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Thread: ESI-IEE Supervision Relations (ISFj and ENFp)

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    Default ESI-IEE Supervision Relations (ISFj and ENFp)

    Quote Originally Posted by IcEPiCk
    Have any of you ENFPs been with an ISFJ? an ENTP?
    Just recently I got out of a relationship with an ISFJ. It was quite an experience. Please don't take what I say next as me being bitter, because I'm not, in the end I still care for this person - no matter how misguided they may be. But my experience with this (definite) ISFJ was not favourable at all.

    She was controlling, manipulative & insecure - all in a very very subtle way. Her emotions, polar opposite to mine, were hidden and obfuscated. I highly suspect her feelings weren't what she proclaimed (to me it felt she was not as fond of me as she claimed) but she was very persistant in not letting me get away, keeping me tied to her in some way, she did this with very subtle manipulation - said all the right words and yet delivered very little. She talked shit about people she considered to be her best friends, it was kind of like "he's [negative, negative, negative]." And then she later she would claim how much she loved this person. I would be naive to believe she didn't do this about me, hell, one person she shunned (because he was in contact with someone she loathed) told me, quite categorically that she talked shit about me. But I am naive, and chose not to believe this. She was a master at making me feel guilty, trapping me into doing things her way. I'd never met someone before that could actually make me feel guilty for liking them.

    I could quite seriously go on for a very long time about how draining emotionally and spiritually this was for me. I learnt a lot from it though, and is most definitely an experience I will not repeat - ever.
    ENFP - Ethical Subtype.
    In touch with semireality.

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    I keep telling you guys ... stay away from relations of supervision! It is an abusive relationship!

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    damn straight... you learn a lot from them though
    {♠x<º))))><¸.·´¯`·.¸IcEPiCk¸.·´¯`·.¸><((((º>x♠ }

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    Default IEE-ESI supervision relations (ISFj & ENFp)

    What does the supervision relationship look like between the ISFj and ENFp?
    What does it feel like to be supervised by an ENFp?
    What does it feel like to supervise an ISFj?
    Thanks.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    This video shows an ISFj (Christopher Hitchens) interacting with an ENFp (Andrew Sullivan).

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=WM3k3yxal0E
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
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    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    From my biased ISFj perspective:

    The ENFp starts making Ne objections to what is perceived as "harshness" or "missing the point" by the ISFj's rigid Se implementation of their Fi.

    ISFj: That person is evil and should be killed.

    ENFp: You can't say that. He could have a mental condition, or maybe he was abused as a child, things that can affect even the best of us and make us do bad things, but that doesn't mean that we're actually evil people who don't have any good potential.

    The ISFj's Ti sees that what the ENFp is saying is technically legitimate, but the ISFj can't produce the Ni or Te required to mount a defense against what he sees as largely irrelevant Ne whale blubber.

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    Hitchens: "He is being a shifty hypocrite and should be discredited for it."

    Sullivan: "He is being candid and accepting and should be commended for it."


    It's all just pure, pointless speculation about Obama's character, as far as I can see. I mean it is vaguely relevant, but when you look at how deeply rooted every politician's actions are in their party's interests and in the scope of public favor, getting elected again, maintaining public unity, etc, and add to that what is actually a VERY limited set of powers awarded to the president that are at the mercy of his "character," just about everything they are talking about becomes pointless and trite in comparison to the global applicability of his proposed policies, those of his party, how the candidate proposes to react to the trends in political climate and world events, etc. Even "following through" on these campaign promises has virtually nil to do with a president's personal integrity, desire to please the public, etc etc, and more to do with the economic and political feasibility of what they propose.

    ...That went on for way longer than I meant it to
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Okay I'm starting to get this. I have a lot of ENFp friends and I just didn't get how they were supervising me but I can kind of see it now. Thanks for your input guys.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    It would have been pretty easy to shut Sullivan down. Just point out the inconsistency between everything that Obama has said and done during his political career and Sullivan's bizarre fellatiotic obsession with him.

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    Default ISFjs in conflict and supervision relations

    ESI's, I'm interested in your experiences with leading Ne types. What do you think of IEE's, how does it feel interacting with them? Do you feel supervised? how do you feel about their using of Fi?
    and then ILE's, your conflictors... how does it go in that case? does the description of intertype relations match the real life ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marietta View Post
    ESI's, I'm interested in your experiences with leading Ne types. What do you think of IEE's, how does it feel interacting with them? Do you feel supervised? how do you feel about their using of Fi?
    and then ILE's, your conflictors... how does it go in that case? does the description of intertype relations match the real life ?
    I get along well with most IEEs but I think temperament prevents us from being able to hang out all the time like I can with other types. Sometimes IEEs can annoy me by being purposefully unpredictable or wanting to change the plan all the time. I don't usually feel supervised. I think some IEEs have attempted but fail since I don't care about their Ne advice lol. Their Fi seems more situational like SEEs. It can be confusing at times. I feel like IEEs discriminate who they associate with more than SEEs. Maybe its the aristocracy thing.

    With ILEs I just don't seem to make friends with them at all. We have different circles of friends and ILEs generally make me feel uncomfortable by being loud and boisterous. I just try to be polite because they haven't really done anything to me. They are just different.
    “No psychologist should pretend to understand what he does not understand... Only fools and charlatans know everything and understand nothing.” -Anton Chekhov

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    i've got to know an IEE guy but he was constantly in gay bitch mode so i can't say i've had a real relationship of supervision ;<
    ILEs are fun though.they're infantile after all.
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    I will reply to this because most people here believe I'm ESI...

    My best friend growing up was IEE. We didn't exactly choose to be friends, we just found ourselves pushed together and bonded over our mutual love of reading and the fact that we didn't know anyone else our age (homeschooled). We argued constantly and I felt like I couldn't trust her. I also thought she was really rude to people she didn't like, whereas I try to always maintain a level of politeness even if I hate someone's guts, but I doubt this is type-related on her part. We used to write stories together when we were like twelve and I was always jealous because she was so much more creative and imaginative than I was, haha. Much later in life, a few years after I had moved out of my parents' house and she was still living with her parents (and complaining about it a lot!), I got a bit frustrated with her lack of gumption () and tried to tell her that she should just "help herself" and that there was no point in complaining if you weren't going to do anything about it and that anything is possible if you just put your mind to it, etc.,etc., and needless to say she didn't take it very well. We don't really talk anymore.

    I have trouble ILEs seriously. I've tried to, I really have. I can enjoy their company... but I usually end up laughing at pretty much everything they say, just because I find the entire situation funny.
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    Default IEE supervison of ESI

    How does the IEE supervise the ESI? In particular, how is it that the IEE implements their agenda through the ESI? What is the agenda of the IEE and why does the ESI get to do it. (This is Gulenko's stuff I am thinking of.)

    Also are these good examples of ESIs ????

    Example #1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8u42OjH0ss

    Example # 2

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYUj_a0z8Ws

    Example # 3

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPtvG9rdQTY

    Example # 3.1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPtvG9rdQTY

    I think implementation is essentially this. The supervisee is better at the supervisor's creative function, but cannot provide input into the supervisor's program function, thus making the supervisee a tool. So the IEE wants to create an Fi agenda, and the ESI's program function Fi is the best tool for that, and she cannot deviate from the IEEs guidance on the Ne aspect of the agenda. Now I need concrete examples of this.

    Imagine that you are the CEO of a major national art gallery and you just hired an ESI to work as the head curator (responsible for all departments) ... what is the agenda????
     
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    i dont think these are good examples of esis .maybe the last one.then again i had the sound off.
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    Based on this sample ESI-IEE conversation taken from another thread:

    Meatburger (IEE): Ne Polr / supervision conversation between me and my ISFj mum:
    "Hey mum i have been reading about this guy that hijacked a bus in Rio De Janeiro"
    "oh thats terrible"
    "Yeah. He didn't have a father, his mother was killed in front of him as a kid and he was beaten as a street kid by police"
    "That doesn't excuse what he did"
    "But mum you have to understand that his actions were due to how traumatic his life has been"
    "He could choose to be nice if he wanted too"
    "No your just not getting it. You were brought up in a perfectly happy environment and thats largely why your nice. If you hadn't been loved when you were younger you could be the one on the bus etc..."
    Anyway after a bit more of that i decided i was being mean and stopped.

    Rick (IEE): "I know a IEE + ESI daughter-mother combination among my relatives, and that's exactly the type of conversations they inevitably drift to. The conversations are about people, and the IEE always tries to show objective factors that shaped the person's personality and character, and the ESI always tries to say that the person should be different because that behavior is incorrect, bad, immoral, etc. Every single time, for decades."

    I got the impression that the IEE views someone's personality as a something malleable, something free-flowing, holding the potential for further transformation given the right set of conditions, while the ESI sees a personality as something set and static, already determined, holding all the agency and carrying all the responsibility for the actions of that person. Thus the ESI pays attention to person's concrete actions to evaluate who someone is, while Delta NFs are much more interesting in the personal, familial, and societal conditions that shaped and influenced them. In this conversation, the act of hijacking in itself was the stopping point in discussion for the ESI: "This is what this person has done - and this is it, this is all we need to know about him", while the IEE was more interested in talking about the factors that shaped and influenced him to lead him to that point. The ESI discounted these contextual factors and tried to refocus the conversation on the actuality of his actions (base Ne/creative Se disconnect).

    Smilex has previously talked about ESI's propensity to judge people in very direct manner from their actions in this thread: ESIs & grudges - to sum it up: an ESI nurse yelled at him to take off his hat, and once he did it, and she had seen him do it, she warmed up to him (Fi - personal evaluation derived from Se - direct observations of person's actions). An IEE with leading Ne, which is an "implicit" aspect, would overlook and be dismissive of this kind of direct 'sensory' application of Fi by the ESI, and attempt to draw ESI's focus away from Se application of Fi in favor of Ne, and that will be the crux of their argument.


    Another example of IEE's Ne unintentionally poking at the weak spot of ESI:

    "My poor ISFj brother usually calls our ENTj mom for advice, but her health isn't great, and my dad's isn't either, and he's afraid of getting them stressed out. I'm [IEE] next on the list of advice-givers apparently. So he's going through this really really nasty divorce asking me to help him figure out what is going to happen, and my natural inclination is to tell him everything that could possibly happen and let him sort through which things are most likely. But of course this doesn't work with him. He gets anxious and I have to backtrack and say, "well this isn't all that likely, so don't worry about that." But it's too late at that point because I've brought it up and it's out there. *sigh* He said at one point, "there isn't much more she can do to me at this point" and without thinking I listed several things she could do. It was a mistake. I am making things worse."
    Last edited by silke; 06-15-2014 at 04:45 PM.

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