot, for not brining any source of income. I can understand that. Her mom is a single mother, working full time, with her and two younger children. Both of my friends' YOUNGER brothers have a job. One of them at 17, even has a car. Ridiculous. Even they pester her, because she borrows money from them as well. This IN PART, causes a lot tension in the household, because even though her brothers are somewhat more responsible in the work sense, they are party animals and they frequently distroy the house and don't do much about it. A lot of the blame that goes on in the household is put on her, even when it is not her fault. I think, because she's the eldest, therefore should know better and set an example, but she does not. She does have some serious family issues, so I tell her to move out, separate and start her own life. That it would be better if she did that, but again, her excuse is "i am afraid of being alone" or "i have no money to move out" yet when I tell her to get a fucking job, her response is "i know, but tis not easy as you think it is".

    She is seeing a married man, for the last three years. There is too much to go into specifics, but it's an emotional roller coaster. She bases a lot of her time-spend, on waiting around for him. When even he himself said he will not leave his wife. There was a time where I once threatened him, if he didnt leave her alone I would ruin his life, and HE backed off...but she went and persued him and kept it a secret that they were seeing each other still for like 2 months. Then recently, more drama ensued as per, and I was sick of her always being up and then down, and always crying. So I gave her an ultimatum thinking she would choose a best friend of 10yrs to a married man she's been seeing for 3....she chose him. We didn't talk for almost 2 months. We are fine now, but still...

    She doesn't have a drivers license, yet she still drives her moms car at times. She is 22, and this is another excuse, she uses that she cant get a job, it's hard to try and find one using the public transportation system. Oh, my, God. I dont even know what to say in reference to the license...I dont understand it, I got mine as soon as I could. I love driving and having the freedom of deciding to go when and where I want.

    As far as active participation in society, well...money wise, she is never careful with money. She has accumulated debt, that she has not been paying off. She hasn't paid taxes in years. I seriously think, this girl will be in deep shit if she doesn't sort herself out.

    I think she feels sorry for herself too much, and she doesn't accept responsebility. I think she expects for great things to just occur, because she is "worthy of it". I dont undersand how someone can just live in a shitty situation, and complain about it til the cows come home, but do absolutley nothing about it.

    She loves her family, and they are her downfall, and she refuses to stand up for herself. Sometimes I want to shake her until she gets the shaken-baby-syndrome. Tell her to wake up, and smarten up. I've tried so many times, she never takes my advice. There have been times where Ive pushed her as much as I can, and she just reverts to her old self. I dont know why she is so deluded. And, when the rotten fruits of her un-labour fall into her lap, she complains, cries, and is depressed because "nothing ever goes right" for her.

    I love her, but sometimes I want to beat the shit out of her to knock some sense into her. There is no point though, because she will just sit there and smile, and end up making some funny remark.

    How do you get through to people like this? I really think she needs help, I just dont think she realizes how BAD everything really is. She lives in some sorta dream.
    First of all, that's just where she is right now. Judging it as good or bad won't help anything. She's still learning what she needs to know in order to change the situation.

    Secondly, her action plan should involve getting her driver's license and getting a job in sales (put her strengths to use). Getting a car and moving out can come later.

    Finally, you're right that she needs to accept responsibility for her life and not allow herself to complain about or explain away anything. She'll do this when she's ready to. She also needs to learn that she teaches people how to treat her. This is also an aspect of accepting responsibility for her life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat View Post
    i think i want to marry your friend
    really? why?? guess i don't get the attraction.

    you sound like me estp. overfunctioning for people who can't get it together through their own direct efforts. not sure why i attract people like this and get involved in their controversies.

    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    She also needs to learn that she teaches people how to treat her.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    really? why?? guess i don't get the attraction.

    you sound like me estp. overfunctioning for people who can't get it together through their own direct efforts. not sure why i attract people like this and get involved in their controversies.
    because she is not inspired by society, which means she thinks for herself; and she is looking for happiness but can't find it in something which is fake and lost. So she is a real person lost in a dead world. I always get along with these kind of people the best, it's almost what I look out for. But they have to also be nice.. you know, not bitter assholes or anything. Just uninspired and cynical
    INTp

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    I agree wittmont...she doesn't care or understand the structure of world economy. She lives in a very sheltered mind set. She doesn't know too much about a lot of things...it's frustrating cuz I like to have intellectual & deep conversations. It's very hard for me to talk to her sometimes...because I get so frustrated by the glazed look in her eyes.

    I dont know why I am attracted to those types of people either Blaze, i think i view them as my project. Sorta like, brining up a full grown child. Because, if I can make someone that lazy turn themselves into something. It's as thought I'VE accomplished something, at the same time as theyve suceeded.

    As for the responses, very few of you have said HOW I should go about in helping her "wake up" instead you've told me all the "she should do this". I know WHAT she should do...I'm just starting to run out of ideas on HOW to do it.

    I do help her sometimes, but sometimes it's taking time away from me working on my life because I'm too busy working on hers and she's in hear head partying away.
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    why the fuck are you quoting yourself joy? are you really that proud of the thought you just came up with? Yeah, it's a good one congratulations
    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by ESTP View Post
    I agree wittmont...she doesn't care or understand the structure of world economy. She lives in a very sheltered mind set. She doesn't know too much about a lot of things...it's frustrating cuz I like to have intellectual & deep conversations. It's very hard for me to talk to her sometimes...because I get so frustrated by the glazed look in her eyes.

    I dont know why I am attracted to those types of people either Blaze, i think i view them as my project. Sorta like, brining up a full grown child. Because, if I can make someone that lazy turn themselves into something. It's as thought I'VE accomplished something, at the same time as theyve suceeded.

    As for the responses, very few of you have said HOW I should go about in helping her "wake up" instead you've told me all the "she should do this". I know WHAT she should do...I'm just starting to run out of ideas on HOW to do it.

    I do help her sometimes, but sometimes it's taking time away from me working on my life because I'm too busy working on hers and she's in hear head partying away.
    There's not much you can do that you haven't already done besides just let her make the mistakes she needs to make right now. Accept her as she is without judgment or making her problems into your problems. She'll get there eventually. Pressuring her won't do much aside from making her feel the need to defend her position.
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    She might even consider turning into a lesbian and meeting some nice girl like Joy. Then the two can build a home together and turn it into a church of science.
    INTp

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    in one of the descriptions for SEEs sumwhere it mentions how we are able to "walk by the graveyard whistling" which from my own experiences is true and cud very possibly be the case with her. also, it seems like people are enabling her to not get a job or license, etc. so why would she be motivated to go get these things? i often need to hit rock bottom to get a reality check and get my shit together- i think she may need the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wittmont View Post
    She needs to grow up pretty fast. The US is heading for the worst economic times since the 70's, the first real economic depression in many peoples' lifetime. She won't be able to get a job even if she wants to in 12 months time.

    Probably the only thing that can wake her up is life kicking her in the ass. First step is to get her to move out I guess. She needs to start her own life.
    +100
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    i often need to hit rock bottom to get a reality check and get my shit together- i think she may need the same.
    What do you think it would require for someone to say to you, so you would take heed before you hit the rock bottom? Or how would they have to present the idea to you? ...or something.

    For example: I think I got one ESFp to stop smoking (for a while ), although I wasn't even trying to make her stop smoking.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    What do you think it would require for someone to say to you, so you would take heed before you hit the rock bottom? Or how would they have to present the idea to you? ...or something.

    For example: I think I got one ESFp to stop smoking (for a while ), although I wasn't even trying to make her stop smoking.
    it's very hard for sumone to say sumthin to get me to stop sumthin... its usually not enuff however i cud see with an ILI i trust taking their advice... that's pretty much the only way i can think of of stopping... i think a lot of it is sumone sitting me down and telling me (cuz they genuinely care) what will happen if i dont change my behaviors. if they do it in a confrontational way ill probably be on the defensive tho and just act more irrationally to spite them. it's probably best if i ask for their help and am really prepared for what they're going to say- it won't be like "ILI i'm in deep shit- what should i do?!" cuz often i don't know it's a problem or a potential problem till i have to face the consequences. i'd probably bring it up with the ILI as "So-and-so told me I'm fucking up and that I'm gonna be in deep shit soon- do you think that's true?" or "(Insert negative feelings, emotions, etc. that have happened as a consequence of my bad actions) why am I feeling this way? is it valid? And then the follow up questions: Is what I'm doing bad? What could happen? What should/can I do to stop these consequences from happening?


    So yeah it basically comes down to someone stirring up enough emotional distress in me to start to think that maybe what i'm doing is a problem and me asking an ILI i trust to evaluate the situation and what i should do... for me, they're one of (if not the only) type that could really get through to me when it comes to stuff like this. On a side note (this is kinda random but it applies), my ESFp friend today referred to me as "consulting with his counselor" when we were in a group setting to ask for what he should do in reaction to another friend being mean haha... i think this is really how SEEs view ILIs and what we want and need from them.
    Last edited by liveandletlive; 07-29-2008 at 04:46 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hostage_Child View Post
    What's her reason for her situation? By choice? I'm somewhat in her situation, but it is mostly due to parental idiocy since LII idiot brother fucked his GPA while having two damn jobs and now I'm HOPING that maybe, just maybe I can land some work freelance or through gigging. LSE Te can drive me nuts, but I have to say his reasons are hard to argue against. BUT STILL.

    Sigh. I'm just saying this because some people live with retarded parents who exercise a nonsense approach to controlling their young adult kids, but I am aware she may just be being unmotivated, lazy, whatever you want to call it.
    How on earth could parents control their young adult kids? They can pressure, but the choice is still 100% the kid's.
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    Wow. I can definitely connect with your ESFp friend, I have SO been there. maybe not quite to that extent, but oh have I been there! If you want to PM me her MSN I'd love to chat with her. I'm an Alpha SF myself, most like SEI-Fe, which I suppose is the closest thing to ESFp? Anyway I could almost mirror that whole thing....

    There have been times where I haven't worked for a good 6 months....always when someone has done something really nasty and it hasn't ended well in whatever I was last doing. Whether or not I want to, I can get emotionally affected at work.

    As for the whole married guy thing, I've never done that, but I understand why she is pursuing something that is ultimately fruitless and destructive (having done that part myself!) ... there are a few reasons. A fear of being alone, but moreso, a fear of the unkown. This man being in her life has become the norm for her- I know from personal experience that it took me ages to leave my abusive relationship (years) with my now ex-husband for fear of the unkown. Even though the relationship was very destructive and I was constantly getting sick just from the stress alone, it had become habitual, and the familiarity of the process made me feel somewhat in control and gave me an understanding of what to expect day-to-day. It was like some kind kind of retarded version of having stability.

    The fear of what could be and losing control stopped me from moving on.

    It sounds like she is in a rut. There's no use judging her, and anyone that pushes her is going to make her resist change more, if she is anything like her. The only way to do it is to inspire her into it for herself- she needs to come to terms with her life herself, as hard as that seems.

    Rather than telling her to "get off her ass", why not take an interest in her career? Try and help her that way. Find out what she is passionate about, get her to take some career tests. There must be some things that she is good at that are also interest areas for her. If she can translate that into a job it could mean she becomes happy in a new position. Stop lending her money. Full stop. Stop everyone from lending her money.

    Listen to her and be supportive of her feelings with her relationships- do not support the relationships, they seem quite unhealthy, but support her as she goes through this. If her confidence improves she may find the strength to move on.

    She needs to get out of her parent's house, for sure, but a job would have to come first for financial reasons.

    She sounds like she needs a good friend right now. Try focusing more on being supportive and coming up with solutions, rather than highlighting the problem. Sometimes the "highlighting the problem" thing can work wonders, but to any good alpha SF, that will seem like the perfect moment to try a bit of anarchy and completely ignore you, or worse, respond in the opposite way to your desired outcome.

    Best of luck, and get her in touch with me

    I'm slowly on the improve and I'd love to be there for her and help her throug too

    You're a great friend for caring so much <3
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    what? you sure she's SEE?
    i really can't see the Se. lol
    either she's not a SEE or a pretty immature one.

    about you wanting to help her and she (obviously) isn't trying to help herself, try another method, or better; just ignore her.
    why waste your energy on someone who obviously does not want to be helped.
    INTp
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    i want to help her cuz

    a)shes my best friend
    b)i dont wanna see her fail
    c)im sick of picking up for her cuz i feel guilty and want to get her away from her home cuz her family life is fucked up
    d)im advancing in life she is still stuck in post-highschool mode and its shitty
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    HAH....i have an SLE best friend...this was hilarious. we should talk
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    i think my sister (ESFp) has a best friend who's ESTp as well She could be ESFp herself, though. I just know that her friend kind of reacts in the same way to her as you are describing, ESTP.

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    FWIW I think she sounds ESE>SEE btw <3
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    FWIW I think she sounds ESE>SEE btw <3
    LOL no.


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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    FWIW I think she sounds ESE>SEE btw <3
    i think she whines too much to be alpha.
    you're ESE-fe aren't you? that or SEI-fe
    Last edited by crazedrat; 07-30-2008 at 12:30 PM.
    INTp

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    Yeah, one of those
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    ESE doesn't make sense, but SEI might. She could very well be SEE though.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    By the way, "he goes or I go" ultimatums are very rarely (if ever) a good way to accomplish something (aside from getting that person out of your life). If you want her to get rid of that guy, subtly inspire her to consider herself as being worth more than a side fling. I'm sure she's got more to offer than that. She won't be ready for a happy, healthy relationship until she's happy and healthy in and of herself though.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Joy you read too much fucking dear abbey. you need to stop it before it overtakes your whole personality
    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    ESE doesn't make sense, but SEI might. She could very well be SEE though.
    why doesn't ESE make sense? because that description sounds irrational?

    im not sure, because i have this ESE acquaintance who parties almost everday, and doesn't work. unlike the description, this ESE lives off her friends rather than her parents.

    but if that friend is really SEE, really, try a different approach. You're using your Se to kinda give her push to what she should do, works better on your dual, not a SEE.

    i think an ILI would be very straight forward in telling her that she sux and why it sux, and how she's gonna end up a bum if she continues.
    INTp
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