Results 1 to 27 of 27

Thread: Problem with SLE/ESTp brother being rude and dominating

  1. #1
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    4,481
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Problem with SLE/ESTp brother being rude and dominating

    My family and I are having a problem with my ESTp brother. He sits around waiting for a chance to call my sister all sorts of vulgar names. If she trips, he'll laugh and call her a dumbass, if she is eating a lot, he'll call her fat, and the list goes on and on. Any attempt to rein him in only leads to him calling us "prudes".

    I know he's 13 and that is the time when people are super confused, but he is power-playing with my sister, continuously asserting his "dominance" over her. I really want him to chill out, but I'm not sure how to go about that. I try talking to him about it all, but he just makes a mockery of it, and I can barely get him to listen.

    Any advice?
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  2. #2
    Blaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,725
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    what is your sister's type?

    SLE does this to everybody, either outwardly or inwardly....

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  3. #3
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    4,481
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    what is your sister's type?

    SLE does this to everybody, either outwardly or inwardly....
    I am under the impression she is ESFj, very giggly and extroverted. Def Fe base. She calls him mean and doesn't value the Se he gives off, so ENFj isn't too possible.

    Esper, I should try to treat him like a man, because he's the kind of kid that would defend his friends and kick their asses. I'd like to be able to do that, so maybe I should "value" his Se and stuff. Maybe I'm not a very good brother, because he sees my lack of aggression and takes that for weakness.

    It seems like kid SLEs just need to be granted a bit of autonomy, a bit of power.
    hmm, interesting. He's very protective of his personal items, maybe I should coerce my parents to let him expand himself more, give him that power he wants.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  4. #4
    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Chatbox
    TIM
    SEI, 9
    Posts
    5,268
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    hmm, interesting. He's very protective of his personal items, maybe I should coerce my parents to let him expand himself more, give him that power he wants.
    Are your parents concerned at all? What do they do about it?
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

  5. #5
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    4,481
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jem View Post
    Are your parents concerned at all? What do they do about it?
    Yes, they are a bit, they talk about how I never "acted up" like that when I was his age. My father has told me to talk to him some, because it would have more effect if his older brother talks to him. They just tell him to stop it, nothing serious. He has always done it, so we've become conditioned to it.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  6. #6
    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Space
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    12,802
    Mentioned
    367 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think your sister should try to stand her ground with him and not allow him take dominance over her. It sounds like your brother just needs to be snapped out of that state when he starts acting out of control like that, and he needs to learn that it's not right to treat people that way.

    I haven't had much experience with ESTp's, but I'm sure my younger neighbor is one. I love that kid, but I remember a time when he kept pounding on my door for some stupid reason (I think it had something to do with my sister). I was grumpy, had a headache, and had just about had enough of it... I got irritated enough to the point of where I opened the door, aggressively asserted myself, and basically told him to stop pounding on my door, and get lost. His expression turned quickly from all fun and games, to shock and bewilderment, and he pretty much got the idea and left immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

  7. #7
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,321
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't think your brother's behavior is at all respectful or appropriate and I think it's up to your parents to make it stop. If it were me, I'd start by having a talk with him and maybe giving some power over his own stuff as has been suggested here but honestly, if he doesn't shape up, I'd start taking away privileges until the behavior ends. It's not fair to your sister, who ought to be at least somewhat protected from that sort of behavior in her own home.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  8. #8
    redbaron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    9,321
    Mentioned
    16 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    I like that too. Honestly that was part of the problem with my SLE nephew, is parents not being on the ball about disciplining that stuff immediately. But I would be careful because if they do it in a way that is not appreciative of his innate character and is just openly forceful, it could cause an unhealthy SLE to get sneaky and mean. Of course, this is the problems with most kids and parent discipline.
    yeah we don't want sneaky or mean SLEs roaming around. I think there's a way to do it that's respectful of both kids. I mean, the daughter deserves respect also. Just cause you're SLE doesn't give you the right to be calling your sister denigrating names all the time. Next thing you know you'll have parents allowing their IEI kids to commit suicide just cause they're IEI. just kiddin'
    IEI-Fe 4w3

  9. #9
    XoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4,407
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    SLE kid needs to be faced head to head and shown that their actions are not allowed and will have real consequences. Redbaron's advice is good. More control and power to him about his own business so that he can be himself but also tough stance on any boundary crossings. Real consequences. Take away things and priviledges which really mean to him. Be tough but be fair. Use some logical and consistent approach that they can understand and appreciate. Create a Ti-system of reward and punishment that is. Always voice out your disapproval and approval and don't leave any room for guess work. He has to learn that doing X will get him rewarded and doing Y will get him punished. SLE learns this kind of system really quickly. But if you leave any room for the SLE to manouver in they will. If they sense a weakness in your stance they will not hesitate to capture it. Show them that there is only one way to get the reward and that is your way. Every other way leads to punishment. You know, be an ISTj.

  10. #10
    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Space
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    12,802
    Mentioned
    367 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)

    Default

    Do you think it's possible you could persuade your brother to take up some kind of physical activity (like sports) so he can focus all of that pent up negative energy he has in a positive way?
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

  11. #11
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    My family and I are having a problem with my ESTp brother. He sits around waiting for a chance to call my sister all sorts of vulgar names. If she trips, he'll laugh and call her a dumbass, if she is eating a lot, he'll call her fat, and the list goes on and on. Any attempt to rein him in only leads to him calling us "prudes".
    He's in full out "rebellion" mode. Sounds like fun.

    I know he's 13 and that is the time when people are super confused, but he is power-playing with my sister, continuously asserting his "dominance" over her. I really want him to chill out, but I'm not sure how to go about that. I try talking to him about it all, but he just makes a mockery of it, and I can barely get him to listen.

    Any advice?
    He's testing for boundaries and structures.
    Perhaps isolation - people leaving him.
    He's craving interaction, and what you are telling him is that if he acts this way around people, they will still want to be with them.

    Because he's family he can get away with it.

    What also might work is getting some sort of role model or someone superior to him that will embarrass him or enlighten him.

    Or you could perhaps get an INFj to morally berate him.
    You should also consider what he is getting out of this.
    He likes seeing people react to him, so if people stopped reacting, that might reduce his reward. But that might be hard for your sister to do, not react, or not take things personally.


    I'm not really sure what to suggest.


    If I were at your house I would be inclined to beat the shit out of him, but that probably would just make things worse. You are no thread, as his big brother. If your dad is LII, then he may have no real Se. Your mom might be the only one able to do it, but even then, she's the mother, so....

    I don't know enough about the situation to suggest anything substantial. Let's talk about it sometime.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  12. #12
    UDP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    East Coast West Coast Dirty South
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    14,826
    Mentioned
    33 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Do you think it's possible you could persuade your brother to take up some kind of physical activity (like sports) so he can focus all of that pent up negative energy he has in a positive way?
    good idea.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  13. #13
    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    TIM
    Introvert sp/sx
    Posts
    7,739
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Kam, you need to call in the big shots.

    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

  14. #14
    what is essential is invisible to the eye fox's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Space
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    12,802
    Mentioned
    367 Post(s)
    Tagged
    9 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Or you could perhaps get an INFj to morally berate him.
    Bad idea! Now, getting an INFp to morally manipulate him would be far better.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

  15. #15
    Blaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,725
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    hey kam maybe you could pull an RV on him...lol


    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  16. #16
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    4,481
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thanks so much for the enlightening responses, he's a good kid when he wants to be, and I don't want to see something worse happen if I need to step in.

    I hate feeling like I'm the parent, but I think I need to take more of a role in my brother's life, because my parents say that they are tired a lot, and they have a right to be, in their mid-50's.

    My brother ignores my ISFj mother because she can get overly prudish even for me, and my dad just yells when my brother steps out of line, but he seems to leave the discipline to my mother a bit, I think he is at a bit of a loss to such a headstrong kid.

    He already is very athletic, but I will try to get him to come outside more, offer to play ball with him, and get my ass whooped.

    As I said, great thread. I need to re-read this again, so much info on ESTp problems/solutions here.

    Ms Lively: lol, that could be my bro down there.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  17. #17
    Blaze's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    5,725
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    LOL....teach your sister how to conversate with him....:-)

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

  18. #18
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    TIM
    SEI
    Posts
    4,481
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    LOL....teach your sister how to conversate with him....:-)
    She's a girly girl, I talked with her earlier about my brother, and she has conditioned herself to call him a retard herself, she doesn't want to fight with him or say anything. It's hard conversating with your sister, I keep on feeling she's smarter than her age.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

  19. #19
    XoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4,407
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    Bad idea! Now, getting an INFp to morally manipulate him would be far better.
    Totally agree. There is no way that a conflictor can change your behavior. Conflictor just annoys you and there is not enough mutual respect. A supervisor however could be useful. So any ISFjs around Kam?

    And yes, if you can't be an ISTj then you can be Beta NF and control him through emotions That might work.

  20. #20
    XoX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    4,407
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    My brother ignores my ISFj mother because she can get overly prudish even for me, and my dad just yells when my brother steps out of line, but he seems to leave the discipline to my mother a bit, I think he is at a bit of a loss to such a headstrong kid.
    Ouch. There is an ISFj around and still no help. You are screwed. Sell him or something (not really).

  21. #21
    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Behind you
    TIM
    sle sp/sx 845
    Posts
    4,956
    Mentioned
    137 Post(s)
    Tagged
    15 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    My family and I are having a problem with my ESTp brother. He sits around waiting for a chance to call my sister all sorts of vulgar names. If she trips, he'll laugh and call her a dumbass, if she is eating a lot, he'll call her fat, and the list goes on and on. Any attempt to rein him in only leads to him calling us "prudes".
    I used to do this kind of thing a LOT when I was a little younger than this at school. We had this group with girls and guys. And it was pretty constant, unless I was occupied. And even then I'd bounce a bit.

    With me, it's like not only would I do it. But there was this other guy that'd do it too. And it's like girls would easily feel "ganged up on", with "constant harassment".

    I was probably the primary offender. Then this guy who sat to the right of me would try to harass me, or a girl, or something. And the guy to the left sometimes did more clever harassments not so immediately.

    I know he's 13 and that is the time when people are super confused, but he is power-playing with my sister, continuously asserting his "dominance" over her. I really want him to chill out, but I'm not sure how to go about that. I try talking to him about it all, but he just makes a mockery of it, and I can barely get him to listen.

    Any advice?
    Well, back then, there used to be one girl I listened to. And sometimes she'd speak up, and get me to stop. And then I could not only stop myself, but get other people to stop too. Sometimes I'd iterate that if you don't like it, you should tell me to stop. Although sometimes that was met with "YOU DON'T LISTEN!".

    Anyway, I had a few things that seemed to me make me back down a little.

    1. Loud squeeling. Although I'd be like "Don't make that noise"
    2. Threatening to leave. Although I'd be like don't leave, we need you, and get other people to say that we needed them.
    3. This girl that I listened to. When confronted about why I only listened to her, I tended to say that she had a nice voice. And that if other people used nice voices then I'd listen to them.

    Anyway, as crazy as it sounds. I met someone iterating similar behaviour to how I used to behave. I've heard people being sensitive to the tone used, and excusing their not listening based on the way that someone else said something. And doing irritating/agitating behaviour with a "what are you going to do about it" stance just like me. It was strange, because back then I tended to often threaten people, and I had a high need to be in control . And he seemed to reiterate that. Although me, myself, my need for control has dropped significantly. And curiously that guy only threatened me once. And it didn't seem head on. Although, he was a little on the explosive side. And somehow, I kind of stopped being very explosive at one stage. (although if you can get explosive, you can get explosive however long you've gone without exploding)

    Anyway, this listening thing. My younger brother was also pretty good at getting me to listen. And he made it out as if it was really hard to get me to listen. Although he did seem to figure out strategys. And it's like he was kind of like the girl that I'd listen to. It's like because he didn't have a problem all the time. Because he was kind of "easy" when he had a problem. And because he tolerated my behaviour to some degree. It's like he had a way of calming me down.

    The other thing that seemed to bug some of the girls, was the way that me and the other guy, we'd tend to fight. And as the intensity started increasing. It's like some got uncomfortable, and didn't like the aggressive vibes spreading out. Although we'd stand from sitting etc.

    I'm not really sure how he was asserting dominance. But I used to often say about how girls were the inferior sex. That they're only hear to please us. That they should be useful. And I also used to kind of be fair / level. Like I'd say something mean about everyone going around in a circle. I also used to compliment though. And do things like say how we "needed" people, and how "useful" they were, and how "we can't cope on our own" and how "they can't cope on their own" and so forth. So in a way I was trying to hold the group together. As long as no-one complained about how it was being done.

    There were rules too. And one of the girls that I had the most problems with, she'd often complain, and not want to follow rules. And be annoying. And abrasive and so forth. And whilst people were well behaved, I wasn't so abusive.

    I don't think it's just SLE's that engage in such behaviours though. As lots of other people seem to. Back then there was a lot of asserting though. With the typical things of "Only I'm allowed to abuse", "quiet in the cheap seats" etc.

    And I've seen that kind of behaviour more recently too though. It's like okay for one person to abuse, but no-one else. Which seems to confuse some victims

  22. #22
    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Behind you
    TIM
    sle sp/sx 845
    Posts
    4,956
    Mentioned
    137 Post(s)
    Tagged
    15 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    Me: "so are you on my team?"
    Mini-ESTp: "no, you're on my team."
    Must be awfully lonesome being on a team all by yourself.

  23. #23
    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Behind you
    TIM
    sle sp/sx 845
    Posts
    4,956
    Mentioned
    137 Post(s)
    Tagged
    15 Thread(s)

    Default

    Bertrand, must be hard being a jew, eh?

  24. #24
    Brentano's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Plas Penrhyn in Penrhyndeudraeth, Merionethshire, Wales
    Posts
    98
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    My blood is pure Italian.

  25. #25
    Haikus
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    MI
    TIM
    IEI-Ni
    Posts
    10,060
    Mentioned
    223 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Emo Rayne Falcon reporting his childhood/adolescent strife.... (haha)

    This thread is interesting to me. I too was bullied and cried easily. I wish I asserted myself but for whatever reason I didn't. It's always refreshing to hear so many similiar stories of how you felt like you were prey...that your personal power was taken away or something. I think in a sense they were just trying to be my friend but they were going about it the wrong way. I'm not sure. Now I do kind of feel stupid for letting it get to me, because it is retarded shit. I mean there's no way I can play victim since a lot of people went through way worse than me.

    I remember this one kid first started bullying me by saying that "You're such a dork. That's right cry"... and I did cry. He said it so seriously. It's not what he said but how he said it. I was only like 5 guys you can't blame me. =p There was just this raw hatred in his voice that sounded real, and it's like ... he got to me. Wish he hadn't.

    But nobody ever taught me how to stand up to bullies, both of my parents were bullied themselves and never really gotten over it, so they didn't know how to deal with it. I had to find another family to teach me how to stand up for myself. I realize a lot of the suggestions people gave me were crap because they hated it too and didn't know how to overcome it themselves.

    Now not surprisingly the guy that bullied me is in a gang and is obsessed with guns and hurting people. But I know he gets hurt too- just he wanted to take it out on me for whatever reason. Oh well. In a way I am glad that he found somebody to connect to at least, even if he thought he had to make it out to be all cruel. =)

    Some people are creeps and like to use our emo tears for lube what can I say- there's darkness inside all of us.

    Part of what bullying does is.. I think it's effective because it can be surprising, it's the needed role as The Adversary to make sure you're fully equipped to handle yourself. Positively I just view it as a test because so much well...... so many awesome people were bullied.

    And it's true sometimes there's a Disney channel-ness to the bullying.. that they really are going through whatever you are going through, and they are disgusted that they haven't gotten over it yet too or whatever. Usually gay men bully other gay men like blacks hurt other blacks. When I hear of how a guy that used to bully me turned out to be gay it's not really surprising.

  26. #26
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    UK
    TIM
    SLE-Ti
    Posts
    9,169
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'm pretty insensitive. All the time. And I pride myself on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    My blood is pure Italian.
    Man, you so Mafia!
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  27. #27
    Memory of Tomorrow Reuben's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Oh baby, baby, baby
    TIM
    No idea
    Posts
    1,928
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Fuck you.
    She is wise
    beyond words
    beautiful within
    her soul
    brighter than
    the sun
    lovelier than
    love
    dreams larger
    than life
    and does not
    understand the
    meaning of no.
    Because everything
    through her, and in her, is
    "Yes, it will be done."


    Why I love LSEs:
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie
    A couple years ago I was put in charge of decorating the college for Valentine's Day. I made some gorgeous, fancy decorations from construction paper, glue, scissors, and imagination. Then I covered a couple cabinets with them. But my favorite was the diagram of a human heart I put up. So romantic!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •