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Thread: Examples of extraverted intuition

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    Default Examples of extraverted intuition

    I've read this description of how "Ne" works as a base funcition for ILEs and IEEs from the Wikisocion:
    The individual is skilled at generating intellectual interest and curiosity in others and using others' curiosity to get them to do things.

    He easily sees parallels between different situations, areas of knowledge or skill, and people, and likes to establish contacts across different fields of knowledge and social groups, which allows him to be part of many things at once. He enjoys considering differing viewpoints and perspectives and seeing if they can be reconciled.

    He enjoys the beginning stages of just about anything - new projects, acquiring new skills, experiencing new people and relationships. Preparing for and launching something new is seen as having greater value than the process of experiencing what one already has and finishing what one has begun. The concept of "finishing" seems foreign to him. Instead of taking care to finish things and tie up all loose ends, he tends to drop things when he can't handle them any longer or realize that he has neglected them for too long
    Can someone provide examples of how this manifests in real life? How would I recognize ILEs and IEEs using Ne if I saw it with my own eyes?
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    Fuck my threads. = (
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    Look instead as the mime hypnotizes
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    I don't know if this is saying the same thing, but I suppose one way that the ability to see parallels between different situations would manifest is telling an anecdotal story about a similar sounding situation.

    I tend to do this a lot in any typical conversation:

    I will listen to the topic at hand and if perchance I think of something "interesting" that I think would shed some interesting insight to the topic or maybe a different way to look at the situation, I will demonstrate this by recounting something that has personally happened to me Edit: or that I've personally observed.

    Here's another example. Let's suppose that the topic of conversation is about music and the discussion is more than simply "What's your favorite music?" Like someone says something like "I heard this really cool song today. Here, have a listen." Usually what this does is it will remind me of similar sounding music, maybe artists that are direct influences on the artist himself. So I will say something like, "You know what this music reminds me of? ______." And then go on to explain what it is that I'm hearing and contrast or compare it to what it is that I'm thinking of.

    As far as the "finishing" vs "starting" bit, if you know someone who has a long list of things that they'd like to do, but can't really seem to get started on any of the things in the list, and as a result the list actually gets larger rather than smaller, I'd say that's a decent sign that is causing that.

    But as far as experiencing new things or new people, I'd say maybe that's something like someone who likes to sample various experiences without fully immersing themselves in the experience.

    From the wikisocion IEE domain:

    Social experiments

    IEEs are often less interested in people than in the social relations involved. They often are "social experimenters" who try experiencing different social situations for fun without really being completely "in it," or setting up situations where they will be able to observe how different people interact. This serves to satisfy their curiosity about social interaction and people's personalities and is generally harmless, though disliked by some.
    These kinds of things are just naturally interesting to watch and observe.
    Last edited by tereg; 07-09-2008 at 10:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    For me it's also about finding the irreducible essence of something. The universal meaning behind an idea, which cannot be altered in any way. This lets me combine the idea with other ideas in new and interesting ways.
    To illustrate this, this happened in a conversation I had with Maria yesterday in which I wanted to wrap my mind around the essence and characteristics of . It's one thing to tell me some sort of external manifestation and then tell me that this is an example of . I'd prefer to go in the other direction -- give me the bare characteristics or essence of the function, so that I can come up with several manifestations myself. It's a bit too clunky to have to "memorize" random examples of things that demonstrate and be expected to explain effectively to someone should they ask me what it is.

    For instance, she was talking about how this idea of sort of nagging or complaining someone to get something done can be construed as an example of , but I wasn't seeing why that was the case. I was seeing other elements in that. Then I explained to her what I was hoping to get in my understanding of by explaining how I will take the bare characteristics of , and how then use the characteristics from that to illustrate and explain examples of .

    So then when she told me that one particular example of is the idea of being able to hurry things up or slow things down, I then realized she was saying that it's partially about the idea of being able to manage time, not time itself, but rather being able to dictate the tempo or pace that some abstract thing or task is moving in.

    So, yes, I also need those bare characteristics in order to fully understand the essence of something.

    I also do the tangential thing as well; fixated on things closely related to what I'm observing or doing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Well... I have a friend that told me he wanted to quit his job. And for some reason I suddenly just knew he was trying to get a job in my company. How did I "know". I can't really tell.

    I called him and asked him directly, and he thought someone at work had told me as, indeed, he was going for an interview the next day. Nobody had told me or even hinted. I didn't even know they were about to interview anyone.

    I do such things all the time. ALL the time. Sometimes I know what pieces of reality I put together to find the answer, sometimes I don't.

    Think of it as a puzzle. I have maybe 10 out of 50 pieces, but suddenly I know the motif of the puzzle anyway, and can jump to the conclusion. It's almost always accurate. I might have heard something in my friends voice, I might have seen an executive talk to someone they only talk with when someone is going to be hired, etc. I don't even know.

    I guess that after I see the whole picture having my 10 pieces, I'll be bored to look for the links between (and the last 40 pieces). That's why I don't find it interesting to finish things. In my head they are already finished...

    Don't know if this is a combination of Ne and Fi, though, but it's mostly Ne.
    I definitely relate to this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbsirena06 View Post
    I definitely relate to this.
    I doubt much of that's related to Ne base. But other ENps can tell better.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    I doubt much of that's related to Ne base. But other ENps can tell better.
    Whatever it is related to, I identify with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Why do you doubt it?
    Because I am not sure it is. And I don't believe in your self-typing much either.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by qbsirena06 View Post
    Whatever it is related to, I identify with it.
    I heard you the first time.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    I heard you the first time.
    Good. Just in case.

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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Your eyes are making me dizzy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Well... I have a friend that told me he wanted to quit his job. And for some reason I suddenly just knew he was trying to get a job in my company. How did I "know". I can't really tell.

    I called him and asked him directly, and he thought someone at work had told me as, indeed, he was going for an interview the next day. Nobody had told me or even hinted. I didn't even know they were about to interview anyone.

    I do such things all the time. ALL the time. Sometimes I know what pieces of reality I put together to find the answer, sometimes I don't.

    Think of it as a puzzle. I have maybe 10 out of 50 pieces, but suddenly I know the motif of the puzzle anyway, and can jump to the conclusion. It's almost always accurate. I might have heard something in my friends voice, I might have seen an executive talk to someone they only talk with when someone is going to be hired, etc. I don't even know.

    I guess that after I see the whole picture having my 10 pieces, I'll be bored to look for the links between (and the last 40 pieces). That's why I don't find it interesting to finish things. In my head they are already finished...

    Don't know if this is a combination of Ne and Fi, though, but it's mostly Ne.
    i identify with it as well. now i think since i realized i'm EII, this is mostly my Fi that puts those pieces together about another PERSON. i do this with people, not with other areas of life...

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    Example of Ne behavior (probably mixed with Fi or Ti):

    I work as an independent contractor for a large international IT company. Although it doesn't belong to my job description, I volunteered the idea of Brown Bag Seminars (which is well received by both management and personnel), I am frequently asked to do photography (since they discovered I'm always carrying my SLR camera with me) and can even charge the time for that. I also organize social events, particularly ones that I regard to be of an Si nature, e.g. in August we'll be going to an outdoors theater for a play by Maxim Gorki and have a pick nick on the benches under the summer sun.

    Because I take the initiative, I'm frequently asked for other stuff. A while ago I was asked to lead team motivation sessions (in order to get a team of developers invent a plan to improve work conditions), or to make pitch videos of new staff (by the way, I suggested that they recruit own staff for that and give these people a chance at 'play', but they didn't want this, they want me to do it).

    The essence of IxE types, is not that they just come up with ideas, but that they start acting on it too and thereby create their own opportunities (and often a lot of unfinished bits in the process as well).

    This reminds me of something on the wiki IEE Domain:

    Alas, it seems the corporate world doesn't leave room for IEEs to freely do what they do best. Everything the IEE does best is done spontaneously anyways, based on some internal upwelling of ideas or enthusiasm.
    Well, perhaps I'm not IEE, but my experience is that there's a LOT of room in the corporate world for an IxE to do what they do best, provided you have proven your value with your regular duties first!

    By the way, my girlfriend (SEI) and I are organizing our first Si/Ne party: we're going to invite some friends over to my spacious living room (I knew it would come in handy some day) to watch art house movies while eating away delicious food. I will invite two Delta friends (one SLI, one LSE) and my girlfriend will invite some of her friends, which I haven't met yet, so I wonder if they turn out to be alphas too. Which each such party, we'll choose a theme, and the first time the theme will be "food". I already have chosen Ang Lee's "Eat Drink Man Woman", but I need a couple of suggestions for art house style movies in which food and drink play a prominent role. Suggestions anyone?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Well... I have a friend that told me he wanted to quit his job. And for some reason I suddenly just knew he was trying to get a job in my company. How did I "know". I can't really tell.

    I called him and asked him directly, and he thought someone at work had told me as, indeed, he was going for an interview the next day. Nobody had told me or even hinted. I didn't even know they were about to interview anyone.

    I do such things all the time. ALL the time. Sometimes I know what pieces of reality I put together to find the answer, sometimes I don't.

    Think of it as a puzzle. I have maybe 10 out of 50 pieces, but suddenly I know the motif of the puzzle anyway, and can jump to the conclusion. It's almost always accurate. I might have heard something in my friends voice, I might have seen an executive talk to someone they only talk with when someone is going to be hired, etc. I don't even know.

    I guess that after I see the whole picture having my 10 pieces, I'll be bored to look for the links between (and the last 40 pieces). That's why I don't find it interesting to finish things. In my head they are already finished...

    Don't know if this is a combination of Ne and Fi, though, but it's mostly Ne.
    these are pretty good descriptions of how leading Ne functions. leading Ne is hard to describe since it's so vague the way the information is perceived. variant data sort of coheses into conclusions, which are reached outside of the body kind of, and the conclusion goes into the brain directly. whereas with S types the data goes into the brain, and the brain then organizes conclusions. with Ne, the conclusions are reached outside of the brain.

    i realize this probably makes no sense to anybody.

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    forgot to say that Ne is correct a lot of the time.

    but sometimes it is not. people who do not value Ne choose the times that Ne is not correct to point out how Ne is generally not correct all the time.

    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I agree there's a lot of room for IxEs in the corporate world, at least in Europe. IxEs are the rulers in my world... However, I think a narrow-minded ST-boss might be hell for me.
    From my experience Ne-bosses and clients are good at starting projects and generating opportunities but they can be a real pain in the ass when you have to finish a project (or finish anything). When you have to "deliver". They just tend to create stress and disruption at this point. As if they don't understand that something has to be finished before we can move on to next thing. And they certainly are unrealistic in their demands and usually expect the actual implementation of their ideas to be quick and trivial. This means they have problems staying on budget and agreed timeframe. Not to mean you are like this. Experience probably plays a big role in understanding "realities". I like to work with them if I have someone acting as a sort of "filter" between us. Someone who can sort of control and channel their creativity and turn it into a positive force. Someone who helps them prioritize what is most important to do next and what can be left to be done later on and what should just be dropped completely (=dropped for now). Dropped even from "talks". I think e.g. EIE is a good filter person. Perhaps LIE too. (Edit: In theory SLI or LSE might work even better but I have no experience of that.) They can understand the Ne but can also channel it and shut it down when needed.

    I think one problem is that Ne people kind of expect other people to have strong Ne and be as aware and interested of "everything" as they are. I.e. they don't perceive their continuous input of difficult concepts and change requests to be harmful and disruptive. They can't see that it stresses and messes up people with weak Ne or with no preference for Ne point of view. These people don't know what to do with all this input as time and money is running out and new ideas and requests keep flowing. If these multitudes of ideas and request come from a boss or client it is hard to just reject them even when you think you should. Many Ne-people are pretty much never are aware of the practical difficulties people have to face when implementing their ideas and how time consuming it can be. And they don't want to be aware of them. They just want things to "magically" happen for them as soon as they voice something out. This is my experience anyways.

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    Mimosa, I think what you described has the foundation of Ne to it, but is essentially Fi reacting to Ne.

    This is how I find Ne works for me as an ILE:

    Let us say that you give me four random objects, ideas, words, etc. Ne instinctively shows me an array of possible associations with each individual item. Think of it like thought bubbles from each thing. All of this happens in the snap of a finger, almost instantaneously it kicks in, all these bubbles happen and while I start applying Ti to make connections, Ne is creating even more thought bubbles. Ne is constantly dividing and dissecting each idea or item, defining them in a thousand ways, taking them apart. Ne is seeing all the possible things that are. Not really physical, quantifiable definitions (though that's a vague part of) rather it sees an abstract how of something. All possible connections, then Ti or Fi picks out the "right" one or starts connecting the dots to make something new. If you've ever done mind-mapping, Ne is producing all the points and Ti/Fi is creating all the connections. Meanwhile, all those Ne bubbles are inert qualities, kind of like potentials, while Se is overt qualities and more concrete.

    The difficulty with Ne is that you're not always consciously aware of every single detail that your brain is coming up with, which is why it sometimes feels as though you've made an answer out of nothing. It's too abstract a process to pin down exactly where your perception is coming from. It's an instinctive, intuitive, understanding. Then there are times when someone will challenge what you've said and you need to take the time to find the root of that Ne perception, which is difficult because it's such an abstract process. So sometimes it will seem like we are unsure, or as though we haven't actually thought something through, which is not really true. We just have to catch up with our instinctive process. This is why you'll probably see a lot of Ne's frustrated when challenged by Se-valuers. It's like you need to press the rewind button and retrace the steps and try and quantify your abstract process (which is really difficult) while Ne continues to produce the rails and posts for your Ti/Fi train track. It can be good if these two can work together. For instance, I find working with ESTp's satisfying, because we're like a tag-team. We're providing both halves of that static perception necessary to fully develop an idea.

    Right, so I kind of went on a tangent there. Those are my thoughts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    The difficulty with Ne is that you're not always consciously aware of every single detail that your brain is coming up with, which is why it sometimes feels as though you've made an answer out of nothing. It's too abstract a process to pin down exactly where your perception is coming from. It's an instinctive, intuitive, understanding. Then there are times when someone will challenge what you've said and you need to take the time to find the root of that Ne perception, which is difficult because it's such an abstract process. So sometimes it will seem like we are unsure, or as though we haven't actually thought something through, which is not really true. We just have to catch up with our instinctive process. This is why you'll probably see a lot of Ne's frustrated when challenged by Se-valuers. It's like you need to press the rewind button and retrace the steps and try and quantify your abstract process (which is really difficult) while Ne continues to produce the rails and posts for your Ti/Fi train track. It can be good if these two can work together.
    This is also how I see it. That was a good way of putting it mn0good!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    The difficulty with Ne is that you're not always consciously aware of every single detail that your brain is coming up with, which is why it sometimes feels as though you've made an answer out of nothing. It's too abstract a process to pin down exactly where your perception is coming from. It's an instinctive, intuitive, understanding. Then there are times when someone will challenge what you've said and you need to take the time to find the root of that Ne perception, which is difficult because it's such an abstract process. So sometimes it will seem like we are unsure, or as though we haven't actually thought something through, which is not really true. We just have to catch up with our instinctive process. This is why you'll probably see a lot of Ne's frustrated when challenged by Se-valuers. It's like you need to press the rewind button and retrace the steps and try and quantify your abstract process (which is really difficult) while Ne continues to produce the rails and posts for your Ti/Fi train track. It can be good if these two can work together. For instance, I find working with ESTp's satisfying, because we're like a tag-team. We're providing both halves of that static perception necessary to fully develop an idea.
    or, as i said,

    these are pretty good descriptions of how leading Ne functions. leading Ne is hard to describe since it's so vague the way the information is perceived. variant data sort of coheses into conclusions, which are reached outside of the body kind of, and the conclusion goes into the brain directly. whereas with S types the data goes into the brain, and the brain then organizes conclusions. with Ne, the conclusions are reached outside of the brain.
    also, for myself, reaching into the 8th function for the actual facts and data is helpful in supporting conclusions. i was able to expand this function a lot when i received training in conducting investigations and forensic fact-finding.

    I think one problem is that Ne people kind of expect other people to have strong Ne and be as aware and interested of "everything" as they are. I.e. they don't perceive their continuous input of difficult concepts and change requests to be harmful and disruptive. They can't see that it stresses and messes up people with weak Ne or with no preference for Ne point of view. These people don't know what to do with all this input as time and money is running out and new ideas and requests keep flowing. If these multitudes of ideas and request come from a boss or client it is hard to just reject them even when you think you should. Many Ne-people are pretty much never are aware of the practical difficulties people have to face when implementing their ideas and how time consuming it can be. And they don't want to be aware of them. They just want things to "magically" happen for them as soon as they voice something out. This is my experience anyways.
    this is actually a very fair criticism of what it's like to work with Ne dominants, and why Ne, esp leading Ne, can be a hindrance in a business or work environment. there are limited work situations where Ne is useful and mostly this is restricted to brainstorming sessions, where out of the box thinking is specifically requested, and also Ne can be helpful when the facts and data don't exist and going on one's intuition leads one to facts and data.

    this is what actually leads to me say that, in a sense, leading functions usually go overboard and are out of balance, and therefore are of limited practical utility when working with others who don't value them. it took me a long time to realize that implementation takes a lot longer and is a lot more arduous than my Ne would have me believe. so, this puts me in a position of being more selective about choosing what ideas i will pursue rather than being scattered and trying to pursue all of them, distributing my energy so far and away that nothing can be accomplished and i feel totally overwhelmed, frustrated, and stressed out (and in need of Si).

    creative functions i think can be more useful in practical application, since you use your creative function judiciously and consciously instead of automatically.

    ILE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    this is actually a very fair criticism of what it's like to work with Ne dominants, and why Ne, esp leading Ne, can be a hindrance in a business or work environment. there are limited work situations where Ne is useful and mostly this is restricted to brainstorming sessions, where out of the box thinking is specifically requested, and also Ne can be helpful when the facts and data don't exist and going on one's intuition leads one to facts and data.

    this is what actually leads to me say that, in a sense, leading functions usually go overboard and are out of balance, and therefore are of limited practical utility when working with others who don't value them. it took me a long time to realize that implementation takes a lot longer and is a lot more arduous than my Ne would have me believe. so, this puts me in a position of being more selective about choosing what ideas i will pursue rather than being scattered and trying to pursue all of them, distributing my energy so far and away that nothing can be accomplished and i feel totally overwhelmed, frustrated, and stressed out (and in need of Si).

    creative functions i think can be more useful in practical application, since you use your creative function judiciously and consciously instead of automatically.
    I agree that this is a fair criticism of Ne leading types. However, I do find myself trying to compensate for this constantly. Realizing that I'm doing this and being very conscious about how it makes others feel, but not knowing how to effectively change it. I am very in tune with how those that don't value Ne are perceiving me at that moment and find myself trying to approach things differently, which just makes me feel and seem awkward, out of my element. Maybe this is an Fi subtype thing?

    Are you suggesting that we should purposely try to develop our creative functions in these situations? I think this is interesting. Could you tell me more about this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    I agree that this is a fair criticism of Ne leading types. However, I do find myself trying to compensate for this constantly. Realizing that I'm doing this and being very conscious about how it makes others feel, but not knowing how to effectively change it. I am very in tune with how those that don't value Ne are perceiving me at that moment and find myself trying to approach things differently, which just makes me feel and seem awkward, out of my element. Maybe this is an Fi subtype thing?

    Are you suggesting that we should purposely try to develop our creative functions in these situations? I think this is interesting. Could you tell me more about this?
    yes actually that is what i am suggesting for work situations, but only because you may have very little control over the personalities of the people you work with. like, say if you could have intra-quadra work relationships solely then you wouldn't need to restrict yourself to your creative function. but most of us don't get that choice, which is why work is such a pain in the ass. you have to constantly adjust who you are depending on who you are interacting with at work and how much power they have.

    for myself, i simply found better results that people appreciated more through use of my creative function. the creative is a nice place to live when the situation is largely unknown. so, in my job, developing systems, tools, training people on their use, etc. i think i just kind of kept my Ne more private...like, i'd research a bunch of stuff, find out about all kinds of things that might have a good application to my job, but i wouldn't really tell anybody about it until the moment was right. like, for example, i found this great assessment tool, but i waited until it looked like there was a problem with the assessment we were currently using (as identified by an outside expert) to present the new and improved assessment. like, if i had just come out with it, it would have been rejected out of hand and i would have been seen as a waster of time and a dreamer, unconnected to the priorities of the organization.

    it also kind of changes depending on who you are working for. like, for awhile, my boss's boss was an enfp, so this leadership really encouraged out of the box. she and i ended up working on a grant proposal together and ended up with a great product which i mostly developed and she sold through her great Fi relationship skills. but later, the enfp was replaced by an isfj....so this is the end of those days for sure. esp since my direct boss is an istj. between the two of them, there's going to be no room for Ne. but i can connect really with with istj on the Ti side...between the two of us we can convince isfj.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    this is actually a very fair criticism of what it's like to work with Ne dominants, and why Ne, esp leading Ne, can be a hindrance in a business or work environment. there are limited work situations where Ne is useful and mostly this is restricted to brainstorming sessions, where out of the box thinking is specifically requested, and also Ne can be helpful when the facts and data don't exist and going on one's intuition leads one to facts and data.

    this is what actually leads to me say that, in a sense, leading functions usually go overboard and are out of balance, and therefore are of limited practical utility when working with others who don't value them. it took me a long time to realize that implementation takes a lot longer and is a lot more arduous than my Ne would have me believe. so, this puts me in a position of being more selective about choosing what ideas i will pursue rather than being scattered and trying to pursue all of them, distributing my energy so far and away that nothing can be accomplished and i feel totally overwhelmed, frustrated, and stressed out (and in need of Si).

    creative functions i think can be more useful in practical application, since you use your creative function judiciously and consciously instead of automatically.
    I completely agree and this kind of observation becomes glaringly obvious if and when you enter a business-oriented workplace. I think learning to cope and adapt comes with maturity and experience. It's also why I think that with age people often balance out in a way that makes it difficult to pin point the root of their type anymore. But that's a whole other can of worms. How we adapt our relations becomes largely due to what is more important in our work place and the balance of functions. It might be interesting to study how type and sub-type affects the way we adapt to situations outside our area of natural inclination.

    In either case, I think both you and Sirena bring up very valid points of consideration in adapting Ne for certain situations.
    ILE
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    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

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    I find after talking with a few Ne people that yes, compared to me, their minds bounce all over the place.

    Let's use an incredily convoluted and simple example. Let's say that I was told to draw a very simple star.



    I find my mind would start linearly and go from top and around (Left), finishing where I started, whereas Ne people tend to start at one spot, then start at a different point, then a different point. The picture above represents what it looks like at the half way mark.


    Of course I could just flat out be wrong.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    I find after talking with a few Ne people that yes, compared to me, their minds bounce all over the place.

    Let's use an incredily convoluted and simple example. Let's say that I was told to draw a very simple star.



    I find my mind would start linearly and go from top and around (Left), finishing where I started, whereas Ne people tend to start at one spot, then start at a different point, then a different point. The picture above represents what it looks like at the half way mark.


    Of course I could just flat out be wrong.
    Good one LV!

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    Understanding and through boxes

    Scenario: Two young children (~ 2-4) who have found a large cardboard box on the floor.

    The Se-child plainly sees the box there. He sees that it is a large box. It is a brown box. It has five flat panels with four folding pieces at the roof of the box. The open end is facing up. It is hollow on the inside. The box has the grainy but smooth texture of cardboard. Objects can be placed in the box. The box is light weight and easy to move around. He notices the unique sounds that the cardboard box makes when he moves it around.

    The Ne-child sees some object there. It appears to be a box, but it is not just a box. It's a volcano! Lava is spewing out of the top! He climbs inside the box. It's a boat and the floor is the water! He folds in two of the panels leaving the other two flapping out. It's an airplane! The box turns over on its side. It's a dark and deep cave! The box is upside down now. It's a fort and a hideout!

    Se-child perceives and manipulates the physical properties of the box. Ne-child perceives and manipulates the abstract essence of the box.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Hmm... I kind of though your would make you more effective...? Clearly the -person will finish before you.


    Is it the slowing you down?

    heh, No, the Si is slowing me down because it was easier to erase the half of the 1st star as opposed to the same amount of lines individually on the 2nd star (on the right). I thought only a jerk would point it out though
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Understanding and through boxes

    Scenario: Two young children (~ 2-4) who have found a large cardboard box on the floord.

    The Se-child plainly sees the box there. He sees that it is a large box. It is a brown box. It has five flat panels with four folding pieces at the roof of the box. The open end is facing up. It is hollow on the inside. The box has the grainy but smooth texture of cardboard. Objects can be placed in the box. The box is light weight and easy to move around. He notices the unique sounds that the cardboard box makes when he moves it around.

    The Ne-child sees some object there. It appears to be a box, but it is not just a box. It's a volcano! Lava is spewing out of the top! He climbs inside the box. It's a boat and the floor is the water! He folds in two of the panels leaving the other two flapping out. It's an airplane! The box turns over on its side. It's a dark and deep cave! The box is upside down now. It's a fort and a hideout!

    Se-child perceives and manipulates the physical properties of the box. Ne-child perceives and manipulates the abstract essence of the box.
    snap you got it logos. good one.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    yes actually that is what i am suggesting for work situations, but only because you may have very little control over the personalities of the people you work with. like, say if you could have intra-quadra work relationships solely then you wouldn't need to restrict yourself to your creative function. but most of us don't get that choice, which is why work is such a pain in the ass. you have to constantly adjust who you are depending on who you are interacting with at work and how much power they have.

    for myself, i simply found better results that people appreciated more through use of my creative function. the creative is a nice place to live when the situation is largely unknown. so, in my job, developing systems, tools, training people on their use, etc. i think i just kind of kept my Ne more private...like, i'd research a bunch of stuff, find out about all kinds of things that might have a good application to my job, but i wouldn't really tell anybody about it until the moment was right. like, for example, i found this great assessment tool, but i waited until it looked like there was a problem with the assessment we were currently using (as identified by an outside expert) to present the new and improved assessment. like, if i had just come out with it, it would have been rejected out of hand and i would have been seen as a waster of time and a dreamer, unconnected to the priorities of the organization.

    it also kind of changes depending on who you are working for. like, for awhile, my boss's boss was an enfp, so this leadership really encouraged out of the box. she and i ended up working on a grant proposal together and ended up with a great product which i mostly developed and she sold through her great Fi relationship skills. but later, the enfp was replaced by an isfj....so this is the end of those days for sure. esp since my direct boss is an istj. between the two of them, there's going to be no room for Ne. but i can connect really with with istj on the Ti side...between the two of us we can convince isfj.
    This definitely sounds like a good idea, especially in work situations, which as you said are usually out of our control. Now I just have to figure out how to do it. I realize how it works for you with Ti, but Fi is much less practical and I'm not sure how to translate it into something "achievable" the way you would with Ti. I would guess ENTps do have an advantage in this case, at least for these types of situations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    Well.... You obviously didn't have the to evaluate the outcome, then ......
    Obviously =p

    I think I'm laziest person on the planet, but saves my ass on many levels.
    It's really too bad doesn't get the same respect in the office.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Se-child perceives and manipulates the physical properties of the box. Ne-child perceives and manipulates the abstract essence of the box.
    Nice one. I'll have to try to remember this when trying to explain it.
    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    heh, No, the Si is slowing me down because it was easier to erase the half of the 1st star as opposed to the same amount of lines individually on the 2nd star (on the right). I thought only a jerk would point it out though

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    I realize how it works for you with Ti, but Fi is much less practical and I'm not sure how to translate it into something "achievable" the way you would with Ti.
    What you should realize first is that you are not an IEE.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    This definitely sounds like a good idea, especially in work situations, which as you said are usually out of our control. Now I just have to figure out how to do it. I realize how it works for you with Ti, but Fi is much less practical and I'm not sure how to translate it into something "achievable" the way you would with Ti. I would guess ENTps do have an advantage in this case, at least for these types of situations.

    i wouldn't agree that Fi isn't useful. relationships between people are everything. any job that has to do with motivating other people, selling ideas, getting people to do stuff, smoothing over sticky situations would involve Fi. i would see IEE's as having the people advantage for sure.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    i wouldn't agree that Fi isn't useful. relationships between people are everything. any job that has to do with motivating other people, selling ideas, getting people to do stuff, smoothing over sticky situations would involve Fi. i would see IEE's as having the people advantage for sure.
    Yes, I definitely see what you mean. I guess I was thinking more in regards to practical matters, which is what I have trouble with...but I guess I should just focus on my strengths and stop worrying about this so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mimosa Pudica View Post
    I've never noticed not being respected, as most of the top managers here are -leading. I'd say we rather discriminate the IJ temperaments, as they are perceived robotic and only good for routine work (i.e. boring jobs)....

    Yeah, I think it probably depends more on the company leaders and the company atmosphere.

    certain IJ's can suck.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Yes, I definitely see what you mean. I guess I was thinking more in regards to practical matters, which is what I have trouble with...but I guess I should just focus on my strengths and stop worrying about this so much.
    Yeah stop worrying
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Yes, I definitely see what you mean. I guess I was thinking more in regards to practical matters, which is what I have trouble with...but I guess I should just focus on my strengths and stop worrying about this so much.

    yeah! you're awesome! :-) and i'm sure you are very smart, so you'll have no trouble figuring out what to do i'd think.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Yeah stop worrying
    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Yeah, I think it probably depends more on the company leaders and the company atmosphere.

    certain IJ's can suck.
    Certain anybodies can suck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    yeah! you're awesome! :-) and i'm sure you are very smart, so you'll have no trouble figuring out what to do i'd think.
    Thanks! And I definitely do appreciate your feedback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirena View Post
    Thanks! And I definitely do appreciate your feedback.
    you are welcome, and, thanks to you too!

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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