Veganism

[Birdie]

Is anyone here a vegan? I've been reading a lot about veganism and am going to switch to a vegan diet
in about six months. I once killed a kitten on accident and now feel a lot of remorse when I eat meat even
though it was years and years ago. This is not my motivation for a vegan diet, though. Chemicals and
hormones in meat really freak me out. I know that you can buy meat that is hormone free, etc... but I've
been thinking a lot lately about evolution and in my opinion I think it's unnatural that we eat meat. I also
love vegetables. I really hate eating meat when I can taste it. I season the absolute Christ out of meat
when I make it which makes me feel that personally I do not enjoy meat. Obviously. I also don't care much
for dairy, etc... The thickness of milk has always bothered me. I really only enjoy tapioca pudding when
it comes to dairy products. I will severely miss tapioca pudding. I only really like the texture of tapioca
pudding.

My thing is I don't want to eat a ton of processed vegan foods. I want to be more of a natural vegan.
I am trying to get away from processed foods and chemicals and hormones. I just fear that this will
be horribly expensive.

If you are vegan, what do you eat, and how much do you spend on groceries, etc...

[HandiAce]

My thing is I don't want to eat a ton of processed vegan foods. I want to be more of a natural vegan.
I am trying to get away from processed foods and chemicals and hormones. I just fear that this will
be horribly expensive.

[mu4]

I think mostly you will be eating beans, corn, quinoa and etc, it'll be kinda of boring imo, but not super expensive.

[UDP]

Is anyone here a vegan? I've been reading a lot about veganism and am going to switch to a vegan diet
in about six months. I once killed a kitten on accident and now feel a lot of remorse when I eat meat even
though it was years and years ago.

....why, did you eat the cat or something?

This is not my motivation for a vegan diet, though. Chemicals and hormones in meat really freak me out.

Yes, which is an appropriate concern, IMO. (Organic meat now and then is healthy, though, also IMO)

I know that you can buy meat that is hormone free, etc... but I've
been thinking a lot lately about evolution and in my opinion I think it's unnatural that we eat meat. I also
love vegetables. I really hate eating meat when I can taste it.

Interesting. Loving vegetables is goooooooooood, though.

I season the absolute Christ out of meat
when I make it which makes me feel that personally I do not enjoy meat. Obviously.

Maybe you haven't found a way to prepare it that is good for you, but, yeah, if it's bothering you that much....

I also don't care much
for dairy, etc... The thickness of milk has always bothered me. I really only enjoy tapioca pudding when
it comes to dairy products. I will severely miss tapioca pudding. I only really like the texture of tapioca
pudding.

My thing is I don't want to eat a ton of processed vegan foods. I want to be more of a natural vegan.
I am trying to get away from processed foods and chemicals and hormones. I just fear that this will
be horribly expensive.

If you are vegan, what do you eat, and how much do you spend on groceries, etc...

I'm not a vegan, but I've become much more involved in terms of food, and been around a variety of people with health issues concerning food. Vegans, Celiacs disease / gluten free, a variety of allergies...


It doesn't have to be expensive, but, there's such a market for things nowadays that it can easily be expensive. There are a lot of related fads, and greenwashing, and 'fashionable organic' inclinations out there.


A random collection of pointers - ask more about something if you want more commentary

- the trick to cheap food, vegan or not, is buying in bulk and making food in bulk. This is related also to how you're making the food and who for - is it just yourself? Are you living alone? Are you living with people who will never eat like you, or with people who are receptive? How much of a fuss are you going to be about potential 'contamination' or 'instances of not being a pure vegan' / etc? Obviously it's easier if you have a community working around a similar idea, or are at least receptive to your specific diet requirements.

- Related, be prepared to declare your specific dietary needs, if you are being serious about it. This is good, though, IMO - character building, starts a lot of interesting conversations.... to say the least.

- Do you like rice, or quinoa ? Those are kind of base things.
To be honest I love rice now that I learned how to cook it and store it. I feel so much less heavy than when I ate a lot of gluten and break products.

If you can get a lot of organic vegetables (local, farms, whatever - that's obviously very dependent on your situation. If the best you have is a generic grocery store in a minor city or awkwardly located town, it might be harder than in a place that has access to better things. It's going to take some work to figure out the best way to buy the kind of food you want.

-ProTip (?) Just ask someone a question if you see them buying organic food, or, even hit up the gluten free aisle. A lot of the people have similar concerns and will know the area better than you, and there is a nice community feeling, sometimes.

Also check out if you have a local co-op or other kind of store that is interested in local food or organic produce, etc. You may also be able to volunteer or work there and get a discount, depending on who convenient i is for you / your general strategy...


I think that's what it comes down to. The biggest thing, personally and in seeing others go through it, is realizing you need to PLAN to have your food be the way you want it. That counts for buying , cooking, transporting (taking your food with you), etc. And getting used to what that entails. It's definitely a lifestyle change, which can be difficult if you don't have social support.

Most vegan-type people I know buy a lot of beans and veggies, and are more or less active in a sort of community around their food choices.
You can make a lot of good meals with rice, esp if you have a rice cooker (I find that cooking rice in bulk, and not burning it, leaving it maybe a little moist-er than normal, lets it stay well - and you can add it to anything to put in some carbs and potential complete protein). (Is rice vegan : ? )

There are also things like "raw food diets" or "Paleo" diets, which may be related to you interests.
I personally despise processed foods, myself. . .


Lastly, yo'll probably get familiar with lots of spices and ways of cooking new things. Keep an open mind and try to find people to share the experience with, I think that's the best advice.


(also, compare store brand organics vs other organics, you'd be surprised who is cheaper. Different locations all have different prices, so, get to know your local stores).

Enjoy the adventure!

[Gilly]

We have teeth in our mouths and enzymes in our stomachs that are there specifically for the purpose of eating meat. Evolution on the level of our bodies' requiremets occurs as a matter of hundreds if not thousands of years, rather than the short period of a social movement.

[Kim]

I am planning on switching to Veganism soon as well. I will keep you posted.

Gilly, all the Vegans I know are in great health (many much healthier than before).

[esq]

Once there was a kitten that hid under my car. I backed up out of my driveway and .

It was twitching and stuff. So now I make sure to yell away at any cats I see, for their own good.

And also once a bird flew in front of my car and it bounced off cause I was going pretty fast.

And once I had a small pet turtle. And probably I dropped him behind my bed or something. A month later I see the turtle crawling down the stairs and then he dies soon afterwards.

I suppose I also had a rabbit that I didn't really take care of. And some parakeets too.

[Gilly]

I am planning on switching to Veganism soon as well. I will keep you posted.

Gilly, all the Vegans I know are in great health (many much healthier than before).

Yes I'm sure they exercise and are, on average, more aware of their overall health than the average person. That doesn't mean they aren't missing something that should be there.

[Kim]

I think most people miss something that should be there. Vegans and vegetarians seem far more aware of what they need anyway.

[esq]

I knew one ENFP who was physically healthy. I think she was an exception. The other ENFPs smoke a lot, break their bones doing silly stunts, go on weird diets, chronically small framed, can't seem to eat very much. I guess it adds to the charm. The ones I like most are all cute and sickly. I suppose there must also be some heavyset sickly ones.

Maritsa is mostly correct that Delta NFs don't know how to eat. Can anyone refute this?

Actually Beta NFs also.

Edit: Though also the ENFP is somehow impressively energetic even though they don't eat calories. And they are good at making sexual innuendo and good at pretending to be mean.

[UDP]

I think most people miss something that should be there. Vegans and vegetarians seem far more aware of what they need anyway.

.... I think eating loads of nutrient rich foods that are not synthetically, unnaturally processed would make anyone healthy.
Going from anything mainstream towards veganism involves that.



It's a weird feeling going into grocery stores and realizing that 75-90% is not what you want to eat. but ho-well.




Party time.



carrots + hummus is good

[Absurd]

My thing is I don't want to eat a ton of processed vegan foods. I want to be more of a natural vegan.
I am trying to get away from processed foods and chemicals and hormones. I just fear that this will
be horribly expensive.

Click me

You are what you eat.

[willekeurig]

The Drynuary might not quite be my thing, but I made a promise to go vegan for January. I'm curious to see if it has any effects on my health etc. Recipes please!

[blackburry]

I tried it off and on...
the food i make tasted horrible.

so i'm like a pseudo-vegan.
who eats a lot of fish and chicken. and beef. . so i'm not really a vegan at all.
I just dislike a lot of processed food.

[mu4]

The Drynuary might not quite be my thing, but I made a promise to go vegan for January. I'm curious to see if it has any effects on my health etc. Recipes please!

http://bowenappetit.com/2011/05/02/s...herb-fritters/

[Absurd]

http://101cookbooks.com/vegan_recipes/

This is alright. Had something like this before.

[jughead]

I agree that eating meat is a evolved adapted process we have but most meat quality we have is inferior. It's cheap overindulgence reward for the masses; we get addicted to fat and sugar and that's whats in our manufactured "meat". "Organic" is only the tip of the iceberg due to bioaccumulation of toxins and the unsustainable and destructive processes it originally sought to rein in from oil based agriculture. Now you have to get grass/pasture fed and finished! beef that grazed on organic pastures as we realize each part of the food chain goes deeper and deeper (in this case bioaccumulation of omega 3's and carotenoids from the grasses and plants). And then you realize for everyone to eat this meat consumption must go waaaay down, or the population must. Subsititutes to this process will require lots of genetic enginereeing and vat grown meat of some sort and/or crazy artificial ecosystems that mimic the natural world more fully. I've found lots of vegans either don't understand this process or that they go "vegan" to avoid the glut of worse for the wear animal products and adopt vegatarianism as a lesser of two evils. Certain zealot ones do themselves a disservice though; they will be lacking in B12 and omega 3, and creatine, and thus will be unsustainable themselves unless they supplement (from animal/bacterial source). The "vegans" in India who either can't afford meat or do so for religious purpose have all "organic" produce that they barely, if even wash. This provides them with a acceptable amount of B12 from bacteria and bugs.

[Absurd]

I agree that eating meat is a evolved adapted process we have but most meat quality we have is inferior. It's cheap overindulgence reward for the masses; we get addicted to fat and sugar and that's whats in our manufactured "meat". "Organic" is only the tip of the iceberg due to bioaccumulation of toxins and the unsustainable and destructive processes it originally sought to rein in from oil based agriculture. Now you have to get grass/pasture fed and finished! beef that grazed on organic pastures as we realize each part of the food chain goes deeper and deeper (in this case bioaccumulation of omega 3's and carotenoids from the grasses and plants). And then you realize for everyone to eat this meat consumption must go waaaay down, or the population must. Subsititutes to this process will require lots of genetic enginereeing and vat grown meat of some sort and/or crazy artificial ecosystems that mimic the natural world more fully. I've found lots of vegans either don't understand this process or that they go "vegan" to avoid the glut of worse for the wear animal products and adopt vegatarianism as a lesser of two evils. Certain zealot ones do themselves a disservice though; they will be lacking in B12 and omega 3, and creatine, and thus will be unsustainable themselves unless they supplement (from animal/bacterial source). The "vegans" in India who either can't afford meat or do so for religious purpose have all "organic" produce that they barely, if even wash. This provides them with a acceptable amount of B12 from bacteria and bugs.

[nanashi]

We have teeth in our mouths and enzymes in our stomachs that are there specifically for the purpose of eating meat. Evolution on the level of our bodies' requiremets occurs as a matter of hundreds if not thousands of years, rather than the short period of a social movement.

Evolutional realities don't indicate the ideal scenario, though. Where we are now is the result of passing. It's not like it's great for some people that they have the genes they have now. Some of our genes can aid in killing us. Passing in our ancestors =/= ideal now or ever

[Gilly]

Evolutional realities don't indicate the ideal scenario, though. Where we are now is the result of passing. It's not like it's great for some people that they have the genes they have now. Some of our genes can aid in killing us. Passing in our ancestors =/= ideal now or ever

I would reply with basically what Ashton said, plus the fact that we are simply engineered to eat meat. It doesn't mean we have to, but it means our bodies are naturally designed to take in meat, and our daily rhythms and various ways of functioning are all predicated on what our body naturally assumes we will intake, because this tautologically determines what our body can produce. Humans are omnivores and incredibly adaptable, and obviously we can survive without meat, but we are also definitely designed by evolution to function optimally on a part-meat diet.

[stray]

I tried it off and on...
the food i make tasted horrible.

so i'm like a pseudo-vegan.
who eats a lot of fish and chicken. and beef. . so i'm not really a vegan at all.
I just dislike a lot of processed food.

Same here. If I lived with a good vegan cook though, I wouldn't complain. I'd end up happily being "vegan by association". I'm not one of those meat eaters who absolutely needs it.

[FDG]

"Evolution" indicates that we can digest meat and lots of people like eating it, so we do it...I mean, the world is not a videogame with strictly preset rules. I think "evolution" as meant by Darwin is strongly overused, casual and not causal mecahnisms can be a much stronger force...

[Azure Flame]

[epheme]

Hi Hydrangea, I am not currently a vegan (now I'm ovo lacto vegetarian) but, I was one for 8 years so here is my take on it.
It is actually quite easy and inexpensive. As long as you know your way around a kitchen you should be fine. I don't know how much I spent on groceries, but I can tell you it wasn't much because I was vegan throughout my teens and early 20s and was pretty much broke all the time back then.
The most difficult thing for you will be eating out. You can counter that by going mostly to ethnic restaurants. At Mexican restaurants you can get a bean burrito (you just have to check that they didn't put lard or bacon in their beans). Thai, Chinese and Indian all have many veggie and tofu based dishes (just be careful to check that there are not fish oils or oyster sauces in the sauce they are using, or milk if it's a curry). There is also an awesome website happycow.net that shows veggie friendly restaurants all around the globe. Happycow can be a lifesaver when traveling.
As to what to eat the list is virtually endless. Vegan food is delicious. Here are some ideas for you.
BREAKFAST
-hashbrowns with scrambled tofu, salsa and avocado slices
-vegan french toast (super easy to make)
-cereal with soy or rice milk
-oatmeal with whatever fruit or nuts you want in it, I usually put a little flax seed oil in there
-fruit smoothies
-breakfast burrito, meddley of potatoes, beans, veggies of your choice, basically whatever you like
LUNCH and DINNER
-sandwiches, all kinds, avocado rueben, pb&j, grilled veggie, lentil buger, oatburger, tofu salad sandwich, etc.
-beans and rice, so many methods of cooking and varieties of both that your possibilities for dishes are endless
-dragon bowl, this is rice or soba noodles with veggies of your choice and sauce of your choice all mixed together
-grilled portobello mushroom with baked potato and a salad
-sheperds pie, made with lentils and veggies instead of usual meat
-refried pinto bean tacos or lentil tacos
-chili


A good book for you to get is 'How it all Vegan' by Sarah Kramer and Tanya Barnard. It is a cookbook and also has loads of useful info for new vegans. And, most importantly, you need to research vegan nutritrition to make sure that you are getting all your vitamins and minerals as well as essential fatty acids and proper protiens. Braggs Liquid Aminos is essential to have on hand. It is delicious. Tastes kinda like soy sauce but less salty and fuller flavored.

[epheme]

Also, and this was the hardest part IMO, is get used to eating alone. Eating is kind of spiritual, you know, and it is a cool way to bond/feel connected to others. I really, really missed sharing meals, having that experience. And feeding you is the way some people show their love or affection for you. So turning down food offered to you by well meaning people who are trying to express affection really sucks. Especially if they are meeting you for the first time or come from a very culturaly different background where they don't get the whole vegan thing.

Anyway, if you have any questions, I'll be around.

[epheme]

You must be an Si-valuing type.

Perhaps. I'm not quite sure of my type actually but I wasn't thinking Si valuing.

[lunarpine]

Is anyone here a vegan? I've been reading a lot about veganism and am going to switch to a vegan diet
in about six months. I once killed a kitten on accident and now feel a lot of remorse when I eat meat even
though it was years and years ago. This is not my motivation for a vegan diet, though. Chemicals and
hormones in meat really freak me out. I know that you can buy meat that is hormone free, etc... but I've
been thinking a lot lately about evolution and in my opinion I think it's unnatural that we eat meat. I also
love vegetables. I really hate eating meat when I can taste it. I season the absolute Christ out of meat
when I make it which makes me feel that personally I do not enjoy meat. Obviously. I also don't care much
for dairy, etc... The thickness of milk has always bothered me. I really only enjoy tapioca pudding when
it comes to dairy products. I will severely miss tapioca pudding. I only really like the texture of tapioca
pudding.

My thing is I don't want to eat a ton of processed vegan foods. I want to be more of a natural vegan.
I am trying to get away from processed foods and chemicals and hormones. I just fear that this will
be horribly expensive.

If you are vegan, what do you eat, and how much do you spend on groceries, etc...

Have you tried being vegetarian for some time? Going from meat to vegan is pretty hardcore, but from meat to vegetarian and still eat egg and dairy is easier as a start. Half my family are vegetarians so I have plenty of experience and I have been both vegetarian and vegan time to time. Basically if you want to go vegan and eat clean food the best thing to do is to get a lot of basic stuff like legumes, veggies, grains, nuts, seeds and vegetable fats like coconutoil, coconutbutter, oliveoil, and most importantly flaxseed oil (source of omega 3). Make sure you get all your nutrients right, otherwise your doing your body more harm than good. The basics are quite cheap and you save a lot of money by not buying processed vegan foods and meat (which are usually expensive unless it's poor quality) However, being vegan isn't just about not eating animal products, it's a lifestyle. Be prepared to say goodbye to all sorts of sweets and an easy time going to restaurants and dinner parties. You will also come across a lot of people who will not understand and don't want to understand your choice. Going vegetarian/vegan overall is a great start of a healthier lifestyle.

[Birdie]

I feel very angry with all of you that have turned this thread into an argument. I cannot even formulate a reply
as it would be seething with anger and bitterness. I have rebuttles for several of you who claim that veganism
is unhealthy and that all of our ancestors were meat eaters and that meat is healthy for us. Anybody know who
Martial was? Yeah, thought so. Anybody remember When Marcus Valerius Martial made the statement that
if one wants to be fat all they must do is eat meat? Perhaps I was the only one that studied latin and ancient
Roman culture. We have known as a species that eating meat is not of the most profitable health benefits since
60 AD. That is all that I will say of this for now.


In other news my veganism is going quite well. I was going to eat meat one last time but then my boyfriend had
a horrible experience with the fried chicken he tried to make... I won't even go into that. I made my first real
vegan meal today. By that I mean something cooked, not just peeled fruit and raw vegetables or bagels, etc...

It was quite delicious and I feel quite proud of myself. It was a simple tofu pasta. I am not quite sure what the
fuck I am doing with tofu yet though I've read several different ways to prepare it. I decided to do something my
way though because that's the kind of person I am. I will probably make this meal again in the future only I
will more onion and mushrooms.

I feel much clearer and I have not lost any strength at the gym. In fact I have managed to increase
my strength. Today was my first day of ten by tens and they went smoothly.


Please do not criticize my choice in changing my diet. I am not pressuring anyone here to be a vegan I
simply made a thread for like-minded individuals to comment on and to share ideas. Please respect this
as we respect your choices.


@lunarpine
Thank you for your post. I have done a lot of research prior to switching my diet. I also plan my diet
very well. I keep track of my intake and what it consists of in an excel sheet. This also includes my
goals for the day. My goal calories, carbs, fats, vitamins, etc... Going vegan for me is actually not
a start to my healthy lifestyle but more of an ending. My start was getting over unhealthy mindsets
regarding food. I used to severely undereat and over-do my cardio. Now I am very well balanced and
eat a ton of food. Not really a ton but enough for a woman of my size with my exercise regime. I still
eat way, way less than a man but no longer an unhealthy amount of food.

A lot of restaurants actually have several options for vegans. Even chains. Dinner parties will be the
hard part and I do not expect people to approve of my choice but I will remind them conscientiously that
it is not their choice to make and I do not need their counsel just as they do not need mine in regards
to their lifestyle choices.

@Kim
Please do let me know how your transition goes!

There are others I will reply to possibly later.

[Birdie]

I think mostly you will be eating beans, corn, quinoa and etc, it'll be kinda of boring imo, but not super expensive.

It actually is not boring at all, but then I have learned since originally making
this post. Transitioning was kinda boring at first and I made the same things
over and over again but now I know how better season staples like rice, quinoa,
bulgur, etc... to create a different taste. I also learned how to make curries and
I dabbled in a raw diet for a little while only I didnt want to spend $100 a week on
groceries and lugging around fruit all the time was a bit annoying. Yeah, it is
easy and fast but bringing watermelons with you or 12 bananas or 15 peaches
can actually get a bit tedious. Like how do you store that well at work and not
have people eat it. Frustrating.

I have also learned to make delicious salad dressings. I feel like transitioning
to a vegan lifestyle actually helped me to become a better cook because you have
to be a lot more creative.

I will say pea protein was really nasty at first and took awhile to get used to.
But now I like it well and I tell anyone that wants to try it that it tastes like
ground up almonds.

I also learned I have a bit of a tofu intolerance. I cannot eat a lot of tofu in
one sitting without it effecting my stomach for the worse. I pretty much avoid
tofu in most scenarios but will upon occasion make a tofu scramble or cube
some into soups. I also had the idea once to try to recreate egg drop soup using
silken tofu. It was different. I would not compare it to egg drop soup in the
slightest.


I still miss my tapioca pudding though ): those little lumps! The best texture!

[Capitalist Pig]

My friend was on a strict vegetarian diet for about a year. Then she became a pescetarian and re-introduced seafood to her diet (mostly salmon filets, shrimp, crab legs, and stuff like that). Eventually, in her quest for fitness, she learned one of the reasons she was having trouble gaining muscle and losing fat was because she wasn't getting enough protein. Lo' and behold, the best and most efficient source of protein comes from animals. So yeah, she ditched the vegetarian thing for good. However, she still maintains that certain kinds of meat (white meat in general, but specifically chicken breast or turkey) are better for you than others.

I never entertained the idea of not eating meat. I don't see how I can live without it, even though it's not presently a huge part of my diet.

[Scapegrace]

This guy isn't even the best argument against veganism.

[some chair]

*natural source. Wouldn't the most efficient source be protein shakes?

You can't really justify muscle meat on any nutritional level. Anything muscles could give you, organ meats could provide better: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i...00g+beef+liver.

My intuition is that "avoiding hormones" is not really a good justification for veganism. Soy, for instance, contains phytoestrogens. I don't believe one can really avoid chemical contaminants in their vegetable matter, as you would just be consuming them in a less concentrated form than whatever you'd get by eating something that eats plants.

If nutrition and defensive eating are your goal, you probably actually want soylent shakes.

[Beautiful sky]

I don't believe in fad diets. I used to only eat veg because I loved it but got sick because it's not for everyone. I can't do strict diets because I have a fatty liver...and a problem with oxalic acid....I have to incorporate lean meats because my liver, in the absence of certain nutrients, thinks I'm starving so begins to draw fat from other partsbof my body and damage my liver.

[InvisibleJim]

I could live vegan if I knew of somewhere that made a wide variety of vegan food, but to be honest there aren't many of those around here.

[Birdie]

I find this works well for me and my research into the subject of veganism
vs vegetarianism vs eat whatever the fuck you want leaves the impression
that veganism is the right kind of diet for me. I am able to build muscle,
I am able to be healthy, happy, and do not feel like shit from eating poor
quality foods.

If you do not like it, do not try it.
I am by no means pressuring anyone here to change their diet. Eat what
you feel is best for yourself.

[Roro]

I was vegan for about two years, but somehow wandered away from that diet around the spring of 2012. Although I have been a vegetarian for close to seven years total, the vegan diet was a better fit for me and I am in the process of trying to convert back. It's really not as bad, difficult, or expensive as some make it out to be - but it seems you are already well aware of all this!

[miss BabyDoll]

been vegan for quite some time - the hclf one not the gourmet( nuts seeds avos) one. spend less than I ever spent while eating meat/dairy. eat fuckload of food an stay super slim my staple foods are fruits, vegetables, grains and legumes with the high emphasis on fruits also i've never been healthier in my life )

[role]

I want to switch to a nice healthy diet. I feel it will give me more stable moods (happier), more energy, and strength, but I can't afford it
When I try to eat healthier I end up losing a lot of money that I don't have. But I would love to try it as a lifestyle instead of as a diet I have to change to accomodate my money
Any tips? @Hydrangea

[Amber]

I'm considering it for the health benefits. Don't care about animals.

I don't think it's necessarily more expensive, at least I could probably stay within budget ...but I like food :-(.

[blackburry]

I'm more vegan now than when I originally posted in this thread.

I cut out beef and pork and most chicken.

I still eat seafood and sushi on occasion.
I found biggest change from feeling blah all the time to healthy is cutting out processed sugars.
I still let my self divulge when I feel like it but cut out few days after if I feel sluggish/headachey.