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Thread: Inuition doesn't correlate to intelligence? Poppycock!

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    Default Inuition doesn't correlate to intelligence? Poppycock!

    What we have here is a complex, which has one facet of it being hastily applied to general topic of socionics as to enlargen the problem: one is the general definition of "intelligence" which I will not define strictly to the ability to comprehend abstract data; the second is the propounding of the notion that inuition, the ability to "comprehend abstract data", does not correlate with intelligence as it is commonly referred to.

    While it is true that it does not compose all that is needed to understand concepts generally referred to as "abstract" and "intellectual", inuition is major component in understanding such things. What confounds me is the fact that inuition is defined as the ability to percieve things "abstractly", which is the most common definition asserted when referring to intelligence; "the ability to reason and understand abstract concepts." It is true that certain functions give one the ability to comprehend whatever it is associated with if one has it so developed as it would occupy one position in one's "ego" block, as it emulates certain facets of the common definition of intelligence, however to disregard inuition as the primary tool in comprehending such things is foolhardy, and if you allow me to be so bold, a rather rash attempt to be "politically correct." How can you say such things without looking at the sheer facts? I say all this assuming that you believe in the informaton metabolism theory.

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    Have you typed yourself yet? You talk like an INTp!! only an INTp would say(among other things) "poppycock"!

    Could be wrong.

    Good thoughts though.

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    Indeed, I would say that I must agree with you on your line of thinking. It is indeed poppycock to say that intelligence does not correspond to intuition. As both sensing and intuition types have the ability to comprehend abstract concepts, only intuitives can use these concepts in a creative manner. Indeed, if one would take into account the situation of the thinking type and the feeling type, one would find that indeed both the feeling type and the thinking type have the capacity to comprehend emotional reasoning. Now place both of them in a situation where one must use emotion creatively. Indeed, you will find that the thinking type fails to produce the desired result every time, yet the feeling type passes it off with relative ease. So, intelligence does not correspond to intuition? Blasphemy indeed!

    Blast! I seem to have dropped my blueberry scone upon my trousers! Indeed, this is quite a travesty for mankind today...

    Your old English talking INTp friend,

    Cone
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    Intelligence tests rely onw hat is called the g factor, among other things. And the g factors has statistically been proven to correlate with genetics rather than a skill that can be developed. I have seen S types with very high IQ. My father, an ISFp has an IQ of 135. Clinton, an ESFj has an IQ of 180. This doesn't disprove a correlation, however the same types of problems can be solved not only temporally, but spatially. My dad was showing me a cool problem that involves spatial reasoning, (an Si thing), you had to solve for a 3D shape using two given angles, it was pretty hardcore. Intelligence deffinitly correlates with introversion though, because when you take an IQ test it is not verbal, but internal.
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    I'm not so certain that you can reduce abilities such as that to specific functions. I'm GREAT at visual spatial relationships, and no matter what my type, I have knowledge that Si is NOT part of my ego-block, so I don't see how that's possible.

    And I'd like to have the source of that score and have you explain yourself why you believe Clinton to be an ESFj.

    Intelligence does NOT correlate with introversion; studiousness however, might

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    I just rechecked the sources for clinton's IQ appearantly it turns out that the presidential IQ thing was a large scale hoax, so disregard that. As for spatial reasoning and other functions, the cognitive functions are related to these abilities. Introverted sensing allows one to memorize images of things, and allow sone to detect any differences is spatial relation of objects. Si people can easily tell if something doesn't look, taste, smell, sound, or feel like it should. The fact that this relats to other senses other than just visual doesnt affect the visual ability. Having logic of correlation allows you to figure out how things work, by tracing logical steps of a device functioning. Every function is a strength. Not everyone is equal though, an might be so smart that his is stronger than his friend's. As far as introversion and extraversion relating to IQ, I will try to find a source for this, and let me also explain my logic behind it..... When ever I and E people argue, I people always preffer to do it online, and E people preffer to do it in person. Why do you think that is? It is obvious that an E person is much more dominant when speaking his thoughs, but an I person is much more dominant when working alone internally. So if E is to: better at arguing in person, and I is to: better at arguing online, then what is E taking a test that requires pure reasoning, vs an I type taking a test that requires pure reasoning?
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    What do you mean by stronger? Do you forget that the information metabolism limits the functioning of one's second function to such an extent that it only behaves sporradically? If it can behave otherwise, then something if fundamentally wrong with the model-a!

    Also, I thought Se was more devoted to what you mentioned earlier: visual spatial ability; you know, the ability to "map out" one's enviornment in one's head, not Si.

    Also, we need to define what is "abstract" and determine whether the ability to understand abstract processes and symbolics sorts of things are solely the job of inuition.

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    Se can map out the external environment (alomst as if seeing through walls base don 3D memory), Si gives the ability to internally do imagery and 3D manipulations, and then project them into the visual canvas.
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    I can do just that, but I definately don't have Si in my ego-block. Shouldn't my ability to use visual-spatial abilities, then, not be as developed?

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    How do F people get through math class? They have some logic, they aren't totally illogical. Personality is a gradient. I have seen people totally ballanced in terms of ethics and logic (some of them after many trips on LSD, or mushrooms, i dont think this is good though because that shorten's life's journey, and you end up at the end waiting for the others to come). By the way, I'm not talking baout socionics here. I am talking about reality. Reality defines science, not the other way around.
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    Talk about reviving the dead.
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    There seems to be differences in the general intelligence profiles of the types. All of the real life ENTps I have met have had exceptional at visual spatial relationsships. My intelligence profile is different.

    (About MysticSonic's type, he is not an INTj, even though he thought so for a while. ENTp is one possibility, but if he thinks that he is some other type, maybe he could be right about that -- although not an INTj, and not any other rational type either. )

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    Blah, IQ tests can't measure everything. They have no ability to predict who will be a great artist, or a great acrobat, or a great chef, or practically anything else for that matter. I read somewhere that the vast majority of fighter pilots are ESTJ. And we know how utterly stupid and talentless those people are. Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences probably best defines aspects of intelligence, and IQ tests only measure two of the intelligences presented in his theory.
    Also, just because someone is a sensor, does this automatically mean that they have very poor intuition? I bet there are people who are better at using their inferior functions than people who have those functions as their dominant. I'm almost certain I'm an ISTx now, and all I see in the parent message is a bunch of self-congratulatory and unsubstantiated poppycock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Typeless Wonder
    Blah, IQ tests can't measure everything.
    True.

    Although they can measure something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slava
    Intelligence tests rely onw hat is called the g factor, among other things. And the g factors has statistically been proven to correlate with genetics rather than a skill that can be developed. I have seen S types with very high IQ. My father, an ISFp has an IQ of 135. Clinton, an ESFj has an IQ of 180. This doesn't disprove a correlation, however the same types of problems can be solved not only temporally, but spatially. My dad was showing me a cool problem that involves spatial reasoning, (an Si thing), you had to solve for a 3D shape using two given angles, it was pretty hardcore. Intelligence deffinitly correlates with introversion though, because when you take an IQ test it is not verbal, but internal.
    Slava, the IQ tests are designed to get a select range of people to places where they can get information and assistance on the (presumed) basis that they can improve on the creations of a person who in the past managed a significant technological advance. By way of the socion we can say that this is a flawed methodology: a person who has the same talents as Einstein will fare no better with today's data than Einstein did, because physics is tightly closed up against the lines of thought that would allow Einstein-like people to continue their work.

    Secondly, few people use IQ tests. They are only endorsed today by people who believe in the need for a intellectually meritocratic oversight of society.


    Wait a sec... I need to look at the dates of these posts more carefully. This post is... my god 2 years old!

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    Once I took an IQ test and made my dad to take it too. He (INTj) scored 131 and I (ENFp) scored 133.

    At the time I didn't gave it importance because I didn't even know about socionics. For a long time I tought of myself as an NT.

    Later I took the test and I got surprised that I wasn't logical but ethical (the intuitive part was easy to see). Then I started to notice that, indeed, my true strenghts are with people.

    Anyway, thing is, intelligence has nothing to do with type. Type only tell you what preference does the brain has over the functions. If you're in a "noisy enviroment", this is, with lots of information elements flying around, then you'll focus automatically into your strenghts. For this reason a Fe dominant person is lost in a situation which requieres intense use of Ti. Not because that person can't use Ti effectively (logicals like to perpetuate that myth), but because each time it is striked by a Fe information element, Ti gets shadowed.

    Those IQ tests really measure your ability to reason, but it's under controlled situations. They won't say anything about how are you going to perform in a real world scenario.

    Also, I do belive intelligence is linked directly to intuition. See this post.
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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana
    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    Anyway, thing is, intelligence has nothing to do with type.
    Also, I do belive intelligence is linked directly to intuition.
    One of these statements is true, the other is false. Take a wild guess which one is which.
    That is a classic example of PoLR, by the way (not picking on you, mikemex -- it is).
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Either I'm wrong or you failed to get the point. Every person possess intuition, type only determines how dominant it is within the psyche. However, like I said above, precedence of functions tells you nothing about the actual strength of each function, so a sensor type can actually have strong and functional intuition.

    Like I explained in the other post, I think intelligence is all about intuition because it's the only dynamic element inside the psyche. All other elements are static, like fixed routes that doesn't evolve.

    For example, imagine a super computer. It might be capable of more raw processing power compared to a brain, can process information with surgical accuracy, possess faultless logic. However, none of that makes it intelligent, because I see intelligence as the ability to adapt and a computer can't deviate even the slightest from its program. It's like an ISTj on steroids

    It's the ability to process two identical information elements and produce different results what makes intelligence. To build the proper "processing pipe" according to the situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex
    Either I'm wrong or you failed to get the point. Every person possess intuition, type only determines how dominant it is within the psyche. However, like I said above, precedence of functions tells you nothing about the actual strength of each function, so a sensor type can actually have strong and functional intuition.

    Like I explained in the other post, I think intelligence is all about intuition because it's the only dynamic element inside the psyche. All other elements are static, like fixed routes that doesn't evolve.

    For example, imagine a super computer. It might be capable of more raw processing power compared to a brain, can process information with surgical accuracy, possess faultless logic. However, none of that makes it intelligent, because I see intelligence as the ability to adapt and a computer can't deviate even the slightest from its program. It's like an ISTj on steroids

    It's the ability to process two identical information elements and produce different results what makes intelligence. To build the proper "processing pipe" according to the situation.
    There might some truth in this. Especially when put like you did there. Hard to prove it though. And I tend to think intelligence (as measured in IQ tests) is related to Ne (more so than to Ni). I might be wrong in this but somehow it seems many IQ test questions require strong Ne to be solved quickly.

    However if you claim every type can have high intuition even when their preference for its usage is not high then comparing ISTjs to non-intuitive supercomputers does seem contradictory, flawed and subjective. If you are right then many of them could have stronger Ne than you do (and you have stronger Ti than they have).

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    For the record, the smartest person I know is an ISTj.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    For the record, the smartest person I know is an ISTj.
    Many of us think highly of our parents. When you get older though they don't seem such super people anymore and you start to notice their faults too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    For the record, the smartest person I know is an ISTj.
    Many of us think highly of our parents. When you get older though they don't seem such super people anymore and you start to notice their faults too.
    O_O WTFFF

    It's not my father at all my father isn't particularly smart. It's another person from university. How can you jump to conclusions this way?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    For the record, the smartest person I know is an ISTj.
    Many of us think highly of our parents. When you get older though they don't seem such super people anymore and you start to notice their faults too.
    O_O WTFFF

    It's not my father at all my father isn't particularly smart. It's another person from university.
    It was a sort of joke Not that I mean your father is not intelligent (I wouldn't know anything about that).

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    Let's try to not bring up dumbass topics I made when I was 15, k?
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    For the record, the smartest person I know is an ISTj.
    Many of us think highly of our parents. When you get older though they don't seem such super people anymore and you start to notice their faults too.
    huh? it seems to me that my family is totally braindead. i consider myself the most intelligent person in my immediate family, and probably the most intelligent of my extended family, with the exception of a professor of linguistics or something to do with languages at the university of indiana who is my second cousin or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    i consider myself the most intelligent person in my immediate family, and probably the most intelligent of my extended family
    Lol, I am much the same way. We're not doing much to counter-act the know-it-all teenager stereotype, are we?

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    For the record, the smartest person I know is an ISTj.
    Many of us think highly of our parents. When you get older though they don't seem such super people anymore and you start to notice their faults too.
    huh? it seems to me that my family is totally braindead. i consider myself the most intelligent person in my immediate family, and probably the most intelligent of my extended family, with the exception of a professor of linguistics or something to do with languages at the university of indiana who is my second cousin or something.
    almost same here, except my mother apparently scores around 150 in every test i have given her, in spite of not being interested in anything remotely intellectual (not that it's a fault)
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    lol poppycock

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    Quote Originally Posted by loudlurker
    And you guys saying your relatives aren't too sharp..do you know this objectively or is it just what you gather from their interests and opinions and things like that?
    I didn't say they were dumb - it was more a comment on my own brilliance. Intelligence runs in the family.

    Interests, opinions? I suppose my family's lack of professional interest in intellectual things may have affected my perception. I know how smart they are mostly by what they say in conversation, and a few standardized tests for my immediate family.

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    I think N probably does go with intelligence, but you do have to consider that every problem can be solved and thought about in several different ways, so that what seems very abstract can be looked at and solved in a more practical or 'real world' way, perhaps thinking in pictures to a greater degree or something.

    I had to do a few IQ tests for jobs before, it was funny coz I used to get really good on the spatial, memory and patten recignition ones (with my Si ), but I used to take a while to figure out the wordy and language ones.
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    I've read 4 sites on the net that had some (questionable) results on it. All of them concluded that having Intuition will HIGHLY probably get you a better IQ score.

    if i remember correctly these were the results of highes IQ scores

    site 1:
    INTJ

    site 2:
    INTP

    site 3:
    ENTP
    ENFP
    INTP
    INFP

    site 4:
    INTJ
    INTP
    INFJ
    INFP

    as you see, they don't agree on the ranks, but they certainly agreed on Intuition.

    Although i've read a mensa article in which people could test their type and sent it in.
    the INTP's and ISTJ's (!) were the majority of members.

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    Not surprisingly, two studies on MBTI found intuition to be the greatest predictor of general intelligence out of the MBTI dimensions, followed by introversion, “Furthermore, Intuition itself was found to have the highest correlation among the eight MBTI dimensions and the two intelligence measures, as well as g. The sign of the coefficient was positive, indicating that more Intuitive types score higher on intelligence measures” (Moutafi et al.).

    Anyone who is interested should take a look at “The relationship of the Myers–Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) to IQ level and the fluid and crystallized IQ discrepancy on the Kaufman Adolescent and Adult Intelligence Test (KAIT),” and “Demographic and Personality Predictors of Intelligence: A Study Using the Neo Personality Inventory and the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by CNothing
    Not surprisingly, two studies on MBTI found intuition to be the greatest predictor of general intelligence out of the MBTI dimensions, followed by introversion, “Furthermore, Intuition itself was found to have the highest correlation among the eight MBTI dimensions and the two intelligence measures, as well as g. The sign of the coefficient was positive, indicating that more Intuitive types score higher on intelligence measures” (Moutafi et al.).

    Anyone who is interested should take a look at “The relationship of the Myers–Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI) to IQ level and the fluid and crystallized IQ discrepancy on the Kaufman Adolescent and Adult Intelligence Test (KAIT),” and “Demographic and Personality Predictors of Intelligence: A Study Using the Neo Personality Inventory and the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator.”
    Well it almost seems like MBTI defines N = intelligence. And INT = scientist and so on. I would like to see that done with socionics type definitions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    Although i've read a mensa article in which people could test their type and sent it in.
    the INTP's and ISTJ's (!) were the majority of members.
    My ISTj mother signed us both up for Mensa. It's like a status symbol or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Well it almost seems like MBTI defines N = intelligence. And INT = scientist and so on. I would like to see that done with socionics type definitions.
    From the look of things, you're going to be waiting a long, long time...

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    Quote Originally Posted by CNothing
    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    Well it almost seems like MBTI defines N = intelligence. And INT = scientist and so on. I would like to see that done with socionics type definitions.
    From the look of things, you're going to be waiting a long, long time...
    I have patience

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