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Thread: IEIs/INFps you are complicated

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    Default IEIs/INFps you are complicated

    The IEIs I don't get along with are some of the cruelest and most manipulative people I've ever met, but the ones I do are some of the coolest and most amazing people in my life.

    These extremes confuse me. Why?
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    The IEIs I don't get along with are some of the cruelest and most manipulative people I've ever met, but the ones I do are some of the coolest and most amazing people in my life.

    These extremes confuse me. Why?
    They live life on the edge
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    I like it.
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    I like it.
    Yeah INFps are hot.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    You've answered your own question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    The IEIs I don't get along with are some of the cruelest and most manipulative people I've ever met, but the ones I do are some of the coolest and most amazing people in my life.
    They're cruel to you if you don't get along with them; they are cool if you do get along with them.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    I had violent love with 3 IEI's yesterday. (On the internet)

    Be jealous.
    Maybe you did, but I bet you they didn't get what I got from you last night.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    You've answered your own question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    The IEIs I don't get along with are some of the cruelest and most manipulative people I've ever met, but the ones I do are some of the coolest and most amazing people in my life.
    They're cruel to you if you don't get along with them; they are cool if you do get along with them.
    Yeah, I guess. But god, why is it so extreme? It's almost like if they sense I'm not completely in love with them they have to hate me. It confuses me.

    EDIT: IME, of course...
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    Yeah, I guess. But god, why is it so extreme?
    Because everyone - not just IEIs - is inclined to see other people as if they were their duals.

    Now, imagine that your inclination is to see everyone who seems a bit hostile to you as an "enemy SLE".
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    For what it's worth I see the whole fucking quadra the same way, Allie.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    INFp's can make you feel like no one loves you - or hates you - more than they do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Because everyone - not just IEIs - is inclined to see other people as if they were their duals.

    Now, imagine that your inclination is to see everyone who seems a bit hostile to you as an "enemy SLE".
    Even if my hostility is just part of my nature and not meant seriously?


    Actually the whole thing doesn't really bother me now that I think about it. However, it does make me realize how much I value the relationships I do have with them.
    I instantly disliked this one IEI girl I had met in school because she had always seemed rude and bitter towards me, but as she got to know me and we became friends...
    wow, I just really care about her.

    I just thought it was strange, the extremes.


    And I'm slowly realizing most of my closest relationships have been with people I've disliked at first. kjsdhflksjdhfzlsjkdhflKSJhflksjhflskjd
    It's probably not even IEI-related, but me
    maybe a saint is just a dead prick with a good publicist
    maybe tommorow's statues are insecure without their foes
    go ask the frog what the scorpion knows

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    I've had some very bad experiences with unhealthy IEI's in my life. I find that they can be wonderful people, but make them feel double crossed and they can show their hostile manipulative side. Even though on the outside IEI's will seem like the least extreme and most subdued type of the Beta quadra, they are still Beta, with Beta fire included. Like Expat said, you have to remember that they are duals to the SLE, and this must mean something!

    IEI's can be very charismatic, but don't let this fool you; the biggest asshole I know is IEI and he's a pro. He's been pulled over 9 times, and has never gotten a ticket! This guy is unbelievable sometimes... he's made me hate myself more than I ever could know and almost completely broke me down, (though I possibly made him feel the same way). He's done a lot of horrible things, but I wont get into them. Don't get me wrong, inside I know he's not a bad person (and I'd be devastated if anything happened to him), but he's had a horrible childhood, and has never had a mother figure in his life; the good thing is that I know for a fact that healthy IEI's are definitely not as extreme!

    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    I had violent love with 3 IEI's yesterday. (On the internet)

    Be jealous.


    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Maybe you did, but I bet you they didn't get what I got from you last night.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    Yeah, I guess. But god, why is it so extreme? It's almost like if they sense I'm not completely in love with them they have to hate me. It confuses me.

    EDIT: IME, of course...
    Gah, yes. I wasn't sure if I was the only one that noticed this about IEI's. One minute it seems they're obssessed and in love and want you more than anything and then it's like BAM! and they're upset with you for some seemingly unknown, unimportant reason and make you feel like everything you do is wrong and it's all your fault. I said it before in another thread, I feel like I have to walk on eggshells all the time.. the levels of guilt they can make you feel are too much. I wish I didn't like them so much because it sure is one huge emotional rollercoaster for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    IEI's can be very charismatic, but don't let this fool you; the biggest asshole I know is IEI and he's a pro. He's been pulled over 9 times, and has never gotten a ticket! This guy is unbelievable sometimes... he's made me hate myself more than I ever could know and almost completely broke me down, (though I possibly made him feel the same way). He's done a lot of horrible things, but I wont get into them. Don't get me wrong, inside I know he's not a bad person (and I'd be devastated if anything happened to him), but he's had a horrible childhood, and has never had a mother figure in his life; the god thing is that I know for a fact that healthy IEI's are definitely not as extreme!
    This sounds familiar and it's so wrong that I feel so compelled to help them regardless of how they treat me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie
    I had violent love with 3 IEI's yesterday. (On the internet)

    Be jealous.
    oh yeah...we were dykin it out


    As for the original notion, I don't think INFp's are inherently manipulative per se. The manifestation of something and the actual substance are rarely the same thing. So, what it really is, is a penchant to spin social webs (the ENFj is more about control; the INFp sits back and watches it unfold). We naturally want to keep the Fe states going with people, and see the subtleties of their behavior easily (Ni), so "games" come naturally. As for the extremes between cruel manipulation and complete love, this is probably a result of the INFp's insecurity. If they feel out of control of the relationship (maybe the dominoes are falling in a way they hadn't planned) or think you're against them, they'll get all Se and shit lol. I don't know.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    oh yeah...we were dykin it out


    As for the original notion, I don't think INFp's are inherently manipulative per se. The manifestation of something and the actual substance are rarely the same thing. So, what it really is, is a penchant to spin social webs (the ENFj is more about control; the INFp sits back and watches it unfold). We naturally want to keep the Fe states going with people, and see the subtleties of their behavior easily (Ni), so "games" come naturally. As for the extremes between cruel manipulation and complete love, this is probably a result of the INFp's insecurity. If they feel out of control of the relationship (maybe the dominoes are falling in a way they hadn't planned) or think you're against them, they'll get all Se and shit lol. I don't know.
    Yes, I agree with this; though for me it's not exactly Se, but I have seen the Se behavior from other IEI's.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    Even if my hostility is just part of my nature and not meant seriously?
    Well, then I have to conclude that those who get cruel to you are not reading you correctly. Nobody's perfect.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Do you ever forgive someone after they've acted "cruel"? What sorts of apologies are you expecting? I get the sense IEI's hold enormous grudges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129
    Do you ever forgive someone after they've acted "cruel"? What sorts of apologies are you expecting? I get the sense IEI's hold enormous grudges.
    I don't really hold grudges - it's a waste of energy. If I do have a vendetta for someone, I'm definitely not gonna think about it incessantly. And yes, I always try to smooth things out after being rude...it's like I want it to seem as though nothing happened, and I'll usually sweet-talk my way into the person's good graces again lol.
    4w3-5w6-8w7

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I don't really hold grudges - it's a waste of energy. If I do have a vendetta for someone, I'm definitely not gonna think about it incessantly. And yes, I always try to smooth things out after being rude...it's like I want it to seem as though nothing happened, and I'll usually sweet-talk my way into the person's good graces again lol.
    I agree with this--I rarely hold grudges. Takes too much emotional effort. I usually try to smooth things over. But I admit, there have been times when I've felt unfairly treated and I've felt inside myself that f-you reaction. Although I try to hide it. So I can imagine IEIs that were unhealthy or a bit more uninhibited (heavy Fe subtype, for instance) lashing out and seeming mean or vindictive, yeah.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I don't hold grudges (at least i try not to) either but it seems that even after the IEI supposedly "got over" and "moved on", there was always that underlying tension that they didn't quite get over it and that no amount of apologizing would make a difference. Of course, this is probobly an entirely personal thing and hardly type related IMO, but maybe it rings true with some of you? I don't know. I get a very mixed message with them at times. They forgive me, we're on good terms, they look for the smallest thing to bring up the past, we argue, they hate me for 2-3 months, they forgive me, we're on good terms.....you get the picture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Do you ever forgive someone after they've acted "cruel"? What sorts of apologies are you expecting? I get the sense IEI's hold enormous grudges.
    If someone I love has given me a serious blow, I can feel very hurt afterwards and revert into "my inner hole". I always find that I can forgive and forget, though, it may take some time to get over the initial blow. I find that once I love somebody, I'll never stop loving them, no matter how much they've hurt me.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Do you ever forgive someone after they've acted "cruel"? What sorts of apologies are you expecting? I get the sense IEI's hold enormous grudges.
    I don't hold grudges - I remember disappointments. I think others sense a change in the way that I look at them after they disappoint me. They can see it, feel it, sense it, etc. I believe resentment builds on their side, not mine. They want that idealistic IEI enamored obsession back, but they don't understand how to get it back.

    If I see that someone had an opportunity to do the 'right' thing, but they chose to be lazy and take the easy way out, I am deeply disappointed. I realize that we are all merely human - but we can try. I am heartbroken when someone does not even try to be a better person, when all it requires is choosing to do the best possible thing in the moment - no matter how much effort is necessary. Don't they care? Have they no pride? No dignity? No conscience? How miserably disappointing.

    I think this quote describes it best: “You gave him an opportunity of showing greatness of character and he did not seize it. He will never forgive you for that.” (Nietzsche)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    If someone I love has given me a serious blow, I can feel very hurt afterwards and revert into "my inner hole". I always find that I can forgive and forget, though, it may take some time to get over the initial blow. I find that once I love somebody, I'll never stop loving them, no matter how much they've hurt me.
    Well, no. This hasn't been my experience. When I was 17 I was hurt by a guy who I loved very much. And now, I can honestly say that I feel nothing for him and haven't felt anything for at least 15 years. You never know, you're still young and you may find that time will surprise you.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    I don't hold grudges - I remember disappointments. I think others sense a change in the way that I look at them after they disappoint me. They can see it, feel it, sense it, etc. I believe resentment builds on their side, not mine. They want that idealistic IEI enamored obsession back, but they don't understand how to get it back.

    If I see that someone had an opportunity to do the 'right' thing, but they chose to be lazy and take the easy way out, I am deeply disappointed. I realize that we are all merely human - but we can try. I am heartbroken when someone does not even try to be a better person, when all it requires is choosing to do the best possible thing in the moment - no matter how much effort is necessary. Don't they care? Have they no pride? No dignity? No conscience? How miserably disappointing.

    I think this quote describes it best: “You gave him an opportunity of showing greatness of character and he did not seize it. He will never forgive you for that.” (Nietzsche)
    Oh wow! this is SO good. yes yes yes "I remember disappointments" exactly.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suomea View Post
    Yeah, such an evil thing to do to an ENTp..... well if it's undeserved.
    I have known ENTp's to become physically ill in the presence of Beta wrath, specifically from IEI's and EIE's.

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    I bet IEI's are tigers in the sack.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    I bet IEI's are tigers in the sack.
    Yeah, from what I've gathered, whips and stripper heels are regular issue.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Do you ever forgive someone after they've acted "cruel"? What sorts of apologies are you expecting?
    a humble one. My ESE husband always apologizes if he's said something mean in the heat of the moment or whatever. On the other hand, an SEI friend I used to have once really disappointed me by intentionally choosing to go out to a bar with strangers instead of seeing me on my birthday. I was hurt but I knew he'd never apologize and so, to keep the friendship, I forgave him and decided to move on. (Good luck getting a real apology out of an SEI male. Gosh that guy thought he never did anything wrong. Stubborn.)
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post

    Actually the whole thing doesn't really bother me now that I think about it. However, it does make me realize how much I value the relationships I do have with them.
    I instantly disliked this one IEI girl I had met in school because she had always seemed rude and bitter towards me, but as she got to know me and we became friends...
    wow, I just really care about her.

    I just thought it was strange, the extremes.


    And I'm slowly realizing most of my closest relationships have been with people I've disliked at first. kjsdhflksjdhfzlsjkdhflKSJhflksjhflskjd
    It's probably not even IEI-related, but me
    Perhaps the reason for this is because when you meet a person you have the potential to become close to you're intuitively aware that you may become dependent on said person? I don't know, I think it's natural to resent someone you're dependent on when you don't know if you can trust them. Personally when I meet new people I think I give off a similar "rude, bitter" vibe, in fact I react negatively to all new things... then over time they start to grow on me. I'm weary of becoming friends with someone when I first meet them because once a friendship is cemented my Fi kicks in (takes at least 2 years) and I know I'm stuck with them, and them with me, for life.

    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I don't hold grudges (at least i try not to) either but it seems that even after the IEI supposedly "got over" and "moved on", there was always that underlying tension that they didn't quite get over it and that no amount of apologizing would make a difference. Of course, this is probobly an entirely personal thing and hardly type related IMO, but maybe it rings true with some of you? I don't know. I get a very mixed message with them at times. They forgive me, we're on good terms, they look for the smallest thing to bring up the past, we argue, they hate me for 2-3 months, they forgive me, we're on good terms.....you get the picture.
    Yeah personally I don't take other people's apologies seriously, apologies seem like more of a conditioned social etiquette thing with doubtful sincerity. I don't often apologize to others either. If somone's sorry about something then I expect them to prove it by not doing it again. Likewise if I'm sorry about something I won't apologize but rather slowly atone for it. Depending on what's been done this can admittedly be a slow painful borderline-masochistic process but it provides insights into people's character... and afterwards you know if the relationship has substance or if it's simply based on convenience.
    INFp-Ni

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allie View Post
    The IEIs I don't get along with are some of the cruelest and most manipulative people I've ever met,
    Can you provide a practical example of a healthy IEI doing something "cruel" and "manipulative". Unhealty people of all types do weird stuff so I am not interested in really extreme stories. Just "normal" IEI cruel and manipulative behavior. I just want to understand what exactly do they do. I've never known an INFp from a short psychological distance so I have no idea.

    Edit: Jessica too if you have examples. Or anyone else who has real stories.

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    hmmmm i've not known IEI's to be cruel and manipulative. hot-cold, yes but not cruel. even when they are manipulating the mood, it's usually for good not for bad. when i catch them at it, trying to put a positive spin on something that no positive spin can really be put upon, they don't like that, but i wouldn't say they are cruel.

    when they are cold, it feels really bad since when they are warm it feels really good. kinda like you feel the loss of the warm fuzzies from them. but they are not trying to be cruel.

    sometimes they're trying to get some Se thrown back at them....at these times it seems like they are more playing, trying to provoke the Se.

    to sum up, i don't think of the word cruel when i think of IEI's. *shrugs*

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    hmmmm i've not known IEI's to be cruel and manipulative. hot-cold, yes but not cruel.
    This is why I would like some real examples. I am somehow suspecting that this "cruelness" is not really cruelness but just their natural emotionalism which feels cruel for someone who expects eternal and unconditional love from them. I might be wrong though and IEIs really are cruel and suck ass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX View Post
    Can you provide a practical example of a healthy IEI doing something "cruel" and "manipulative". Unhealty people of all types do weird stuff so I am not interested in really extreme stories. Just "normal" IEI cruel and manipulative behavior. I just want to understand what exactly do they do. I've never known an INFp from a short psychological distance so I have no idea.
    lol @ "normal" IEI, in my experience IEIs are difficult to classify into healthy/unhealthy because their moodiness and irrationality... meaning one kind act can suddenly turn an unhealthy IEI into a healthy IEI and get them back on their feet whereas one irritated wound can suddenly turn a healthy IEI into an unhealthy IEI and *flush* there they go drowning in the gutter again. Also an IEI can simultaneously appear healthy to some people and unhealthy to others
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    hmmmm i've not known IEI's to be cruel and manipulative. hot-cold, yes but not cruel. even when they are manipulating the mood, it's usually for good not for bad. when i catch them at it, trying to put a positive spin on something that no positive spin can really be put upon, they don't like that, but i wouldn't say they are cruel.

    to sum up, i don't think of the word cruel when i think of IEI's. *shrugs*
    Actually you're right. I think cruel was the wrong word to use. I originally meant that I believed that the way they used social/emotional manipulation on people was cruel. Of course I am saying this based on the particular experiences with them I have dealt with. Not in general.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    hmmmm i've not known IEI's to be cruel and manipulative. hot-cold, yes but not cruel. even when they are manipulating the mood, it's usually for good not for bad. when i catch them at it, trying to put a positive spin on something that no positive spin can really be put upon, they don't like that, but i wouldn't say they are cruel.

    when they are cold, it feels really bad since when they are warm it feels really good. kinda like you feel the loss of the warm fuzzies from them. but they are not trying to be cruel.

    sometimes they're trying to get some Se thrown back at them....at these times it seems like they are more playing, trying to provoke the Se.

    to sum up, i don't think of the word cruel when i think of IEI's. *shrugs*
    This is a good post. Very true...especially the hot/cold statements. I do not and will never understand this. Could an IEI possibly explain how your feelings toward someone you care about change so drastically in a matter of mintues? How can you go from love to hate so quickly? Is this "hate" just an exaggeration? When you care about someone, why do you put them thru this? It's love-hate-love-hate. Are you looking for the other to validate they care about you? Pleeeease, I don't understand it. It's extremely frustrating.

    I'll post some examples maybe some time soon if i get the chance, XOX.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    This is a good post. Very true...especially the hot/cold statements. I do not and will never understand this. Could an IEI possibly explain how your feelings toward someone you care about change so drastically in a matter of mintues? How can you go from love to hate so quickly? Is this "hate" just an exaggeration? When you care about someone, why do you put them thru this? It's love-hate-love-hate. Are you looking for the other to validate they care about you? Pleeeease, I don't understand it. It's extremely frustrating.

    I'll post some examples maybe some time soon if i get the chance, XOX.
    no no it's not hate. If an IEI "hates" you they'd cut you out of their life. Although in all honesty there's no one that I actually "hate", in fact it would take a lot for me to actually "hate" someone so if it ever occurred I'd probably have to kill them (lol), basically what IEIs are putting you through is exactly what they themselves are going through, it's not a conscience manipulation, IEIs aren't logical rational calculating people, in many ways from an emotional standpoint looking at an IEI is like looking into a foggy mirror, if you could just wipe it clean and get a clear look you'd see someone experiencing what you're experiencing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Yeah INFps are hot.
    some of them are beyond hot.

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    Heh, I am never cruel on purpose. I think it may be more a situation of the IEI clamming up for some reason rather than starting to 'hate' someone. I couldn't switch between feelings like that. If I am hopelessly in love I just want to bask in the glory of you, and if something comes between that for some reason it may make me 'clam up' and pine hopelessly until the situation is better again...

    Sunshine reads IEI's very well. A little positive attention goes a long way in such cases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wittmont View Post
    Sunshine reads IEI's very well. A little positive attention goes a long way in such cases.
    +1

    Yeah, I feel that normal IEI's will naturally manipulate the atmosphere around them for good, and not for "evil". I think that when most of us hear the word manipulation we think of it as a bad thing, but in reality it's so much more complex than that. Honestly, in all truth, I will admit that when I was in my early teens I sometimes liked to play games by toying with others emotions for my own personal amusement (but really, what teenage girl doesn't?); I now know better than to do any of that bullshit again, ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    Well, no. This hasn't been my experience. When I was 17 I was hurt by a guy who I loved very much. And now, I can honestly say that I feel nothing for him and haven't felt anything for at least 15 years. You never know, you're still young and you may find that time will surprise you.
    You're probably right
    I suppose I shouldn't have necessarily used to word "love" I guess was more referring to "loving/caring feelings".

    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    Honestly "normal" IEI behavior when they've been scorned is probably more withdrawal than anything else. Maybe some reactivity if you're in their face at the time. But even then, it seems like alot of IEI's try to hide it. Like sunshine said, its more "hot-cold." Or as we like to say with E4s, push-pull behavior of the reactive triad.
    This is very accurate for me. If I'm hurt I prefer to withdraw more than anything as a protective mechanism for myself and the other person. I don't want to make matters worse than they already are, and I figure the other person probably needs their space as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by misutii View Post
    lol @ "normal" IEI, in my experience IEIs are difficult to classify into healthy/unhealthy because their moodiness and irrationality... meaning one kind act can suddenly turn an unhealthy IEI into a healthy IEI and get them back on their feet whereas one irritated wound can suddenly turn a healthy IEI into an unhealthy IEI and *flush* there they go drowning in the gutter again. Also an IEI can simultaneously appear healthy to some people and unhealthy to others
    I both agree and relate to this Last year I wouldn't have described myself as healthy individual, and it took a while to recover (though rather than take things out on others, I took it out on myself); but as of now I would surly describe myself as a healthy and happy person who's learned from their mistakes.

    I find that actually admitting my personal mistakes has helped me a lot. Other IEI's that I have known have straight up refused to admit to themselves that they have issues, and that's where I think the true problem lies between stable and unstable IEI's (not to mention the unstable IEI's that I have known have had horrible disturbing upbringings). I really think you have to take a look at a persons past before you can say for sure.
    Last edited by fox; 07-02-2008 at 01:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
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