IEIs/INFps idealizing particular relationships and remembering disappointments

[aka-kitsune]

As a result of the other recent IEI thread, I began thinking how I idealize particular relationships and place expectations upon them. zenbrat's statement about IEIs "remembering disappointments" really struck me as a core truth for me.

While I hesitate to impose upon anyone here for advice, I wondered whether any of the other IEIs might be able to share how they handle this specific aspect of their personality.

Some background details: I have connections with people that I really don't worry about. I enjoy seeing them, but don't sweat that I don't see them or stay in close touch with them. I also have closer relationships with others that have become trusted friends, based on our common goals, interests, and activities. I speak with them a couple times a week and might see them weekly as well. Then there are occasionally the more difficult connections that I would like to see move to a closer bond, but have trouble managing my expectations in this regard. I always seem to be left wanting more and being disappointed that things aren't progressing as I often yearn for them to be.

In most cases, my attention is riveted by the difficult One and I have to restrain myself from working harder to make an impact. I assume that in most cases, it's certainly easier to develop a relationship with someone who is alike yourself in many ways. On the same page in terms of how events and situations are handled, values the same experiences, sees things similarly. But often, I seek out and establish a connection with someone entirely different than me in many regards, as I feel compelled to challenge myself and my conventions. There is usually a strong attraction to something they may embody, something I believe fated to be, something about them I want to cultivate in myself...

At any rate, I'm at this place yet again. There's an IEE guy I am friends with (who I'm actually quite attracted to as well, but that's neither here nor there) with whom I always find challenges my ability to handle disappointment. His job (IT) can be often very unpredictable; his life is packed full. We recently made plans which seemed to be pretty stable, but at the 11th hour, he called to cancel. This has occurred a few times before, and as a result to his active social life and outdoor pursuits (like rockclimbing, etc), he's so extremely difficult to pin down. I'm disappointed when he cancels plans, because he doesn't attempt to reschedule even though he often attempts to reassure me of his good intent. I also get the distinct impression this kind of thing happens so often, he's gotten pretty familiar with how to placate the people he disappoints (telling them he'll make it up, etc. and showing concern and interest in their feelings). He's right there with the consolation prize ("I'll pay next time!!").

OK... so I don't want to fault or "black mark" him. I realize people may have jobs that may preempt their personal lives occasionally. But I can't seem to help being disappointed. The worst is that the next time we manage to set plans, I'm worrying even more all along they're just going to fall through again. I hate the last minute cancellation more than anything. Such an emotional letdown! One of the things I like to do is anticipate getting together, I look forward to it immensely. But with a history of having these things fall through, I just find myself dreading the potential frustration. I hate that I'm not easygoing about this kind of thing. He certainly doesn't worry that everything will eventually work out sometime in the future (he's also a 7, btw) but I'm always left feeling that I've been deprived of a chance to bond with him.

I know this must be related to leading a great deal as well. I hate "not knowing" whether things might or might not work out, I can't stand being in an ambiguous spot regarding plans and arrangements. He's very open with all of that stuff and prefers the last minute, down to the wire kind of thing. He's OK with whatever way the tree falls. I want to know so that I can get out of the way. (Metaphorically speaking!)

Seems I certainly need lessons in spontaneity and I've chosen myself a pretty apt mentor...

How does the IEI manage the tendency to expect and not take disappointments to heart? Any help appreciated.

[Satan]

I can't imagine and IEI not taking disappointments to heart. They're meant to rise and fall, are they not?

[thePirate]

Yeah, so a common trend I'ved noticed with INFPS is a fear of things they can't control. Ask yourself if that's somewhere inside you, realizing that on it's own can be huge. This leads to outcome orientation, which sucks balls.

So here's the thing:

Disappointments come from being outcome vs proccess oriented.

Enjoy the proccess of whatever situation you are in.


Outcome Orientation:

1.You beat yourself up over not meeting expectations
2. You learn nothing
3. You dislike the situation you are in.

Proccess Orientation =

1.You realize that you learn/get something from each situation
2. You ENJOY the possibilities this situation has given you
3. You learn from each situation


Becoming disappointed over attachment to an outcome is IMPRACTICAL, and ultimately SELF-DEFEATING.

The more you see disappointments the they more will manifest around you.

[Satan]

"Yeah, so a common trend I'ved noticed with INFPS is a fear of things they can't control. "

I have that fear too. Does that make me an INFp?

[aka-kitsune]

No IEI takers, eh? Darn. Really thought I could get some other perspectives and perhaps some affirmation for one of my very soft spots.

[Satan]

you've finally found yourself, congratulations!

Does tha mean I have to kill myself now? I'm so emo.

[redbaron]

Yeah, so a common trend I'ved noticed with INFPS is a fear of things they can't control. Ask yourself if that's somewhere inside you, realizing that on it's own can be huge. This leads to outcome orientation, which sucks balls.

So here's the thing:

Disappointments come from being outcome vs proccess oriented.

Enjoy the proccess of whatever situation you are in.


Outcome Orientation:

1.You beat yourself up over not meeting expectations
2. You learn nothing
3. You dislike the situation you are in.

Proccess Orientation =

1.You realize that you learn/get something from each situation
2. You ENJOY the possibilities this situation has given you
3. You learn from each situation


Becoming disappointed over attachment to an outcome is IMPRACTICAL, and ultimately SELF-DEFEATING.

The more you see disappointments the they more will manifest around you.

Yes, I think this is true. I do tend to become easily attached to an outcome. I enjoy the anticipation of something so when it goes a different direction and it's out of my control, I panic and then get disappointed. I can be pretty inflexible which is bad. I'm working on it though.

@ aka: I had a friendship for a couple of years that was sometimes frustrating because we didn't have much time together and there was nothing we could do about it. But for awhile I'd get pretty annoyed (not with him, just with the situation) whenever anything would happen that would preclude our time together. I was just disappointed that we couldn't spend that time when we had so little time to begin with. Finally I realized that I was going to stop counting on that time and start enjoying whatever came my way, start living in the moment and not expecting anything and be thankful and happy for whatever we had. And from that time on, things were a lot more fun and I was free of that feeling of needing to be in control and needing to count the minutes we were spending together. It became more about quality and less about quantity. My need for control was putting tension into the friendship that I think he sensed. So when that went away, everything improved. This friendship is over now but this was one really good thing that I learned from it, among other things. I sometimes think that we attract (and are attracted to) people with qualities that help us develop the areas we need to work on in our own lives. Like you said, maybe this friendship is helping you learn to deal with disappointment. So it might be a good opportunity to work on that (which obviously you're doing already!)

[misutii]

hey aka I think I kind of understand where you're coming from here, especially since I've had an ex-gf who was, you guessed it, ENFp.

From your post it seems like what you're seeking from him is Ti and he's not giving it to you. He's not giving it to you because it's not something he really has enough of to give. In fact Ti is his PoLR, imagine someone wanting you to give them Te? ahhhhh

So realistically your options are these.

1) Press for a more intimate relationship - the realistic consequence of this option is that you'll get the relationship, because INFps and ENFps are generally attracted to each other, but prepare yourself because this thing will have a life of 2-6 months max. It probably won't end badly, in fact INFps and ENFps are completely capable of pulling off the whole "let's just be friends" thing for at least a couple months afterwards. I don't know if you're like me but in the long-term I haven't kept any exes around and wouldn't want to, time to move on. So from my experience it will end not too badly, in fact you'll still admire each other and wish each other the best in the future, but you'll probably lose him as a friend forever.

2) Keep the friendship. In order to do this realistically you're going to have to find another subject (person) of interest. You'll see the ENFp every once and a while and every time you see each other it will be great because there'll be lots of things to talk about. Also once you find someone else (hopefully someone more compatible with you) you can get rid of this negative tension.

In regards to disappointment I don't think I can help you too much, personally I try to keep my expectations of other people extremely low, borderline cynicism, so instead of being disappointed I'm pleasantly surprised. The problem is once you're pleasantly surprised enough times you get used to it and start expecting more so... you get the picture. Anyways hope this helped at least somewhat, I'm not sure how much being male has influenced my outview but let me say one thing, I've learned the hard way not to idealize women (not from an ENFp though!) lol

[consentingadult]

[consentingadult]

and when you're finished:

[Wynch]

This book is so dumb.

THANK-YOU. The fact that something like that hits the best-seller list makes me want to vomit.

[Blaze]

and when you're finished:

you go! awesome.

[Blaze]

regarding last minute cancellations: FUCK THAT NOISE. it's totally disrespectful of YOUR TIME. i'm so sure we can all just come up with alternative plans on a dime????

girl, let him know that it's NOT OK. maybe he's not that into you maybe you're not that into him, but you know what? you need to have your time respected. last minute get togethers are awesome...last minute cancellations suck the big one, as the teenagers say.

you know the idea is that you are learning about what you need in a relationship and now you have to figure out how to get your needs met here. if he can't agree to some basics with you, then that's his problem. what self respecting chick is going to put up with last minute cancellations?? nobody. so it's not like you're asking for more than basic respect and responsibility on his part.

now. go get your needs met. :-)

[FDG]

Yeah, last minute cancellations can be perhaps okay if done once or twice for serious reasons, but I can't see how it could be acceptable to cancel something because you have found something "better" to do; especially if you're cancelling something where you're determinant (ex. if I cancel going to a party where there are many people, I would not feel bad; but if I cancel going out with a particular friend that I know will do nothing if I cancel, then it's extremely bad)

[marooned]

deleted

[Blaze]

i guess loki but i'm an Ne dominant and i don't do last minute cancellations as a matter of course. i'm more likely to keep plans with you but try to talk you into doing something interesting.

[xyz]

i guess loki but i'm an Ne dominant and i don't do last minute cancellations as a matter of course. i'm more likely to keep plans with you but try to talk you into doing something interesting.

you slick talker you

[marooned]

i guess loki but i'm an Ne dominant and i don't do last minute cancellations as a matter of course. i'm more likely to keep plans with you but try to talk you into doing something interesting.

I thought I might get in trouble for saying that (as well I should).

[Blaze]

I thought I might get in trouble for saying that (as well I should).

yeah but what you're saying might very well be true for a young, male IEE. i'm an old, female ILE. heh heh.

[Blaze]

you slick talker you

hahaha i'm thinking that SLI and SEI would be most receptive to attempts to spin interest out of my wacky ideas?? :-)

[aka-kitsune]

But if everything else is secondary to level of interest, then you would be in a place of canceling all sorts of arrangements and commitments with others when something "more interesting" arises. And I've found that I simply can't work with that (that I know of, and I wish I were different).

Agreed on the overview of types, pursuing things according to level of interest, however...

I suppose I didn't really make it crystal clear that I'm confident this individual has never cancelled plans because something "more interesting" arises. He doesn't drop arrangements on a whim. What has always been the crux of cancelled plans between us is his work demands. As I indicated, he works db mgmt for a large institution; he often has to stay late or work weekends during a crunch for upgrading software, servers, etc. And it can be very unpredictable (although I'd think that's probably what makes it tolerable for him). He's explained that work can be insane for weeks at a time to the extent that he can only take vacation certain times of the year. I believe him when he says he's delayed with work; I have no basis not to trust him.

We've discussed this actually, because when I was younger, I was involved with someone who held out committing to plans because smth more "interesting" might come along. The current person found that idea extremely shady. He mentioned that while he's sometimes slow to commit to an arrangement, he fully intends to honor it when he does.

He's also said that he doesn't want to refuse to make plans because things can open up suddenly. That said, he doesn't follow up very well. It's usually fallen to me to be the "proposer".

[xyz]

hahaha i'm thinking that SLI and SEI would be most receptive to attempts to spin interest out of my wacky ideas?? :-)

Most receptive? I dig anyone who can even do that. If you like doing that.... well.. wow.

[marooned]

Got it. I was partially just going with the thoughts that entered my mind.

[aka-kitsune]

Yes, I think this is true. I do tend to become easily attached to an outcome. I enjoy the anticipation of something so when it goes a different direction and it's out of my control, I panic and then get disappointed. I can be pretty inflexible which is bad. I'm working on it though.

Absolutely.

It most definitely is a lack of control thing. I seem to place myself in these kinds of "learning situations" to test my ability to learn to cope with ambiguity. I want to be more flexible and not be so focused on outcomes.

I sometimes think that we attract (and are attracted to) people with qualities that help us develop the areas we need to work on in our own lives. Like you said, maybe this friendship is helping you learn to deal with disappointment. So it might be a good opportunity to work on that (which obviously you're doing already!)

I agree!

[Blaze]

Most receptive? I dig anyone who can even do that. If you like doing that.... well.. wow.

sweeet then. too bad my Ne's been sort of dampened over the last few years....

[xyz]

sweeet then. too bad my Ne's been sort of dampened over the last few years....

I think you just need to stay away from the Ne haters. It'll come back.

[Blaze]

hope so! at least i think so...

[zenbrat]

In most cases, my attention is riveted by the difficult One and I have to restrain myself from working harder to make an impact. I assume that in most cases, it's certainly easier to develop a relationship with someone who is alike yourself in many ways. On the same page in terms of how events and situations are handled, values the same experiences, sees things similarly. But often, I seek out and establish a connection with someone entirely different than me in many regards, as I feel compelled to challenge myself and my conventions. There is usually a strong attraction to something they may embody, something I believe fated to be, something about them I want to cultivate in myself...

I think this issue relates more to the core issues for E4 - a nagging feeling of being "unacceptable" and/or misunderstood. In my case, the Difficult One usually taps into some area of my psyche that is still very sensitive to feeling shamed (for what I really am) or misunderstod. They may criticize my over-sensitivity or not openly show acceptance. Anything that reads as criticism for something that seems central to my SELF is received as an emotional death blow. I die a little inside. But, it makes me look at myself, work on my perceived short-comings and grow a little bit from the experience.

I know this must be related to leading a great deal as well. I hate "not knowing" whether things might or might not work out, I can't stand being in an ambiguous spot regarding plans and arrangements. He's very open with all of that stuff and prefers the last minute, down to the wire kind of thing. He's OK with whatever way the tree falls. I want to know so that I can get out of the way. (Metaphorically speaking!)

Seems I certainly need lessons in spontaneity and I've chosen myself a pretty apt mentor...

I hate feeling like someone is keeping me on hold just in case "something better" comes along. Whenever someone is unwilling to make concrete plans with me, I can interpret this as being dangled on the second-string. Ne dominant people can do this in order to maintain room to change-up as things come to their attention, but Betans do this as well to maintain control and avoid showing that it actually matters .

I have learned to just keep things open for "tentative plans" and go on about my life with the same rights and priviledges to control my time. If the person doesn't make plans with me within 48 hours of the invitation, I am free to make other plans - and I do! Of course, I apologize and let them know, "well, I didn't get a definate answer from you so I wasn't sure. Want to plan something for X day?" That lets people know that you have shit to do and will NOT being waiting around.

The same applies to dating relationships. My ESTp was dragging ass on commitment. After about 12 months of that, I pursued other relationships (though it was HARD). Once I started having to decline invitations because I had other plans with someone else, Se kicked in. After I started considering (and making plans) to move in with an ENTp that I've been seeing off and on for years, my ESTp moved in quickly. We just signed a lease on a house and made our relationship "official".

That "open-ended" problem clears up pretty quickly if we let people know that we will not be a victim to their agenda...because we do tend to place ourselves in the victim role for the ones we adore. It's tough to pull away, but anyone who means business will come after you before you get too far away. Those are the only ones you want!

How does the IEI manage the tendency to expect and not take disappointments to heart? Any help appreciated.

Gah. I think this is unavoidable for IEIs. We process everything from a Heart-centered place of existence. The trick is to rationalize (lean on that 5 wing), remember that people are just doing what they do, and NOT doing anything TO you. It's easier for me at that point to say, "this is what they needed to do for their own reasons - it has nothing to do with me. And, I have the same freedom."

[redbaron]

The trick is to rationalize (lean on that 5 wing), remember that people are just doing what they do, and NOT doing anything TO you. It's easier for me at that point to say, "this is what they needed to do for their own reasons - it has nothing to do with me. And, I have the same freedom."

Good advice.

[Wittmont]

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbrat
The trick is to rationalize (lean on that 5 wing), remember that people are just doing what they do, and NOT doing anything TO you. It's easier for me at that point to say, "this is what they needed to do for their own reasons - it has nothing to do with me. And, I have the same freedom."

Good advice.

----------------------

Aye, it took me a long time to realize that.