EIE/ENFj style, dress sense, and Si PoLR

[Hugo]

I knew an ENFj who had quite a good dress sense. She dressed in a posh way. Her dress sense went with "high fashion". Perhaps she saw what sort of clothes people have in fashion magazines. I know she read a glossy magazine.

I don't understand why her polr is .

Why is an ENFj's polr and how does it manifest itself?

[MySaviour]

They put continuous and conscious effort into it.. at some point, they "hit it."

[science as magic]

even though they appear attractive to others they still feel very self-conscious about their bodies. for example if you were to pinch their stomach and say "hey look I can pinch and inch" they would feel very ugly whether or not they actually were heavy. i would like to be very careful to say that not everyone who is sensitive about their appearance is enfj however because I know esfjs and isfps who are that way also. i am not sure how to describe because it seems that the common stereotypes of it are overly simplistic such as being snobbish about food for example which seems to occur much more frequently in enfjs than esfjs. Perhaps a good example of their PoLR would be some of the "intuitions" that they have that they attribute to Ni. For example I've noticed Ni types sometimes hear a song randomly and forget that they have heard it and later have a sudden desire to hear that song "out of the blue" when what really happened is that they heard a cell phone ring with that song or something a few hours earlier and it grew on their "subconscious mind" to the point that it reached consciousness once again. an Si type would probably remember the initial stimuli and attribute the desire to that rather than "making up" some convoluted reason as to why they wanted to hear that song. That is why enfjs often do unwise things based upon bad "intuition" that can be attributed to negative environmental stimuli that they do not perceive. for example their frequent mood swings (especially towards depression) seem to be a result of this. also the propensity for enfjs to get overly excited about new relationships and know that "they will just work out" seems to be the same sort of thing except it is caused by putting too much significance on positive social cues that someone gives off on a first date or whatever which become very very distorted when they try to recall them later and become almost mythic or rapturous in quality. it seems to be a similar mechanism to how Si people can see possibilities develop but only negative ones. i am sorry if that sounds overly negative to any Ni people out there.

[Creepy-pokeball]

el oh el. Si shadow for ENFj's is not about aesthetics. Fe is completely capable of taking care of that (see Fe/Si, Ni/Fe, Si/Fe for details!). The appearance thing is across the board with probably a diluted exception with NT's... but even the females are more likely to have minor vulnerability to that issue.

The issue with ENFj's and Si is time/space relations... specifically spatial relation (really shitty, hence clumsiness) and relations with past specifics (it all becomes a massive summary, you will note that ENFjs have a summary-like language, see Buffy the Vampire Slayer for details). You will note that since they are not perceiving past time in a step by step or linear fashion that they will have issues with this.

Example: Enfj tells complex past story of memories and mayhem encompassing summaries with Fe inclusion.

Si/Xe: No, it was not like this. A, B, C, D... then Z happened. You are wrong.


Seriously, quit parroting information from the net. It's annoying, sigh. Introspection or listening skills = yay. Textual masturbation=

[Creepy-Diana]

.

[Topaz]

Has not a lot to do with the topic, just feel like tossing my 2 cents here and there to muddy the waters but I'm really bad with time. I can never remember the order that things have happened, they all get jumbled together and connected, but as to which came first, I dunno! So couldn't other types besides ENFjs have a difficulty with this?

OOOH I have a problem with this too One thing Ive seen enfjs do though, is repeat, blow for blow a conversations to prove their point. They seem to be very connected to the words chosen but sometimes miss the overall meaning, or intent because of the words used. Ive noticed that istjs do this too.

There, that should completely derail the topic

Ok back on track. I think the enfjs I know have rather good taste as far as appearances and food etc. But they are sensitive about it. Sometimes they rely on name brands to insure they got it right. "Oh these shoes are Kenneth Cole" "This scarf was a gift, its Hermes" *yawn*.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Ive never done that in my entire life with the exception of making sure I wasnt wearing specific companies (like Nike, because theyre local and can go screw themselves). I usually wear earth tones or darker colors but the brand has never really mattered at all so Im guessing Im a minority ENFj, there really are not a lot of ENFjs (my personal experience guess, in which Im betting ESTj because they can feel similar in formal settings) in reality and they may be stereotype ID'd or that or that that is mainly a female ENFj thing especially since Ive always been anti of that. Now... my female ENFp friend has yet to get me into pink (shes tried, multiple time...) so there are limits.


And yeah, all N's speak in summary but there is a difference "according to the theory." For example, all my friends know that when Im driving "hole" means: exit, turn off, driveway, avenue, street, merge, bridge etc. Ive condensed an entire language system for driving lol so that I dont have to say/care about the details. Of course, it makes sense if youve ever driven in the Portland or Seattle areas because theyre built like rat mazes.

[Hugo]

Can someone please explain in a sentence or two the enfj's polr. Thanks .

[Creepy-pokeball]

Good luck lol. I gotta jet, Im late =(

[Joy]

I'm pretty sure that my mom is an ENFj, and she may very well have the worst fashion sense I've ever seen. She tries, but... Lots of really bright colors...

[Gilly]

My GOD...I have an ENFj sister and an ENTj mother, and I swear, sometimes it's hard to go out in public with them (although less so my sister; she lives in New York City and works with lots of really artsy, so she's learned some fashion sense via osmosis).

[FDG]

Ehm, yeah, I like bright yellow t-shirts with black jens, or mixtures of blue-yellow-red-black-white.

[Gilly]

[FDG]

Well, it's not like I dress like a clown. Kinda.

[UDP]

I knew an ENFj who had quite a good dress sense. She dressed in a posh way. Her dress sense went with "high fashion". Perhaps she saw what sort of clothes people have in fashion magazines. I know she read a glossy magazine.

I don't understand why her polr is .

Why is an ENFj's polr and how does it manifest itself?

They put continuous and conscious effort into it.. at some point, they "hit it."

......well, at some point, someone is going to "hit it".

I probably would, if I were really in the mood. I think I get along pretty well with ENFJs... at least on a sensual connection level.

Fashion is ..... ...... not exactly my thing, or concern. I don't care about trends (at least in the fashion department), or what is new or exciting. I just know what I like and what I do not...



(whoooah, how did I fall into this part of the forum?)
(I'm gettin out of here....)

[Expat]

Can someone please explain in a sentence or two the enfj's polr. Thanks .

The ENTj PoLR is manifested in a difficulty to be aware of his own appearance, and that of his immediate surroundings - clothes, desk, car etc. Also in a relative indifference to sensorial experiences, including food.

By contrast, the ENFj PoLR seems to manifested itself as an excessive sensitivity to such things, in a "painful" way. So they sometimes arrange their immediate surroundings in a, to others, "bizarre" way since they need specific sensations; they like strong tastes in food, and dressing up in either very posh or "aristocratic" way, or like a slob.

So, basically, it seems that the ENTj PoLR is like a "blindness" to sensory perceptions, and the ENFj PoLR is like a over-sensitivity to it.

Any comment from an ENFj - - does it make sense?

[Hugo]

But I thought that what you have described for enfj polr sounds more like a role function than a polr because (correct me if I'm wrong) the role function is related to over-reacting.

Is this correct?

[Expat]

But I thought that what you have described for enfj polr sounds more like a role function than a polr because (correct me if I'm wrong) the role function is related to over-reacting.

Is this correct?

Honestly I can't explain it how it works, of even if what I wrote is correct. I based that description on the Russian ones and my own experiences with ENFjs.

This has been addressed elsewhere (I can't find it), but FDG also thought that the in ENTjs and ENFjs worked in different, even opposite ways.

I'm not sure that over-reacting is mainly a role-function thing. My guess is that you'd be more likely to over-react with the role function since you're more aware of it and at least try to make it work, while we tend to try to ignore the PoLR.

But I think that if you are constantly made aware of the PoLR as a problem, you might over-react to it as well. So an ENFj with PoLR would be more emotionally sensitive to the effect of his appearance on others through his strong and be more inclined than an ENTj to compensate for it. Hence the so-called "aristocratic" look of ENFjs, particularly the ethical subtype ones.

How that would cause them to over-react in food, I don't know

[FDG]

Can someone please explain in a sentence or two the enfj's polr. Thanks .

The ENTj PoLR is manifested in a difficulty to be aware of his own appearance, and that of his immediate surroundings - clothes, desk, car etc. Also in a relative indifference to sensorial experiences, including food.

By contrast, the ENFj PoLR seems to manifested itself as an excessive sensitivity to such things, in a "painful" way. So they sometimes arrange their immediate surroundings in a, to others, "bizarre" way since they need specific sensations; they like strong tastes in food, and dressing up in either very posh or "aristocratic" way, or like a slob.

So, basically, it seems that the ENTj PoLR is like a "blindness" to sensory perceptions, and the ENFj PoLR is like a over-sensitivity to it.

Any comment from an ENFj - - does it make sense?

Expat, my conclusions - derived from articles on functional descriptions of both ENFjs and ENTjs at socionics.org - are exactly the same.


It's probably a biased perispective, but I personally think that the PoLR is much more of a strenght than a weakness for the ENTj.

[Expat]

It's probably a biased perispective, but I personally think that the PoLR is much more of a strenght than a weakness for the ENTj.

Objectively speaking, I agree -- but it can be a social weakness if you have to work with sensory people who will always find something defective in your appearance.

[tempus]

ENFj PoLR in action: The other day I was on the phone with a friend of mine, ENFj, who said she was glad that her hands were becoming numb (I guess it's cold in her house) because she liked the absense of sensation...

[schrödinger's cat]

A friend of mine, probably ENFJ, always buys equal numbers of tins, never odd ones. So she'll never buy 1 tin of peas or 3, always 2 or 4. She finds it a bit embarassing. Is that tied to what you described?

[Expat]

Cat, that sounds like OCD, to which ENFjs are said to be more sensitive to -- I think it goes beyond simple PoLR.

[Creepy-pokeball]

I sincerely do not identify with anything you guys have stated...except maybe prescribed and legal painkillers because a nice mental vacation with no legal guilt = awesome. But that's a different kind of numb it seems.