The Dark Knight

[jessica129]

So who's seen it? Reviews?

[Sirena]

Went to see it yesterday. My friends liked it a lot. I thought it was okay, but found it kinda weird for some reason. Some things just seemed out of place, somehow. Eh, I'm very picky with movies though. This could also have something to do with the fact that we ended up in the wrong room and had to wait for the next showing to start, so we ended up spending a total of 4 hours there. Really long movie...but overall entertaining. Heath Ledger does a good job as Joker and of course, it's always nice to get a nice look at Christian Bale.

[jessica129]

It's almost like Titanic mania...I didn't want to jump on that bandwagon but the way people are talking about it, I have to see it. It's been sold out at every theater here since 12am friday. I finally managed to find a ticket and am going this afternoon. Ideally, I wanted to see it in IMAX but that's sold out for the next week!

[discojoe]

It was really good, but it was sort of like Spider-Man 3, where even though the actual content of the movie was great, it's like there was too much is going on, and when it was over I felt emotionally drained.

They should have cut out all the Hong Kong parts, at least, and also added some CGI to Gotham in order to make it not look exactly like Chicago, where it was filmed, which I thought was stupid and distracting.

[duality is cringe]

This is one epic masterpiece of a comic book film If I've ever seen one. The next time you watch a comic-to-film adaptation with this much creativity, intelligence, larger than life action, dead on characterizations, emotion, and acting that makes it look like these characters walked right off the pages of the comics, it's probably because it's a Christopher Nolan film.

There are so many amazing performances with A list talent that it's hard even for Ledger's incredible, untouchable Joker performance to make you forget about all the other characters moving this story along. It's also very hard to pinpoint a favorite scene in the movie since there are so many absolutely brilliant moments peppered throughout the movie. I could go on, but now seems like a good place to stop.

You do not want to miss THE DARK KNIGHT. Christopher Nolan takes this film to heights no other Batman film would ever dare to go.

Perfect 10 IMO.

[UDP]

Saw it last night. One of the best movies I've seen in theater in a very long time.

People who love comic book batman and the one with jim carrey and arnold might not like it. However, anyone who is interested in movies, or even human nature, can probably find something interesting in the film.

[UDP]

This is one epic masterpiece of a comic book film If I've ever seen one. The next time you watch a comic-to-film adaptation with this much creativity, intelligence, larger than life action, dead on characterizations, emotion, and acting that makes it look like these characters walked right off the pages of the comics, it's probably because it's a Christopher Nolan film.

There are so many amazing performances with A list talent that it's hard even for Ledger's incredible, untouchable Joker performance to make you forget about all the other characters moving this story along. It's also very hard to pinpoint a favorite scene in the movie since there are so many absolutely brilliant moments peppered throughout the movie. I could go on, but now seems like a good place to stop.

You do not want to miss THE DARK KNIGHT. Christopher Nolan takes this film to heights no other Batman film would ever dare to go.

Perfect 10 IMO.

Whoever wrote it was extremely talented imo. Not just talented, but very skillful in understanding humans, and using that skill portrayed a very fine piece of art.

The movie seemed above and beyond what Batman Begins was trying to do.

[discojoe]

The movie's getting enough praise, so here's some more criticism (more like nitpicking):



Bale's Batman voice still sounds like Alec Baldwin with throat cancer. I know he's trying to hide his identity, but it sounds awful.

Maggie Gyllenhaal, while a better actress than Katie Holmes, had terrible makeup that made her look like a saggy-eyed pig.






***Minor Harvey Dent-related SPOILERS***










Two Face was under-utilized, ala Venom in Spider-Man 3, making me think he should have just been revealed at the very end as a setup for the third movie.






***END SPOILERS***




There was some sloppy directing in the action scenes that felt disjointed. You could tell that Nolan was pushing the running length and had to make trade-offs with certain scenes, (like how the party scene abruptly ended) to avoid the ire of the producers. Like I said before, the China scenes should have been cut.

Ledger's Joker performance was as good as the hype would have you believe, but it was so good that Batman felt like more of a supporting character than the main star, which admittedly happens a lot in superhero movies.

The movie didn't "feel" like a Batman movie, so much as a crime drama set in Chicago that happened to feature a real man pretending to be Batman--it's almost too realistic.

Gotham City is a character in the Batman stories, and needs to feel more imposing and massive than the daytime shots of Chicago used in the movie. They should have touched it up with CGI to make it feel a little more fantastic.

Near the end of the movie there were extended shots of Batman running, which looked totally ridiculous. Just like zombies, the problem with Batman is that the longer the camera stays on him--the more we see him--the less believable and more comedic he becomes.


Despite all these nitpicks, it's a wonderful movie, 4 stars, etc., that pretty much everyone should see, regardless of being into comic books or not. Perhaps my complaint about the feel of the movie is actually one of the film's virtues, since the story is allowed to speak for itself instead of relying on comic book nostalgia.

[UDP]

Semispoiler + semijoke:


I couldn't help thinking:

Now, if batman was gamma, and shot the joker when the joker crashed that first party scene (where he came in with the helicopter), then all of these problems down the road would have been eliminated. So.... +1 for eliminating scum.

There were a few situations where I was like "Man, Batman really needs to just carry on his Bat-Belt a Bat-Magnum or something, like Dirty Harry". But perhaps that leaves room open for new movie The Dirty Knight.

[Khola aka Bee]

It was fucking AIIIIII!!!! I saw it AGAIN tonight!!


Loved it!!

[discojoe]

Also, I think Nicholson would have been better in TDK if he had all the same lines. Not to pan Ledger's wonderful performance, but in my opinion, Nicholson is just more intimidating, more menacing.

Remember, I'm not talking about Nicholson's original Joker, but rather Nicholson playing the same part as Ledger. Imagine him delivering those lines about how he got his scars.

That would have been truly frightening--more so than Ledger trying to add menace to every scene by constantly licking his lips, at any rate.

[jessica129]

I've been looking hard and can't find nearly one bad review. Some minor critiques but it looks like it's 5 stars across the board. It'll be tolerable even if you're not a Batman fan, i'm assuming? I never really got into the past ones. Well, I'm off to go see it.

[duality is cringe]

Whoever wrote it was extremely talented imo. Not just talented, but very skillful in understanding humans, and using that skill portrayed a very fine piece of art.

The movie seemed above and beyond what Batman Begins was trying to do.

The screenplay was written by Jonathan Nolan I believe.

Bale's Batman voice still sounds like Alec Baldwin with throat cancer. I know he's trying to hide his identity, but it sounds awful.

Yeah, his voice definitely isn't all that easy on the ears and could have been delivered more smoothly. There are moments when you can't always tell what Bale is saying. But it's clearly a choice Christian Bale has taken for his Batman portrayal and I can live with it. He's still the best Batman IMO.

Also, I think Nicholson would have been better in TDK if he had all the same lines. Not to pan Ledger's wonderful performance, but in my opinion, Nicholson is just more intimidating, more menacing.

Really? Couldn't disagree more personally. I would love to compare and discuss why Heath's Joker mercilessly annihilates Jack's Joker, but I really don't thing there is such a thing as "Heath's Joker." You don't see any trace of Heath Ledger the actor in this movie the same way you can clearly see Jack Nicholson in 1989's BATMAN. If I had walked into THE DARK KNIGHT having no clue who the actor playing the Joker was, I would never have guessed his name based on this performance. This has to be the purist Joker manifestation outside of the comic book medium. Even better than the Batman animated series. The voice and facial expressions are a huge part of what makes this performance so brilliant (the best in comic book movie history) and Heath has nailed it in a way that Jack just didn't.

[discojoe]

Really? Couldn't disagree more personally. I would love to compare and discuss why Heath's Joker mercilessly annihilates Jack's Joker, but I really don't thing there is such a thing as "Heath's Joker." You don't see any trace of Heath Ledger the actor in this movie the same way you can clearly see Jack Nicholson in 1989's BATMAN. If I had walked into THE DARK KNIGHT having no clue who the actor playing the Joker was, I would never have guessed his name based on this performance. This has to be the purist Joker manifestation outside of the comic book medium. Even better than the Batman animated series. The voice and facial expressions are a huge part of what makes this performance so brilliant (the best in comic book movie history) and Heath has nailed it in a way that Jack just didn't.

I think how well you can "see" the actor in a part is irrelevant when discussing acting ability and/or suitability to a particular role. Regardless of how much Nicholson's personality shines through in each of his parts, I would have been far more intimidated by him delivering these lines than by Ledger's Joker. It's just a preference, and I don't expect a warm welcome from the rabid mouth-breathing fans (not saying you're one of them).

[duality is cringe]

I think how well you can "see" the actor in a part is irrelevant when discussing acting ability and/or suitability to a particular role. Regardless of how much Nicholson's personality shines through in each of his parts, I would have been far more intimidated by him delivering these lines than by Ledger's Joker. It's just a preference, and I don't expect a warm welcome from the rabid mouth-breathing fans (not saying you're one of them).

lol. Thanks. I don't have a problem with your preference for Nicholson in the role, but to clarify, I don't think changing every facial tick, accent, walk, etc, for a movie role is all there is to great acting either, but the way Heath totally immersed himself in such a bizzare, captivating personality just had me completely taken aback.

[Gilly]

Eh, the Joker isn't about being intimidating though, Peter. The Joker is about being disturbing, revolting, and just completely unpredictable, and I personally think Ledger conveys that very well. I can see Nicholson doing a great job with it, too, given the same role and lines and general character to be performed, but I think Ledger was absolutely astounding; going from Brokeback Mountain to this really showcased his incredible diversity, which I previously would not have even guessed at. Nicholson was a great Joker, but this was just completely out the other side of the hat.

[discojoe]

If a villain isn't intimidating, he's just a nuisance. Ledger's Joker is relentless and creepy, but not very intimidating. He seemed more like a pest who wouldn't die than a truly frightening opponent.

[Gilly]

Bale's Batman voice still sounds like Alec Baldwin with throat cancer. I know he's trying to hide his identity, but it sounds awful.

Maggie Gyllenhaal, while a better actress than Katie Holmes, had terrible makeup that made her look like a saggy-eyed pig.

rofl, I thought both of these things at numerous points during the movie.

Two Face was under-utilized, ala Venom in Spider-Man 3, making me think he should have just been revealed at the very end as a setup for the third movie.

I hadn't thought of that, but I agree that it would be interesting to see how the movie would pan out as such. It also would've been a great way to draw attention away from the Joker character and the thoughts that I know I had, at least, about how they would set up the third movie, what with Ledger's death.

Ledger's Joker performance was as good as the hype would have you believe, but it was so good that Batman felt like more of a supporting character than the main star, which admittedly happens a lot in superhero movies.

Definitely agree on this one; I think this will be a series unlike any other in that the second movie will be remembered as the best, because there's just no way the third can be as amazing without Ledger, and the emphasis on him (and Eckart) in this movie resulting in the detraction from the Batman character is really going to be hard to overcome without Ledger's presence. It leaves a massive hole to be filled that I don't think Bale and Eckart, although talented actors, are going to be able to fill in such a way that the third lives up to the second.

The movie didn't "feel" like a Batman movie, so much as a crime drama set in Chicago that happened to feature a real man pretending to be Batman--it's almost too realistic.

Hadn't thought of that. The lack of Wayne Manor and the emphasis on the villains really does take away from the idea of it being a "Batman" movie, although the emphasis on the uniquely "Batman" villains helps the cause, I think.

Gotham City is a character in the Batman stories, and needs to feel more imposing and massive than the daytime shots of Chicago used in the movie. They should have touched it up with CGI to make it feel a little more fantastic.

Agreed. They could have taken a few cues (but not too many) from Frank Miller to ad that larger-than-life comic touch

Despite all these nitpicks, it's a wonderful movie, 4 stars, etc., that pretty much everyone should see, regardless of being into comic books or not. Perhaps my complaint about the feel of the movie is actually one of the film's virtues, since the story is allowed to speak for itself instead of relying on comic book nostalgia.

Well said.

[Gilly]

If a villain isn't intimidating, he's just a nuisance. Ledger's Joker is relentless and creepy, but not very intimidating. He seemed more like a pest who wouldn't die than a truly frightening opponent.

I dunno, I think it makes him seem more like someone who would wait in your closet for you to come home while you were away on vacation and stab you in the back as you lay down for your first night's rest at home, as opposed to some thug who will just come walking up to you in an ally and beating you to death with a baseball bat. I liked it. It was very artistically and psychologically effective, IMO.

[discojoe]

I've always wondered what it would be like to rape a female viking...

The enneagram is like masturbating and trying to guess where your cum's gonna land.

LOL

[discojoe]

I dunno, I think it makes him seem more like someone who would wait in your closet for you to come home while you were away on vacation and stab you in the back as you lay down for your first night's rest at home, as opposed to some thug who will just come walking up to you in an ally and beating you to death with a baseball bat. I liked it. It was very artistically and psychologically effective, IMO.

It was effective and entertaining, but it just seemed like he was too nuts, like he wasn't even aware of it. Maybe a good way to say it is that Ledger's Joker is crazy in his Id, and I think it's scarier when someone's crazy in their Ego. Consciously crazy instead of subconsciously crazy, if such a thing is even possible.

[Gilly]

LOL

omg you should have heard him say it out loud...

[Gilly]

It was effective and entertaining, but it just seemed like he was too nuts, like he wasn't even aware of it. Maybe a good way to say it is that Ledger's Joker is crazy in his Id, and I think it's scarier when someone's crazy in their Ego. Consciously crazy instead of subconsciously crazy, if such a thing is even possible.

Yeah, I can see what you're saying. Ledger's Joker is just a straight up lunatic; he's not power-hungry or megalomaniacal, he's just deluded and insane and freaky. To me that is scarier.

If you are using the terms Id and Ego as they relate to Freud, then I think Ledger's Joker's dysfunction seems more due to an under-developed Super-Ego, whereas a typical criminal mindset is more driven by an over-focus on the Id.

I guess I can see what you are saying about the Id-crazy being like people who have childhood dysfunction and are just inherently insane in their foundations, and people with Ego (or Super-Ego) dysfunction just having issues later in development that don't so much affect the foundations of their psyche but still have a negative influence on their outlook on life.

I think what is "scary" to someone probably has a lot to do with what they are more inclined to be like, what they see in themselves and therefore project onto the character; the degree to which they can see it in themselves makes it more or less "real" to them. Just based on my perceptions I think that would make sense with regards to our preferences on these matters.

[jessica129]

THIS MOVIE SUCKS, GO SEE WANTED INSTEAD.

No, honestly...am I living in some sort of alternate universe? Was I one of the ones who walked into the 'We're-gonna-show-you-the-god-awful-version-that-makes-you-want-to-walk-out-after-the-first-30-minutes-HA-HA-HA? I want those three hours of my life back. Don't see this.

[Joy]

It had also crossed my mind that Jack Nicholson could have played that role better before Peter had mentioned that to me. It wouldn't be the same character he played last time he played the Joker though, of course.

[jessica129]

Jack Nicholson will always be my favorite.

And seriously, what the hell. Sure, Heath's performace was excellent but the way people were raving about it, you'd think he was the main focus of the film. He had maybe what, 30 minutes (if that) of actual screen time out of an insanely long and drawn out film. It wasn't a bad movie but this hype needs to be a little more realistic.

[Sirena]

And seriously, what the hell. Sure, Heath's performace was excellent but the way people were raving about it, you'd think he was the main focus of the film. He had maybe what, 30 minutes (if that) of actual screen time out of an insanely long and drawn out film. It wasn't a bad movie but this hype needs to be a little more realistic.

I tend to agree with you here. It was overall a good movie, but I didn't love it. Parts of it felt somewhat disconnected to me. Maybe my taste isn't sophisticated enough or something. Some parts felt really cheesy to me. It didn't really touch me on an emotional level, the way a film about heroism should (to me). I was probably expecting too much.

[BurntOrange]

Well, Wanted definitely was surprisingly fantastic, and I haven't actually seen this movie yet, but I think you're in the minority here jessica haha. It's at 94% on Rottentomatoes and 91% on the user review which puts it as one of the most popular films ever made, without even having to add "comic book" or "recent" to that sentence.

[jessica129]

I'm really just at a loss for words. The only entertaining parts were when Heath was on screen...so what does that leave us with? 130 minutes of filler time and nothingness and Batman talking in a super cheesy voice. Gah, it suckeddd. Wanted was far better than this and much more entertaining. I'm thinking the popularity is obviously only due to the fact that Heath is dead. But maybe i'll blame the fact I was in the very front row and couldn't see the screen properly....or not. Good thing I got the mantinee.

[duality is cringe]

WFT?!?!

Well, I wasn't expecting this reaction...lol. Can't believe you like WANTED over TDK. You should read the WANTED graphic novel, if you're interested. It's SO much better than the movie.

[jessica129]

My friend was also at a loss for words, she thought it sucked too.

You know, I'm contemplating going again tommorow (and getting a good seat this time) just so i can figure out what is so great about this movie. Really. I can't get over the cheesiness (?) and the whole deal with batmans voice and the first hour of the film and how excruciatingly boring it was. Had they started blowing things up continuously from the get go and cut all the talking out, I may have given it 2 stars. But hey, i thought it was cool they shot in a few locations I pass on a weekly basis...yeah, that was the only mildly interesting thing. The Batman with the fat little penguin guy was far better than this.

[Khamelion]

It was really good, but it was sort of like Spider-Man 3, where even though the actual content of the movie was great, it's like there was too much is going on, and when it was over I felt emotionally drained.

They should have cut out all the Hong Kong parts, at least, and also added some CGI to Gotham in order to make it not look exactly like Chicago, where it was filmed, which I thought was stupid and distracting.

The person I saw it with actually compared it to Spider-Man 2, I'm too tired to remember why...something to do with the villans...I don't feel as though it had too much going on, or emotionally drained. I kind of liked how it didn't really effect me emotionally actually. Maybe you felt that way because it was so long.


I noticed license plates said Illinois...bugged me for some reason.

[Khamelion]

heath did a far better job than jack nicholson. IMO. i was avoiding joining the "hype" about heath and his performance but...dare i say it....he's been my favorite batman villan so far. achieves the creepy level while also being hilarious. i'm not going to say i admire him, because im not sure exactly what i'd be admiring....but i feel inclined to say i admire him. lol.

i dont really like any other batman movies, i mean...i like them BECAUSE it's fucking batman, but compared to the latest two movies...meh. micheal keaton as BATMAN?! who the hell thought that up?!? i dont fucking get that at all and it ruins the movies for me. i'll always have a soft spot for batman and robin though....its just plain hilarious. arnold as mr. freeze, NICE LOL....and despite how good george clooney's portrayal of batman is or isn't....he definite LOOKS more like batman than fucking keaton. bullshit.

im glad katie holmes was absent.



and im sorry i just have to voice this, i dont care for any argument or discussion...but...

jessica....you have terrible taste. not that i didn't already know this but you proved it further in this thread. obviously seeing as our tastes seem to differ so much, you can say the same for me. fair enough. i just had to get that out.

Remember, I'm not talking about Nicholson's original Joker, but rather Nicholson playing the same part as Ledger. Imagine him delivering those lines about how he got his scars.

okay i'll give you that...however...

Eh, the Joker isn't about being intimidating though, Peter. The Joker is about being disturbing, revolting, and just completely unpredictable, and I personally think Ledger conveys that very well.

this is pretty much what i have to say on the matter.

If a villain isn't intimidating, he's just a nuisance. Ledger's Joker is relentless and creepy, but not very intimidating. He seemed more like a pest who wouldn't die than a truly frightening opponent.

the intimidation is achieved by him being the way he is, "disturbing, revolting, unpredictable". the fact that he gets away with what he does is intimidating. the fact that he has that sort of power and figures out and pulls off elaborate plans is intimidating. why should this little freakish man with make up be able to terrify an entire city?!?! BECAUSE HE'S NUTS AND CAPABLE!!! id say capability and competence is intimidating.

[jessica129]

You're a very opinionated person. I don't like it. Stop.

[Khamelion]

You're a very opinionated person. I don't like it. Stop.

lol i know, sorry i probably won't


that actually felt like a compliment....

[BurntOrange]

So I went to a midnight show tonight, and, well, I'm surprised. Usually I have pretty mainstream taste. I mean, I liked the movie, but probably not more than the first one and definitely not more than Wanted. That movie was just so damn good even though it should've been so bad though haha. Anyway, at times it felt like Law and Order and I pretty much hate every one of the 29 of those police procedural dramas that are running on TV right now (which I guess isn't very mainstream of me haha). I mean, its fucking batman, not that I've ever been a big batman fan, but it's supposed to be about him kicking ass, not some sort of Law and Order: Gotham City that just randomly has batman thrown in.

None of the characters were written in a way to invoke any empathy from me besides the Joker, either. I wanted his plan at the end to work so badly. It should've too, that was just absurd.

[BurntOrange]

Oh and 3 things.

First, WTF, don't go give this movie more of your money when you hated it haha.

Second, I agree that the whole Hong Kong thing should've been cut. It didn't mean shit to the story, the guy he caught barely was even seen in the rest of the movie. That's the first time I can ever remember agreeing with someone that a movie should've been edited shorter, too. Usually I like them long.

Third, I might have walked out of the movie if Nicholson was the Joker. I thought there'd be some extra kindness about Ledger's performance because he died, especially since I always thought he sucked as an actor, but I certainly don't entertain any sort of that kind of unobjective bias and I'd vote for him as best supporting actor without hesitation.

[tcaudilllg]

Granted Heath Ledger apparently projected his portrayal of the Joker as part of his own dying struggle.... Heath Ledger was definitely a consensus leader, that I can tell just from his photographs. I think the chief reason for the hype is the fact that he is a consensus leader whom people are generally drawn to, and too I think people went into this movie thinking that they had to honor Ledger's personal tragedy. I mean really, how "good" can one person be in a role beyond simply being convincing?

[hellothere]

I thought it was awesome... and not just because of Heath Ledger's performance. And I'm not even a huge batman fan, nor do I usually get excited about movies.

[Wittmont]

Am I the only one who really isn't into this whole super hero thing? I have never seen an interesting superhero (Superman, Batman, Spiderman, X-men etc etc) movie. Some of them have may have reached the lofty level of mildly un-boring but that's about it heh.

I did like V for Vendetta tho