Actually its not. Why do people think that science is infallible? Its a faith based subject just like any other fucking thing.
Actually its not. Why do people think that science is infallible? Its a faith based subject just like any other fucking thing.
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Without science, we wouldn't have toasters!
Because it gathers Observable - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia , Empirical - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and measurable Evidence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia subject to specific principles of Reasoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ?Originally Posted by hitta
Scientific method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
INFj
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Actually I become annoyed when I hear about the scientific method, because of its irrelevantness. We do the scientific method with everything. Human reasoning is the scientific method. Besides, I can promise you that there has been more study done on astrology then any other science in the world.
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Observable=Empirical=Perceptions.
But the big weakness of science is in the jump from evidence to theory - a theory can never follow deductively from specific observations.
What on earth? Ssmall has no connection to the occult. Now, Socionics has had problems with descriptions being too specific to apply outside a certain culture; I think this is similar. "Occult" is too specific - what is it about the occult that Ssmall should be interested in?
My birth was on March 26, 1988, in Las Vegas, Nevada, in the wee hours of the morning (let's try 2:00 AM).
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
You probably have a strong obsession with the dark kind of futuristic energy that is in Star Wars(think Tatooine). You are a good coaching type of personality that usually has a single minded purpose towards reaching an individualized goal. You usually put your energy and optimism into one idea or one purpose and you tend to drive towards it. Besides that you probably have a very charming style of picking up your mate. You probably like the thrill of the chase with partners. You probably enjoy competition a lot.
Your father is probably quiet laid back, and possibly somewhat lazy. Hes probably spiritual and tolerant in a lot of regards. Your mother is probably more of a fast and witty talker, and probably more logical overall.
You are probably ambivalent to religion. You would probably prefer to be more involved in chatty business style communication between people. You probably have a great desire to talk to foreigners or to explore different forms of communication. You're thinking is probably very theoretical and aloof, probably like the typical mad scientist. You probably have the natural emotions of a parental figure. Deeply grounded in the natural forces in the world. You probably enjoy home life. You probably have a deep emotional needed to be connected to every living entity.
You aren't the best decision maker. You probably have an extremely hard time making your mind up on things. You probably do a lot of things for people and often get nothing in return. You like philosophy and spiritual studies. The sign you were born in is said to "want to be absorbed in things like water". Usually the sign is religious on a basic level, though you have ketu in the 9th so this probably won't show through. Career wise, Id guess something in electrical sciences(usually abstract inventions and things like that), as your 10th lord mercury is in Aquarius.
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And um, the Zodiac doesn't try to avoid scientific probabilities. Horoscope magazines do.
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hitta, can you find out my description? I was born at 16:55 on the 29th of March 1987, in Sheffield, UK.
Do you think the description is reflective of me?
holy shit, you were born close to me.
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Is that significant?
If you were both born in the same place at the same time, then you're the same person.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
That's great!
Have they used any scientific methods? And what were the results?
Have you ever thought about science in anyway of proving something to yourself instead of proving it to everyone else? I like reputation, but to me the truth is more important. When I do research, I don't use a scientific method checklist. I sometimes go through the "scientific method" to prove something to my self, but I don't do it because its the "scientific method"; it's just natural.
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Although there might be more (and maybe better) ways than scientific, at this moment Zodiac's truth is more or less based on believe and faiths.
Believing without evidence at all is naive.
So is believing in evidence. Belief itself is naive, yet its something that the human mind is predisposed to doing. You assume you have such a grasp on everything. That your mental perspective is infallible.
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the zodiac is more like what socionics is.
Seeing certain patterns, but being unable (currently) to trace them back to any specific causes.
The end is nigh
Nope.This is irrelevant to whether zodiac is correct or not. No sane person would believe in something that never works.Belief itself is naive,Maybe, but it's more accurate to say it's prone to rationalising things.yet its something that the human mind is predisposed to doing.
Pretty much. I like how people like to point the finger at someone for doing something and they do the exact same thing. I'm sure that Jarno studied socionics for years and years, THEN read a type description and was like "This is so me"(sarcasm).
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How do you know whether or not it works? You have never even tested it. People have been studying astrology for 1000s of years in India, China and other eastern countries. Entire religions are based on it like Hinduism.
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The truth is that most people stay away from things like astrology because they seem weird to them.
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I don't.
And here is where you are wrong.
Types do exist and are proven when tested, Zodiac descriptions not.
Socionics is NOT the same as Zodiac.
Yes it's true that a lot of people believe in Gods etc.
Is that your argument to say they are right? Because everybody sais so?
I remember a nice aneqdote from the philosopher Bacon:
A group of people were arguing how many teeth a horse has. They tried to find the answer in the bible and argued for hours, until there was some shy boy who said, "why don't we just look into the mouth of a horse and count the teeth". The boy was then accused of being a satan worshipper by not using the bible and sent away (!)
Hitta is one of the people who refuses to look into the mouth of the horse.
Tested by who? You?
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You are the one that doesn't want to look in the "mouth of the horse". You think its too dirty.
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The important thing here is that the other descriptions are not him. If each person is one type to the exclusion of all others, then the theory clears. If the theory consists of one type description that applies to everyone, then it clears (as a tautology). If the theory consists of multiple types that can apply to everyone, then we have a problem.
With regard to the birthdate affecting personality: I would expect the angle of a person's head coming out of the womb to have more effect on personality than the positions of the planets and stars relative to each other, for the same reason that the positions of the planets and stars would affect personality.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
This description fits me vaguely on a few points, but it's less than 50%. However, I get the impression that this is your own interpretation of what the Zodiac actually says. How about showing me the actual sign connections (i.e. 10th lord mercury in Aquarius, 9th lord Ketu in xxxx [?])? Also, which of those sign connections would change within a few hours of the given time?
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
It's funny to see in which way you try to avoid critic.
You live in a world of your own. Unreachable.
No the socionics institute. I rather accept their conclusions then those of
a bunch of religious hippies.
Well probably some, though I gave you a very vague reading. The lagna would change, which would alter the entire chart order.
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Dude, astrology has been studied by actual scientists for a long time. You've never heard of the mars effect.
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What is this "lagna" and how does it work?
I have an idea of using the Zodiac to predict my time of birth based on my personality, then going back and asking my parents when it really was.
LII-Ne
"Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million typewriters, and the Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare!"
- Blair Houghton
Johari
I know it is studied, but what's more important, the results...
I've just read the mars effect. When scientist tried to check wether astrology is a serious predictor, everything showed that it did not predict, except for the planet mars. There was somewhat of a correlation.
Wow of all the experiments, everything came out negative except for 1 that gave a slightly positive result. Probably because simply coincidence. That is all but convincing.
Are you stupid or something? The test was only done on athletes. Mars is the planet correlated with aggression and strength.
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I'm not stupid when I present facts.
scientist have checked all different astrology branches, multiple times. Please read wikipedia.
The only thing that somewhat correlated was mars.
Honestly, I don't care if astrology is true or not. In fact, I'm quite skeptical that it is. However, to me, the truth serves a function - it is only important insofar as it leads one to happiness. If someone believed in astrology and it made them happy even though it is false, then what difference would it make? For some people, learning the absolute truth makes them happy. For others, it doesn't. The only time that someone would be creating a problem for themselves would be if knowing the truth would lead to more happiness than believing in fallacies, and I'm not so sure that not believing in astrology would lead anyone to a more fulfilling life.
Jason
Last edited by jason_m; 03-21-2009 at 05:19 AM.
I don't have problem with people getting happy about astrology or zodiac.
But I do have a problem with people who say that the claims zodiac makes are true. That makes me unhappy, cause I don't like bullshit information and sharlatans.
Modern day astrology does have a basis on alchemy, but since they began adding new planets, signs, and asteroids it has become bs basically.
Anyone who claims that socionics has no connection to the zodiac is extremely misinformed. The socion is 100% the western zodiac. Model A is also heavily derived from the vibrational attributes of the Zodiac and also the planets.
In any case, this topic is being talked about in an informed, nonbiased, nonprejudiced way over at the metasocion.com forums. Obviously there really is no place for discussion for this on this forum on account of peoples biased assumptions and prejudices, thinking they know more than they do about socionics than they actually do and whatnot. Any mention of this brings objection obviously.
Please quote where Augusta sais that Socionics is based on Zodiac.
If you can't, then you are a big liar.
Augusta is dead. You can not ask her. Any speculated silence on her part also does not disprove anything I have said. Calling me a liar on the premise that Augusta may have been silent is also not a valid argument against what I have claimed. It only shows that you are prejudiced against certain facts and want to downplay any evidence that things are a certain case when the evidence is blatantly obvious and staring you square in your face.
I will even make one more claim, and that is that Augusta did not truly invent socionics. She borrowed nearly all the information from other sources, and that even includes the intertype relationship descriptions. All she did was compile it together and package it. Years later it gets to the United States and a bunch of ignorant americans who learn socionics from badly translated and possibly distorted information think it has nothing to do with cosmology, the zodiac, alchemical laws, mystic groups such as the roscruxians and sufis, even when the facts face them square in the face that socionics was derived from all of those things you just sit back and deny. You are just like gullible little children who close their eyes and wish an imaginary monster to go away, except the monster is real. That is the truth of the matter.
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