Type someone I know

[Mediator Kam]

I know this guy in real life, and I had the pleasure of sitting near his family during our cities fireworks show. He aspires to be a youtube phenomenon.

Yes I'm in a jolly mood.

[jessica129]

Oh my gosh. Wow.

[Rubicon]

I'm with Hostage Child. I think SEI.

[Rubicon]

or IEI

[Mediator Kam]

Now they run from SEI

The kid is extremely illogical, so no NT for him.

[Rubicon]

Wait, being funny and over dramatizing implies Fe? Why? Do you might outlining your reasoning or is it just a "hunch"?

..........honestly, I see any self respecting ILE as fighting tooth and nail not to be "fixed up" with this guy. That and, well, implying any sort of correlation to SEI is extremely offensive.

we have to accept the good with the bad ... :-)

[Rubicon]

Who's the good again? Britney Spears? Hilary Duff? I don't remember.

Well, I guess Hilary Duff's not that bad...

Johnny Depp? Ok ... admittedly I'm just going by his looks ...

[JuJu]

Beta NF is my guess... Oh yeah, and gay. lol

BTW, can't agree with the typing of Johnny Depp as ILI... I've watched quite a few interviews now--his emphasis on Si is what's become clear over time. (There's a great one of him and Tim Burton w/ Matt Lauer... Burton is Fe-ing about his musical, and Depp is just sitting there, tossing in a one-liner every now and then and smiling out of the corner of his mouth... SEI>SLI for Depp.)

[xyz]

Psst, hostage child: dolphin tends to take a lot of things to heart. I don't know why.

[JuJu]

I suppose we all do sometimes, but it just came out of nowhere. It's like, wtf man?

You explained yourself well, I think

[Wynch]

Wait, being funny and over dramatizing implies Fe? Why? Do you mind outlining your reasoning or is it just a "hunch"?

..........honestly, I see any self respecting ILE as fighting tooth and nail not to be "fixed up" with this guy. That and, well, implying any sort of correlation to SEI is extremely offensive.

Marry me?

This guy is clearly putting on an act. This things in no way reflects his actual personality, not to mention it seems a pretty clear demonstration of a lack of maturity, which doesn't necessarily reflect personality type. Have fun typing a ridiculous character. Pretending to be a ridiculous character =! Fe. Fe is aware of the emotional atmosphere and knows how to manipulate it. That's not funny or entertaining. It's like an idiot's attempt to mimic comedy.

Also, no self-respecting ILE would EVER enjoy the company of someone like this. It's completely offensive, demonstrates a complete lack of any kind of cleverness or wit, not to mention his voice is grating to the extreme on a personal level. Saying that you think he's gay is very offensive to homosexuals everywhere, btw. I wouldn't want to channel this "creativity". I would roll my eyes and tell him to grow up and find a real goal in life. This doesn't even have the creative potential for comedy, it's just a ridiculous imitation of the Leave Britney Alone guy.

[JuJu]

Saying that you think he's gay is very offensive to homosexuals everywhere, btw.

Why? You're speaking for homosexuals everywhere now? Great.

[Mediator Kam]

Hostage, just ignore Dolphin, I have no idea who's she trying to impress by jumping on people like that. btw that was a very coherent paragraph there. Good work.

But in all seriousness, he is gay. He's very open about it. And he is attempting to make himself a youtube celebrity, he has his own little fan thing on myspace and stuff.

I'm too perceptive to believe that a video such as that is an accurate indication of who this person really is.

Trust me, he's only a little less effusive irl. That is him.

Saying that you think he's gay is very offensive to homosexuals everywhere, btw.

As I said, he is openly homosexual.

[Mediator Kam]

And I was about to say that he tries to be like Chris Crocker, the leave britney alone guy.

[Wynch]

The fact that people see this kind of behaviour and decide that someone is homosexual is offensive. My homosexual friends have expressed those kinds of sentiments to me on a regular basis. It's part of social stereotyping that leads to prejudice. You're right, I shouldn't speak for all homosexuals, but as long as people associate that kind of behaviour with homosexuality then homosexuals will never have respect for their lifestyle. I mean what, from that, tells you that the person is homosexual? Nothing. Additionally, it makes a mockery of homosexual lifestyles to say that that kind of display is clearly gay. It's a stereotype the same way that it's a stereotype for me to say that all Delta NFs are judgmental dicks.

[Mediator Kam]

The fact that people see this kind of behaviour and decide that someone is homosexual is offensive. My homosexual friends have expressed those kinds of sentiments to me on a regular basis. It's part of social stereotyping that leads to prejudice. You're right, I shouldn't speak for all homosexuals, but as long as people associate that kind of behaviour with homosexuality then homosexuals will never have respect for their lifestyle. I mean what, from that, tells you that the person is homosexual? Nothing. Additionally, it makes a mockery of homosexual lifestyles to say that that kind of display is clearly gay. It's a stereotype the same way that it's a stereotype for me to say that all Delta NFs are judgmental dicks.

He is copying Chris Crocker, who is homosexual. I doubt a heterosexual man would take something like this that far. But we'll give him the benefit of the doubt, you just can't tell.

[Wynch]

Even if he is gay, he's creating a caricature of homosexuality that promotes a prejudice, and as consumers, when we identify that behaviour as "gay", we're exacerbating the stereotype and prejudice for those who are homosexual and try to lead a life that is not bogged down by prejudice and hate. I don't think that's really who he is at the end of the day. If it is, he's an empty-headed and self-centered twit and he's going to get a slap in the face by reality one day.

[Mediator Kam]

I agree with you both, it's kinda sad though, but as you both mentioned, it's probably a stage he is going though, a "finding himself" moment. I have seen young gays acting like this, I think it is the same thing that happens with socionics, thinking you need to be something you are not.

[munenori2]

Sounds Se-valuing, so I'd go beta NF. The Fe here is over the top to put it mildly. Is this how he always talks, moves, etc? I think if I ever encountered this guy irl, I'd back away slowly.

[Mediator Kam]

Sounds Se-valuing, so I'd go beta NF. The Fe here is over the top to put it mildly. Is this how he always talks, moves, etc? I think if I ever encountered this guy irl, I'd back away slowly.

I was going to say that the "stereotypical" gays are usually Se-valuing. I know Jeffree Star/Chris Crocker are beta for sure.

He is not so effusive irl, but yes, this has been his niche for a while now. I actually met him in december, and he was this super-quiet "girly" kid. I forgot all about him until may, when people started to notice him in school. He claims to be enlightened by some guy named Matthew Lush on youtube.

[JuJu]

The fact that people see this kind of behaviour and decide that someone is homosexual is offensive. My homosexual friends have expressed those kinds of sentiments to me on a regular basis. It's part of social stereotyping that leads to prejudice. You're right, I shouldn't speak for all homosexuals, but as long as people associate that kind of behaviour with homosexuality then homosexuals will never have respect for their lifestyle. I mean what, from that, tells you that the person is homosexual? Nothing. Additionally, it makes a mockery of homosexual lifestyles to say that that kind of display is clearly gay. It's a stereotype the same way that it's a stereotype for me to say that all Delta NFs are judgmental dicks.

That's cool that you've got some "homosexual friends" who've expressed certain sentiments to you... All I'll say to you is this: you can take offense to whatever you'd like--for your own reasons or on behalf of your "homosexual friends"--that's fine... Still, does your 'offense' negate that I perceived the person in question to be homosexual..? Furthermore, is it 'wrong' for me to express that perception?

You wanna talk 'stereotypes' and 'respect?' Let's talk about political correctness dude, and how that causes ppl to view things as 'offensive.' Let's talk about how that politically correct POV causes ppl to disrespect others who express perceptions.

Perceptions, that--by the way--are well-informed... I imagine that you would feel differently about all of this if you'd known that I'd just started dating a guy dude? You consider me prejudicing ppl against myself on this forum dude?

Next time, before you write something so self-righteous, ill-conceived, and condescending, consider that the other person may have his/her own reasons for saying what he's saying... And may hold different points of view than you (and your friends.) And furthermore, that your POV does not represent that of the entire group that you're claiming to represent. Peace.

P.S. Hostage Child put it really well in post #25.

[Wynch]

Fuck political correctness. I couldn't give a hot damn about being politically correct. I'm talking about the socializing effects that that kind of an attitude takes up. I apologize for assuming that you were going off his general attitude in your decision, clearly I'm wrong about that. It simply grates on my nerves when I see someone accepting the effects of a socialized attitude. It's the fact that people accept that his behaviour is inherently gay, and therefore judge others by that outward standard that bothers me. And I was sincere in saying that it's something that bothers my friends as well.

Perhaps things are different for you, but homosexuality here has become a really big social issue since the government legalized homosexual marriage. It's become an enormous culture clash that has increased social awareness of homosexual rights and equality, which is great, but it has also exacerbated some of the ridiculous prejudices that homophobes create to degrade and belittle others. I have friends who live lives of completely "normalcy" who get these kinds of stigmas tossed in their face just because they're homosexual, so it bothers me to see people take that and soak it in as a defining quality of being gay. It's a sexual lifestyle, that doesn't change who a person is. Sure there are some gay people who act like that. There are plenty of heterosexuals who act like that too, in their own ways. Those people are just called "metro sexuals" because they're supposedly comfortable with their sexuality.

I'm not trying to be self-righteous and you were right before, as I said, I shouldn't have said I spoke for everyone. This type of thing is just a pet peeve of mine the same way that post-feminism is. These clear-cut lines of sexuality are part of the reason for the continued socialized attitudes towards masculinity and femininity. It's my area of study. It's what I do. I have a lot of strong opinions on it, sorry that it clashes with your views, but I find it bothersome to watch society plod along in the same rut for thousands of years with the occasional impression of "social change" that is merely a band-aid solution to a bigger problem. It makes my blood boil. What I said before was rash and admittedly spoken through the haze of what I saw as injustice. You're right that I didn't consider all the possibilities in this case. I was reacting to an issue that I see cropping up time and again where I am and this time I stumbled into something different. I stand by the principle of my argument, nonetheless.

EDIT: @hostage child: I know exactly what you mean about people judging you on your individual beliefs. I'm a liberal pro-lifer, I don't think it's right, but I acknowledge the need for social networks to protect people since it's not a universally accepted belief. But there are people who assume that I'm oppressive and backwards and against women because of my beliefs. My issue is not with people who think homosexuality is wrong (though I don't really agree), it's with people who make a mockery of homosexuality in a time when that is used to attack people on a daily basis. My issue is that people reinforce those ideas by accepting something as the norm or the defining point. In the case of homosexuality, my issue is that people create a caricature of homosexuality that is used to create the norm and definition of homosexuality and then use that norm as a mockery. While individuals accepting of homosexuality may not see it as particularly bad, can see the humour in it, it reinforces the idea that homosexuality is a joke, something foolish, ridiculous, and illegitimate. That's not just a "perception". It's how socialized ideas come to be and the more that people use that prejudice to define the norm and the more that people distort that image and abuse it, the more that people are socialized into thinking that that perception is the right one. It's like brainwashing.

[Wynch]

I'm just upset that you're taking what I have to say as simply being "politically correct". There are certain things that, yes, are basically created for the purpose of being politically correct. Because in politics you can't offend people. I'm just trying to explain why this is not about being PC, it's about the creation and manipulation of social attitudes.

[JuJu]

I have a lot of strong opinions on it, sorry that it clashes with your views, but I find it bothersome to watch society plod along in the same rut for thousands of years with the occasional impression of "social change" that is merely a band-aid solution to a bigger problem. It makes my blood boil. What I said before was rash and admittedly spoken through the haze of what I saw as injustice. You're right that I didn't consider all the possibilities in this case. I was reacting to an issue that I see cropping up time and again where I am and this time I stumbled into something different. I stand by the principle of my argument, nonetheless.

I understand the impetuses behind your posts, and appreciate the beliefs underlying them--but to connote that my expressed perception (in this case) is part of/somehow contributing to "society plodding along" is a gross mis-characterization on your part... You'll note that I said nothing in my original post about the inherent characteristics of gays--only that I perceived this particular person as being gay.

Ever heard of gaydar? (a joke--ask your homosexual friends maybe..?)

What bothers me about your posts is that you tried to wage a crusade against an enemy that in this case did not exist... It seems like you just took me for 'one of those people' who views gays as ridiculous/inferior, and thus was attempting to make a joke about their stereotypical mannerisms...It seems that you never considered that I may, in fact, be part of the collective you're attempting to 'defend'--and thus have (at the very least) as valid a viewpoint regarding it as you, and different perceptions regarding social justice and sexuality that are no less valid... Or well/ill-informed.

Your "strong opinions" clash with mine only to the extent that they're self-righteous, and do not acknowledge that other ppl--even gays/bisexuals themselves, in this case--can express more light-hearted views of their sexuality and social justice and not perpetuate "[hateful] society plodding along." In fact, I'd argue that joking can be more effective at enhancing understanding between ppl of differing beliefs than arguing--the tack you took.

To quote an old Fleetwood Mac song, "I know I'm not wrong..."

All I'll ask of you--and you can do it only if you want--is to try to understand who (and by extension what) you're crusading against before you attempt to crusade again.

While individuals accepting of homosexuality may not see it as particularly bad, can see the humour in it, it reinforces the idea that homosexuality is a joke, something foolish, ridiculous, and illegitimate. That's not just a "perception". It's how socialized ideas come to be and the more that people use that prejudice to define the norm and the more that people distort that image and abuse it, the more that people are socialized into thinking that that perception is the right one. It's like brainwashing.

Again, here I'll ask that you attempt to see the other side of the coin....

@ Hostage Child: I feel you dude... Thanks for your response... It's good to know that there are ppl out there like you dude. Peace

[Mediator Kam]

Possibly starfall, he's pretty intense.

[Ritella]

i also thought EIE

[Sirena]

That's cool that you've got some "homosexual friends" who've expressed certain sentiments to you... All I'll say to you is this: you can take offense to whatever you'd like--for your own reasons or on behalf of your "homosexual friends"--that's fine... Still, does your 'offense' negate that I perceived the person in question to be homosexual..? Furthermore, is it 'wrong' for me to express that perception?

You wanna talk 'stereotypes' and 'respect?' Let's talk about political correctness dude, and how that causes ppl to view things as 'offensive.' Let's talk about how that politically correct POV causes ppl to disrespect others who express perceptions.

I agree with this. <3

[Khola aka Bee]

SEI perhaps? A bloody goofy SEI, but he seems fun

[Wynch]

I understand the impetuses behind your posts, and appreciate the beliefs underlying them--but to connote that my expressed perception (in this case) is part of/somehow contributing to "society plodding along" is a gross mis-characterization on your part... You'll note that I said nothing in my original post about the inherent characteristics of gays--only that I perceived this particular person as being gay.

Ever heard of gaydar? (a joke--ask your homosexual friends maybe..?)

What bothers me about your posts is that you tried to wage a crusade against an enemy that in this case did not exist... It seems like you just took me for 'one of those people' who views gays as ridiculous/inferior, and thus was attempting to make a joke about their stereotypical mannerisms...It seems that you never considered that I may, in fact, be part of the collective you're attempting to 'defend'--and thus have (at the very least) as valid a viewpoint regarding it as you, and different perceptions regarding social justice and sexuality that are no less valid... Or well/ill-informed.

Your "strong opinions" clash with mine only to the extent that they're self-righteous, and do not acknowledge that other ppl--even gays/bisexuals themselves, in this case--can express more light-hearted views of their sexuality and social justice and not perpetuate "[hateful] society plodding along." In fact, I'd argue that joking can be more effective at enhancing understanding between ppl of differing beliefs than arguing--the tack you took.

To quote an old Fleetwood Mac song, "I know I'm not wrong..."

All I'll ask of you--and you can do it only if you want--is to try to understand who (and by extension what) you're crusading against before you attempt to crusade again.

Again, here I'll ask that you attempt to see the other side of the coin....

@ Hostage Child: I feel you dude... Thanks for your response... It's good to know that there are ppl out there like you dude. Peace

Most of what you've said here I mentioned in my (second-last?) post, and apologized for. I admit that I was wrong about you and your place in it. I also agree that I was fighting a kind of invisible enemy, though I'm hoping you can see from my end how it would seem like you were accepting this kind of mockery as totally acceptable and normal. Yes, in some senses it's better to take a light-hearted stance. I totally understand where you're coming from, and again, I might suggest that it's different where you are then it is here. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, or claim that I somehow have more experience in this than you do (that would be pretty ridiculous), but it's a really big problem here in Canada. Seriously. I dislike the fact that you think I'm being self-righteous. You're entitled to that opinion, and I made an erroneous statement before that I apologized for. I shouldn't speak FOR people. I also have no issue with people who take a lighthearted attitude towards their sexuality. All the more power to you. Again, I have to emphasize that here in Canada we're in a sticky place wrt homosexuality. The government has basically made it a matter of "This is allowed. This is ok. Deal with it." And there are a lot of people who aren't ok with it and use these kinds of videos to undermine homosexuality. They use that kind of joking mockery of homosexuality and turn homosexuality into something that is inherently bad, stupid and ridiculous. That's where my issue lies. Again, I'm sorry for jumping on you over it, but it's a very raw issue in Canadian social politics, and something that is constantly addressed in the university circuit because it's places like a campus that the clash of social liberalism and conservative ideals (note, I'm not trying to say that one is better or worse than others) takes place in the most obvious way. That's obviously a generalization, and I'm not sure if it's the same in the US, but that's the way it is here. It's especially the way it is here in Ottawa.

People are entitled to their beliefs. People are not entitled to harrass, abuse, degrade, create libel and discriminate. That's where my issue is and that's why I acted the way I did. It's a touchy subject out here and it causes some serious and sometimes life-threatening issues for a lot of people.

[confused84]

Marry me?

This guy is clearly putting on an act. This things in no way reflects his actual personality, not to mention it seems a pretty clear demonstration of a lack of maturity, which doesn't necessarily reflect personality type. Have fun typing a ridiculous character. Pretending to be a ridiculous character =! Fe. Fe is aware of the emotional atmosphere and knows how to manipulate it. That's not funny or entertaining. It's like an idiot's attempt to mimic comedy.

Also, no self-respecting ILE would EVER enjoy the company of someone like this. It's completely offensive, demonstrates a complete lack of any kind of cleverness or wit, not to mention his voice is grating to the extreme on a personal level. Saying that you think he's gay is very offensive to homosexuals everywhere, btw. I wouldn't want to channel this "creativity". I would roll my eyes and tell him to grow up and find a real goal in life. This doesn't even have the creative potential for comedy, it's just a ridiculous imitation of the Leave Britney Alone guy.

I want to crack this kids skull. He's a waste of space.

[JuJu]

Most of what you've said here I mentioned in my (second-last?) post, and apologized for. I admit that I was wrong about you and your place in it. I also agree that I was fighting a kind of invisible enemy, though I'm hoping you can see from my end how it would seem like you were accepting this kind of mockery as totally acceptable and normal. Yes, in some senses it's better to take a light-hearted stance. I totally understand where you're coming from, and again, I might suggest that it's different where you are then it is here. I'm not trying to be a know-it-all, or claim that I somehow have more experience in this than you do (that would be pretty ridiculous), but it's a really big problem here in Canada. Seriously. I dislike the fact that you think I'm being self-righteous. You're entitled to that opinion, and I made an erroneous statement before that I apologized for. I shouldn't speak FOR people. I also have no issue with people who take a lighthearted attitude towards their sexuality. All the more power to you. Again, I have to emphasize that here in Canada we're in a sticky place wrt homosexuality. The government has basically made it a matter of "This is allowed. This is ok. Deal with it." And there are a lot of people who aren't ok with it and use these kinds of videos to undermine homosexuality. They use that kind of joking mockery of homosexuality and turn homosexuality into something that is inherently bad, stupid and ridiculous. That's where my issue lies. Again, I'm sorry for jumping on you over it, but it's a very raw issue in Canadian social politics, and something that is constantly addressed in the university circuit because it's places like a campus that the clash of social liberalism and conservative ideals (note, I'm not trying to say that one is better or worse than others) takes place in the most obvious way. That's obviously a generalization, and I'm not sure if it's the same in the US, but that's the way it is here. It's especially the way it is here in Ottawa.

People are entitled to their beliefs. People are not entitled to harrass, abuse, degrade, create libel and discriminate. That's where my issue is and that's why I acted the way I did. It's a touchy subject out here and it causes some serious and sometimes life-threatening issues for a lot of people.

Thanks for explaining this... I feel you--and I want you to know that your explanation here has changed my feelings about your comments... I understand them now, and I'm very happy that you explained them. Thanks. -Justin

[Wynch]

Thanks for explaining this... I feel you--and I want you to know that your explanation here has changed my feelings about your comments... I understand them now, and I'm very happy that you explained them. Thanks. -Justin

Glad we've come to a mutual understanding. Who says IEE/ILE can't rationalize with each other? Actually, this was perhaps a beautiful example of Fi-Ti sub-clash, lol.

Jxrtes: Ah for the relaxed politics of the west coast. I'm stuck in the liberal/conservative east-west tug-of-war and it's ugly. The ridiculous amount of Political Science students around campus and their image-conscious snobbery doesn't help either. It's a headache