Mirror Relations: Stories and Experiences

[Ms. Kensington]

I would like to start a new thread about mirror relations that are romantic.

Im just wondering if others feel that their mirrors are more attractive than their duals, your romantic experiences with them, theory about why they affect you a certain way, if NTs STs SFs and what have you are more likely to form mirror couples, etc.

Yes, there is personal motivation for this but I don't think it really matters. I'll take the answer off the air. (Basically i'm just confused as to why i'm so attracted to my mirror and wonder if others have the same experience, etc). Im not trying to make it about me.

[Expat]

I would like to start a new thread about mirror relations that are romantic.

Im just wondering if others feel that their mirrors are more attractive than their duals, your romantic experiences with them, theory about why they affect you a certain way, if NTs STs SFs and what have you are more likely to form mirror couples, etc.

Yes, there is personal motivation for this but I don't think it really matters. I'll take the answer off the air. (Basically i'm just confused as to why i'm so attracted to my mirror and wonder if others have the same experience, etc). Im not trying to make it about me.

I don't think mirrors are necessarily more attractive than their duals; I do think that mirror couples are very common, because they share the quadra values and the club, so mirrors are people who often share common interests and views, at first seemingly more than duals. Mirrors are perhaps easier to undertand even before getting to know them well.

For instance, following cliches (which have some basis on truth), who are more likely to hang around in the same circles and do the same kind of actitivies, INTjs and ESFjs, or INTjs and ENTps? I think that's the main factor.

[Lotus]

INTjs are always hiding from me.
I can never find one!

Well, there was this one who was studying
to be an architect
who told me he would build me a house,
but I wasn't into his style (wraparoundporcheskindofstuff),
so I declined.

But man, I loved his hair!
No one else did, but wow.
It was like brown and curly and past his jawbone
and it was like big enough to hide things in
and it was seriously like the most
amazing hair I have ever seen and I wanted
to put my phone in it so bad
and then call it to see if he knew
because I would probably just think
that it was just in my head
but not him because he was so smart
and would definitely have noticed
a cell phone in his hair cause he was just
that kind of cell phone in the hair noticing kind of
person right right?




On second thought, he might be another type.

[redbaron]

One of my best friends is married to her mirror. They met in grad school and were drawn together through similar intellectual interests. They happen to be INTj-ENTp and they have a very good marriage (going on 15 years). The one major negative (and imo it's a pretty big negative) is that there's a lack of emotional expression (positive, towards each other) in the marriage. Neither of them are good at this and they both need it. On the other hand there isn't much negative expression either and the home is a very emotionally even-keeled one and quite logical (which I admire myself and wish we had around here!) Sex life is sketchy also but they're the best of friends and do love each other deeply. When I talk to her, I can clearly see how she would appreciate MY husband (her dual, ESFj) because he's so expressive and doesn't hold back his feelings. We have the opposite problem around here (SO much emotion, positive but negative too), lots of sex (not that that's a problem), LOL

As for me, I admire my mirror but I've never been attracted to that type in that kind of way.

[theMime.]

I came back from the dead to answer this.

I personally find my mirrors very attractive and I'm more often attracted to them instead of my duals.

But I kinda feel like although I'm usually more attarcted to my mirrors I'm still more compatable with my duals. Does that make sense?

Not to say that I'm not attracted to my duals.
There's actually one ENTp that I find insanely attractive.
It's just more often it's an ESFj than an ENTp that I'm attracted to.

But I think maybe there needs to be a distinction between compatability and attraction...seems weird but I think it's possible for us to be attracted to people we're not compatable with. Expat, what do you think about all this?

[theMime.]

Does anyone else have anything to say about this topic?
Theories?
Personal experiences?
Anything?

[meatburger]

Does anyone else have anything to say about this topic?
Theories?
Personal experiences?
Anything?

Who was i talking to.. Someone on the forum who said that Mirror relationships are lacking a certian fire to them. Mrs Kensington i think? I actually agree with this. I had a date a while ago with an INFj girl and we both went all quiet and didn't talk much. It was fairly comfortable though. I think the poor thing was shocked when i said we should just be friends, because she took it personally (when she was awesome). She also agreed the sexual attraction wasn't really there.

[Blaze]

But in time, they become more friendship then a relationships as you possess the same strengths and weaknesses and there is no mutual strengthening and synergy of viewpoints. In a mirror relationship, things may get quite tense because of rational and irrational approaches to life problems.

...not to mention temperaments. IJ is the ring of supervision, conflict, and mirror for me....guess mirror is the best but yeah these relations may be best for friends.

ms. k, are you sure you aren't mistaking mirror for supervisor? i could see how an SLE and an LII could get along...

[ScarlettLux]

Icky. I don't want another Victim. I don't want to be in a relationship with a worse version of me ... oh burn, IEIs. Or EIEs? Hehe.

Really though - I don't find Mirror relationships attractive for romance AT ALL. There is no spark, and actually I think mirror relationships are the worst of all intraquadra relations. I have just experienced a lot of conflict with my mirror(s) ... you're so similar, yet you can't strengthen eachother, AND you disagree on a lot of things. It's not like identity, it's worse.

I need difference in a relationship ... complementary difference, that is. Beta ST is all fire.. mm-mm, pass the chocolate. My LSI girl friend & I have the most amazing conversations. We fire eachother up. I love LSIs, but that's a known fact around this forum I find my identicals and mirrors quite annoying. It just feels like I am competing with them.

[EllaC]

Mirror's are sooo attractive... it's like finally finding someone like you, just a tiny bit different. I think I'd be very happy with a mirror relationship but there'd probably be something telling me that I needed something else and off I'd go hunting for that again. Maybe anyway.

[BLauritson]

I love mirror relations.. for me personally, they're second only to dual relations, although both relationship types are fun in their own ways. I've never been in a romantic relation with a mirror, although there is a female LIE on a college course I'm doing that I've sort of got my eyes on. Based on what interaction I have had with LIEs, I find that working together works very well (we seem to naturally understand eachother's ways of going about tasks) and conversation is usually quite fun. I haven't had enough extensive interaction with mirrors outside of work to really comment on that, but I don't think I've ever had a bad experience with an LIE.

[tiny_dancer]

I'm not sure how a mirror relationship for me would be. The only male INFj I know is my coworker, and he seems pretty cool and laid back. He's really easy to talk to.. I get along well with them, but some issues I've had with a couple female INFjs were that they seemed to look down their nose at me for certain things.. That would drive me freakin' crazy if I knew my significant other was looking at me with condescension for things that I'm not very good at (ie - organizing every last detail of my life). I always get the feeling they're trying to be my mom. Who knows, though. Maybe I'll end up meeting a guy and think differently...

[xyz]

I'm not sure how a mirror relationship for me would be. The only male INFj I know is my coworker, and he seems pretty cool and laid back. He's really easy to talk to.. I get along well with them, but some issues I've had with a couple female INFjs were that they seemed to look down their nose at me for certain things.. That would drive me freakin' crazy if I knew my significant other was looking at me with condescension for things that I'm not very good at (ie - organizing every last detail of my life). I always get the feeling they're trying to be my mom. Who knows, though. Maybe I'll end up meeting a guy and think differently...

Yeah I get that too sometimes. I just ignore em tho

But I think maybe there needs to be a distinction between compatability and attraction...seems weird but I think it's possible for us to be attracted to people we're not compatable with. Expat, what do you think about all this?

Well you're right on the money there.

[tiny_dancer]

I seem to have a cold detatchment to INFj's, while not minding to hang around them

YES. But why... WHY?!

I agree, it's pretty weird. I'll never understand it.

[xyz]

I like my mirrors, duals, semi duals, hell i can even respect my conflictors.

But my supervisors can go fuck themselves

[theMime.]

I like my mirrors, duals, semi duals, hell i can even respect my conflictors.

But my supervisors can go fuck themselves

really?

weird how that is...some of us love supervisory relationships and some of us hate em.

the only ESTj I know, I like.

I like my kindreds. =)

[xyz]

really?

weird how that is...some of us love supervisory relationships and some of us hate em.

the only ESTj I know, I like.

I like my kindreds. =)

I found those supervisory relationships can be devious because yes, I can get along with them, but when something out of the ordinary happens or when we disagree we vehemently stand our ground.

[theMime.]

I found those supervisory relationships can be devious because yes, I can get along with them, but when something out of the ordinary happens or when we disagree we vehemently stand our ground.

hmmmmmmmmm

*starts an argument with an ESTj*

[xyz]

Basically I view most supervisors in too great of a position to hurt you.

[implied]

Basically I view most supervisors in too great of a position to hurt you.

yeah, which seems pretty much like that would nullify any possible romantic relationship.

[Ms. Kensington]

...not to mention temperaments. IJ is the ring of supervision, conflict, and mirror for me....guess mirror is the best but yeah these relations may be best for friends.

ms. k, are you sure you aren't mistaking mirror for supervisor? i could see how an SLE and an LII could get along...

well I know that the kind im talking about are a certain subtype, I think it's the Ti subtype so they would be "closer" to an ESTp right? It's very distinct feeling they produce in me. It's like someone is taking an ice-cream scoop to my entrails.

Mimey, yes you're absolutely right you can be attracted to someone that's not compatible with you, just from common experience. Sometimes I wonder if such an attraction must always end up indefinitely in defeat/ashes. I have a question for you: is the ENTp you're "insanely attracted to" more attractive than the ESFjs you have met? I know it depends on the ESFj...

[Ms. Kensington]

And also its quite possible to have a dual that is simply too unnattractive for you to consider for youself i think. I actually find the same with INFjs. We just want to argue about everything. It can be a little draining.

The INFj i went out with i could actually see us having a civil and compatible relationship for 5 years or perhaps longer. Its just i knew there was no real physical spark.

also I don't think it was me who said that there wasn't fire lol... um... yeah. I mean I think I could see it being different for different clubs. I actually did utter these very words and have them said to me with my mirror. (i feel like im on fire with you)

[theMime.]

Mimey, yes you're absolutely right you can be attracted to someone that's not compatible with you, just from common experience. Sometimes I wonder if such an attraction must always end up indefinitely in defeat/ashes. I have a question for you: is the ENTp you're "insanely attracted to" more attractive than the ESFjs you have met? I know it depends on the ESFj...

No, the ENTp I've met isn't more attractive than the ESFjs I was attracted to.

[iAnnAu]

I'm dating an ESTj right now. One of the first things I noticed about him is that he was wearing the same kind of shoes I was. After several months of just being friends-of-friends, we learned enough about one another to realize that
1) we're a lot more reliable about doing what we say we'll do than our other buds
2) we both like going dancing and playing pool (and since then he's taken up table tennis for me and I've taken up footbag for him)
3) we both like to make extremely cutting jokes, and to keep up witty banter for as long as possible, but then can drop it as soon as it gets tiresome for either of us
4) we both have an inordinate appreciation for well-shaped female rear ends, and delight in pointing them out to one another
5) we're both workaholics while at work, and like to work as little as possible away from work - also we can't stand people who don't think for themselves; either of us could have come up with that "work smarter not harder" cliche (a lot of our conversation ends up being about logical inconsistencies we are forced to endure at our respective wage-slave-pens)
...
All this eventually led to us discovering that not only do we wear the same kind of shoes (which each of us bought long before we met one another) ...
we also wear the same kind of socks (white Hanes)! (If it isn't obvious, we figured this out the first time we slept together)
We still crack up about that.

Oh yeah, and neither of us is good about talking about "us". We don't use endearments like "honey" or "dear" nor do we have "our" song. It was mainly just two friends who have fun together who decided to become fuck buddies and then eventually something else developed.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

"However, Mirror partners are often very good friends. When they work together on the same project, their mutual correction and adjustment becomes a constructive criticism that is usually accepted as useful."

This is so true. I corrected Chris on one of his videos and he actually listened to me and edited the part I didn't like out. (He never told me thanks for this or was very warm about it, he just did it.) Don't know why exactly he did that, since you'd think he would go "Fuck you I'm a fag I do what I want, BITCH!" but he found the information useful.

This socionics stuff really seems to be working, although I hope I'm not just finding evidence for what I'm trying to see. I'll continue to do more tests though.

[Darkstar]

Hah!

[xyz]

hah!

[ScarlettLux]

Lmao, I love that guy for some reason.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I don't know about love, but we would get along together as friends. Chris can also be surprisingly practical at times while still providing the warm, loving & encouraging atmosphere that I need. (I know that sounds deceptively ESFj, but he's just way too activist-y and 'I want to change the world' instead of, 'I want to use the world's resources to be comfortable.')

ESFjs (er ESEs sorry I'll try to talk in correct socionics-speak) make horrible activists because they are just too concerned with providing comfort in exchange for really, honest change in the world- which requires more push and and uncomfortableness. In fact I have never met any good ESE activist, I just couldn't picture it. Oh well we'll bash alpha another day.

[ScarlettLux]

as I type more and more people in real life, and watch and see the typings become more or less "validated" by observing their intertype relationships, I just can't see socionics as bullshit, really.

Yep =D

[Wittmont]

as I type more and more people in real life, and watch and see the typings become more or less "validated" by observing their intertype relationships, I just can't see socionics as bullshit, really.

Absolutely. I have seen this too in real life. Before I knew socionics existed, yet now so many things make more sense in hindsight.

I often think what you say here, Glamourama, is the strong point of socionics. The observed behaviour of people and how they interact with other types. I am not sure the model A is a totally accurate description of how the psyche is constructed, but I do think the 'observed behaviour' part has a lot of merit.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Which video was it by chance?

Gay guys vs. women. The video he had before (wasn't up very long), the tone of his voice just seemed too whiny/faux-angry where he was indirectly shooting all gays (and women) in the foot. So he changed the flavor of it to sound more rational and confident.

But he's done this a few times before. Put his videos up, but then edited something about them and put them back up again. I'm online way too much than I should be, so I usually catch these quirks. It just shows that he's extremely careful of what he says; he cares very much about doing the right thing. My god other articles have painted him as bad for the gay community that's just plain silly, stupid and overly harsh LMAO.

[Jarno]

It sucks.

Yes you are good friends, but next to that, you only quarrel, both don't understand what the other person is trying to say. You get accusations etc etc. Both think the other person is stupid.

I say it's the worst quadra relationship, both romantically as for friendship.

What are your experiences?

[Jarno]

Um, are you sure you're typing your mirrors correctly? They're not like that at all.

how are mirrors then?

[Jarno]

Ugh. I hate when people ask questions like that. What do you want, a description? Mirrors are a lot of things.

Yes I would like to know why you think hot disputes like I have described aren't part of a mirror relationship.

[Jarno]

You pick out "hot disputes" from a number of other characteristics you described in your post and ask me why this isn't found in mirror relations. Please, obviously I am not disagreeing with one specific trait, but rather, the entire impression of the relation you described.

The hot disputes, which have all the elements which I have described are the frustrating part of the mirror relationship which (in my case) seem to overwhelm the good parts of the relationship.

It might be because a mirror relationship in my case consist of an ILI and LIE who are both known to not back up when discussing a subject. Discussing is something they both like, and therefor it often ends up to a so called hot dispute.

Just wondering how it is in other mirror relationships.

[meatburger]

I dont think mirrors are the worst quadra relationship. I think identicals would be worse (i see relationships as long term and i dont think identicals would ever work long term). I also think Mirror relationships would be better than a whole lot of other out of quadra relationships thats for sure.

Interestingly, an INTp and ENTj relationship of my friend just disintegrated recently out of the blue. They were together for about 5 years. Everyone thought they were a wonderful couple (i mostly did too), and they didn't ever seem to fight. Then one day she said shes moving, he didn't want to and poof all over.

I actually understand the arguments that Jarno is talking about. I find INFj's do want to argue with me every now and then. Its very annoying and draining to me and it does push me away. I also perceive some level of competition from them. My INFj friend tells me things like "I really think this move will be good for you, you really need to do something with your life". While this is true, comming from him its laughable because he really needs to take his own advice. Its also just socially unacceptable the way he just blurts it out.

I also think all mirror relationships are different, and some are better than others. When mirror relationships are good, they can be soo warm and nice and fun and awesome. I dont think im gonna persue one if i can help it though.

[Jarno]

I find INFj's do want to argue with me every now and then. Its very annoying and draining to me and it does push me away. I also perceive some level of competition from them.

Exactly. I recognize this.

[FDG]

Well, the thing is, when two thinking resolute mirrors start to argue, the verbal spar will unlikely end soon. So, while I think it's easy to get along with your mirror, I also think that it's easy to destroy the relationship with one big bout of misunderstanding. Probably two feeling mirror types are better at getting over (or avoiding) disputes.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Mirrors have vastly different lifestyle ideals, but very similar raw values. So they're good for phone conversations, or maybe to join for a political cause together, but don't make very good bedfellows.