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Thread: Are all Ti types obsessed with justice ?

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    machintruc's Avatar
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    Default Are all Ti types obsessed with justice ?

    I consider myself obsessed by what people deserve or not. This is probably the thing. How do you experience your ? How does it feel to have a perception of justice ? How do you feel such perception ?

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    Jarno's Avatar
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    I'm pretty obsessed with justice too.

    Also with fairness, equality and even luck/bad luck.

    I think INTJ's are more obsessed then ISTJ's. as +/- 50% of the INTJ's that I know have some kind of justice related job against 0% of the ISTJ's.

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    The Iniquitous inumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes
    But yeah, both judging functions can go away as far as I'm conerned...
    lol

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    Am I obsessed with justice? In so far that justice can even be defined, I suppose I am, but then again justice is a very obscure, vague, and although it touts itself around like it has a sense of universality, and subjective concept by which people come to conclude very different things on the same matter, although some things about it can be analyzed objectively. Thus, I think it would be more accurate to say that I am obsessed, slightly, with the idea that the matter at hand fits my subjective sense of morality and whether or not a treatment of somebody is right or wrong.

    This obsession weighs heavily upon me and includes much speculation and wonderment about the justification of whatever sort of subjective sentiments come about. It is a very drudging thing, because it feels more to be a matter of responsibility, a chore; it feels like something which by circumstance I am forced to do, rather than something which I feel passionate about and have actual feelings, as if it is not me who believes these are right, but rather I am being forced to obey them and that I need to get the matter done. I feel similarly in the matter of acting upon these sentiments, and although I know I _need_ to, it is still a burdensome matter which I feel no actual feelings towards---the actions feel empty and merely a matter of repaying some sort of debt or fulfilling some sort of obligation.

    And on the matter of whether or not this is a matter that is related to Socionics, I do believe there are certain correlations with, say, the manner in which you are obsessed and verify your beliefs. For instance, I believe a Ti type would be more likely to, say, compare the explicit, stated information concerning a matter of justice, such as asking if statements, actions, or what have you, contradict, and an Fi type would be more concerned with whether or not the matter fits their immediate emotive framework and sentiments---concerned with how the matter FEELS to them, if it FEELS right or wrong. I am not quite sure how far this idea extends or the degrees to which each person whom values one Xi function or the other would be focused upon their respective interest, but I do think that focus is there and can be seen in the common thing of perceiving Ti types as hardlined and hardnosed about such matters, because their comparison is of the objective data, and Fi types to have a moral internal, almost moralizing approach to the matter.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

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    diljs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticSonic View Post
    ow.
    This post gives me a headache.
    ILE - Ti.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    Yes ...

    On a tangent, human inconsistency is a thing that drives me crazy at times. The kind of inconsistency where a person critizes you for doing something and then goes and does the exact same thing that they criticized you for doing themselves. In essence, they are imposing a standard on you that they themselves can't even live up to and so it feels like a kind of injustice to me. While I know that it's human behaviour and that I'm just as guilty of hypocrisy occassionally myself, it still feels unfair when treated so by others, primarily because of the logical inconsistency and the lack of concern they show for it.
    It's not just a matter of logical inconsistency, but of being a behaviorial inconsistency.

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    Mariano Rajoy's Avatar
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    Justice is very interesting, but I wouldn't say I am obsessed with it.

    Justice and the just person can't be seperated.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    diljs's Avatar
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    When referring to types are you only referring to Ti Primary? I'm Ti creative, and I've gotta say, unless we're talking about a different type of justice, I don't value it much.

    The problem is I don't believe an accurate system for determining what people deserve exists. Certainly the justice system of nearly any country has gaping flaws, and it's impossible to apply blanket rules to every situation without error. I suppose I could create my own "Judge Dredd" type of system, except I don't trust myself either.

    While I do find the system unsettling, irritating, and (at times) indifferent to logic and what is "right", I generally tend to avoid such situations entirely. I'd much rather go do something else than argue with someone about whether the right thing was done in a situation.

    Injustice happens constantly and I simply have to work around it and try to have some fun.
    ILE - Ti.

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    well lesseee to answer the thread question, am i obsessed with justice? not obsessed. but i'd say i'm more likely to focus on facts, data, and what it says on a piece of paper before feelings and relationships.

    as far as the justice system? doesn't really work in my opinion. it's like a guideline....that has to be pushed and bent to accomodate real life people and situations. this is usually accomplished through relationships and through strong advocacy, persuasion, and argumentation. there's actually almost nothing worse than getting caught up in a system, particularly the justice system.

    having said that, it's the best we've been able to do as a society so far with people whose behavior harms others. i don't know of many better ways of handling crimes in a large, impersonal society.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    See MysticSonic's post for my thoughts on the subject.
    ILE
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    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Well, I don't like how valuing individuals can have double standards for people who are close to them. types can have double standards (like for the people who give them ) but here I consider it a failure of the individual to properly systematize his views in accordance with his reality. (particularly gammas) build their systems with the double-standard in mind. But yeah, both judging functions can go away as far as I'm conerned...

    I also consider it the duty of the state to rehabilitate individuals who have serious problems. I don't believe in swift justice, as much as I'm viscerally desiring to harm an individual. I may not be Ti-ego however.

    As for who should be punished, see my Avy.
    I don't think that justice is exclusively a thing- being a gamma i often view justice as giving people what they deserve based on their violation of principles. However, it is not completely inflexible (for me at least, perhaps because my is my creative function) in the sense that I try to understand the motives behind what people did... u can violate principles sometimes without being completely malevolent- u can sometimes do it unknowingly or possibly for some better purpose (i.e. the ends justifies the means)
    ESFp-Fi sub
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    Justice, I think, is primarily meant to placate the injured subjective side of one's nature. Really, though, justice is so natural to me that I don't really need to think about it. I just do it and demand it from others uniequivocably. For there not to be justice means that human behavior cannot be predicted at all, and correspondingly, one's access to resources cannot be assured from a social standpoint: what I have today may be stolen tomorrow. Justice is somewhat of a massively social reflex: if you wrong someone then everyone will be out to make you pay for what you have done. The problem happens when wrongs that the mind processes as equivalently grave are not treated as such by society: the majority opinion rules and not everyone's justice is respected. However, these justices are not respected because they lead to endless anxiety. Justice allows me to displace anxiety out of my mind; if the justice of the majority did not carry over that of the minority, then the majority would be plagued with omnipresent anxiety which would impair their mental function.

    I meant this in trait terms and not in terms of race or ethnicity; as most people understand, majority justice is universal across races. But to summarize, Ti justice may have something to do with weak Se/Ne, and anxiety over the same.

    But are all Ti types just? That seems doubtful. I think justice proper is the imposition of enforced equity/Fi, FTW.

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    before they need to make carpayments, i'd say yes. afterwards, preoccupied is a good word.

    oh.. EDIT: i didn't realize it wasn't 'All INTjs'. Then the answer is no. not all Ti types are obsessed with justice.
    Last edited by Ms. Kensington; 07-08-2008 at 04:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    I consider myself obsessed by what people deserve or not. This is probably the thing. How do you experience your ? How does it feel to have a perception of justice ? How do you feel such perception ?
    Ti Dominants?
    Ti Egos?...or
    Ti Valueing Types (BETA, ALPHA)??


    Keeping it simple....Ti Dominants...No.
    ENTP:wink:ALPHA

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    Quote Originally Posted by kensi View Post
    Ti Dominants?
    Ti Egos?...or
    Ti Valueing Types (BETA, ALPHA)??


    Keeping it simple....Ti Dominants...No.
    ILE, LII, SLE, LSI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    No. I love how he thinks. I love how he explains. I love how he fleshes out his viewpoint and gives parameters as to exactly where the boundaries are and how everything is contained. I love how there's pretty much no doubt at the end of his little blurb of how organized this particular piece of his world is. I just love precise Ti so much. I envy how other people use it with ease. I always think there's a magic secret that's going to teach me to organize my thoughts like that.

    whoa.

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    ah... edited my post. i would say that i pretty much agree with mystic but i think you are all sick of hearing that.

    i could add that it is a very strange experience when INTjs try to actually believe that things are wrong. A sense of outrage is only directed at a breach of justice.. an abstract concept. It feels very dirty also to say something is wrong without that sense of outrage as well. it must be certain. So although they feel and can have morals, the experience of them and the way they came to be is unique to a Ti type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    ILE, LII, SLE, LSI.

    ILE would probably be at the top of the list and SLE at the bottom.
    ENTP:wink:ALPHA

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