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Thread: Strong Conscious and Unconscious Functions

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    Default Strong Conscious and Unconscious Functions

    While there is attention to the interrelation of the strong extroverted and introverted functions or how blocked pairs work in conjunction, there is little attention given to the interaction of strong unpaired functions.

    This project came about as a result of thinking on how Deltas may value strong Te and Ne, but they are not present in a single type within Delta quadra, but those strong elements are present in the NT Club. Even then, one of the information elements is conscious and valued and the other unconscious and unvalued. So it became a matter of determining what behavioral characteristics would be observably present based on the pairing of these strong information elements. None of these descriptions will hold equally strong for all the four types that share the traits due to the difference in function positions that causes the individual to emphasize a different aspects of the description.

    In many ways, there will be similarities, parallels, and overlaps seen in behavior and ability to that of clubs (NT, SF, NF, ST) and that is hardly surprising. Also unsurprisingly, these characteristics will be shared with quadras adjacent to the types. For example, the strong Ti + Ni present in the NT Club is valued in Beta, where Ti and Ni are valued. This is not intended to complicate things, but rather, it is merely to show how the various strong functions constantly interact and support each other and similarities between types.

    Ti + Ni (LII, ILE, LIE, ILI)
    I can recognize the cause and effect developments present in and between logical systems.

    These types are capable of assessing the causal consequences and hidden connections of systems, logic, and objective principles. They analytically can see how various systems unfold and change over time as well as abstract trends and patterns within them. They are able to project where a line of reasoning or argumentation is heading well in advance. Theories and systems are generally approached from the realm of the abstract imagination and with possible long-term effects.

    Te + Ne (LII, ILE, LIE, ILI)
    I can recognize the potential in the utility of external activities.

    These individuals are skilled at understanding the core essence of external phenomenon in reality. They are attuned to moments in activities or work of potential productivity and able to come up with an assortment of possible approaches to solving problems by drawing parallels, connections, or associations with other ideas. This also makes them naturally aware of the utility or accuracy of ideas rooted in the objective world.

    Ti + Si (LSI, SLE, LSE, SLI)
    I can recognize the logical connectedness of external physical processes.

    People of this pairing are often proficient at understanding how the system of rules and structures are manifested in very real physical processes and their immediate surroundings. These individuals are able to logically connect and determine the relationship between these dynamic physical interactions. They also know how to instinctively systematize or fit themselves comfortably within a position of rules and hierarchies.

    Te + Se (LSI, SLE, LSE, SLI)
    I can efficiently use my surroundings to achieve objects of desire and ambitions.

    People of this pairing are skilled at manipulating objects of their surroundings to solve problems of activity and work. They have enough willpower and confidence to effectively deal with real tangible problems in a proactive hands-on manner. This also means that these individuals know how to efficiently use their work activities to achieve their goals and ambitions to overcome challenges.

    Fi + Ni (EIE, IEI, EII, IEE)
    I can see how the emotional bonds between people and objects are formed and have changed.

    These individuals are capable of understanding the patterns and processes by which emotional bonds are formed between people and objects. They are adept at projecting the direction that emotional ties may be heading based upon their understanding of how the ties were formed and continue to change. As such, they may be critical of some relationships they or others form based upon their projections.

    Fe + Ne (EIE, IEI, EII, IEE)
    I can see the abstract essence of emotional states present in my surroundings.

    People of these types are able to see potential divergences in emotional states and can make associations with objects or people having similar or different feelings or moods. Emotional states for these types are generally less real and take on a more of an abstract understanding that makes them attuned to the emotional content of ideas. Emotional states can thereby have the potential to become idealized.

    Fi + Si (ESE, SEI, ESI, SEE)
    I can see the emotional bonds between people and things in their environmental experiences.

    These people are attentive to the relationships that exist between a person and objects or other people in their surroundings. They recognize and seek to comfortably harmonize their surroundings by making judgments of positive and negative reactions in relation to physical sensations and aesthetics. They may be especially concerned about how those they care for may fit in or react in their physical environment.

    Fe + Se (ESE, SEI, ESI, SEE)

    I can use and alter emotional states and surroundings as a means of fulfilling objectives.

    These individuals can recognize the emotional states and moods of surrounding peoples and objects. They can alter their physical environment in order to manipulate the moods of their surroundings to a desired effect, which also includes an awareness of the emotional effect that their manner of dress may have. This also makes them knowledgeable on how to use emotions as a means to achieving their goals through an appropriate amount of force or exertion.
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    omg logos unconsciously speaking we're duals!
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    omg logos unconsciously speaking we're duals!
    Oh dear.
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    Any other input as to the validity of these assertions based on people's observations?
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    Very good idea Logos.

    I agree with the Te + Se one, and I think the Beta STs and few Delta STs on here probably would too.

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    A few simplistic examples based on real-life observations:


    Ti+Ni : "visionary" ideas, which may be either brilliant or crackpot. I think it's the origin of the concept that there is a thin line dividing genius and insanity.

    Te+Ne: that's most easily visible in people with an inclination for inventiveness in every day objects and affairs.

    Ti+Si: most visible in those for an aptitude in, and inclination for, doing things like dismantling a motobike and putting it back together.

    Te+Se: very simply, a high focus on making money.

    Fi+Ni: a confident understanding on the long-term implications of relationships between individuals. "You'll never be happy if you marry him" etc.

    Fe+Ne: I think the best way to describe it would be "emotional easygoingness".

    Fi+Si: a confident understanding of the short-term, present reality situation of relationships. "He says that because he doesn't like you".

    Fe+Se: a focus on the social status the persons present, a concern with seeing who seems to have the "upper hand", who has got the attention, and respect, of those present. It's the guy who aims at being seen as "the man" in any social interaction, whether that means being the funniest, the most intelligent, most successful, or most whatever.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Te+Se: very simply, a high focus on making money.
    I would have put this down to LIEs and SEEs as opposed to STs. In fact, I didn't even know Delta STs were that concerned with making money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I would have put this down to LIEs and SEEs as opposed to STs. In fact, I didn't even know Delta STs were that concerned with making money.
    But they are concerned with not over-spending, and with getting good value for the money they do spend, which is a manifestation of the same thing.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    I see. So, by contrast, overspending for LIEs and SEEs isn't really an issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I see. So, by contrast, overspending for LIEs and SEEs isn't really an issue?
    In the short term, it's less of an issue.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I like both Logos' and Expat's descriptions
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    A few simplistic examples based on real-life observations:


    Ti+Ni : "visionary" ideas, which may be either brilliant or crackpot. I think it's the origin of the concept that there is a thin line dividing genius and insanity.

    Te+Ne: that's most easily visible in people with an inclination for inventiveness in every day objects and affairs.

    Ti+Si: most visible in those for an aptitude in, and inclination for, doing things like dismantling a motobike and putting it back together.

    Te+Se: very simply, a high focus on making money.

    Fi+Ni: a confident understanding on the long-term implications of relationships between individuals. "You'll never be happy if you marry him" etc.

    Fe+Ne: I think the best way to describe it would be "emotional easygoingness".

    Fi+Si: a confident understanding of the short-term, present reality situation of relationships. "He says that because he doesn't like you".

    Fe+Se: a focus on the social status the persons present, a concern with seeing who seems to have the "upper hand", who has got the attention, and respect, of those present. It's the guy who aims at being seen as "the man" in any social interaction, whether that means being the funniest, the most intelligent, most successful, or most whatever.
    I like these, though I think the Te + Se one may be a little alienating since it is rather specific to money. Having examples is quite beneficial. I may have to adjust these and possibly create a page for it on the Wikisocion, but I'm honestly not sure what exactly to call this approach.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    I like these, though I think the Te + Se one may be a little alienating since it is rather specific to money. Having examples is quite beneficial. I may have to adjust these and possibly create a page for it on the Wikisocion, but I'm honestly not sure what exactly to call this approach.
    You could add it to the clubs section?
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    This is interesting. Jung believed, and I agree with him, that the subconscious is far stronger than the conscious part of our psyche. However in Model A it seems it is split up in a 50/50 relation or even that the conscious part is dominant over the subconscious part.

    Has there been any discussion about this question in socionics?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wittmont View Post
    This is interesting. Jung believed, and I agree with him, that the subconscious is far stronger than the conscious part of our psyche. However in Model A it seems it is split up in a 50/50 relation or even that the conscious part is dominant over the subconscious part.

    Has there been any discussion about this question in socionics?
    I think that what Jung meant when he was speaking about subconcious is something totally different than socionics function, something more similar to Jung's superego-ego-id division
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    but I'm honestly not sure what exactly to call this approach.
    Probably not the best name, but maybe something like Interquadra Functional Usage? I know it's not strictly inter-quadra, since it's within the same individual, but since it's taking quadra values from the individual's quadra and also an adjacent one...I dunno, just thought it might inspire a better name if nothing else.
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