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Thread: ESI: The Case for UDP

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default ESI: The Case for UDP

    This can also be found here, on my userlist.

    Finally, after so much observation, I've been able to place UDP in the Gamma niche. There are a lot of minor details which contribute to UDP's being an ESI, but those will be dealt with after the major factors have been considered. Firstly, why is UDP part of a Se/Ni valuing quadra as opposed to a Ne/Si one? Well, for two reasons. One, there is his consistent interest in Ni-related symbolism (often he'll have something like a Chinese character or a spiritual figure as his avatar) and a spiritualistic idealism which arises out of his valuing Ni. Although many would consider this to be more of a Beta ST fascination as opposed to a Gamma SF one, I personally don't feel it's limited to Beta, and in any case, I doubt UDP is Beta, as I'll explain in further detail. Deltas are uninterested in spiritual enlightenment in the way UDP is (certainly none of the Deltas on the forum has demonstrated such an avid interest as he). I, as a Ni/Se valuer, can sympathise with his fixation on this kind of lifestyle (a few years ago, I was fanatical about Eastern spiritualism), and I expect many other Betas and Gammas on the forum a) will also sympathise and b) will understand completely where UDP is coming from. Most of the Deltas, however, will most likely not feel any kind of affinity with his perspective. Two, UDP has this Se edge about him, one that I can only personally vouch for intuitively; something which I recognise just from the way he acts. He has a rigidity above and beyond the LSE, and, moreover, a Ne/Si valuing quadra; there's a grounded steadiness to UDP, but one which is readily combative. He has no problem expressing why he has an issue with someone or something someone has done or said, which would suggest that he is willing to accept the consequences of his own words.

    The second question, arguably more important than the first, is why he is Fi base and not, say, Te base. The answer is threefold. Firstly, there is this moralistic drive in UDP, contrary to whatever he might say about any "morals". I'm making no claims about said system, and what he values morally and what he does not value, nor am I attempting to assign any specific moral code to his own agenda. What I am arguing for is that UDP displays complete support for what he would (and does) deem to be morally righteous. For a start, there is his affinity with Minde, which he would argue is duality. In actual fact, what UDP is appealing to is not her Fi to aid his own efforts in a Fi dual seeking way; rather, he is identifying with that in which he is competent and that in which he is glad to see that Minde is competent also. UDP himself willingly expresses moralistic sentiments about any given person's behaviour, without the help of any Fi ego individual. Secondly, there is UDP's consistently demonstrated focus of his personal sentiments regarding individuals. For example, in one post in a thread I had created specifically to agitate this trait, he explained that I was annoyed (conveyed in a retaliative post to his initial post on the thread) that he didn't like my joke, while he found everyone else's funny. Most of the threads he starts are either about his trying to convey that he is competent in Te (more about that later) or, moreover, about how he feels about individuals both on and off the forum (refer to his posts about dinner with IEIs, or about the people in his life that he enjoys spending time with etc.), which indicate strongly that he has more of a focus on Te than he does on Fi (nonetheless, he evidently does express that he values Te), and thus more skill in Fi than in Te. Thirdly, his supervision of me is overwhelming. He persistently regards what I say and do as either being deliberately provocative, or as having a negative impact on himself or on others. He implicitly demonstrates his disappointment that he can't relate to either what I or what other Fe valuing individuals say or do. This only causes me to react aggressively towards him in effort to wind him up further, which merely escalates the situation and lowers his opinion of me.

    There are a few other, more minor arguments than the two main ones outlined above. UDP asks a lot of questions, and a great many more than any of the other Te ego types on the forum have done so. Such conduct is related to an individual who desires information which comes primarily from Te; that is, he craves Te. UDP is unable to evaluate "what is going on" as such; the logic of the situation, if you like, which Te egos are perfectly capable of doing, and which Te base types in particular should be very adept at doing (UDP, however, is not). Another point worth taking into consideration is his temperament. I've seen him on cam, and I've heard him speak, and he is not EJ temperament. I've had experience of EJs throughout my life as well as on the forum, and UDP displays this groundedness I mentioned before which the EJ lacks. There's a seriousness about him I can only attribute to IJ; in fact, I've never known anyone to take himself so seriously. UDP internalises rather than expresses. He doesn't hand out information like a Te ego type does; rather, you get the feeling that he always takes into consideration everything that you're saying, in a kind of "I may use this later" Se way. What I was referring to about his attempts to convey Te in his posts are actually a very good example of a Te dual seeking individual. It's as if he's looked at a description of Te, seen that they use algorithms to achieve their goals, and posted an algorithm for washing one's hair correctly. Not only is this slightly embarrassing (as it makes people think "no, UDP, that is not what Te is about) - whatever his intentions, even if they're not the ones I just outlined - but it's actually very revealing. It shows that he has a clear desire for the kind of algorithmic behaviour associated with Te types.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    tereg's Avatar
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    I like where you're going with this, but there is one thing I need clarification on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Two, UDP has this Se edge about him, one that I can only personally vouch for intuitively; something which I recognise just from the way he acts. He has a rigidity above and beyond the LSE, and, moreover, a Ne/Si valuing quadra; there's a grounded steadiness to UDP, but one which is readily combative. He has no problem expressing why he has an issue with someone or something someone has done or said, which would suggest that he is willing to accept the consequences of his own words.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    UDP himself willingly expresses moralistic sentiments about any given person's behaviour, without the help of any Fi ego individual. Secondly, there is UDP's consistently demonstrated focus of his personal sentiments regarding individuals. For example, in one post in a thread I had created specifically to agitate this trait, he explained that I was annoyed (conveyed in a retaliative post to his initial post on the thread) that he didn't like my joke, while he found everyone else's funny.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I've had experience of EJs throughout my life as well as on the forum, and UDP displays this groundedness I mentioned before which the EJ lacks. There's a seriousness about him I can only attribute to IJ; in fact, I've never known anyone to take himself so seriously. UDP internalises rather than expresses. He doesn't hand out information like a Te ego type does; rather, you get the feeling that he always takes into consideration everything that you're saying, in a kind of "I may use this later" Se way.
    I need you to clarify these times in which he internalises rather than expresses. Because clearly, he is not afraid to express himself when he has an opinion to give.

    Otherwise, I think you have made some good points here.
    INFj

    9w1 sp/sx

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    what i ask over and over again is how and why on earth an ESI could possibly have issues with mundane tasks like how to shampoo one's hair, what cellphone plan to use, whatever. while this could look a bit like Te-seeking perhaps i doubt it is a sign of being a strongly sensory type.
    IJ mundanery.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    I object to giving UDP a case of ESI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    I object to giving UDP a case of ESI.

    I myself have always thought of Fe as a 7th function as a disease...poor guy...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    sounds pretty bad.
    Almost as bad as you in bed.

    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  7. #7
    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    This can also be found here, on my userlist.

    Finally, after so much observation, I've been able to place UDP in the Gamma niche. There are a lot of minor details which contribute to UDP's being an ESI, but those will be dealt with after the major factors have been considered. Firstly, why is UDP part of a Se/Ni valuing quadra as opposed to a Ne/Si one? Well, for two reasons. One, there is his consistent interest in Ni-related symbolism (often he'll have something like a Chinese character or a spiritual figure as his avatar) and a spiritualistic idealism which arises out of his valuing Ni. Although many would consider this to be more of a Beta ST fascination as opposed to a Gamma SF one, I personally don't feel it's limited to Beta, and in any case, I doubt UDP is Beta, as I'll explain in further detail. Deltas are uninterested in spiritual enlightenment in the way UDP is (certainly none of the Deltas on the forum has demonstrated such an avid interest as he). I, as a Ni/Se valuer, can sympathise with his fixation on this kind of lifestyle (a few years ago, I was fanatical about Eastern spiritualism), and I expect many other Betas and Gammas on the forum a) will also sympathise and b) will understand completely where UDP is coming from. Most of the Deltas, however, will most likely not feel any kind of affinity with his perspective. Two, UDP has this Se edge about him, one that I can only personally vouch for intuitively; something which I recognise just from the way he acts. He has a rigidity above and beyond the LSE, and, moreover, a Ne/Si valuing quadra; there's a grounded steadiness to UDP, but one which is readily combative. He has no problem expressing why he has an issue with someone or something someone has done or said, which would suggest that he is willing to accept the consequences of his own words.
    If you also recall, many of UDP's early threads usually were about looking for a direction in life (), which were overall rather atypical amongst the other Alpha threads in the sub-forum.

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    I can't see UDP Se creative. At all.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    I can't see UDP Se creative. At all.
    But can you see him as an LSE?

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    glad i've convinced you!
    WAAHH MARIA DOESN'T LIKE ME
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    But can you see him as an LSE?
    I'm not sure tbh.

    Hmmm I'm going to take back what I said. I suppose ESI could make sense.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    can anyone see UDP as their dual or in their quadra?
    that should be a poll.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    i'll leave the polling to joy and ezra.
    yay duals for udp!
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    I need you to clarify these times in which he internalises rather than expresses. Because clearly, he is not afraid to express himself when he has an opinion to give.
    Essentially, this is an intuition I have. If you offer him criticism or feedback, he doesn't stonewall it like an extrovert. I mean, I can't know he does this, but I think he thinks about what you've said; he considers it, and will or will not change his opinion based on it. When he expresses his opinion, it's never about the feedback someone's given him; it always has to do with a dilemma he's facing, or a problem he has regarding what someone has said or done that he disapproves of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    Spend a few minutes imagining him with an ENTj and consider how much sense that really makes. How would he respond to the ENTj's Si polr?
    He'd cope fine with it.

    What about the lack of Fi and Fe confidence?
    I think he's giving off an image of what he believes is an LSE.

    And what is it with the odd ESI suggestions lately? First thehotel suggests Allie, now Ezra suggests UDP. While Ezra's suggestion is better, it still doesn't fit well.
    Better? thehotelambush didn't actually offer a real argument for ESI. It was strung together from ridiculous observations that made absolutely no sense from the point of view of reality and what Allie actually is, socionically and generally.

    UDP, you may be upset with me for this, but I still have a hard time imagining you as anything besides INTj, even as long as you've typed yourself ESTj.
    Please explain where you see the Ti.

    I do agree with FDG though, that a person's self-typing should have more weight[...].
    Why? Especially when the evidence is so blatently contrary to what they're claiming. He claims he's Ni PoLR, which is ridiculous, as I've explained.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    I want to draw people's attention to a post made in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Find something I enjoy doing and do it. Develop useful skills within the next 20 years, and connections, to make sure I am not sitting on my ass in front of a huge TV sipping wine until I am too tired to stay awake. Be a chairman, president, advocate, something. Be involved. I was not made for... regular civilian life.
    First off, civilian life wtf? Are you a soldier, UDP?

    Secondly, this entire post is Se/Ni. Then you have this "connections" thing, which is related to the Gamma SF's motivation.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    I have a question - If interest in mysticism and spiritual ideals and whatnot is correlated and tied to Ni, why aren't people with Ni in the ego, like Expat or Niffweed, more interested and fluent in that stuff? I don't quite understand why that necessarily must indicate strength in or a desire for Ni.
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    If interest in mysticism and spiritual ideals and whatnot is correlated and tied to Ni, why aren't people with Ni in the ego, like Expat or Niffweed, more interested and fluent in that stuff?
    Hmm but you can understand something just fine but not be interested at all in it. (You can even mock or hate it) I'm a good scientist based on personality and can do it, but I'd much rather do what I want to based on flavor. It probably takes other functions in other blocks to get the 'being good at it' AND the raw 'I REALLY like doing this!'

    As for Expat being.. Expat. Well, Expat just comes off as a person that really doesn't know how to get laid for the life of him, so I feel sorry for the guy. Even if we're not conflictors we sure treat each other that way, huh?

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    I respect UDP but I cannot see him as my dual or even in my quadra. I personally think he must be in gamma or delta. He's always seems serious>merry. And every time I read one of his posts I nod my head thinking that my EII mother would adore him. I mean, he'd be like the dream man that she would think every girl should want.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    This can also be found here, on my userlist.

    Finally, after so much observation, I've been able to place UDP in the Gamma niche. There are a lot of minor details which contribute to UDP's being an ESI, but those will be dealt with after the major factors have been considered. Firstly, why is UDP part of a Se/Ni valuing quadra as opposed to a Ne/Si one? Well, for two reasons. One, there is his consistent interest in Ni-related symbolism (often he'll have something like a Chinese character or a spiritual figure as his avatar) and a spiritualistic idealism which arises out of his valuing Ni. Although many would consider this to be more of a Beta ST fascination as opposed to a Gamma SF one, I personally don't feel it's limited to Beta, and in any case, I doubt UDP is Beta, as I'll explain in further detail. Deltas are uninterested in spiritual enlightenment in the way UDP is (certainly none of the Deltas on the forum has demonstrated such an avid interest as he). I, as a Ni/Se valuer, can sympathise with his fixation on this kind of lifestyle (a few years ago, I was fanatical about Eastern spiritualism), and I expect many other Betas and Gammas on the forum a) will also sympathise and b) will understand completely where UDP is coming from. Most of the Deltas, however, will most likely not feel any kind of affinity with his perspective. Two, UDP has this Se edge about him, one that I can only personally vouch for intuitively; something which I recognise just from the way he acts. He has a rigidity above and beyond the LSE, and, moreover, a Ne/Si valuing quadra; there's a grounded steadiness to UDP, but one which is readily combative. He has no problem expressing why he has an issue with someone or something someone has done or said, which would suggest that he is willing to accept the consequences of his own words.

    The second question, arguably more important than the first, is why he is Fi base and not, say, Te base. The answer is threefold. Firstly, there is this moralistic drive in UDP, contrary to whatever he might say about any "morals". I'm making no claims about said system, and what he values morally and what he does not value, nor am I attempting to assign any specific moral code to his own agenda. What I am arguing for is that UDP displays complete support for what he would (and does) deem to be morally righteous. For a start, there is his affinity with Minde, which he would argue is duality. In actual fact, what UDP is appealing to is not her Fi to aid his own efforts in a Fi dual seeking way; rather, he is identifying with that in which he is competent and that in which he is glad to see that Minde is competent also. UDP himself willingly expresses moralistic sentiments about any given person's behaviour, without the help of any Fi ego individual. Secondly, there is UDP's consistently demonstrated focus of his personal sentiments regarding individuals. For example, in one post in a thread I had created specifically to agitate this trait, he explained that I was annoyed (conveyed in a retaliative post to his initial post on the thread) that he didn't like my joke, while he found everyone else's funny. Most of the threads he starts are either about his trying to convey that he is competent in Te (more about that later) or, moreover, about how he feels about individuals both on and off the forum (refer to his posts about dinner with IEIs, or about the people in his life that he enjoys spending time with etc.), which indicate strongly that he has more of a focus on Te than he does on Fi (nonetheless, he evidently does express that he values Te), and thus more skill in Fi than in Te. Thirdly, his supervision of me is overwhelming. He persistently regards what I say and do as either being deliberately provocative, or as having a negative impact on himself or on others. He implicitly demonstrates his disappointment that he can't relate to either what I or what other Fe valuing individuals say or do. This only causes me to react aggressively towards him in effort to wind him up further, which merely escalates the situation and lowers his opinion of me.

    There are a few other, more minor arguments than the two main ones outlined above. UDP asks a lot of questions, and a great many more than any of the other Te ego types on the forum have done so. Such conduct is related to an individual who desires information which comes primarily from Te; that is, he craves Te. UDP is unable to evaluate "what is going on" as such; the logic of the situation, if you like, which Te egos are perfectly capable of doing, and which Te base types in particular should be very adept at doing (UDP, however, is not). Another point worth taking into consideration is his temperament. I've seen him on cam, and I've heard him speak, and he is not EJ temperament. I've had experience of EJs throughout my life as well as on the forum, and UDP displays this groundedness I mentioned before which the EJ lacks. There's a seriousness about him I can only attribute to IJ; in fact, I've never known anyone to take himself so seriously. UDP internalises rather than expresses. He doesn't hand out information like a Te ego type does; rather, you get the feeling that he always takes into consideration everything that you're saying, in a kind of "I may use this later" Se way. What I was referring to about his attempts to convey Te in his posts are actually a very good example of a Te dual seeking individual. It's as if he's looked at a description of Te, seen that they use algorithms to achieve their goals, and posted an algorithm for washing one's hair correctly. Not only is this slightly embarrassing (as it makes people think "no, UDP, that is not what Te is about) - whatever his intentions, even if they're not the ones I just outlined - but it's actually very revealing. It shows that he has a clear desire for the kind of algorithmic behaviour associated with Te types.

    i agree with this. udp seems a good version of Fi male.
    asd

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    Also, UDP and Diana do not seem... identical.
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    Maybe Mirror partners though. They do seem to be from the same quadra at least.

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    It's called Fe, Diana. And you are wrong about my type.

    Jesse, are you sure you're not my dual?

    Last edited by Gilly; 07-15-2008 at 03:08 AM.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    It's called alpha Fe, and alpha Ne, Gilly. And when you finally decide what type you are, then you can say I'm wrong about it. But again that whole alpha Fe and Ne and Ep temperament going for you won't keep you on whatever type you choose for long, so it's rather meaningless to say anyone is right or wrong on it.
    Actually you are wrong again. I have settled on my type: EIE.

    Not that you can't have your own opinion on the matter. It's just wrong.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    I have a question - If interest in mysticism and spiritual ideals and whatnot is correlated and tied to Ni, why aren't people with Ni in the ego, like Expat or Niffweed, more interested and fluent in that stuff? I don't quite understand why that necessarily must indicate strength in or a desire for Ni.
    It's not so much that all Ni egos should be interested in mysticism and spirituality otherwise they're not Ni egos. It's more to do with the fact that someone who expresses a much of an interest in it as Jesse does is unlikely to be Ni PoLR. Basically, not all Ni/Se types are interested in mysticism, but if you are interested in it, it's more than likely that you're a Ni valuing type. I simply couldn't imagine a Ne/Si type being focused on it like he is. Nor could I imagine an Ne/Si type with the primary focus of his avatars being something mystical, esoteric, spiritual or symbolic.

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    As for Expat being.. Expat. Well, Expat just comes off as a person that really doesn't know how to get laid for the life of him, so I feel sorry for the guy. Even if we're not conflictors we sure treat each other that way, huh?
    Just out of curiosity, do you know how old Expat is?

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I respect UDP but I cannot see him as my dual or even in my quadra. I personally think he must be in gamma or delta. He's always seems serious>merry. And every time I read one of his posts I nod my head thinking that my EII mother would adore him. I mean, he'd be like the dream man that she would think every girl should want.
    Oh god...

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Also, UDP and Diana do not seem... identical.
    UDP seems and doesn't seem a lot of things. I trust my own judgement of him and what he says (explicitly and implicitly) far more than I do his or anyone else's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    The whole quest thing actually reminds me of B&D's recent remarks about epicness. I personally believe B&D and Gilly to be alpha. SEI, and ILE.
    Why do you think B&D is SEI? Because Expat said so?

    And have you not by now noticed Gilly's poor logic? There's no method to his typings. He goes "on a whim" and sees what makes most sense to him for some reason. People have about as much base for his being ILE as they do for Allie's being ILE. Incidentally, EIE fits quite well.

    It's funny to me, B&D and Gilly are, it's like watching kids playing make-believe. UDP is clearly more serious and has some real, tangible goals, and does not seem silly in his actions.
    Yes, you're right. UDP is clearly more serious than B&D and Gilly. The most serious guy on the goddamn forum. It has no bearing on type, as even Expat, Isha and niffweed, Gamma NTs (and even you), aren't as serious as he, and Gammas are the most serious quadra.

    It's only in his relationships with others that characteristics come out that seem to me infantile, Si-seeking.
    Please elaborate on this. His relationships with whom in particular? People on the forum? In real life? How have you established how he acts in his real-life relationships?

    I think the kind of interactions he prefers and says that he prefers are certainly much more Ne-Si than Si-Ne, and of a rational rather than irrational bent, so alpha or delta rationals.
    If both B&D and Gilly are Alphas, and Alphas are - to you - silly and unfocused, then why does the possibility that UDP is Alpha remain?

    And of course he's going to say he prefers Ne/Si interactions.

    I prefer Te/Fi Se/Ni interactions. Holy shit, I must be Gamma. I value Te and Ni and am good at these. I am LIE.

    Basically if you put it all together, what he says, it sounds like he wants to be some kind of leader, advocate, so on, and have his partner be the supportive back-up for him that he protects and acts all manly towards. Alpha or delta rationals, not beta or gamma. He wants to be a stalwart of society, not an adventurer. Protect and advocate for, not blaze new trails or discover. Really all his goals sound extremely delta in nature to be honest.
    You must be joking. This is MBTT-bullshit, the same bullshit that makes Eunice believe she is an EII. "Oh, all SJs are the protectors of society and all that matters; they value tradition. ESTJs are manly." Come off it, Diana. All this leadership stuff is pure Se/Ni.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Why do you think B&D is SEI? Because Expat said so?
    1) I can't remember the last time I gave a strong opinion on that, if I said SEI, it must have been ages ago, and fleetingly;
    2) I don't think Diana is likely to think anything of the sort just because I, or anyone, said so.
    Last edited by Expat; 07-15-2008 at 11:25 PM.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    No. We're not. For someone who claims to understand people so well, you really don't understand some people very well. The similarities I share with UDP are not quadra values.
    Meooooow. When you want to borrow my sister's Midol, just ask.

    As for Gilly and I being duals, well I'm not sure. We obviously get along and understand each other very well, and I feel kind of happy and like a little boy when I'm with him, and there are times when something he'll say will make me question something, and I might get mad at myself for idealizing things too much since I rarely find anybody I can really talk to on that level... and I like his narcissistic rants just as he likes mine, and there has always been a certain type of chemistry that I have with men like that, that goes beyond orientation.

    Okay hmm. We're probably duals yeah. =p Until proven otherwise.

    EXPAT & DIANA VS. GILLY & B&D. ROUND 1: FIGHT!

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    Diana tries to punch B&D. B&D blocks and palm strikes the blonde bitch in her face.

    EXPAT: "Diana, what are you doing? You are my healer, you're supposed to stand back and heal."

    GILLY: "Yeah let the extroverts fight each other you silly 'mo!"

    B&D and Diana back off and just kind of glare at each other like two women that have PMS. Suddenly, Expat lets out a Xena warcry and roundhouse kicks Gilly in the face.

    EXPAT: "I HATE EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU, YOUR CURLY HAIR YOUR STUPID GRIN THE WAY YOU JUST LAUGH OFF ALL MY PATHETIC ATTEMPTS AT INSULTS."

    B&D prepares a Greater Heal spell.

    DIANA: YOU FUCKING HOMOSEXUAL! COUNTERSPELL!

    Oh shit... Diana stopped the heal! Gilly continues to lose health while Expat wails on him.

    B&D levitates in the air, wields himself on a chain and kicks Expat off of him.

    Diana's eyes glow black and she telekinetically throws B&D backwards against some conveniently-placed spikes. He loses a whole bunch of HP.

    Gilly turns back around. "SAAAAAAAAAM!"

    B&D looks at Gilly affectionately. Blood erupts out of his chest as he begins to fade and die. "You're one of the few men I ever believed in. I know you can do it."

    TO BE CONTINUED!

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Ni+Fe ftw

    I get along pretty well with Expat though...*shrugs* It's interesting anyways
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Heh yeah I just thought of that.

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    The official socioncs description itself describes ESTj as liking conformity and social norms, which is what the perceptions of manly or not manly truly came from. So I don't think it's an MBTI thing. That was the information and people were just going by what they read.

    Also it's quite arrogant of you to assume that those things you mentioned are the backbone of society, to me the backbone is the more secular workforce... not home/traditional family life. Home and family life is about our ideals and true friendships and people we like enough to call family, but I wouldn't ever call it a backbone.

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Actually Rick's description mentions Gammas wanting to serve society in some way:

    http://socionics.us/theory/quadras.shtml#3

    But obviously you disagree.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    Creepy-Diana

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    .

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    Oh Die-ana. You started off insulting me just because you don't like me, so I'm going to do the same to you. What kind of punk do you take me for?

    Anyways before your rather rude comment to me and your own arrogance that you are so sure of yours and UDP's type, I still think you and UDP are from the same quadra. You both have that serious nature and tone to your posts and all your interactions, and you have the same basic personality which is what this whole thing is about. When you guys try to show feeling and emotion, you sound even meaner than you do usually, so it's probably best for you to try and subdue all that. =/

    You are analyzing things too deeply. You have a similiar 'gist' about you, that I can see you guys getting along great together. You both process information in similiar ways which is what this whole thing is about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    somebody can be both. it's not necessarily one or the other.
    Yeah, seriously; you don't have to be a selfish prick to want nice things for yourself. It's possible to want to contribute to society AND want something in return for it.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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