Joy

[Ezra]

Recently, her type has come into question. niffweed made a case for LSI. I've been reconsidering LIE. What type do you think Joy is and, more importantly, why?

Personally, I say Gamma extrovert. I don't have a good reason for it, except that she's extroverted and most likely Gamma.

[Gilly]

Hmmm...my impression has always been some Se valuing type. LIE isn't bad, because sometimes I end up accusing her of a kind of pretense that I see in my mother, LSE, that isn't really there; it's just, umm...perhaps a focus on communicating things in a way that is most likely to be understood instead of how they actually feel. I'm guilty of this too, and rather often, but when I see it it pisses me off for some reason. I guess I feel like other people don't do it well or something. Maybe I am just projecting but in any case, it's a similarity that I notice between my mother and Joy, and I don't think there's any way joy is LSE. Most things about LIE make sense, although some things make me think Beta now and again.

[BLauritson]

I don't see any reason why she couldn't be LIE. Granted I don't know her well enough to have an overly informed typing, but that which I do know of her seems to point in favour of it.

[Wittmont]

I don't really know Joy that well, but i definitely see her as Gamma, if not LIE then ESI. An ESI girl I know uses the concept of "loyalty" the same (very Gamma) way Joy does.

[machintruc]

Recently, her type has come into question. niffweed made a case for LSI.

Everyone in the forum accuses each other of being LSI, kinda like LSI was evil... What a shitload of fuck

[Joy]

Well there are certainly types that are less likely than LSI.

Honestly, at this point I don't think truly matters what my Socionics (or Enneagram) type is.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Joy seems to lack that warmth and connectiveness that I like in other people. Uh not that I need people to rub up on me 24/7 saying how much they love me, but there is a certain kind of 'distance from humanity' (best I can put it) in her posts that bugs me. Expat is the same way.

I honestly feel like insulting her sometimes (I just did, didn't I?), but I reel myself in because lol well I definitely need to try and show more tact to people and learn to get along with people better in a business-savvy sense. I'm an intimate kinda guy so that's hard. Being 100% honest all the time never works, I really should take some sort of social skills training course lol.

[Ezra]

Everyone in the forum accuses each other of being LSI, kinda like LSI was evil... What a shitload of fuck

I think LSI is cool. Expat said people think LSIs are not cool. I think they own. Saddam Hussein, for example. What a legend. Rommel. Another legend. They're cool because they know how to act. Even Stalin wasn't that bad. Bush is a twat. ****** is a twat. Kim Jong-Il is a twat. Thing in common? They're not LSIs.

Well there are certainly types that are less likely than LSI.

Honestly, at this point I don't think truly matters what my Socionics (or Enneagram) type is.

Yeah, I mean you're pretty healthy, you're in love with a cool guy, you have a good job. No need for these pitiful systems on which other losers rely.

[Joy]

I think LSI is cool. Expat said people think LSIs are not cool. I think they own. Saddam Hussein, for example. What a legend. Rommel. Another legend. They're cool because they know how to act. Even Stalin wasn't that bad. Bush is a twat. ****** is a twat. Kim Jong-Il is a twat. Thing in common? They're not LSIs.

lol... the "is he a cool evil dictator/warlord" test

Yeah, I mean you're pretty healthy, you're in love with a cool guy, you have a good job. No need for these pitiful systems on which other losers rely.

Well, it is a fun theory. I think it's too easy to get too into it and care too much about your and other people's types though. Certainly not everyone here falls into that boat, but I think a lot of people do. I was probably one of the worst for a couple years. I'm getting away from identifying myself as a type though.

It's like I said in the overall condition topic: I think the negative effect Socionics has on one's life is directly related to the extent which they identify themselves and others as types. One who thinks "this is the way my mind works on a certain level, but it is not who I ultimately am" won't be as negatively effected as those who very strongly identify who they ultimately are with a type/quadra/dichotomy/whatever.

So yeah, at this point people are free to throw around different type suggestions for me and I won't feel the need to "defend my type". This is mostly a good thing imo, but it may make the discussion less interesting.

I'd probably be willing to answer some direct questions though, the kind Expat has used in his "type tests".

[machintruc]

Rommel. Another legend.

Rommel is 0+- LII.

[JuJu]

Well, it is a fun theory. I think it's too easy to get too into it and care too much about your and other people's types though. Certainly not everyone here falls into that boat, but I think a lot of people do. I was probably one of the worst for a couple years. I'm getting away from identifying myself as a type though.

It's like I said in the overall condition topic: I think the negative effect Socionics has on one's life is directly related to the extent which they identify themselves and others as types. One who thinks "this is the way my mind works on a certain level, but it is not who I ultimately am" won't be as negatively effected as those who very strongly identify who they ultimately are with a type/quadra/dichotomy/whatever.

This is very well-said...

Joy seems to lack that warmth and connectiveness that I like in other people. Uh not that I need people to rub up on me 24/7 saying how much they love me, but there is a certain kind of 'distance from humanity' (best I can put it) in her posts that bugs me. Expat is the same way.

I honestly feel like insulting her sometimes (I just did, didn't I?), but I reel myself in because lol well I definitely need to try and show more tact to people and learn to get along with people better in a business-savvy sense. I'm an intimate kinda guy so that's hard. Being 100% honest all the time never works, I really should take some sort of social skills training course lol.

I feel almost the exact opposite of this when interacting with Joy... The exact opposite. And here may be a good example of Fe (INFp) vs. Fi (ENFp) valuing. (Unless there is a different way to explain this in Socionics terms... Can anyone think of one?)

I agree with you that Joy's posts aren't dripping w/ emo, but to me that is refreshing... Her ideas--the kind that she comes up with for new threads, for example--almost always get my mind working, and if I was to speak my mind about that to her, (which I almost never do, lol,) I would generally say something like "wow, you're pretty amazing at this... I feel respect and admiration."

Anyway, to use your word, "connectiveness"--to me, it's there... I feel the same way about Expat too... Expat's posts get me thinking in the same way... In both cases, the feeling I have is of respect/admiration.

[Joy]

muchas gracias

[Expat]

What some people call "distance from humanity", I call "distance from idiocy".

[UDP]

Recently, her type has come into question.

No, it hasn't.
There is no Socionics Court which has decided that Joy's Type has Officially Come Into Question (see enclosed documents, exhibits A-F53).

Do you mean to say "I have recently been thinking about Joy's type, and so too has niffweed"?

[UDP]

What some people call "distance from humanity", I call "distance from idiocy".

That should go in the LIE domain

[UDP]

yeah. that and, it seems most of the time when somebody gets typed as LSI around here (whether it's a forum member or celebrity or whatever), it's always for negative reasons. it's like nobody pays attention to the positive qualities of LSIs sometimes.

Both dominants seem to get that. They, and INFp, seem to be the "wow this person is a loser, let's belittle them by calling them ____" types.

LII if you sort of just talk to yourself about things
LSI if you actually show anger on the forum in defending your ideas
IEI if you look emotional or just can't argue about anything

[Gilly]

No, it hasn't.
There is no Socionics Court which has decided that Joy's Type has Officially Come Into Question (see enclosed documents, exhibits A-F53).

Do you mean to say "I have recently been thinking about Joy's type, and so too has niffweed"?

Do you know the word "semantics," Jesse? Christ, why are you so fucking petty?

[Gilly]

What some people call "distance from humanity", I call "distance from idiocy".

[UDP]

Do you know the word "semantics," Jesse? Christ, why are you so fucking petty?

George, you're so smart.

I'm so glad you are my dual, George.


If you would stop pissing yourself for one minute and realize what's I'm saying, instead of taking any opportunity you get to "get emotional", maybe you'd see that this is a reoccurring thing that Ezra does that I was commenting on. But obviously you're upset again. Jeez, you're looking for anything you can say at this time.

Here's a suggestion - go mediate and chill out, so that way you can show me how petty I am without breaking a nail.

[Gilly]

George, you're so smart.

I'm so glad you are my dual, George.

Aren't you?

[UDP]

No. (I added more now)

[UDP]

I'm trying to communicate with him so he understands.

It's not working, is it.

[Gilly]

If you would stop pissing yourself for one minute and realize what's I'm saying, instead of taking any opportunity you get to "get emotional", maybe you'd see that this is a reoccurring thing that Ezra does that I was commenting on. But obviously you're upset again. Jeez, you're looking for anything you can say at this time.

Here's a suggestion - go mediate and chill out, so that way you can show me how petty I am without breaking a nail.

It took you extra time to think up this rubbish? You need to stop trying so hard at being mean; it doesn't suit you.

[Ezra]

Rommel is 0+- LII.

machintruc, face it: you're an LSI who wants other LSIs and ENTJs in MBTT to be like you (and they probably are), thus you type them as LII. Rommel would've have go to where he was, and wouldn't have achieved the victories he did if he was an LII.

I feel almost the exact opposite of this when interacting with Joy... The exact opposite. And here may be a good example of Fe (INFp) vs. Fi (ENFp) valuing. (Unless there is a different way to explain this in Socionics terms... Can anyone think of one?)

I agree with you that Joy's posts aren't dripping w/ emo, but to me that is refreshing... Her ideas--the kind that she comes up with for new threads, for example--almost always get my mind working, and if I was to speak my mind about that to her, (which I almost never do, lol,) I would generally say something like "wow, you're pretty amazing at this... I feel respect and admiration."

Anyway, to use your word, "connectiveness"--to me, it's there... I feel the same way about Expat too... Expat's posts get me thinking in the same way... In both cases, the feeling I have is of respect/admiration.

This is probably the difference between your Fi and glam's and B&D's Fe. Notice how you've mentioned nothing of "warmth" here, but rather how you connect to them; a very Fi sentiment.

George, you're so smart.

I'm so glad you are my dual, George.


If you would stop pissing yourself for one minute and realize what's I'm saying, instead of taking any opportunity you get to "get emotional", maybe you'd see that this is a reoccurring thing that Ezra does that I was commenting on. But obviously you're upset again. Jeez, you're looking for anything you can say at this time.

Here's a suggestion - go mediate and chill out, so that way you can show me how petty I am without breaking a nail.

I am almost crying with delight.

It took you extra time to think up this rubbish? You need to stop trying so hard at being mean; it doesn't suit you.

Yeah, Jesse, stop trying to act tough; it's laughable. You remind me of one of those angry little men who shout and scream because they want to be heard and think people care.

[Joy]

Does it matter who's questioning it?

[Gilly]

Seriously...

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Hmm Ezra. You've seem to have matured. I want the old Ezra back just not quite *as* kooky!

I just thought of something hilarious, what if Juju and I were conflictors? We're obviously not (though I doubt we're even in the same quadra) but wouldn't it be funny if the two openly gay guys were conflictors? Haha ... I just had to say that.

[Joy]

There was only one openly gay poster here that came to mind... and it wasn't JuJu.

[leckysupport]

There was only one openly gay poster here that came to mind... and it wasn't JuJu.

lol.

And I'm moving from EIE to LIE with joy.

[Joy]

Sorry, I meant "only one other only gay poster". But now that I think about it, I'm not sure if he's come right out and said that he's gay or not. Never mind.

[Ezra]

And I'm moving from EIE to LIE with joy.

Your support for that claim is terribly impressive.

[Joy]

Who is leckysupport?

[Ezra]

Who is leckysupport?

I know yeah hahaha.

[leckysupport]

electric, name change.

[Ezra]

Why in god's fucking name did you change from "electric" (a cool forum name) to "leckysupport"?

[leckysupport]

Why in god's fucking name did you change from "electric" (a cool forum name) to "leckysupport"?

More obscure and more difficult to copy or to be similar to by accident.

[JuJu]

Sorry, I meant "only one other only gay poster". But now that I think about it, I'm not sure if he's come right out and said that he's gay or not. Never mind.

fwiw, I don't like to make a big deal about this kinda stuff, but i don't wanna be misunderstood by ppl, ya know? so i'll clarify... It's come up in PMs w/ various ppl too...

i don't consider myself "gay." e.g. non-gay stuff has constituted most of my experience... recently, i got into a relationship w/ a guy though--and trust me, i'm learning a lot, lol... i guess, for me, it's more about the other person's qualities, guy or girl... This is a recent development, i.e. in hs, I was not open-minded to this kind of thing.

i don't wanna put a label on myself, and i really don't want one put on me... i hate talking about this stuff, lol, it makes me feel exposed and like i might be creating differences w/ ppl who don't like it in principle, so I guess I'll stop... this is not to be confused with "i am ashamed," b/c i am not. at all.

This thread is about Joy--and yeah, I'm more comfortable talking about that as a topic... I like and respect her a ton. I agree that she's LIE... It's become more obvious to me over time... I really respect how she continues to improve herself and expand her horizons, how she's open to many different ideas... There aren't a lot of ppl like that, in my experience. She is very intelligent... DiscoJoe is lucky.

I just thought of something hilarious, what if Juju and I were conflictors? We're obviously not (though I doubt we're even in the same quadra) but wouldn't it be funny if the two openly gay guys were conflictors? Haha ... I just had to say that.

yeah man, I doubt that you're ISTj. lol.

[Joy]

fwiw, I don't like to make a big deal about this kinda stuff, but i don't wanna be misunderstood by ppl, ya know? so i'll clarify... It's come up in PMs w/ various ppl too...

i don't consider myself "gay." e.g. non-gay stuff has constituted most of my experience... recently, i got into a relationship w/ a guy though--and trust me, i'm learning a lot, lol... i guess, for me, it's more about the other person's qualities, guy or girl... This is a recent development, i.e. in hs, I was not open-minded to this kind of thing.

i don't wanna put a label on myself, and i really don't want one put on me... i hate talking about this stuff, lol, it makes me feel exposed and like i might be creating differences w/ ppl who don't like it in principle, so I guess I'll stop... this is not to be confused with "i am ashamed," b/c i am not. at all.

This thread is about Joy--and yeah, I'm more comfortable talking about that as a topic... I like and respect her a ton. I agree that she's LIE... It's become more obvious to me over time... I really respect how she continues to improve herself and expand her horizons, how she's open to many different ideas... There aren't a lot of ppl like that, in my experience. She is very intelligent... DiscoJoe is lucky.



yeah man, I doubt that you're ISTj. lol.

oic

You didn't seem like someone who would go around randomly talking about your sexuality for no apparent reason.

I think there is a term for what you're talking about, pansexual. I guess I would probably fall into this category as well, though I've never done more than made out with a female. I wanted to for awhile and almost did a number of times, but it just never quite happened.

I know yeah hahaha.

Oh, lol. I thought that you said "Your support for that claim is terribly impressive" based on your knowledge of who he was.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

But JuJu not everything is about you and your comfort level with things.

The reason we need to be 'out there' and talk about our sexuality is because people are still being discriminated for this shit. It's not about being vulgar or offensive. I know nobody cares but that's not the point.

You don't have to act like me, and I'm not the gay guru or anything (well I actually am) but not coming out and saying you're not 'gay' just because you don't like being perceived a certain way... is just silly to me. Not only silly but it's flat-out homophobia and there's no way that I can pretty that up.

I understand not wanting to be misunderstood/labeled but you have epic gay powers, and you risk a lot of pain to get the love you need.

If you don't think other gay people didn't die for your right to exist here and post this stuff well then.. *sigh* Well they did okay? You should respect that.

I don't care what your personality/mannerisms are, but every time you don't come out and explain your relationship and talk about it, you are letting the bad guys win.

[Gilly]

You make it sound like he has some kind of inherent responsibility to talk about his gayness. I mean I think it's great that he does it to the extent that he already has; sounds like he's taken big steps, and I personally wouldn't support anything that discourages or belittles what he's done already. His level of comfort talking about this stuff is totally dependent on him as an individual; saying that having some reservations is "leting the bad guys win" is only going to make him adopt a standoffish attitude towards people who tell him he needs to do more than he is comfortable with, and divisiveness isn't going to accomplish anything in a group of people that is small enough as is.