Beta-Delta Quadra Relations and Interaction Examples

[jewels]

so I was at a get together tonight with:

INFp,
INFp/ESTp couple

and:

ENFp/ISTp couple

and me (ENFp)

It was really interesting to see the interaction. When one INFp would go into the depths of meaning about a topic (that was over my head), the other INFp would "understand completely." And I was confused at how they both undertstood the layers of meaning in the topic so quickly.

Then one INFp would say some almost put downs about their career, and the ESTp (who barely knew this INFp) would jump in with encouragement, like "you're amazing! Just amazing at this!" and did it so naturally.

Then when the ENFp reacted badly to something the ESTp said -- usually something impulsive like I'm going to do X huge decision now -- I would echo what the other ENFp said, which was basically something like "hmm...maybe might want to think that over first...etc."

However, the other ENFp was much more blunt than I was, and at first glance I actually thought she was either ISTj, or ENFj. But after we typed everyone, I realized that her thoughts made perfect sense to me, even if she was more blunt. The ESTp had turned typing into a party game at this point, which was actually really fun.

The INFp and ISTp (the two guys, both in dual relationships) got along very well and kept going outside and seemed to almost be whispering or something. Really understood each other there.

Whenever the INFp tried to talk to me, I really tried so hard but couldn't seem to wrap my mind around his thoughts, and when I could I usually disagreed w/ him. However, the other INFp I tend to agree with easily, so may be a personality difference.

I didn't even realize the ISTp was there really and assumed he was ISFj until we actually figured out what everyone was. I was surprised at how I completely had no social interest in him, since I'm always on the look-out for ISTp friends, and here is one right in the same room and I didn't even notice! Duh!!!

But then we played a game and he helped me figure out a math part (of course w/o even stopping to make me feel like an idiot -- which we've all discussed as being an additional cool thing about ISTPs! I was having trouble w/ just about every mechanical details, such as shuffling cards, etc, and he either just did it himself or acted like it was no big deal. Meanwhile, the other ENFp is saying "omg I have so much trouble w/ that too!"

After playing this game, I was like "wow!" And at that point his personality really stood out to me. So perhaps the ENFp/ISTp isn't so much a spoken thing. I can't figure out how these duals met though, because this ISTp is nearly silent and the ENFp girl isn't overly talkative until she feels comfortable.

All in all, I was surprised how well Delta and Beta got along! I guess I shouldn't have been, but on the forum it can seem like the quadras are SO different and it was nice to see everyone just get along so well and have fun!

Anyone else have beta/delta stories or anything?

Oh, and one more thing about the ISTp...my first thought when trying to type him was "you're difficult." And everyone laughed and said they agreed, that he was difficult! And I said "oh no! I meant, difficult to type!" Where as, the INFp, I hadn't even asked him any questions when I said I thought he was an INFp and when I described it he completely agreed, so maybe it's more difficult to type your own dual?

[thePirate]

Yeah, I'm pretty much surrounded by betas.

Mostly women.

Nothing better then one with a healthy sex drive

Anyway, their tons of fun. Great friends. Very attractive, love the passion they emanate.

However, I couldn't see myself 'going the distance' with one.

Although, my ex does come to mind...albeit it more an emotional judgement then anything.

& I've heard that, supposedly, you don't notice/aren't attracted to your dual at first for whatever reason, which remains true of me. Admittedly, I have yet to REALLY interact with my duals, however past acquaintances don't leave me inclined to do so.

[xyz]

heh, give us a chance!

[Sirena]

heh, give us a chance!

YOU give US a chance!

@jewel: I enjoyed reading about your interactions tonight. Did these people know anything about socionics or did you just bring up the subject? I find that I tend to share this kind of thing with people, some show interest and some don't.

[jewels]

YOU give US a chance!

@jewel: I enjoyed reading about your interactions tonight. Did these people know anything about socionics or did you just bring up the subject? I find that I tend to share this kind of thing with people, some show interest and some don't.

Well I didn't bring it up, but my ESTp friend knew how into it (basically obsessed) I am, so she insisted I type everyone (in exchange for some other people doing magic tricks for me).

I've typed people for the last few years though, usually when I get bored at social events, or bars. Everyone wants to know about themselves so I think if it comes across like a fun thing, people are like, dying to know.

It's fun because sometimes I can just look at someone and be like "omg you're ____!" And other times I have a hunch, but ask them questions, or am wrong, etc. So it gets to be basically a fun guessing game and everyone gets involved. I think it's how you bring it up, and if it's clear that it's just a "for fun" kind of thing, people really like it. I've never discussed it "academically" or even mentioned the functions (except w/ very close friends). It's more "are you more focused on the present moment?" kind of questions and then I throw out a one-sentence type descrption to see if it rings true. So to them, it seems like I'm a fortune teller or something, to go from "do you plan things out?" To "I'll bet you don't like long-term obligations and routine and love adventure, am I right?" "omg! How did you know?"

I also think people just like all that attention.

Also, the way people react to being put on the spot and how they answer the questions tells you a lot also, e.g., that's how I knew the INFp was that type. He answered in very circular theory-focused hard to pin down, open-ended way and seemed uncomfortable with all eyes on him.

It doesn't seem weird to the other people if it just seems like a fun party trick, but I still find it fascinating to see which people are obviously a type and which are a complete mystery to me.

[jewels]

& I've heard that, supposedly, you don't notice/aren't attracted to your dual at first for whatever reason, which remains true of me. Admittedly, I have yet to REALLY interact with my duals, however past acquaintances don't leave me inclined to do so.

Yeah, I wish i could figure this out...how the duals seem invisible at first, yet you want to find them. It's almost like you have to communicate in a completely different way. Like for ENFps, maybe it's a matter of being open to "hearing" actions and sensory stuff, versus usual talking? If anyone figures this out, let me know.

[Sirena]

Jewel, you sound so much like me with the whole fascination and obsession with observing people and noticing patters, etc. Your approach definitely sounds like a lot of fun, especially if you're managing to get something in return (magic tricks), despite the fact that you're enjoying the whole thing just as much. It's like getting paid for having fun!

[BLauritson]

Yeah, I wish i could figure this out...how the duals seem invisible at first, yet you want to find them. It's almost like you have to communicate in a completely different way. Like for ENFps, maybe it's a matter of being open to "hearing" actions and sensory stuff, versus usual talking? If anyone figures this out, let me know.

I think if you've spent a lot of time in early life without the presence of duals, then purely through conditioning I suppose you become less aware of your need for your dual, although that's not to say the need becomes any less. My advice is know how to spot your dual (which obviously helps if you already know or have known them) and simply try and condition your mind to look out for them. It sounds like more work than it actually is. And also try to avoid thinking that your dual is some sort of rare or mysterious type, since then you'll probably end up looking too hard and missing what's right there in front of you. It gets easier with practice. I know because I've trained my ESFp detector pretty well since learning about Socionics

EDIT: Come to think of it, I can't help but wonder if it's that whole myth that finding a dual is difficult that actually causes more people to experience difficulty in trying to find their dual. If that makes any sense whatsoever. Bah I dunno.

[jewels]

Jewel, you sound so much like me with the whole fascination and obsession with observing people and noticing patters, etc. Your approach definitely sounds like a lot of fun, especially if you're managing to get something in return (magic tricks), despite the fact that you're enjoying the whole thing just as much. It's like getting paid for having fun!

aww thanks! Yeah they were some pretty cool magic tricks, so socionics can be useful Do you ever type your friends?

[jewels]

I experienced a not so pretty relationship once. When I was an undergrad, I hung out with two different groups of friends. One was mainly a Delta group, and one was a Beta group. In the Delta group there was an INFj. We confided in each other and did similar subjects; while in the Beta group there was an ENFj and we started hanging out because we both played guitar and kind of started a band. (Also, I was in awe of her FeNi, hehe.) Anyway, all of a sudden, INFj girl became jealous of my friendship with ENFj girl. This really stunned me, because I just presumed that other people (including INFj girl) would appreciate ENFj girl in the way that I did. I didn't know anything about socionics back then. It was classic intertype relations at play though.

hmm. that's interesting -- I wonder if INFjs get jealous pretty easily, because I've had that happen w/ INFjs also. Maybe because they have a few close friends vs. more aquaintances? Also, the INTj I know has huge amounts of aquaintances -- that is your type, right? Or am I remembering that wrong?

[jewels]

I think if you've spent a lot of time in early life without the presence of duals, then purely through conditioning I suppose you become less aware of your need for your dual, although that's not to say the need becomes any less. My advice is know how to spot your dual (which obviously helps if you already know or have known them) and simply try and condition your mind to look out for them. It sounds like more work than it actually is. And also try to avoid thinking that your dual is some sort of rare or mysterious type, since then you'll probably end up looking too hard and missing what's right there in front of you. It gets easier with practice. I know because I've trained my ESFp detector pretty well since learning about Socionics

EDIT: Come to think of it, I can't help but wonder if it's that whole myth that finding a dual is difficult that actually causes more people to experience difficulty in trying to find their dual. If that makes any sense whatsoever. Bah I dunno.

interesting. Like a self-fulfilling prophecy I'd guess. That could be very true! Only recently have I even been able to spot ISTps at ALL and this is after years of knowing about this stuff. Maybe it is a matter of not trying to analyze everything

Hod did you train your "ESFp detector?" I'm just curious if it could be helpful.

[Sirena]

aww thanks! Yeah they were some pretty cool magic tricks, so socionics can be useful Do you ever type your friends?

All the time.

[jewels]

heh, give us a chance!

to give you a chance, we have to first locate you in a room. Easier said than done! After all this time, I still am mistyping ISTps as ISFj...geez. I wish they would just wear a sign.

[xyz]

to give you a chance, we have to first locate you in a room. Easier said than done! After all this time, I still am mistyping ISTps as ISFj...geez. I wish they would just wear a sign.

We're the invisible ones. Or the ones who seem like we're bored when we're really having a good time

[Sirena]

We're the invisible ones. Or the ones who seem like we're bored when we're really having a good time

Well how the hell are we supposed to see you if you're invisible, Invisible Man????

[jessica129]

to give you a chance, we have to first locate you in a room. Easier said than done! After all this time, I still am mistyping ISTps as ISFj...geez. I wish they would just wear a sign.

I think I probobly come off a lot more ISFJ than ISTP in real life than any other type but it's probobly the most type furthest from my true type. I've asked multiple people to "type" me and that's the first one they always say. I don't know why.

[Exodus]

I think I probobly come off a lot more ISFJ than ISTP in real life than any other type but it's probobly the most type furthest from my true type. I've asked multiple people to "type" me and that's the first one they always say. I don't know why.

People who don't know anything about socionics?

[jessica129]

Yeah. But in a way it's a little better i think. Sometimes I think some people over-analyze things here a bit.

[Park]

People who don't know anything about socionics?

LMAO

[misutii]

All in all, I was surprised how well Delta and Beta got along! I guess I shouldn't have been, but on the forum it can seem like the quadras are SO different and it was nice to see everyone just get along so well and have fun!

I liked your description of everything, it was really well articulated. btw I can see how ESTp, INFp, ENFp, ISTp would end up working, notice no conflictors! Also all irrationals so easy to have fun. I think ENFj, ISTj, ESTj, INFj would probably end up pretty positive too, albeit a very different atmosphere (everything meticulously planned 1 month before it happens lol)

[Park]

I think ENFj, ISTj, ESTj, INFj would probably end up pretty positive too, albeit a very different atmosphere (everything meticulously planned 1 month before it happens lol)

Hahaha, lol, that actually reminds me of myself somewhat.

Te ftw?

[BLauritson]

Hod did you train your "ESFp detector?" I'm just curious if it could be helpful.

Hmm...that's a good question actually . I think it was more of a side effect of just learning to type people and I've been lucky enough to encounter quite a few ESFps since I started learning about Socionics. I tend to speed-type people also, that is make an early guess about their type and see how it plays out (part of this is based on resemblance to people I've typed previously, which is usually accurate, but not always). But yeah, I think learning to identify particular things which stand out from different types and things like that can help. I think ultimately it's experience more than anything which can help you. Typing's a skill like any other; the more you practice the better you get at it. And just keep in mind that it's possible for someone of any type to be in any situation, even though some types are less likely to be in certain places than others.

An example of the speed-typing thing I mentioned is that last Monday when I went shopping, when I went to the checkout, the girl at the till looked similar to my ESFp ex, which made me wonder if she might be ESFp also. She was quite talkative, although it seemed like she was just saying what was on her mind rather than thinking it through; i.e. talking on impulse as it were. That and I was pretty stressed out from work that day and somehow in that short space of time she managed to cheer me up. So I left the encounter thinking "Yep, she was ESFp". It's very little information to go on, but I'm still confident enough to say that based on that information and my gut feeling about the whole thing, I'm confident that it was an ESFp I'd spoken to then. It's a largely intuitive thing really, but it can work if you practice it enough. Obviously you won't have 100% accuracy, but the more you do it the more accurate you get. But I'm rambling, so I shall stop myself now

[dattebayo]

I don't get it. I'm almost certain that I am delta. But I have a lot of friends that are Beta. It could just be my typing that is off, but the betas that I have come across in this forum, redbaron, Mimosa and a couple of others I can't remember the names of seem really cool as well.

Are Beta-Delta relations really doomed or is it just in theory?

[duality is cringe]

Your misunderstanding stems from the fact that you falsely perceive quadra conflict as the equivalent of a "doomed" relationship.

[dattebayo]

OK but the how pronounced is this conflict? More than with the other quadras?

[duality is cringe]

Not being a member of the Alpha or Gamma quadras, I couldn't say for sure how pronounced it may be in comparison.

Perhaps someone more knowledgable on the subject will post, but from my point of view, conflict often results in or occurs through misunderstanding of another's motives, reasoning, and expecting or wanting different responses than what's being received. Conflict can also occur through different ideas of what constitutes appropiate behavior in certain situations. All of which are things that can be worked through and will not necessarily prevent a friendship or bond of some sort from taking place.

FWIW, I've known a few IEE males who've been very attracted to and in admiration of other SLE and LSI male's use of .

[duality is cringe]

Why is there so much space under your sig?

[Minde]

I have more than a couple good, positive, mutually-beneficial relationships with people who (I am pretty sure) are Beta. It's just that I probably wouldn't want to marry any of them, not that I can't work with and get along well with them. Really cool people come in all shapes and quadras.

[dattebayo]

cool post. I like the part about misunderstandings. Makes sense. I was under the impression that Betas and deltas simply couldn't stand each other. Maybe some Betas would like to comment on this

My SLE sister is soooo cool. Sometimes I'll try and mimic her- In fact I have been a clone of her for the first eighteen years of my life

[dattebayo]

Why is there so much space under your sig?

dude, I never noticed 0_0

don't blame me. Blame weak Si

[Satan]

I don't get it. I'm almost certain that I am delta. But I have a lot of friends that are Beta. It could just be my typing that is off, but the betas that I have come across in this forum, redbaron, Mimosa and a couple of others I can't remember the names of seem really cool as well.

Are Beta-Delta relations really doomed or is it just in theory?

infp's are an enigma they get along with everyone.

[Minde]

Why is there so much space under your sig?

Because of the sidebar with the avatar and name and other extraneous stuff - it pushes the bottom of the entire post down. And when a sig is short, the effect is exaggerated.

[dattebayo]

oh thank you. Good thing I read this before trying to change it

[Park]

Because of the sidebar with the avatar and name and other extraneous stuff - it pushes the bottom of the entire post down. And when a sig is short, the effect is exaggerated.

And DeAnte calls himself an Si type?

[duality is cringe]

And DeAnte calls himself an Si type?

Two days ago my IEE co-worker had a bad case of the hiccups. He said he'd had them all day when I asked him about it. I then told him that "water is the cure." He assured me that he'd been drinking water all day to no avail, but decided to take my advice anyway. I noticed him picking up a small paper cup (the kind accompanied by water coolers) and told him that he needed a full glass in order for the process to work. He said "okay" and drank a full glass. A minute later, he reapproaches me to tell me that the hiccups were finally gone and that I was right all along.

Does this give me my Si street cred back?

[Park]

Does this give me my Si street cred back?

Hmm, I don't know, I think Si would have noticed earlier.

[dattebayo]

I've noticed the lack of Beta posters. They hate us

[Trevor]

Really cool people come in all shapes and quadras.

Yes, that's it. And if you can get along with people of various types then you're cool.

[hellothere]

one of my good friends is an ENFj. She's a bit freaking insane/frustrating/regularly cringeworthy, but still, we're really good friends. I also think the INFps you listed on this board are pretty cool. (i think i'm INFj btw). I think especially if they have your dual's temperament (Ej in my case, Ip in yours dattebayo), people from your opposite quadra don't have to be hard to get along with.

[unefille]

Things are easier with your own quadra, but that is by no means a structural constraint of any form. For example, my closest friends would be LSI and IEI, but my friends are by no means limited to Beta.

Actually, on an individual level, I really don't have much of a problem getting along with Deltas, including SLIs. The inter-quadra friction arises between Beta GROUPS and Delta GROUPS. I find a group of Deltas and their mode of interaction confusing, inexplicable and often alienating - I'm sure Deltas feel the same way about a group of Betas. A lot of these conflicting preferences in communication can be mitigated for on the individual one-to-one level simply because what dictates the mode of interaction isn't communication styles alone, but mutual interest and interests.