ISTj/ISFj-INFp relationship and love

[calenwen]

1

[cracka]

I'm guessing you've told him that you loved him already?

[Elro]

Okay, so I'm kind of embarrassed to even be posting this, but I could really use some opinions/advice.

My boyfriend (INFp) and I have been going out for almost a year. I would say we were pretty "serious" from the start and I suppose we're about as committed as one can be at our age (early 20s).
When we started going out he told me that he had never been "in love" before, (I found that rather hard to believe, but I didn't say anything), and now, while he gives every indication of loving me, he doesn't say it.
Our values, life goals, interests, etc. are all very similar and I've honestly never gotten along better with anyone. We're extremely compatible, but of course this all means nothing if he doesn't love me.

I just... I don't know where to go from here. It seems a waste to throw it away, but I can't live with the insecurity and doubt that him not loving me causes.

I mean, is this common for INFps? Should I give him more time? Or am I just not the right person or something...?

I'm out of ideas.

What makes you think he doesn't?

[calenwen]

I'm guessing you've told him that you loved him already?

Yes.

What makes you think he doesn't?

He doesn't say it. I would be inclined to think that he does and just doesn't know it - he's rather confused about his emotions. But alas, he has said that he does not, leaving me with naught but the fragile promise of "I will." Ha.

[Elro]

He doesn't say it. I would be inclined to think that he does and just doesn't know it - he's rather confused about his emotions. But alas, he has said that he does not, leaving me with naught but the fragile promise of "I will." Ha.

That he does not know?

Rather than just point-blank asking him if he loves you (which might seem a bit out of the blue), you might just talk to him about it and explain what's going on - maybe he has no idea you've been worried about it.

[redbaron]

He may think that saying I love you is a really big deal and that it would push the relationship forward too much or more than he's ready to go. So my advice would be (more as a female than an IEI) to either make your peace with it and get yourself truly okay with him not saying it and continue on as usual. Or tell him that you want to start seeing other people. Why should you be tied down to someone, and unhappy? I know that sounds simplistic but if you continue this road with this nagging bit of unhappiness, he's going to feel it whether you want him to or not. He'll sense it and it'll be a strain on the relationship.

[Blaze]

Ouch, that really sucks. But I know how you feel, the only person I ever dated treated me in the exact same way. Are you 100% sure that he's an INFp? I don't think that's common behavior for them but I'm not a socionics guru either. Though it's not uncommon to have never been in love before. Having a crush or feeling lusty yes, but some folks don't fall in love until later in life, some may never fall in love.

yeah that's the first thing that i thought too; doesn't sound like typical infp behavior. but you guys are on the young side like Chibi says. a lot of males might not want to express strong emotions at this age....the implications are too heavy.

why not just say: soooo how are you feeling about us? where do you think we are headed?

[Park]

Why do you want to hear it? Saying it would mean absolutely nothing, imo.

[xyz]

Why do you want to hear it? Saying it would mean absolutely nothing, imo.

Exactly. Calenwen, You have all these other indicators that others would kill for and you're stressing out over him saying it?

[calenwen]

1

[xyz]

Then she's in the wrong relationship.

I guess I will just ask him where he thinks we're headed. That would be a good conversation ...starter.

That is a good idea.

[calenwen]

Exactly. Calenwen, You have all these other indicators that others would kill for and you're stressing out over him saying it?

I need verbal affirmations. Without them I'm insecure and full of doubts. I hate that I'm this way, but....

[xyz]

I need verbal affirmations. Without them I'm insecure and full of doubts. I hate that I'm this way, but....

Does he know this about you? Have you told him? He might think you don't need the verbal affirmations. Not saying they're wrong, just saying he might not know.

[calenwen]

Does he know this about you? Have you told him? He might think you don't need the verbal affirmations. Not saying they're wrong, just saying he might not know.

I have told him. Which just makes it all even worse.

[Park]

I need verbal affirmations. Without them I'm insecure and full of doubts. I hate that I'm this way, but....

I wonder if this applies to most Fe creatives in general.

[calenwen]

I wonder if this applies to most Fe creatives in general.

Well, I know that he is the same way. And although he needs them a little less than me, it's all just very stupid. Because, like, how hard is it to get that. Seriously.

[xyz]

I have told him. Which just makes it all even worse.

Well then, if he really is an IEI, maybe you're caregiver attitudes aren't strong enough for him. Maybe you need to be a little more aggressive about this?

[Park]

I have told him. Which just makes it all even worse.

Knowing it wouldn't make someone being able to actually give that. I probably couldn't, for instance.

[Park]

Well, I know that he is the same way. And although he needs them a little less than me, it's all just very stupid. Because, like, how hard is it to get that. Seriously.

Should it be easy? Or why should it be easy? Anyhow, I wouldn't understand someone's need to get this so I might not be completely able to see this from your pov.

[calenwen]

Well then, if he really is an IEI, maybe you're caregiver attitudes aren't strong enough for him. Maybe you need to be a little more aggressive about this?

...Me? Aggressive?

Actually...we ended up married for about 4 years. Then after 4 years of non-stop bullshit and mind games I decided to get a divorce ^^;

And now that we're best friends again (like we were before we started dating)...he tells me that he's in love with me. It's...odd. When we were married he told me that he was never in love with me nor could ever be in love with me, and that my smell didn't do anything for him. All kinds of messed up crap, some people just have psychological problems.

I doubt that's the case with your guy though, it just seems like a miscommunication of sorts going on between the two of you.

Oh dear. I'm sorry. I hope that's all it is....

[calenwen]

Should it be easy? Or why should it be easy?

Because he is the same as me in that regard (needing affirmation, encouraging crap, etc). Shouldn't he understand how I feel and act accordingly? I would think so, but apparently you are right and it is not that easy.

[redbaron]

What means nothing to someone can mean the world to someone else. We all value different things.
I understand how calenwen feels, I couldn't be in a relationship with someone who is incapable of telling me how they feel.

Some people are able to be in a relationship with another person just knowing that they love them, they can feel it in the way it's expressed. People like me, well we second guess things. We over analyze and go back and forth wondering what the true intentions are. I can't take a hint nor do I do well at noticing intentions, people like me need things put into words so that we know for sure what's going on. Not saying Calenwen is like me, that's just my example as to why some people need emotions put to words.

I agree with this. When I was in my early 20s I definitely needed to hear it. And frankly, I'm not sure I could be married to someone even now who didn't say it once in awhile (my ESE husband says it several times per day). I have a couple of friends whose spouses never say it even though they show them in many ways that they love them and one of my friends is pretty sad about that. In all other ways their marriage is good. But she needs to hear it. (she's LII and he's ILE) Anyway, my point being that if you need to hear it, you should make sure you end up with someone who can say it verbally. Sounds like he's not ready. I'm sorry.

I was friends with an SEI once who absolutely could not verbalize any of his feelings. That's just the way he was. He could show you with his actions but he could not come right out and say anything. Based on some things he told me about his marriage, he was the same way with his wife. And if something bothered him, he would totally clam up. Man there is just no way I could live with someone like that. No way. You'd be forever guessing, forever tip-toeing around, wondering. gah, a nightmare.

[xyz]

If he is the say way with verbal affirmations and so are you, I really don't see why he just doesn't fucking say it.

Yeah, be more aggressive with him. I mean your current methods aren't working. Maybe you need to tell him that he NEEDS to tell you that he loves you or else you might start having doubts.

[Park]

Because he is the same as me in that regard (needing affirmation, encouraging crap, etc). Shouldn't he understand how I feel and act accordingly?

If that's the case then yes, I would guess it should be that way and he should have no problem reciprocating your feelings.

[Suomea]

...

[Blaze]

ok so this is a purely socionics interpretation, not really based on anything you've said about him and you, so don't feel like it's personalized feedback or anything.....:-)

you are in a lookalike relation. so that means that you both are IP temperament, your leading is Si his is Ni, your creative and polr's are the same. role functions are opposing just like leading.

ok so if he you both have Fe then theoretically you'd both be more concerned with the overall mood and expressing of emotions....does he express other emotions easily? do you bond on this?

ok then you have an opposing force of Ni vs Si. what he's good at you're not and vice versa. you both wish you could be better at what the other person is really good at. but really what you both want, the other person has to reach deeply into their unconscious block to provide. he would want some good old fashioned Se from you and you want some Ne from him. neither of you particularly enjoy providing these, although you can if you try. but basically you like to relax, so does he, how do you get things done? who provides the drive to move you both into action?

then, of course, there's only weak logic. you both want Ti from someone else but neither of you will do this for the other since you might not be all that good at it.

ok so i know this answers none of your questions about love calenwen. but if there is one thing i've learned about IEI's is that they tend to think very deeply about things and question things a lot. some of the imbedded incompatibilities may be at the root of what he is thinking about but might not know how to express.

you could think about how your functions line up....and then consider how well you are really able to meet one another's needs. or you could observe the relation from a socionics standpoint and see what makes the relationship tick. or most importantly, you could think about your needs only (most important for women esp) and assess whether he is really meeting them.

[calenwen]

I agree with this. When I was in my early 20s I definitely needed to hear it. And frankly, I'm not sure I could be married to someone even now who didn't say it once in awhile (my ESE husband says it several times per day). I have a couple of friends whose spouses never say it even though they show them in many ways that they love them and one of my friends is pretty sad about that. In all other ways their marriage is good. But she needs to hear it. (she's LII and he's ILE) Anyway, my point being that if you need to hear it, you should make sure you end up with someone who can say it verbally. Sounds like he's not ready. I'm sorry.

I was friends with an SEI once who absolutely could not verbalize any of his feelings. That's just the way he was. He could show you with his actions but he could not come right out and say anything. Based on some things he told me about his marriage, he was the same way with his wife. And if something bothered him, he would totally clam up. Man there is just no way I could live with someone like that. No way. You'd be forever guessing, forever tip-toeing around, wondering. gah, a nightmare.

Yeah, I mean it's not the end of the world right now or anything, but what if he never says it? There is no way I could live with that forever. I just don't know if I should give it more time or, like Luis suggested, start dishing out ultimatums.
I mean, I guess eventually we would break up over it if he never said it - and the longer I wait, the harder it will be to break up, so...?

I would suggest not thinking about socionics in this type of thing at all. I think finding out where the relationship is going is a good idea.

Yeah, I would tend to agree....

[xyz]

That's telling her to behave like an aggressor though, isn't it? You're telling her to complete his victim needs, but I don't think she should take up a role she doesn't feel comfortable with, nor should anyone. If after sitting down and talking with him about this issue things don't get better then...I know it's not a happy thing to hear but it might be for the best to call the whole thing off, or maybe take a break and see what happens. There's always the option of waiting it out but I wouldn't recommend that, I did the very same thing and look what happened to me? lol.

It's a last ditch effort, yeah. If not then just leave, calenwen will be better off.

[redbaron]

Yeah, I mean it's not the end of the world right now or anything, but what if he never says it? There is no way I could live with that forever. I just don't know if I should give it more time or, like Luis suggested, start dishing out ultimatums.
I mean, I guess eventually we would break up over it if he never said it - and the longer I wait, the harder it will be to break up, so...?

It could just be something like this: "Although I do really care about you, I'd like to be free to see other people". If he presses you for reasons, you could say you're no longer willing to be completely committed to someone who doesn't feel the same about you as you do about him. I think that might make him take a closer look at how he feels about you. Once he sees he might lose you, that situation will clarify a lot of things, in my opinion. If he really is lukewarm about you, then he may walk away. But better now than later when it will be harder. If he really does love you deep down, he'll be forced to face that fact and decide if he wants to risk the loss.

[xyz]

Him saying he had never been in love almost sounded like hidden agenda stuff to me.

He could just be , oh i don't know, telling the truth you know.


Edit:
Calwenwen, either way, good luck.

[Blaze]

my head trip reply got lost in the repartee here....

[redbaron]

He could just be , oh i don't know, telling the truth you know.

LOL that occurred to me also.

[calenwen]

ok so this is a purely socionics interpretation, not really based on anything you've said about him and you, so don't feel like it's personalized feedback or anything.....:-)

you are in a lookalike relation. so that means that you both are IP temperament, your leading is Si his is Ni, your creative and polr's are the same. role functions are opposing just like leading.

ok so if he you both have Fe then theoretically you'd both be more concerned with the overall mood and expressing of emotions....does he express other emotions easily? do you bond on this?

ok then you have an opposing force of Ni vs Si. what he's good at you're not and vice versa. you both wish you could be better at what the other person is really good at. but really what you both want, the other person has to reach deeply into their unconscious block to provide. he would want some good old fashioned Se from you and you want some Ne from him. neither of you particularly enjoy providing these, although you can if you try. but basically you like to relax, so does he, how do you get things done? who provides the drive to move you both into action?

then, of course, there's only weak logic. you both want Ti from someone else but neither of you will do this for the other since you might not be all that good at it.

ok so i know this answers none of your questions about love calenwen. but if there is one thing i've learned about IEI's is that they tend to think very deeply about things and question things a lot. some of the embedded incompatibilities may be at the root of what he is thinking about but might not know how to express.

you could think about how your functions line up....and then consider how well you are really able to meet one another's needs. or you could observe the relation from a socionics standpoint and see what makes the relationship tick. or most importantly, you could think about your needs only (most important for women esp) and assess whether he is really meeting them.

When it comes to expressing other emotions, no. I usually have to bring it up and he'll respond. I often wonder if he is an INFp - in every aspect but his emotions he seems to be. I've had him take the test several times, and he tests as INFp every time. Whatever. I don't know.
I'm the motivator when it comes to getting out and doing things. After a few days I get bored of sitting around.
I know that he does question things a lot. He'll brood about things for weeks and finally he'll be ready to talk about and it's always really... unexpected.
As a whole, though, we honestly do get along quite well. It's just this one thing. I was actually in a relationship with an ENTp for a little over a year and I get along with my INFp much better than I ever got along with the ENTp.

I don't recommend ultimatums, that's one sure fire way to encourage him to play mind games with you. As far as waiting goes, you're right. It'll only get harder and harder to break up with him if he never changes. But on top of that who knows? He could change. It's a gamble, just gotta go with your feelings on this.

I wish I could help more but I don't anything about this guy's personality other then he makes me think of an ISTp oddly enough. Him saying he had never been in love almost sounded like hidden agenda stuff to me.

Hm, ISTp....
He's pretty straight forward, though. Very upfront and simple about things.
God, I just have no idea what to do. How pathetic.

[calenwen]

It could just be something like this: "Although I do really care about you, I'd like to be free to see other people". If he presses you for reasons, you could say you're no longer willing to be completely committed to someone who doesn't feel the same about you as you do about him. I think that might make him take a closer look at how he feels about you. Once he sees he might lose you, that situation will clarify a lot of things, in my opinion. If he really is lukewarm about you, then he may walk away. But better now than later when it will be harder. If he really does love you deep down, he'll be forced to face that fact and decide if he wants to risk the loss.

I like this idea. It will make him seriously consider things without outright ending everything all at once.

[redbaron]

you're definitely NOT pathetic. This is hard and you obviously care about him. You know, I think a lot of males in general have a hard time expressing their feelings through words. It could be more of a gender thing than a type thing.

[calenwen]

That's not pathetic, anyone in the same situation would have difficulty deciding what to do. There's no easy answer for something like this. Don't get down on yourself

you're definitely NOT pathetic. This is hard and you obviously care about him. You know, I think a lot of males in general have a hard time expressing their feelings through words. It could be more of a gender thing than a type thing.

Thanks, guys. I'll keep all this in mind. Hopefully I can talk to him about it tonight.

[Wittmont]

Ok I just came to this thread and read all of it. When I am hopelessly in love I sing it out high and low and give a LOT of attention (Fe and otherwise) and also want a lot of verbal feedback (as others here also noted they need). I am not so good at reading more action oriented feedback unless there is a constant dialogue what is going on (depends on the action ofc heh ). But I simply cannot shut up about it to my loved one.

My first thought was that he is not INFp. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt ofc as you point out chances are he is simply confused about where to take things. Still not admitting his true emotions is Very untypical of INFp's. INFp's are supposed to be emotionally in tune and honest about their emotions.

It wouldn't surprise me if he is INFj and you are in a relationship of Benefit. Just a thought.

[thePirate]

Okay, so I'm kind of embarrassed to even be posting this, but I could really use some opinions/advice.

My boyfriend (INFp) and I have been going out for almost a year. I would say we were pretty "serious" from the start and I suppose we're about as committed as one can be at our age (early 20s).
When we started going out he told me that he had never been "in love" before, (I found that rather hard to believe, but I didn't say anything), and now, while he gives every indication of loving me, he doesn't say it.
Our values, life goals, interests, etc. are all very similar and I've honestly never gotten along better with anyone. We're extremely compatible, but of course this all means nothing if he doesn't love me.

I just... I don't know where to go from here. It seems a waste to throw it away, but I can't live with the insecurity and doubt that him not loving me causes.

I mean, is this common for INFps? Should I give him more time? Or am I just not the right person or something...?

I'm out of ideas.

This sounds EXTREMELY insecure, and VERY UNNATTRACTIVE.


Let me tell you, there is nothing less attractive then a woman thinking this way, and although these short term fixes suggested may get you peace of mind in THIS situation, dozens will resurface like it.

So instead of putting a band-aid over YOUR problem, try and reassess why you are being so needy in terms of his love. This has nothing to do with him, but more about you and your unhappiness. A couple of words from him should not dictate how you feel about him or anyone.

To say you are going to toss a year because of your own insecurity is really ridiculous. Alot of the blame youre putting is on him, as if his actions cause your doubts. ITS ALL YOU, AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE YOU.

With every relationship.

[Elro]

This sounds EXTREMELY insecure, and VERY UNNATTRACTIVE.


Let me tell you, there is nothing less attractive then a woman thinking this way, and although these short term fixes suggested may get you peace of mind in THIS situation, dozens will resurface like it.

So instead of putting a band-aid over YOUR problem, try and reassess why you are being so needy in terms of his love. This has nothing to do with him, but more about you and your unhappiness. A couple of words from him should not dictate how you feel about him or anyone.

To say you are going to toss a year because of your own insecurity is really ridiculous. Alot of the blame youre putting is on him, as if his actions cause your doubts. ITS ALL YOU, AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE YOU.

With every relationship.

This is a good point. I'm not sure all of the blame is on you (I don't really know your situation well), but sometimes a lot of this kind of stuff is mostly in your head, and it requires taking a step back to see that. (I know this from experience. )

[calenwen]

Ok I just came to this thread and read all of it. When I am hopelessly in love I sing it out high and low and give a LOT of attention (Fe and otherwise) and also want a lot of verbal feedback (as others here also noted they need). I am not so good at reading more action oriented feedback unless there is a constant dialogue what is going on (depends on the action ofc heh ). But I simply cannot shut up about it to my loved one.

My first thought was that he is not INFp. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt ofc as you point out chances are he is simply confused about where to take things. Still not admitting his true emotions is Very untypical of INFp's. INFp's are supposed to be emotionally in tune and honest about their emotions.

It wouldn't surprise me if he is INFj and you are in a relationship of Benefit. Just a thought.

Hm. I'll go brush up on INFjs.
Benefit?

This sounds EXTREMELY insecure, and VERY UNNATTRACTIVE.


Let me tell you, there is nothing less attractive then a woman thinking this way, and although these short term fixes suggested may get you peace of mind in THIS situation, dozens will resurface like it.

So instead of putting a band-aid over YOUR problem, try and reassess why you are being so needy in terms of his love. This has nothing to do with him, but more about you and your unhappiness. A couple of words from him should not dictate how you feel about him or anyone.

To say you are going to toss a year because of your own insecurity is really ridiculous. Alot of the blame youre putting is on him, as if his actions cause your doubts. ITS ALL YOU, AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE YOU.

With every relationship.

It's not the words. It's what is behind them.
I hardly think it's "needy" to desire to be loved. Isn't that what relationships are about?