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Thread: How do YOU "Function"?

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    Default How do YOU "Function"?

    An ENFP Mind "Functioning": (Note format)

    My preferred mode is looking out into the world of interactions and interconnections. I don’t actually put a name to the interaction, nor actively judge it. The interactions/connections just “are.

    Familiar Patterns of interactions/connections unconsciously strengthen previous pattern associations. These are the patterns which make up my internal framework, belief systems, and sense of self.

    Conflicting Patterns are brought to my attention by a jarring feeling, like someone suddenly put on the brakes of a moving car, or a crack/split feeling within my body.

    Actions from here depend on the strength of the conflict feeling.

    Slight Conflict Feelings will usually remain unnoticed until it occurs enough times to gain notice. I call this “limbo”.

    The stronger the conflict feeling, the stronger the previous patterns have been internalized. (The more I have identified with the pattern.)

    A choice must now be made:

    Choice 1: Stick with the internalized pattern. Aka “gut feeling” or “I’m going with how I feel on this one.” May also lead to expressions like ‘this is how it is/should be’.

    Choice 2: Attempt to understand/identify the conflict by breaking one or both patterns down into components or “blocks”, then feeling/seeing where and how the components match/mismatch. The components are actually felt.
    * ie. Block A may be felt above my right shoulder forward a bit.
    * Block C is behind the lower part of my left hip. Etc.
    * Matches are a soothing feeling. Mismatches are another jar.

    Mismatched Components are dealt with depending on ability and importance:
    1. may revert to “gut feeling”
    2. break mismatched blocks into further components
    3. or check to see what other patterns may have matching components (system adjusts to new matches)

    Note:
    It is not easy going into depth regarding complex patterns.
    It is much easier to follow one’s “gut instincts”.
    Delving into understanding/identifying the pattern requires developing some of the following:
    1. Si - to uncover where the information is stored and obtain any sensory memories needed to identify components/blocks.
    2. Te - for arranging or rearranging the blocks until feels right.
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    Conversations with My Self....

    **Self, what exactly was the purpose of this post?

    It was to ask people to attempt to describe the process they normally go through in information processing and problem solving.

    **And how are people supposed to know that that is what you were asking for when you didn't ASK it?

    But I did ask it. It's in the title.

    **And you assumed that they would somehow "get it"?

    Ummmm, yes?

    **Don't you think that being a little more straightforward might produce better results?

    A forward and direct ENFP?
    Um, I could try......
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    Well, after a dinner and a movie, we go back to the room here, it all really depends on .........


    ahh....... screw it.


    *failed experiement*
    I'm pulling the funding before this gets out of control
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    damn, funding pulled just as it starts to get a little interesting

    guess i'll have to rely on volunteers
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    Don't worry anndelise, I'm quite a concrete thinker and I still "got it" It's a very interesting topic, too...I will have to give it some thought first for awhile though.

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    I like your theory. Finally something that explains our thought processes in a way that sounds rational and sensible. Every time an ENFP says he "trusts his intuition" etc, I get the impression it makes the xNTx types on this forum suspect we're some kind of missing link to Homo Erectus. And it does sound a bit knuckle-dragging... "So how do you make your decisions?" - "I trust my hunches." Duh.

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    My preferred mode is looking out into the world of interactions and interconnections. I don’t actually put a name to the interaction, nor actively judge it. The interactions/connections just “are".
    Exactly. I think the judging/naming happens later, once we've amassed enough data to form a pattern... i.e. an opinion, or a preference. Then when something jars with this pattern, you do judge things, in the way you described, by either following our internalized patterns or by breaking down the jar into its components. If that is true, then it looks like a pretty pragmatic, fluid and holistic way of forming opinions.

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Familiar Patterns of interactions/connections unconsciously strengthen previous pattern associations.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    Conflicting Patterns are brought to my attention by a jarring feeling, like someone suddenly put on the brakes of a moving car, or a crack/split feeling within my body.
    With me it's more like a nagging voice at the back of my mind. "Something's not quite right." At other times I only notice after a while that something has been wrong and that I've tried to ignore it; I mainly notice it because it makes me feel less real. Somehow the world seems vague and boring. Limbo is a good word for it. Then once I've confronted the thing and identified it, I feel better already, even though the conflict itself might be unsolvable.

    I didn't understand what this means:

    The stronger the conflict feeling, the stronger the previous patterns have been internalized. (The more I have identified with the pattern.)
    Could you rephrase it in other words, or give an example?

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    I didn't understand what this means:

    The stronger the conflict feeling, the stronger the previous patterns have been internalized. (The more I have identified with the pattern.)
    Could you rephrase it in other words, or give an example?
    If we run into a pattern enough times, it becomes familiar. The more familiar the pattern, the more it becomes part of our identity. The more it is part of our identity, the stronger the conflict feeling when we run into a pattern that conflicts with it.

    For example, compassion towards others. Throughout our lives we have been surrounded by varying patterns of compassion or non-compassion towards others. Patterns can have varying content depending on the individual's experiences. The patterns that occurred the most become part of our world view, part of our identity. When we experience patterns of anti-compassion towards ourself or towards others, it jars with our world view or sense of identity. Our reactions then, are what leads to descriptions like:
    1) maintaining a refined view of moral right, wrong, good, bad, and
    2) various attempts to explain Fi to other people using concrete examples.

    ....

    Suddenly stops. Tries to figure out what her point was. Rereads the question and her answer. Figures she could have done better, but unsure how. Hopes it still makes sense.
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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Time also does not seem to run in a straight line for me, at least not for past events, but rather it's a collection of interconnected events, but I have a hard time telling what order they occurred. I have to use related information sometimes to remember the order, and even then it can be difficult. The connections, how they are related, the information I gain from the shared points of view of the collection of events, is what makes an impression on me. The order is unimportant.

    ...

    When I learn a new piece of information I see how it relates to what I already know and so form a connection to other information. I have a hard time forcing myself to memorize unrelated facts. I can do it if I have to, but seeing the piece in a whole and learning the connections between the pieces is much easier than just memorizing what the one piece does on its own.

    I hope that's kinda what you were looking for.
    Diana, those were great, thank you.

    How do you guide your behavior?
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    .

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    @ anndelise: thanks for the explanation. As soon as I read it I couldn't understand why I didn't get it the first time round.

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    Diana, what type are you? You probably said it somewhere, but I didn't catch it.

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    Hmm...sounds like me a lot I guess, especially that feeling you get when something isn't right. Now, I do like to figure out patterns through my NE because it is fun for me, though most of the time I end up going crazy when my Se interferes.

    Hey, maybe all ENFPs should meet in the secret island of Notuchino in the co-ordingates of 78 to 42 parallel. We can discuss worldy discussions about nothingness over a cup of tea and lady finger biscuits. I don't think I've met an ENFP, but I would like to have one has a friend, not as a girlfriend. Similar types never get along, though completely opposite ones don't either, it's all about balance.

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    Damn, I forgot to log in again...........
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    6w7-4w5-9w1

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    damn, funding pulled just as it starts to get a little interesting

    guess i'll have to rely on volunteers

    Yeah, you ENFPs look for "volunteers" way too much.

    That's the problem
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    I don't understand what you mean. Could you explain that? ... or do you mean we ought to go around and club everyone into abject submission? Hm. Could be worth a try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    I don't understand what you mean. Could you explain that? ... or do you mean we ought to go around and club everyone into abject submission? Hm. Could be worth a try.
    ...wonders over to bondage.com with club and cuffs in hand, seeking ..uh.. volunteers
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    ARGH...he did it.....we allowed him to do it... I allowed him to do it...

    UDP side-tracked me from my purpose!!!!!

    Grrrrr.



    Diana: I'll get back to you on what you wrote...doing up the topic fried my brain and I need some play time before I attempt to delve back into it.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    ARGH...he did it.....we allowed him to do it... I allowed him to do it...

    UDP side-tracked me from my purpose!!!!!

    Grrrrr.


    You are beginning to understand......



    Well, that's all for now. Carry on as you were in this thread.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    So, how do you function?

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    So, how do you function?

    "That's none of your business"
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Oh, you're scared. Hah. This aggression strategy works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Oh, you're scared. Hah. This aggression strategy works.
    Aggression?




    plaing the "twist his pride" card won't work this time.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    This thread scares me.

    I <3 Ne (if that's what you're asking)
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    I was joking.

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    not you....
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    (I'll prod this thread a little, see if it's still alive.)

    ENTJs: how do you function?

    Whatever you do, it's bound to be breathtakingly different from what I do. ENTJs always spot when I'm being vague. They usually agree with the general drift of what I'm saying, but they pinpoint exactly where I lack in specifics or where the wording was incorrect. I'd like to know why this is so.

    I can explain my own side of things. This vagueness is probably a side-effect of my perceiving the world in patterns and gestalts. So instead of being precise and specific, we often make do with merely outlining the general pattern. Let's compare perceiving the world to a connect-the-dots game: the dots are specifics and details. Usually people play the game the "right" way round: first you see the dots, then you connect them to a pattern. We see the pattern first, and then we see the dots it's made up of. First the whole image, then the specifics and details (if at all ). We often miss a dot or two, but we usually get the pattern right, at least the overall direction.

    This makes it difficult to explain our insight to others. Sometimes you've got dots enough to make up the first part of a pattern, and you just know how the pattern will go on. If you tell this to someone, though, you haven't got any data to support it (i.e., no dots). All you can say is, "I've got a hunch", or "in my experience it's like that", or "I just know, alright?". When people ask you for specifics, you're stumped.
    All you can do is, you painstakingly try to find out what other patterns you've stored in your internal pattern repository; which parts of them make you think this pattern is going to be like them; and once you've isolated that, you try and remember what dots those patterns were made up of, and what dots this pattern is made up of. THEN you've got the specifics and details others demand of you.

    This, needless to say, is a vague and over-generalized description of a pattern.

    So, how do you function?

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    FDG replied to this in another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    I think that probably you will not find many ENTj willing to write their way of perceiving the world - I personally feel that it's a waste of time, and that people should not really care much about how I get information, but more about how I use it. The ENTj description at socion.info provides a good outline of the way the ENTj shapes the way he sees things.



    As a second point, i just wanted to clarify that the way you're making intuition sound is a perispective from an Ne-firster.

    Quote:
    This makes it difficult to explain our insight to others. Sometimes you've got dots enough to make up the first part of a pattern, and you just know how the pattern will go on. If you tell this to someone, though, you haven't got any data to support it (i.e., no dots). All you can say is, "I've got a hunch", or "in my experience it's like that", or "I just know, alright?". When people ask you for specifics, you're stumped.
    All you can do is, you painstakingly try to find out what other patterns you've stored in your internal pattern repository; which parts of them make you think this pattern is going to be like them; and once you've isolated that, you try and remember what dots those patterns were made up of, and what dots this pattern is made up of. THEN you've got the specifics and details others demand of you.


    Personally, I usually refrain myself from telling to people what I intuit. I simply do not trust my intuition enough. I use it a lot for forming conclusion about myself, and for directing MY behaviour, or for understanding thing - and it works wonders; but sitll, I am not confident in my intuition as I am confindent in my logic.

    When I give advice to people, they are usually grounded into Te; then, I might give some advice on how things will develop, but if I see that the other party does not trust this advice, I back up almost immediatly.

    That also one of the motivations of why, sometimes, the ENTj does not like people that ask too many "whys". Te is about how to do things, and Ni is about intuiting without any "pattern", just a sudden realization. I have strangely found true in many ENTj that we can know how do to things and where to direct situations without knowing why things must be done that way. In this regard yes, your description does hold true for us, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    (I'll prod this thread a little, see if it's still alive.)

    ENTJs: how do you function?

    Whatever you do, it's bound to be breathtakingly different from what I do. ENTJs always spot when I'm being vague. They usually agree with the general drift of what I'm saying, but they pinpoint exactly where I lack in specifics or where the wording was incorrect. I'd like to know why this is so.
    This is an unfortunate aspect of the ENFp-ENTj relationship. The seventh function of the ENTj is Ti, and the seventh function is an agrressive one. The ENTj smells inconsistencies and vagueness. He does not necessarily have them to be clarified, but he does need to point out the errors. This pushes ENFp's PoLR, of course.

    This, needless to say, is a vague and over-generalized description of a pattern.
    So, how do you function?
    You have to keep in mind that the ENTj does not really want you to be precise, he only wants you to acknowledge the lack of precision.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    You have to keep in mind that the ENTj does not really want you to be precise, he only wants you to acknowledge the lack of precision.
    Exactly.

    We are focused on doing things and on the optimal timing for doing them, as well as the maximum efficiency.

    We are definitely open to hunches, since they may provide a better way of doing something. However, we need to know how precise the hunches are, because if you follow a half-baked hunch you may waste far more time getting it sorted out - or failing - than if you had tried something you already knew. We prefer then to allocate extra time to sorting out the hunch, if it's worth investigating.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    FDG, Expat: thank you for the input. I'm beginning to understand my ENTJ friend now.

    BTW, seeing your answers one next to the other was interesting. Your style is very similar. FDG writes with a slight Italian accent, otherwise one could think you're one and the same person. I suppose you're sure you're not clones?

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    Omg no I have to get rid of the italian accent.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    (I'll prod this thread a little, see if it's still alive.)
    I haven't forgotten this thread. I have been refining the original idea.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Omg no I have to get rid of the italian accent.
    Why? The stereotypes are good. Very effective socially, I should think. The only time anyone here mimicks our kind of accent (German) is when they're pretending to be mad evil cold-hearted overlords trying to kill everybody and take over the world. So you see: it could be worse.

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    6w5 sx
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    sloan - rcuei

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    Quote Originally Posted by schrödinger's cat
    Why? The stereotypes are good. Very effective socially, I should think. The only time anyone here mimicks our kind of accent (German) is when they're pretending to be mad evil cold-hearted overlords trying to kill everybody and take over the world. So you see: it could be worse.

    we did a mini-project last semester in my program (linguistics) on american native english speakers' perceptions of different non-native english speakers' accents and (surprise!) italian non-native english speakers scored as having the most pleasant accent.
    That's because they all hope the Italians will invite them for dinner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Omg no I have to get rid of the italian accent.
    Don't get rid of the accent! It's so cute....

    I always drool when posts (in the chat as well), I love the Bulgarian accent that I imagine him to have

    But Cat seems to be big on seeing accents in our posts

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    But they're there. *points* See! Look! They're really really there! I can see them! I see them all the time! *stares wildly at everyone* Tell me you can see them to! Please! Please! please... *breaks down sobbing*

    This crappy translation I've got to finish triggers my silly switch.

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