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Thread: ESTp & INTp semi-duality relations (SLE-ILI)

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    Default ESTp & INTp semi-duality relations (SLE-ILI)

    How do these two fair? I am dealing with an INTp friend who is also, well a lover. He's confusing because he's affectionate most of the times. He behaves like we're in a relationship when we're not, and when I bring it up he'll behave awkward for a little while, we'll get in a spat, only to make up shortly, and things will be better afterwards. He continually behaves more and more like we're together, but we are not. It's confusing as hell. I've never dealt with INTps before...so can someone enlighten me on their tendancies and the reason behind their actions?
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    1) you are describing the relationship of the moth and the flame, getting together and separating.

    2) INTP's have a big need for time for themselves.

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    I thought about posting in Beta... but since it moved here... Is it that one of you wants a "relationship" and the other doesn't?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I thought about posting in Beta... but since it moved here... Is it that one of you wants a "relationship" and the other doesn't?
    Yeah. I think that the concept of being "friends and lovers but not in a relationship" would not be obvious to a Gamma. However, from his point of view, he may well understand the concept but have a different understanding of what it means; like, understanding that they are not "together" but have a different understanding of what it means in terms of behavior, committment etc than ESTP does.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
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    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    if you're friends and you're fucking you're obviously having some kind of relationship aren't you? i mean, how do you just go and say you're not in a relationship? i mean, would you have sex with somebody else? who pays for dinner? how often do you talk on the phone? don't really get this kind of thing myself maybe it's an NT thing.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    I was replying to this earlier and for some reason never finished. I think all I was saying was that my first impression of this situation was a Fi vs. Fe misunderstanding. And I think I was going to make an attempt to explain the differences, but it's too complex and I'll probably mess it up so I'll leave the burden of that upon the experts on the subject.
    ILI (Indescribable Lovemaking Inc.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I thought about posting in Beta... but since it moved here... Is it that one of you wants a "relationship" and the other doesn't?
    Quite exactly.
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    if you're friends and you're fucking you're obviously having some kind of relationship aren't you? i mean, how do you just go and say you're not in a relationship? i mean, would you have sex with somebody else? who pays for dinner? how often do you talk on the phone? don't really get this kind of thing myself maybe it's an NT thing.
    well, i wasnt fucking anyone else, dunno about him, we text 24/7, for the last five weeks...anywho, it was confusing i sent him an email, explaining he oughta explain his intentions, cuz he was confusing, and anywho....
    we are not in a relationship, he doesnt want one, 3 months ago he got out of a 5 yr relationship and cant just jump into another, understood however he still wants to be friends, so i told him flat out no more sex or anything that friends wouldnt do....so theres that, thats the development as of today

    i cant get a song line out of my head since we had this conovo....it keeps replaying over and over in my head, and i feel soo fucking energized its ridiculous, the line goes "and maybe there'll come one day when you'll feel safe but i wont have the time" ahahah anywho...SO ENERGIZED HERE!!!
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ESTP View Post
    How do these two fair? I am dealing with an INTp friend who is also, well a lover. He's confusing because he's affectionate most of the times. He behaves like we're in a relationship when we're not, and when I bring it up he'll behave awkward for a little while, we'll get in a spat, only to make up shortly, and things will be better afterwards. He continually behaves more and more like we're together, but we are not. It's confusing as hell. I've never dealt with INTps before...so can someone enlighten me on their tendancies and the reason behind their actions?
    This makes me smile . I test as INTp half the time.... and you just described the "relationship" I had with my SLE for about 18 months - exactly.

    About 4 months ago though, it's like he woke up one morning and realized, "Holy Shit! I really AM totally in love with this crazy, confusing IEI!"

    Once decided it was time to quit BS-ing around, commitments were made and joint house payments commenced. We're disgustingly happy.

    The moral of this story... sounds like love to me. Go ahead and toss around the "R-word" to describe your "friendship" - that throat-closing feeling of claustrophobia should pass soon (LOL).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    if you're friends and you're fucking you're obviously having some kind of relationship aren't you? i mean, how do you just go and say you're not in a relationship? i mean, would you have sex with somebody else? who pays for dinner? how often do you talk on the phone? don't really get this kind of thing myself maybe it's an NT thing.
    I always love when Sunshine's Voice of Reason enters a thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post

    The moral of this story... sounds like love to me. Go ahead and toss around the "R-word" to describe your "friendship" - that throat-closing feeling of claustrophobia should pass soon (LOL).
    hah doesnt sound like love much to me...earlier today we disucssed it and he said he doesnt want a relationship... but he wants to stay friends, he was pushing for it, so i said on the condition there is no more fucking or anything that friends wouldnt do...he said he understood,...but knowing our relationship and how we interact, im pretty sure down the road well end up in the same place we are right now, but because of how i feel burnt know, however knowingly involving myself in this situation....i will not let it happen, and he will just realize how awsome i am and cant live without the other non-friends things we were doing...i just know it, but knowing me i will also reject him, hence he obsesson with the lyrics "and maybe theyll come one day when you feel safe and i wont have the time"

    I HATE MEN.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    I always love when Sunshine's Voice of Reason enters a thread


    favorite quote: "I don't know if you realize this or not, but you are in a relationship." lol

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by ESTP View Post
    well, i wasnt fucking anyone else, dunno about him, we text 24/7, for the last five weeks...anywho, it was confusing i sent him an email, explaining he oughta explain his intentions, cuz he was confusing, and anywho....
    we are not in a relationship, he doesnt want one, 3 months ago he got out of a 5 yr relationship and cant just jump into another, understood however he still wants to be friends, so i told him flat out no more sex or anything that friends wouldnt do....so theres that, thats the development as of today

    i cant get a song line out of my head since we had this conovo....it keeps replaying over and over in my head, and i feel soo fucking energized its ridiculous, the line goes "and maybe there'll come one day when you'll feel safe but i wont have the time" ahahah anywho...SO ENERGIZED HERE!!!

    but you're having sex now right? hahahaha and why would you not? i like the song line, too, very Se for sure.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    NO, we are no longer fucking. We are electing to however just stay friends. But even after one day, I can see him, he's showing signs of I dont wanna say regret...but I can see that which I mentioned earlier along the lines of he's gonna regret that he didn't when he had the chance...he's not obvious, but I know him. And it's slowly starting to show, but I can see at times he's almost bitter. HAHA
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ESTP View Post
    NO, we are no longer fucking. We are electing to however just stay friends. But even after one day, I can see him, he's showing signs of I dont wanna say regret...but I can see that which I mentioned earlier along the lines of he's gonna regret that he didn't when he had the chance...he's not obvious, but I know him. And it's slowly starting to show, but I can see at times he's almost bitter. HAHA
    my SLE ex had a friend (not female) who was in ILI. they got along well....he used to kinda fuck with the ILI. dunno why i'm saying this except that i got kind of a similar whiff from what you just said.

    well....you get to say shoulda woulda coulda lol while you're moving on to the next.

    NEXT!!!

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    I did have a tendancy from time to time to mind-fuck him. It was mostly to get a reaction out of him, and it worked every time. It still does. I have a fear of seeing him, because once we're together, there's this crazy physical attraction. (in our disucssion about how we're just friends we, I should say I established that we will no longer be sleeping with each other)

    I called him a jerk the other day, and he went on to explain how he wasnt trying to be and was very appologetic for it, even though I over-reacted. He has a tendancy to make me over-react to things sometimes. He also has a tendancy to be appologetc and very explanitory when I am either disappointed or angry at him for whatever reason. (really surprising considering his usual thinking of "im king shit")

    Another big oh-oh for me with him, is that we're both EXTREMELY STUBBORN. And we quarrel a lot when it comes to discussions, but sometimes even though I know I am right, I will say "okay, you're right" and it will totally boggle him, he'll have this WTF look on his face and smile and just say..."ok..." kinda speechlessly. It's funny, but at the same time I'm surprised that I would agree to step down to keep-the-peace so to speak.
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    my SLE ex had a friend (not female) who was in ILI. they got along well....he used to kinda fuck with the ILI. dunno why i'm saying this except that i got kind of a similar whiff from what you just said.

    well....you get to say shoulda woulda coulda lol while you're moving on to the next.

    NEXT!!!
    this is why i have a hard time seeing you as ILE.

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    Give up on that wussy little INTp. I've learnt from my relationship with Maria. Despite her obvious infatuation with me, she is still unable to quit smoking, and sees only the patterns in my behaviour, generally finding hard to come to terms with her discernible affections towards my hostile advances.

    Give up on INTp's. Find another ESTp or get yourself an INFp.
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    "Yes, it will be done."


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    Poor, you, ESTP. I mean, the other guy you talked about, your IEI, people said the same of him; that he was a wuss or something. Can you truly dig dominatrix? Maybe you need to find yourself a rough SLE fella to combat with in the bedroom.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    this is why i have a hard time seeing you as ILE.
    splain, niff, :-)

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    still finding it hard not to think about the INTp all the darn time...GRRR
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    Okay, so, we went back to our old ways. Friends with benefits, although it seems a little more than that. But, that's where it stands.

    Ive read up on INTp behaviour, and it's spot on. It's almost like they are writing about him.

    Before the last I saw him, we talked and I told him I may go on a date with someone, after that he called me that night, and was really sweet and "just saying hi" sorta deal.

    I never went on the date, I elected to go out with a bunch of friends, but still his behaviour was very favourable.

    When I saw him this past sunday, I stayed at his place, but he seemed a little more withdrawn. But none the less, he was sensual at times. We had a lot of laughs, but my behaviour was somewhat withdrawn and a little indifferent at times too. We were both tired, but made every efferot to stay up as late as we did.

    Im seeing this as a withdraw and annalyze stage he's going through?

    The more indifferent I behave, the more I find him being sweet and givnig me more and more of what I want/need. I think I may be helping him develop his Fe however slowly it is.

    What's ya'll take on this?
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    introvert with leading Ni is what it is. they hafta step back and contemplate things. but then, while they are contemplating, they get nervous that you're off doing who knows what. and they'd be right because you know you're an EP and we are always into something. we're not gonna wait around. so then they start to schmoozle you again, make sure you're not getting into any trouble (or into anybody else's pants).

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    hahah, i think thats so true sunshine...
    he was all tired yesterday, so to lighten his mood, (he has this thing for wanting to do a three some, i suggested only if it was a guy and he lost his mind, but its ok if there's another girl in the mix anyways...) so to make him laugh i was like

    ME:i had a girl inside me today (i had my annual gyno)
    HIM:"uh...what?"
    ME:ya, i had a chick with her fingers up my cootch today
    HIm: alrighty then
    HIM: i wont ask
    ...then i went on to explain i was trying to lighten his mood, and that it was true none the less, and he stopped talking for about 5 mins..then changed the topic

    typically, he'd be like WOAH, and totally get into the convo...but i dont know, since this past weekend after all the things happen in the previous post i mentioned, shit like that doesnt get him hyped...yes he was tired, but at the same time, i noticed he's a little more sensitive about certain shit i say, that before he would laugh at or whatever
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    don't worry he's just in the space-time continuum aka "the vortex". lol

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Unhappy

    I regret to inform everyone, that, I am in love.
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    what a mind boggler
    INTp

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    its hard to admit it...even to myself
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    your life could fuel a cheesy romance novel
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    I know.
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ESTP View Post
    I regret to inform everyone, that, I am in love.
    what happened to the infp dude from awhile ago? moved on i guess?

    well i think being in love is a great thing. being in love is a blast, actually! congratulations.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    My love doesnt last long if it's not reciprocated.

    INFp dood...I dunno, that just whithered out.

    I think, now that I've admited that I am in love with INTp, I am ready to call it quits. I know it sounds werid, but all the excitment I had for him he killed with his "solitude". His inability to make plans, and sometimes follow through last minute. I'm sick of the push-pull bullshit. I was ready to do that a few days ago, but I saw him breifly and it felt like someone poured water on my head and I couldn't be mad at him anymore. But, his inability to agree to attend an event with me tonight, he is "not sure what he's doing"...has made me....I dont know the word for it. Ready to move past him?
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ESTP View Post
    My love doesnt last long if it's not reciprocated.

    INFp dood...I dunno, that just whithered out.

    I think, now that I've admited that I am in love with INTp, I am ready to call it quits. I know it sounds werid, but all the excitment I had for him he killed with his "solitude". His inability to make plans, and sometimes follow through last minute. I'm sick of the push-pull bullshit. I was ready to do that a few days ago, but I saw him breifly and it felt like someone poured water on my head and I couldn't be mad at him anymore. But, his inability to agree to attend an event with me tonight, he is "not sure what he's doing"...has made me....I dont know the word for it. Ready to move past him?
    funny. that's Ni for ya.

    you need reciprocation to stay in love? wow that is very SLE for sure. constant feedback or you're on to the next thing. interesting. kinda like what have you done for me lately. why do you think you are like that?

    the solitude thing doesn't challenge you? really? when infpman does this, i kinda consider it a challenge, how am i going to get him motivated to come out and do something? then i move into some kind of persuasive negotiation thing.....it usually works. but sometimes it doesn't. since sometimes he says, about me, "you want someone to stand up to you." hahahaha

    push-pull. hilarious, we actually use this phrase with each other to describe what's going on. we've kind of realized that this is always going on between us, it sort of defines the relationship or something. but now that we've made it explicit, it's more funny than anything else.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    funny. that's Ni for ya.

    you need reciprocation to stay in love? wow that is very SLE for sure. constant feedback or you're on to the next thing. interesting. kinda like what have you done for me lately. why do you think you are like that?
    I do need constant feedback, or i WILL move on to the next thing. I have been in situations where I have invested SO MUCH of myself for hardly anything, and ended up hurt, upset, angry, sat....bitter-betty. I do not want to go through that again.

    If I believe someone is becoming disinterested, I will do them a favour and speed up the process. I do not like to drag things out, or mull over in a "ill wait and just maybe" sense. I like it clear cut...yes/no. I don't like to hang in the basement, while the house is being built.
    There are exceptions, like always, but the positive has to significantly outweight the circumstance of the "exception" and be lucerative for me (whichever way).

    When I care about someone, I treat them like Gold, if they cannot do the same, then what is the point. People understandably have different way of "reciprocating" and when you know enough about someone, it may not be the way you want it...but as long as I recognize that it's their way or "reciprocating" than it's good enough.
    the solitude thing doesn't challenge you? really? when infpman does this, i kinda consider it a challenge, how am i going to get him motivated to come out and do something? then i move into some kind of persuasive negotiation thing.....it usually works. but sometimes it doesn't. since sometimes he says, about me, "you want someone to stand up to you." hahahaha
    It is a challange, and at it's been fun at times. I have gotten my way, and I have not. Knowing him, it's an accomplishment when I manage to manipulate him to my way. He is STUBBORN. So am I, and for the first time in a LONG time, I am comprimising, even stepping back sometimes. Scary. That attitude at the same time, draws me back in because he DOESNT fall to every whim of mine, and he is not afraid to argue with me. We sometimes argue SO MUCH, but it almost brings us closer together. I like that he is not intimidated by me, and he probably has more control over me than anyone I know. I cannot explain it, but it draws in me SOOO much. Surprisingly he is shorter than me, and has a smaller frame. It's awkward, and I'd say it's comical, but I dont care. He is just magnificent. But, right now I hate him. (ahh when I say I hate him, I feel like I someone chiseling a piece of my heart out LMAO HOW GAY)
    push-pull. hilarious, we actually use this phrase with each other to describe what's going on. we've kind of realized that this is always going on between us, it sort of defines the relationship or something. but now that we've made it explicit, it's more funny than anything else.
    I say push pull because when I show a lot of interest he withdraws, when I show indiferece he chases. It's kind of annoying, cuz right now I just wish we would be on the same wave-length. I think it wouldnt be so bad if we had more time together. I think I mentioned earlier in the froum that i will be moving sometime in mid-end august, two hrs away. And I just wanna spend as much time with him as possible. He is making it a little hard, but whatever. Thats what is brining me to the point where I just dont want to bother. We had a similar spat before, and we shortly went back to being the way we were. After we moved on like nothing happend, and we dont bring it up, but to me at least when I thought about what had taken place while we were not on good terms...I was laughing. So was he I think inside, because for a while he showed a soft and sweet side. Uncharacteristically, soft and sweet side, and now its back to the withdrawl phase. Its annoying, the clock is ticking.
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

  35. #35
    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESTP View Post
    I regret to inform everyone, that, I am in love.
    My condolences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mercutio View Post
    My condolences.
    Thank you.
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    It is a challange, and at it's been fun at times. I have gotten my way, and I have not. Knowing him, it's an accomplishment when I manage to manipulate him to my way. He is STUBBORN. So am I, and for the first time in a LONG time, I am comprimising, even stepping back sometimes. Scary. That attitude at the same time, draws me back in because he DOESNT fall to every whim of mine, and he is not afraid to argue with me. We sometimes argue SO MUCH, but it almost brings us closer together. I like that he is not intimidated by me, and he probably has more control over me than anyone I know. I cannot explain it, but it draws in me SOOO much. Surprisingly he is shorter than me, and has a smaller frame. It's awkward, and I'd say it's comical, but I dont care. He is just magnificent. But, right now I hate him. (ahh when I say I hate him, I feel like I someone chiseling a piece of my heart out LMAO HOW GAY)
    man i feel like i'm listening to myself when i read this. this is exactly the way it goes between me and infpman. there's this fucking draw he has...sometimes i can even physically feel it in my chest. and yeah, i compromise more than i ever ever have and step back a lot too. and i love it that he will stand up to me and at times lead me - this is when i feel most drawn to him.

    I say push pull because when I show a lot of interest he withdraws, when I show indiferece he chases. It's kind of annoying, cuz right now I just wish we would be on the same wave-length. I think it wouldnt be so bad if we had more time together. I think I mentioned earlier in the froum that i will be moving sometime in mid-end august, two hrs away. And I just wanna spend as much time with him as possible. He is making it a little hard, but whatever. Thats what is brining me to the point where I just dont want to bother. We had a similar spat before, and we shortly went back to being the way we were. After we moved on like nothing happend, and we dont bring it up, but to me at least when I thought about what had taken place while we were not on good terms...I was laughing. So was he I think inside, because for a while he showed a soft and sweet side. Uncharacteristically, soft and sweet side, and now its back to the withdrawl phase. Its annoying, the clock is ticking.
    Today 01:17 PM

    that's exactly how it works. it's like you have to keep them coming for you but at the same time it's hard because my natural inclination is to lead/pursue/initiate. so yeah push-pull. it does get a little bit wearing...how do you think he feels about you moving two hours away? i could see how that could be a problem what with gas and all these days. how will the two of you see each other if you are so far apart, distance wise?

    funny, i always feel like i'm on some kind of time table, too. i'm like, let's get on with it. i've started to see though that really there's no time table. it's gotten kind of fun to live totally without a relationship goal, just for today. kind of exciting i think

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    how do you think he feels about you moving two hours away? i could see how that could be a problem what with gas and all these days. how will the two of you see each other if you are so far apart, distance wise?
    Well there's the conundrum. You see, we are not in a relationship. Even though, everyone we know thinks we're a couple. It's ridiculous, and amusing at the same time, we def. behave like a couple. With that being said for the 8th million time. How does he feel eh??

    Well...here's the thing. When we talked about this last week, I sort of, kind of, said that, we "should spend as much time together as possible during the next three weeks, and after that...that's it". He doesn't want to be in a relationship, so that was my way of saying...lets do it up, and drop it at the end.

    When we talked about it in depth, we both seemed a little unsure of what the outcome was going to be after I move. We went to reassure each other that we will still see each other, and what not. We both seemed more excited after that.

    Actually, the city I'm moving to is a major city, and he has a condo there. He usually drives up on the weekends, and when he has time off. So, it's not the worst thing in the world. For me, I like having a piece of mind, that once I move, I will not have this baggage with me. Its sad to say, but that's my preception of it. I don't want dealings in a sketchy non-relationship.

    I think he believes things will be the same after I'm gone. Sunshine, do you think his withdrawing is him either distancing himself cuz he acutally does care? or do you think that he's just being typical? What's ur take on this? We saw each other a couple days ago, very briefly, I just handed him some paperwork (thats when i was mad at him, and when i saw him i felt "like someone poured water over me") when he saw me, i saw his expression change. Like, there was a great magnetism and I think he may feel more than he is willing to admit. I think he just isn't ready. But, there's the skeptical side of me that thinks, it's just how he rolls. It's just the way he is with every chick, and any chick.

    Another question for ya Sunshine...when we spend the night....in the beggining the first few times, I would dash off right after we did the deed. The second time we were together, he asked me to stay the night. I stayed, until he fell asleep then darted off. That happend a couple times. Then, I spent the night. The whole night, he was hugging me up, he like had one hand on my face the whole night, and was hugging me. Now, it's just something we're accustomed to, that I just stay over when I go over. It's just presumed. And it's always the same thing, after sex, he is really affectionate & sensual. It's intense. He always holds my face, always...whenever we kiss, touch, whatever...if were watching tv, i usually lay in his lap and he always plays with my hair, or ill be scratching him lightly with my nails and shit. He always kisses my head, my eyebrows, sometimes well just hold a kiss for minutes at a time. After the big fight we had, the next time we slept together, he held my hand in his almost the entire night, while holding my face with his other hand across my jaw/neck, and had a leg around me the whole night. All that being said, I dont understand then, like this week why he's being so withdrawn.
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

  39. #39
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    from my limited observations of you i'm inclined to think it's better this ends now so you save time and misery on both sides; ...particular on his side. now you can go about the serious business of getting a tattoo on your lower back (if you dont already have one) and start bar hopping
    INTp

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    what do u mean particularly him?

    and no thanks i dont do tats
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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