Why Ti is more important than Te: organization vs chaos

[Ezra]

My perspective. Some of you may disagree.

I think the thing that stands out about Ti is organisation. This is lacking in Te types. There's no rigidity; no consistency or principle nature in those weak in Ti, and they couldn't care less, because they have their Fi system instead. Personally, I think this is useless when standing it up against Ti. So, why is Ti so important to me? Because I am far more concerned with organising what I think about something - anything - in the world than I am with throwing (or receiving) a myriad of facts or a shitheap of information at someone's (or my) brain and having the desire for them to digest it. Being able to know exactly what I think about a certain thing when it is brought into question, and being able to precisely relay this to an individual, is very important to me. It's an internal chemistry I'm talking about; it's about my organising what I think about something internally so that I can use it in the external world through my Se. To exchange my Se with Te would be a death wish; I am who I am because I know exactly how to utilise my strengths and put on the backbench my less useful strengths (Te and Si). It's not that I think Te is utterly pointless or useless (indeed, it has its uses, which is why I do use it from time to time); it's that Se is far more useful and, what's more, when it's combined with Ti, it's unbeatable.

[Park]

You are full of horseshit - if you call that Ti.

[xyz]

My perspective. Some of you may disagree.

I think the thing that stands out about Ti is organisation. This is lacking in Te types. There's no rigidity; ...

Well that's all the reason I need to keep my Te

[Blaze]

*cough*

[xyz]

Yes?

[Blaze]

Yes?

lol

[strrrng]

the thing is, Te has structure to it; it's just not about inherent structure. Te looks at effects and connects them in a sort of causal chain, which is objectively accurate, but doesn't say anything about the inherent principle. This, I agree, is why Ti is important: it brings a conceptual order to chaos.

but I still don't think you're beta, Ezra...lol

[FDG]

Having an answer to everything is meaningless, if the given answer is not factually accurate and up-to-date.

[Elro]

Having an answer to everything is meaningless, if the given answer is not factually accurate and up-to-date.

While I agree with this, there are situations where constant checking of things is also pointless - for instance, 2+2=4 is a mathematical fact that probably doesn't change over time, so (although I guess every now and then it should be checked just to make sure something screwy isn't going on, even though I can't imagine why it would change), it would be a waste of time to keep affirming that over and over, when there are other, better things that one could do with that time (e.g., knit ). This example probably seems overly simple but it applies to more advanced things - for instance: if A then B. A, therefore B. Aside from a few weird exceptions (which also do not change, and I believe all involve contradictions in the premises and don't even cause a problem in the logic I'm talking about), this statement will hold for any A and B. Would you want to verify every iteration of that manually?

Pretty much "relations of ideas" are the areas that we can be reasonably certain of not changing once we understand them. Geometry, mathematics. Logic. Definitions. It's where they interface with the world that we need to keep checking; for instance, F=ma is a static relation, but we can't be sure that F, m, and a in the real world will always relate to each other in that fashion. That's where Te comes in. So, obviously, both are useful. I think Ti is handy just so far as making life simpler. It's not always accurate, though, obviously. Especially when used poorly.

[FDG]

That's why my sentence contains "everything" and "if".

[Logos]

Having an answer to everything is meaningless, if the given answer is not factually accurate and up-to-date.

Just exactly how slow do you think that Ti-Dominants update their information?

[FDG]

Just exactly how slow do you think that Ti-Dominants update their information?

Pretty quickly, I think; perhaps not as quickly as extraverted types - however that can be a strenght.

My response, of course, has to be considered given the context of the thread "why Ti is more imporant than Te" - so exclusively as a defence of Te.

[redbaron]

2+2=4 is a mathematical fact that probably doesn't change over time.

[Logos]

Pretty quickly, I think; perhaps not as quickly as extraverted types - however that can be a strenght.

My response, of course, has to be considered given the context of the thread "why Ti is more imporant than Te" - so exclusively as a defence of Te.

Naturally, and perfectly reasonable.

[Phaedrus]

You are full of horseshit - if you call that Ti.

I agree.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

One cannot exist without the other. Where would Te be without the things Ti produces. What would Ti do if it's creations were not realised! I like Ti and I like Te. It is like beautiful parents making the beautiful child. Together their creations are great! Yeah it's all about peace love and hairgrease man! And lol at me for staying in on a Friday evening! Yeah lets see what's on the box tonight haha

[Sirena]

Why is it that every time I see an explanation from a Ti dominant I can't seem to be able to make myself read all the way through?!

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Why is it that every time I see an explanation from a Ti dominant I can't seem to be able to make myself read all the way through?!

Oh yeah good point haha maybe that's because Te is better after all lol (j/k, of course )

[Sirena]

Oh yeah good point haha maybe that's because Te is better after all lol (j/k, of course )

It is!

[Warlord]

for instance, 2+2=4 is a mathematical fact that probably doesn't change over time

In ternary number system 2+2=11.

[Warlord]

obviously he meant decimal system. the point is on a higher level.

No shit?

[Elro]

In ternary number system 2+2=11.

...which changes over time?

I'm not talking about different ways of expressing the same thing, but whether or not the actual fact changes and needs to be noted with Te. (That's what I understand Te to be, anyway.)

[Sirena]

because you have ADD (kidding)? i have that sometimes with some posts, like i'm not interested and it's be so boring, as well as my mind keeps wandering off as i read and all.

Haha. Maybe. But I am pretty good at focusing on things that I am interested in. My mind does tend to wander off in different directions a lot though. But for some reason when things are explained in a Ti way, I have a hard time grasping them, although I've noticed it's not quite so bad coming from Ti creatives, especially ENTps since they put the Ne spin on it. With Ti dominants though, I find myself stopping after the first couple of sentences. I have to actually force myself to read through it if there is important information that I want to extract from what is being said...but it takes effort and it is not enjoyable. I can spot a Ti post right away, without even knowing the person's type at first. Anyway, I'd been noticing this lately, so I thought I would mention it.

[Logos]

Why is it that every time I see an explanation from a Ti dominant I can't seem to be able to make myself read all the way through?!

I don't know. Why can't you?

[Park]

I don't know. Why can't you?

Maybe because she doesn't know what (and who) a Ti dominant is, she probably thinks Ezra is one. And the ENTp that "puts the Ne spin on it" is probably Sunshine Lively with whom she's had a few pleasant conversations just recently which of course is more than enough to say that she get's Ti creatives better, especially ENTps.

[Warlord]

...which changes over time?

I'm not talking about different ways of expressing the same thing, but whether or not the actual fact changes and needs to be noted with Te. (That's what I understand Te to be, anyway.)

If the number system changes over time then yes.

I know what you are talking about, I was just joking.

[Park]

I know what you are talking about, I was just joking.

LOL

[Satan]

i think Ti is, the dynamic or static connection between objects or parameters, own, "imagined" or come-up with (Ne is static and so T is static too being blocked with a static fn) facts for a certain aim, e.g. lawsuit factual manipulation in creating a speech. when people later say oh, this and this was said in the court, it's Te, 'cos it's just conveying what everyone knows, Te is like that imo, it's about a common information pool, where as Ti is a product of a a mind and the focus is on understanding a fact, not just grasping it whole, on kind of seeing how it's existence connects to existence of other things, the reasons for it's appearance perhaps. also, Ti imo can be like a channel for Te, kind of a system that guides what can or cannot be done, like a limit setter on this dynamic energy flow in reality - actions, movements.

These descrptions easily get too complicated for normal people to understand.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Ezra, buddy? I like you and all but I think you pulled that idea right out of your ass. Couldn't follow any of it.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

And yes people need to explain the functions much, much better- and sticky it already, and also generally define what a function IS exactly in the first place, or link to me where I can find it because all those mental masturbatory posts help nobody at all. Concrete examples or isn't this a sound science OR theory just a peter pan fairytale.

[Ezra]

Funny responses. I expected them all to be good, even from Ti devaluers, who would - I hoped - say something like "yes, this is exactly why I do not care about Te". I certainly wasn't expecting anyone to call it bullshit. Why is it bullshit?

the thing is, Te has structure to it; it's just not about inherent structure. Te looks at effects and connects them in a sort of causal chain, which is objectively accurate, but doesn't say anything about the inherent principle.

This sounds more to me like how a Gamma NT would think than a Delta ST would.

This, I agree, is why Ti is important: it brings a conceptual order to chaos.

Yes.

but I still don't think you're beta, Ezra...lol

One day, Nick, one day.

Having an answer to everything is meaningless, if the given answer is not factually accurate and up-to-date.

Yep, you're right, and that sentence alone practically steers you in the direction of Gamma. It's Te, but it doesn't really answer this topic.

I don't know. Why can't you?

lolalicious

Maybe because she doesn't know what (and who) a Ti dominant is, she probably thinks Ezra is one. And the ENTp that "puts the Ne spin on it" is probably Sunshine Lively with whom she's had a few pleasant conversations just recently which of course is more than enough to say that she get's Ti creatives better, especially ENTps.

When you say "dominant" what do you mean?

In fact, what do you mean qbsirena when you talk about Ti dominant?

In MBTI, "dominant" is your leading function. In socionics, when I say "dominant" - and I rarely do, because it's MBTI-infused and confusing - I mean that it's an ego function. So if I am Ti dominant, I could be LII, SLE, LSI or ILE.

[FDG]

Anyway, I was obviously not speaking in objective terms when I said that.

I think the two functions have simply different uses in different social contexts, Ti is definitely more important than Te when there is the need for a societal reform from the root upwards, for example. Te is more important than Ti when a social structure is already existant and working, and has to be improved in efficiency and kept in good status.

[Sirena]

In fact, what do you mean qbsirena when you talk about Ti dominant?

In MBTI, "dominant" is your leading function. In socionics, when I say "dominant" - and I rarely do, because it's MBTI-infused and confusing - I mean that it's an ego function. So if I am Ti dominant, I could be LII, SLE, LSI or ILE.

By dominant I meant "leading". And no, I wasn't including you in my explanation of "Ti dominants" since you are Ti creative, if in fact you are SLE.

[Logos]

By dominant I meant "leading". And no, I wasn't including you in my explanation of "Ti dominants" since you are Ti creative, if in fact you are SLE.

So you have difficulties reading the descriptions of only two types?

[Sirena]

So you have difficulties reading the descriptions of only two types?

All I was saying was that in general I have noticed that I have difficulty understanding and appreciating the way Ti leading types explain things. This is also the case for Ti creatives, although not to the extent as the former. I was also making the point that I have found that ENTps tend to be the exception because I can identify with them on an Ne level. And I was not referring only to the posters in this thread...just a general observation.

[xyz]

Personally I tend to agree with Sirena, although if it makes sense I'll continue reading a Ti filled post. If not, I stop rather quickly. It's a necessary evil.

[Logos]

I hope you are not confusing Ti posts with needlessly dense posts.

[Sirena]

I hope you are not confusing Ti posts with needlessly dense posts.

I'm not. I see needlessly dense posts from all 4 quadras. This is not what I'm referring to. I am simply saying that I can't connect with explanations written in a Ti format.

[Sirena]

yeah. and with Beta STs... the general trend with their posts is like the opposite of that, I thought.

Again, it has nothing to do with the density of the posts...just the structure, it doesn't appeal to me...that's all.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Well, in the interest of the discussion and views, perhaps this may be of note or use?

Ti it seems, provides a structural explanation perhaps. Then I sometimes wonder if that in it's own is hypothetical, because is Ti a tested phenomena?

Ti in it's sense leaves questions as well as answers, to the observation I believe of others. This can be said to be viewed within type and type preference of course