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Thread: Duality difficulties SLI/IEE

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    w-t-f

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    Isn't how that is with most relationships, though? I find most of mine follow that same progression if you're just not that into the person.

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    I wonder if that's true.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Isn't how that is with most relationships, though? I find most of mine follow that same progression if you're just not that into the person.
    I think it might also have something to do with where each of the people is going in their lives, which I guess is the case for everyone. But maybe this duality more so? SLIs have a hard time determining the potential of the relationship because of weak ethics and unless able to see concrete goals being met, they stop trying and withdraw. I haven't gotten through the whole thing yet though. I'm sure it will take me a while since it is not particularly easy to understand.

    Also, it almost seems like SLIs need to have very concrete goals in mind in order for the relationship to work...like it says here, if they are already looking for a family or a serious relationship...because they have this to work toward? Otherwise it's too uncertain? I don't know....just thinking out loud here.

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    These are pies with kittens? LOL. I need to randomly start using these phrases.

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    Hrm, I always thought that was every relationship.. Maybe I was wrong.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I think IEEs need more interaction/confirmation than most types, and women typically need more than men. If it's natural for a SLI to be silent and withdrawn and need alone-time, and also natural for an IEE to need feed-back and company, I guess it would end up like in the description a lot faster than in other relations. It probably would be more disappointing as well, as the initial period went so well. I definitely know that I, being a female IEE, would go bananas unless I felt that the communication was good. I'd feel so empty and lonely and drained. I need feedback and interaction to reload or else my energy just disappears real fast, and I'd feel as though the partner didn't really care, and that would be devastating.
    Yes. It's almost like "what the heck happened?" "We were so close and now I have no idea where we are." And making such inquiries would probably be resented by the SLI. I think this is more the case if one or both of the people involved don't really know what they want though. Maybe the relationship would work only if both people have a good idea of what they want in life and out of a relationship?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Also, it almost seems like SLIs need to have very concrete goals in mind in order for the relationship to work...like it says here, if they are already looking for a family or a serious relationship...because they have this to work toward? Otherwise it's too uncertain? I don't know....just thinking out loud here.
    I can't speak for all, but for me, yes and I think that drives most people crazy. If you don't have goals for the relationship and where it's headed, then what do you have? Not much. I dont know, I like to have things labeled and understood and know where it's going and what they expect out of me and what we are...if they don't provide those answers you're not going to get much out of me. But that's just me being a female i guess.




    and oh
    "Gek really starts sausage"
    lol

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    To clarify, I have no problem with giving people all the space and time they need...as long as I know where we stand. I just hate the "not knowing" part. I think SLIs would view this as needing constant reassurance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    What's in every relationship?
    This dynamic:

    I think X need more interaction/confirmation than most types, and women typically need more than men. If it's natural for a X to be silent and withdrawn and need alone-time, and also natural for an X(Woman) to need feed-back and company,

    Edit:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    To clarify, I have no problem with giving people all the space and time they need...as long as I know where we stand. I just hate the "not knowing" part. I think SLIs would view this as needing constant reassurance.

    It's incredibly annoying when other couples do this. I don't like it either, so while I may not talk much, you will at least know where me and you stand. Basically i'm either with you or not.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I can't speak for all, but for me, yes and I think that drives most people crazy. If you don't have goals for the relationship and where it's headed, then what do you have? Not much. I dont know, I like to have things labeled and understood and know where it's going and what they expect out of me and what we are...if they don't provide those answers you're not going to get much out of me. But that's just me being a female i guess.
    What the situation was such that it made it impossible to know these things? In this case, it woulnd't be up to either person to be able to define anything in concrete terms. I would think the IEE would have a much easier time dealing with this, whereas I could see the SLI as being completely disappointed with the situation...which would cause him/her to withdraw, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    This dynamic:




    Edit:




    It's incredibly annoying when other couples do this. I don't like it either, so while I may not talk much, you will at least know where me and you stand. Basically i'm either with you or not.
    And how would you convey this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Nope. I'm most definitely female, and I absolutely don't need things to be labeled and understood too much. I actually don't relate to the feeling at all. But I find it very appealing....
    I know what you mean. I'm not big on labels either. But I do get the essence of what Jessica is saying...I think for me it translates into "knowing where we stand." I'm OK with the future being uncertain, but I do have a need for feedback (like you said earlier). This feedback doesn't have to be verbal for me, but rather through consistency in actions, I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I totally agree. Give me and I'll be fine.

    Tell me you love me and then go for solitude, and I'll feel lonely and left...

    YES! How about saying negative things and acting disinterested and annoyed and expecting you to somehow still know his feelings haven't changed? This is what I mean by inconsistency in actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    I know what you mean. I'm not big on labels either. But I do get the essence of what Jessica is saying...I think for me it translates into "knowing where we stand."
    That's all I really want. I'm at the point now where i'm just sick of being in relationships where the other doesn't make it known what their intentions are. I guess I can't complain because I never reveal these things myself so it's not really fair. If they don't, that's when I withdraw and leave it all up to them. It's a bit harsh but that's how it is for me. If you don't come out and say "WE'RE DATING, I LIKE YOU", i tend to start assuming we're just on the friendship level and things go south very fast. I don't pick up on hints very easily.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    That's all I really want. I'm at the point now where i'm just sick of being in relationships where the other doesn't make it known what their intentions are. I guess I can't complain because I never reveal these things myself so it's not really fair. If they don't, that's when I withdraw and leave it all up to them. It's a bit harsh but that's how it is for me. If you don't come out and say "WE'RE DATING, I LIKE YOU", i tend to start assuming we're just on the friendship level and things go south very fast. I don't pick up on hints very easily.
    This is good to hear...that at least some SLIs do want this. My experience has been my making my intentions very clear and the other person resenting my need to know the same...or rather, expecting me to "just know"...which I would have no problem doing if there was consistency in actions (if this makes any sense).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    It's like a jail. You don't really know what to believe, so you can't move in any direction, not deeper in nor out of the relationship. Very frustrating.
    Exactly! This feeling of uncertainty is the worst. If you could just act in accordance to how you feel/what you want, I would know and could then know in which direction to go. I assume this could only be achieved with someone that, like I said before, knows what they want...so maybe this has been the cause of the problem I've observed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I think you'll have to learn how to express what you want. If not, I think you'll never have what you want, as you can't really expect anyone to do more than to take the first step..... I don't mean this in a bad way, I just think this is more about being too afraid of disappointment than about personality type. You have to dare to win. At least I wouldn't count on luck trowing an over-talkative over-expressive guy your way. You seem super-strong, so how can you doubt yourself in this matter?
    It's very hard for me to be open about what I want. When I do make it known, i make it known and I think it intimidates and scares the other person involved. If pushed to the max, I can be extremely blunt about it and things are never really the same after that. I'm not going to lie, being in a relationship with me has got to be extremely difficult. I could never date myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Or it could also be a natural insecurity or fear of loosing the partner or even a personality/function thing.
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    It's very hard for me to be open about what I want. When I do make it known, i make it known and I think it intimidates and scares the other person involved. If pushed to the max, I can be extremely blunt about it and things are never really the same after that. I'm not going to lie, being in a relationship with me has got to be extremely difficult. I could never date myself.
    I would actually appreciate this in a partner. So, maybe you just haven't found someone that values this about you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    hehehe... You're sweet about it at least.

    I'd fall for what you just said if I were a man, so maybe that's a way to go about it as well? To just be blunt and say that you know it. At least it's effective...
    The thing is, I'll be dating someone for a few months and keep things cool and relaxed and keeping up the front of "not caring" and then one day just get super pissed and and frustrated and let it all out and they are completely taken aback and shocked and it makes things awkward from then on out. That's really not a good way to deal with things and I've realized it's never good to keep things bottled in until they explode like that but I'm a master at it. If i were blunt from the get-go I don't think it'd be a problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Yes.


    I would actually appreciate this in a partner. So, maybe you just haven't found someone that values this about you.
    I did meet someone who appreciated it. Things didn't work but it thoroughly amused him to watch me fly off the handle from time to time and lay it all out on the table because hey, i finally showed some sort of emotion. Those are really the only times and the only ways I can ever be completely 100% honest with someone about how i feel for them. Piss me off and there you have it, the truth. It was very comical for him, ha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    And how would you convey this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I totally agree. Give me and I'll be fine.

    Pretty much. I'd give it only to you.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    The thing is, I'll be dating someone for a few months and keep things cool and relaxed and keeping up the front of "not caring" and then one day just get super pissed and and frustrated and let it all out and they are completely taken aback and shocked and it makes things awkward from then on out. That's really not a good way to deal with things and I've realized it's never good to keep things bottled in until they explode like that but I'm a master at it. If i were blunt from the get-go I don't think it'd be a problem.
    I would think it would be best to have a good balance between being completely blunt from the beginning and completely bottling things in until they explode. I personally would not find it appealing if someone was blunt from the get-go either. I like the fact that not everything is so apparent with SLIs and think I'm usually pretty good at reading their actions (as long as I'm not getting super mixed signals). I think it is important that you feel comfortable with what you are sharing and how much you are giving. It would be unrealistic to expect to be completely blunt and "out there" with your feelings at first if this goes against your nature. I think it is more a matter of trusting yourself enough to not feel such a strong need to keep up "the front" at all times for fear of being vulnerable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    I would think it would be best to have a good balance between being completely blunt from the beginning and completely bottling things in until they explode. I personally would not find it appealing if someone was blunt from the get-go either. I like the fact that not everything is so apparent with SLIs and think I'm usually pretty good at reading their actions (as long as I'm not getting super mixed signals). I think it is important that you feel comfortable with what you are sharing and how much you are giving. It would be unrealistic to expect to be completely blunt and "out there" with your feelings at first if this goes against your nature. I think it is more a matter of trusting yourself enough to not feel such a strong need to keep up "the front" at all times for fear of being vulnerable.
    I'm surprised people even have the energy to keep playing these games.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Pretty much. I'd give it only to you.
    OK, that makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I did meet someone who appreciated it. Things didn't work but it thoroughly amused him to watch me fly off the handle from time to time and lay it all out on the table because hey, i finally showed some sort of emotion. Those are really the only times and the only ways I can ever be completely 100% honest with someone about how i feel for them. Piss me off and there you have it, the truth. It was very comical for him, ha.
    See, this is something that would bother me. I'd rather get this re-assurance in a calm, Si-like way the way LV mentioned. I can't deal with someone just flying off handle at me, especially if I'm depending on this as our only form of communication.
    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    I'm surprised people even have the energy to keep playing these games.
    Me too. It's like "you either want this or you don't. Make up your mind."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    You're all over the place, so "only to you" would be kind of hard to believe. :wink:
    I haven't given it to anyone here.

    It's just that Jessica and I are the types of people to have no faith in people. So we never naturally think that the other person actually likes us much.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    You're all over the place, so "only to you" would be kind of hard to believe. :wink:
    That's because he's an Ne slut. The man can't get enough of it.

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    Hey, why should I curve my natural caregiver tendencies?
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post

    It's just that Jessica and I are the types of people to have no faith in people. So we never naturally think that the other person actually likes us much.
    Yes, it's true

    I've calmed down a bit when it comes to flying off the handle as I realize it's crazy. I can't help when i get passionate about certain things. Actually, the more I think about it, he was the only one that has made me ever loose my cool. The only form of communication we had consisted of scream-fests. It was a very unhealthy relationship and I haven't done it since.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Hey, why should I curve my natural caregiver tendencies?
    Are you saying you have more than enough Si to go around?
    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Yes, it's true

    I've calmed down a bit when it comes to flying off the handle as I realize it's crazy. I can't help when i get passionate about certain things. Actually, the more I think about it, he was the only one that has made me ever loose my cool. The only form of communication we had consisted of scream-fests. It was a very unhealthy relationship and I haven't done it since.
    This is good Jessica. I would also consider a relationship where communication occured this way, as unhealthy and extremely draining. I wish people realized how much better we could understand one another if we just talked about things without resorting to screaming, losing your cool, personal attacks or being closed off to what the other person is saying. Good for you for realizing this!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I'm sure that's your explanation all the time.....



    People are SOOO nice. Most of them. The few others, you can just ignore them. No problem!

    And how many times do you two need us to answer your posts before you actually get that we like you??? Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssss.....You're acting like a woman asking her husband "do you reeeeeellly like me in that dresss....?" for the 152nd time... And they say IEEs are complicated!!!!
    haha, I'm not going to lie, I do need lots of reassurance. I'm trying to learn how to control that.

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    Hahahaha.

    I'd like to say for the record: Mimosa and Sirena like LokiV and Jessica!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I agree to most of this, but I also think that screaming means you really trust someone, and that makes me believe there might have been something good in that relationship as well. But preferably it should get calmer and calmer after a while, not continue like that....
    I agree that the fact you would get frustrated enough to scream could probably mean that you care enough about the person to do so, but ultimately we're talking about effective ways of communicating these feelings, not about the feelings themselves. There's not much point in a relationship where respect and consideration are lacking, even if you love each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I agree to most of this, but I also think that screaming means you really trust someone, and that makes me believe there might have been something good in that relationship as well. But preferably it should get calmer and calmer after a while, not continue like that....
    Yeah. He was really the only person I um...what's that L word again? lol. You get my drift. I think he realized what you just said here and that's why he appreciated it...no one since him has ever affected me that much and that in itself is a bit sad. It's unfortunate that things had to end but my gosh, we both couldn't take it anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Yeah. He was really the only person I um...what's that L word again? lol. You get my drift. I think he realized what you just said here and that's why he appreciated it...no one since him has ever affected me that much and that in itself is a bit sad. It's unfortunate that things had to end but my gosh, we both couldn't take it anymore.
    Wouldn't it be nice if we could find a way to have both? The feelings that come with the "L" word and a healthy way of communicating. Usually one of the two is missing for me.

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    I could see how someone that values Fe>Fi would appreciate the explosions as an expression of feelings, so I guess it is all subjective and about what each person values/does not value in the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I think that's partly why I left him.

    He always encouraged me to show "more" feelings, and I felt he wanted me to act "fake", and I couldn't. So when I finally stopped screaming at him, and things got calmer, he started to push me to "feel" more. You could say that when I finally felt strong and sane, he started to feel weak and unhealthy... It was not a perfect relationship.
    He didn't like the healthy you (the way you feel you are naturally at your best). I've had the same experience. You needed someone who valued and identified with your idea of emotional wellbeing. I wonder, was he explosive too?

  39. #39
    xyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    People are SOOO nice. Most of them. The few others, you can just ignore them. No problem!

    And how many times do you two need us to answer your posts before you actually get that we like you??? Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssss.....You're acting like a woman asking her husband "do you reeeeeellly like me in that dresss....?" for the 152nd time... And they say IEEs are complicated!!!!
    I don't know, I really doubt I'll be able to really trust anyone. I'll keep trying though.

    And yeah, you don't have to keep telling us

    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Hahahaha.

    I'd like to say for the record: Mimosa and Sirena like LokiV and Jessica!!!!
    Thanks
    (Btw Sirena, who is that in your avatar?)

    I'm learning quite a bit in this thread.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Haikus Sirena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    (Btw Sirena, who is that in your avatar?)
    Me?

    Nah, as usual, just some random girl I found online whose pictures I liked because they somewhat remind me of myself sometimes. Her name is Jennifer Kuhlman and from what I read she is an amateur actress or something.

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