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Thread: So what am I?

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    Default So what am I?

    I am starting to doubt I am ENTP now at first I thought I was ENTP TI but now I am not so sure I Could very well be INTJ.

    I have been here long enough now for you guys to have figured me out please put me out of my misery.

    Thanks

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    Tell me more about the ENTP TI how are the Different INTJ TI and NE Subtypes.

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by confused84 View Post
    Tell me more about the ENTP TI how are the Different INTJ TI and NE Subtypes.
    ENTps and INTjs have opposite temperaments.

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    Thank you Phaedrus I love it when people state the obvious.
    Keep up the good work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by confused84 View Post
    Thank you Phaedrus I love it when people state the obvious.
    Keep up the good work.
    So you are an idiot then? That would explain why you don't understand that you can never confuse an ENTp with an INTj. The temperaments are so extremely different that only an idiot could hesitate between ENTp and INTj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    So you are an idiot then? That would explain why you don't understand that you can never confuse an ENTp with an INTj. The temperaments are so extremely different that only an idiot could hesitate between ENTp and INTj.
    I mustn't be too stupid after all people are judged by the company they keep and you Phaedrus you are keeping me company.

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    I'm not quite sure about your type.
    but from your photo, i actually thought ENFp.
    INTp
    sx/sp

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    Quote Originally Posted by confused84 View Post
    I mustn't be too stupid after all people are judged by the company they keep and you Phaedrus you are keeping me company.
    Well, if you are not stupid, then you are ignorant. You don't understand the temperaments, and you don't understand the types, and yet you talk about sub-types. Wake up from your delusions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Well, if you are not stupid, then you are ignorant. You don't understand the temperaments, and you don't understand the types, and yet you talk about sub-types. Wake up from your delusions.
    Yeah I must be ignorant. I read things and I think to myself hey that sounds like me yeah ok, hang on that doesn't sound right
    Back to the drawing board.

    I always thought subtypes were some kind of explanation of why descriptions are not always %100.

    It's kind of hard to wake when everyone has a different understanding about Socionics. who's right who's wrong

    It's so easy to believe bull crap if it is said in a convincing way.

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    I find sub-type is more like a variation in motivation. While an ENTp with a Ti subtype can often resemble an INTj in manner of thinking and manner of approaching an issue, it is more realistic to say that they are somewhere between ENTp and ESTp. ENTp will still have that chaotic and somewhat superfluous EP temperament, as Phaedrus stated, but they seem more focussed on the classification/understanding process associated with Ti and INTj's than on that Ne sense of possibilities. We still use Ne as our perceiving function, but our manner of thinking is less focussed on that sense of experience and more on the internal clockwork of understanding.

    Though Phaedrus wasn't very forthcoming with a good explanation, what he said is the core of the issue, IMO. Ti-ENTp is still EP while INTj is IJ. That should be a very significant deciding factor.
    ILE
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    Oh OK I thought ENTP TI was closer to the IJ Temperament .

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    Cool

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    Phaedrus, I don't think it's as clear cut for some people as you present it. Some people don't have that kind of categorical thinking that you seem to love and it makes it harder for them to categorize themselves as a list of rigid qualities. It may seem strange to you but let's say I'm INFj-Ne and I'm unsure about my type. When I read the INFj descriptions something doesn't fit, naturally I start to wonder, I don't seem to be a J type but then again INFjs have Se PoLR so maybe that explains the non IJ behavior?
    What I'm trying to say is that some people aren't all that clear cut, there are many complexities to things and you can't just categorize everything neatly and perfectly into a box, there are shades of gray.

    Confused84, why do you question ENTp? Maybe it would help if you think of what is more likely to be your PoLR.

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confused84 View Post
    Oh OK I thought ENTP TI was closer to the IJ Temperament .

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    Cool
    Well there can definitely be some similarities there. I mean when I get deep into my Ti cups you might say I resemble an INTj in temperament, but that's not my usual persona, you know? It's just that while I'm deep in thought I give off a more serious and introverted sense. But when someone draws me out of that and brings me back to the moment, then I'm back to that obviously EP style. In general, Ti-ENTp's are more grounded than Ne-subs, but they're still EP.
    ILE
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesy View Post
    Phaedrus, I don't think it's as clear cut for some people as you present it. Some people don't have that kind of categorical thinking that you seem to love and it makes it harder for them to categorize themselves as a list of rigid qualities.
    Yes, it is harder for some people because they don't understand the temperaments. But there is an easy solution to that problem: they have to study the socionic material and observe people in real life. It is not my fault that people refuse to study all important aspects of the types before trying to type themselves and others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesy
    It may seem strange to you but let's say I'm INFj-Ne and I'm unsure about my type. When I read the INFj descriptions something doesn't fit, naturally I start to wonder, I don't seem to be a J type but then again INFjs have Se PoLR so maybe that explains the non IJ behavior?
    No. You can never explain your temperament that way. If you dont' fit the IJ temperament, then you are not an INFj -- it is as simple as that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesy
    What I'm trying to say is that some people aren't all that clear cut, there are many complexities to things and you can't just categorize everything neatly and perfectly into a box, there are shades of gray.
    There are shades of typing competence, but the types themselves are always clear cut. Once you have found your correct type, everything falls into place and you see the light.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesy
    Confused84, why do you question ENTp? Maybe it would help if you think of what is more likely to be your PoLR.
    No. Don't do that. That's the wrong approach. Find your true temperament first.

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    How exactly, (BE FUCKING SPECIFIC) do IPs differ from IJs?

    Yes, it is harder for some people because they don't understand the temperaments. But there is an easy solution to that problem: they have to study the socionic material and observe people in real life.
    If you are the one that claims to be knowledgeable in this hocus pocus-ery, doesn't the burden of proof fall upon you? A teacher never says to their students "Oh you have to do ALL your own work", if he does then it's clear that said teacher really doesn't have anything to offer.

    Before people can even begin to study the temperaments in real-life you have to explain them as best as possible otherwise you will be just digging more and more holes of confusion. It's like you are asking somebody to take a driver's test without studying what all the rules/laws/road signs mean. Yeah they could pass but it wouldn't be likely as they'll probably do something wrong simply because they don't know any better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    How exactly, (BE FUCKING SPECIFIC) do IPs differ from IJs?

    If you are the one that claims to be knowledgeable in this hocus pocus-ery, doesn't the burden of proof fall upon you?
    No, the burden of study falls upon you. YOU should study the material that is already in place. You don't even have to go elsewhere to find it, because it has been discussed many times on this forum, and you can find temperament descriptions in the Articles section.

    It is not my job to provide you or someone else with every little detail you need to know in order for you to be able to understand something as simple as the four temperaments. You can use the search function to find previous threads on this and other problems, and you can search the Internet to find much more interesting material -- like comparing what is said about temperaments in MBTT, which is a theory that has incorporated David Keirsey's ideas on the subject.

    If you don't feel like doing all the hard work yourself, you could try to ask me or someone else about it and we might be willing to help you and explain one or two things or give you one or two links, but in that case you should be more humble and not be so sure that that you understand something you obviously don't understand. If you want to have your own opinion, that's fine, but don't form an opinion on something if you haven't studied it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves
    A teacher never says to their students "Oh you have to do ALL your own work", if he does then it's clear that said teacher really doesn't have anything to offer.
    I am not your teacher. And like so many "students" on this forum you have the irritating attitude of expecting others provide you with everything so that you don't have to do any research yourself. It is not too much to ask for links, but you should at least do some of the reading and thinking yourself. Intellectually lazy -- that's what you and too many others are nowadays.

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    So, Phaedrus, do you know of any particular people or videos that especially illustrate what a temperament might look like? Like EP or IJ, etc? Especially if you could somehow point me to a variety of IP types (SEI, SLI, IEI, ILI) sort of thing, though I doubt you've got all that laying around. What seems most clear to you about 'seeing' a temperament in someone? Also, I'll be reading up on what the wiki says about temperaments in a second, but if you have any good links to toss out, that'd be spectacular.
    Moonlight will fall
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    Take a midol.

    I already study it a lot. However, if you claim to be so wise in it you need to talk about it the most. If not STFU, I probably read it more than you and then I could be an expert.

    L2clarify.

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    I have just spend hours combing through as much information as I could.

    I am LII more that 95 percent of the information rang true.

    Subtype Pending.

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    No, the burden of study falls upon you. YOU should study the material that is already in place. You don't even have to go elsewhere to find it, because it has been discussed many times on this forum, and you can find temperament descriptions in the Articles section.

    It is not my job to provide you or someone else with every little detail you need to know in order for you to be able to understand something as simple as the four temperaments. You can use the search function to find previous threads on this and other problems, and you can search the Internet to find much more interesting material -- like comparing what is said about temperaments in MBTT, which is a theory that has incorporated David Keirsey's ideas on the subject.

    If you don't feel like doing all the hard work yourself, you could try to ask me or someone else about it and we might be willing to help you and explain one or two things or give you one or two links, but in that case you should be more humble and not be so sure that that you understand something you obviously don't understand. If you want to have your own opinion, that's fine, but don't form an opinion on something if you haven't studied it.


    I am not your teacher. And like so many "students" on this forum you have the irritating attitude of expecting others provide you with everything so that you don't have to do any research yourself. It is not too much to ask for links, but you should at least do some of the reading and thinking yourself. Intellectually lazy -- that's what you and too many others are nowadays.
    For the record, I completely agree with you here, Phaedrus. Though you do have a tendency to answer kindly put questions in a manner that is unnecessarily blunt and unforthcoming in useful details, I would say that you're under no obligation to supply information to someone who asks you so rudely. I wouldn't want to bother.

    Quote Originally Posted by confused84
    I have just spend hours combing through as much information as I could.

    I am LII more that 95 percent of the information rang true.

    Subtype Pending.
    Well I'm glad that you've found something that seems to ring more truly for you. While I'm not always a fan of the wikisocion, I find that their sub-type description appear to ring fairly true. From there I'm sure you're competent enough to find the logical foundation for whatever sub-type you identify with most.
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    I am quite content doing nothing I don't need people around in fact I am indifferent to that I will only spend time with close friends and family.

    I listen to music pretty much all day to change my mood and when I am not listening to music I am playing music one my Guitars.

    I had my cousin over last week ISFP who I thought was my dual but I realized I what I thought were dual dynamics were actually activity dynamics.

    We had agreed that we would record some music. when he got here he decided that wanted to get a pair of jeans why he couldn't get a pair of jeans while he was up here I will never know they have the same shops back where he lives same prices and all too.

    To make matters worse it took him an hour to do his freakin' hair. when we got back it was too late to crank our amps and do some recording.

    Over the course of the 2 days we grew tired of each other.
    After going to my room for to listen a one song, I was good to go again.

    I am very angular in my movements I had a chance to compare our refections in the mirror when I was trying to to get him to hurry the hell up when he was doing his hair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    So you are an idiot then?
    18. PUNITIVENESS (PU)

    The belief that people should be harshly punished for making mistakes. Involves the tendency to be angry, intolerant, punitive, and impatient with those people (including oneself) who do not meet one's expectations or standards. Usually includes difficulty forgiving mistakes in oneself or others, because of a reluctance to consider extenuating circumstances, allow for human imperfection, or empathize with feelings.


    If there is one real idiot on this forum, it's you, Phaedrus. But you're so darn sure of yourself, that you don't see it. It's so obvious.... too bad...
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    I don't think Phaedrus is being punitive. I think he gets frustrated when people don't see what is extremely clear to him. Then he vents and calls them idiots and morons. I must be insane, but I think he is tolerant of what he perceives as mistakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I don't think Phaedrus is being punitive. I think he gets frustrated when people don't see what is extremely clear to him. Then he vents and calls them idiots and morons. I must be insane, but I think he is tolerant of what he perceives as mistakes.
    Leading types on this forum understand me very well, sometimes even extremely well. You are right to the point here (except that I don't think you have to be insane to see it).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Leading types on this forum understand me very well, sometimes even extremely well. You are right to the point here (except that I don't think you have to be insane to see it).
    i understand you very well...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I don't think Phaedrus is being punitive. I think he gets frustrated when people don't see what is extremely clear to him. Then he vents and calls them idiots and morons. I must be insane, but I think he is tolerant of what he perceives as mistakes.
    Elaborate, please, because I don't see how calling people "idiots" all the time when they don't see what is "the obvious thing" in his humble opinion, can be considered 'tolerant'.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    It's just that while I'm deep in thought I give off a more serious and introverted sense. But when someone draws me out of that and brings me back to the moment, then I'm back to that obviously EP style.
    This is something that confuses me as well. The need to be "drawn into the moment" seems more of a sign of introversion? (and no, I'm not confusing confuse "social" introversion with socionic introversion)

    For me personally the thought of being IJ just bores me to death though. I simply can't see myself as having anything fun to do as an IJ (nothing against you guys ).

    Your friend might just be typed wrong. I had a friend who we were both certain was ISFp, but turns out he's probably ENFj or something. We would make all these plans, but when we hung out it was a really weird dynamic, definitely not duality.
    ILE - Ti.

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    Yeah, I know it sounds strange, but I'm definitely an EP. What happens is that I get lost in my own thoughts and sometimes "space out". This often comes off as introversion, but that isn't really true.
    ILE
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    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

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