type and neurosis

[anndelise]

I believe that some psychological "disorders" stem from a personality attempting to do actions/behaviours that run counter to the original type.

For example: An NeFi labeled with intermittent explosive disorder as well as borderline personality disorder.

In this particular case, the label was based on a combination of two things. ENFP actions combined with "learned" Fe attempts. (I use the word "learned" because attempting Fe was a long term survival mechanism.)

In another topic I mentioned what happens when an Fi attempts to Fe on a regular basis.

1. Basically, an Fi Fe's for an extended period of time. This creates internal conflict.

2. Eventually the Fi is going to put it's foot down and attempt to bring order back to the personality. (Hence intermittent.)

3. Usually by then, things have progressed so badly that the Fi comes out rather abruptly. (Hence explosive.)

4. People expect further Fe behaviors and consider the sudden Fi to be a sudden switch in personalities. (Hence borderline personality.)


Any thoughts?

[tcaudilllg]

I'm gonna stretch and say that borderline disorder is an effect of cross-sensation/intuition coupled with feeling. The desire for harmony in a sensate/intuitive feeler lends itself well to the creation of a "false self-image", which is what the whole borderline personality theory is centered on.

The question about your thesis that disorders occur "because of actions that are made counter to the original type" is "why would someone act counter to their type in the first place?" Somewhere you must pay homage to casualty.

[Polly_G]

Well I've dated enough people with personality disorders, I should be an expert by now.

I really think it has more to do with the emotional maturity of the parents. I can see personality coming into play when it comes to maybe teaching a child about the world around them but I think anyone who has a good level of emotional maturity will understand that there children are not them and therefore may learn in different ways and at different paces.

I was really smart in some areas so people assumed I was mature in all areas. Which was not the case. As I got older I learned a lot of my fears were completely irrational based on ideas I got in my head as a child but never bothered to ask anyone about.

I think a similar thing happens but at a more extreme level to those suffering from personality disorders. It causes that ego split.

[anndelise]

I have so far, noticed two forms of the "borderline personality disorder". Most often I've seen it in SeFi types. And once, thus far in an NeFi type.

One problem I see with the borderline diagnosis is the criteria which include unstable personal relationships, fear of abandonment, a poorly-formed self-image, and poor impulse control in areas like spending, sexual conduct, eating, substance abuse, etc.

Every ENFP type I've known has similar issues as above. In fact, those very same criteria are used in a reworded form to describe aspects of both the ENFP as well as the ESFP.

Another problem is with diagnosis themselves. They don't actually inform as to just what the problem is. It's a categorical lump. It's very hard to treat an entire group of issues. Where as if one can locate which personality aspect is creating the issues, then therapy could actually have a measurable goal.

Take that ENFP as an example. Understanding that it was the Fe traits that were creating the internal conflict, one can work towards increasing ability and confidence in the Fi traits.

I am just now beginning to get a clue about ESFPs. As mentioned above, every ESFP I've known falls under the borderline category. However, (and I still have a lot to observe regarding this), as I mentally review the majority of my interactions with ESFPs, I'm realizing that each of them had a poorly formed Ni which could easily have been the cause of many of their difficulties.
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As for "why would someone act counter to their type in the first place?": I had already mentioned that the unnatural Fe was developed over an extended period of time as a survival mechanism. In other words, to survive, the NeFi type had little choice BUT to attempt to develop Fe. Is that not causal enough for you?

Being told that a person experienced chronic abuse for 10 straight years of their life says nothing about how to help them. Knowing what areas of their personality type suffered however, allows one to know what areas to work on with them.

[tcaudilllg]

I'll tell you what: if you can find an xxFp who doesn't think that sex is their gift to the world, I'll give you an internet cookie.

We're talking an Aurora_Faerie who is completely full of herself here. (or hey, think Marilyn Monroe.)

[Creepy-pokeball]

Uh, this is rediculous lol.

[implied]

[Creepy-]

I'm gonna stretch and say that borderline disorder is an effect of cross-sensation/intuition coupled with feeling. The desire for harmony in a sensate/intuitive feeler lends itself well to the creation of a "false self-image", which is what the whole borderline personality theory is centered on.

How then would you account for an INTj with borderline personality disorder?

[anndelise]

How then would you account for an INTj with borderline personality disorder?

Just curious, under which criteria did the INTj get the diagnosis?

[Creepy-]

How then would you account for an INTj with borderline personality disorder?

Just curious, under which criteria did the INTj get the diagnosis?

No idea. There are different criteria? I don't claim to know a great deal about personality disorders.

She may also have comorbid bipolar disorder, if that says anything.

[Creepy-Diana]

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[tcaudilllg]

Here, see if you too have a personality disorder http://similarminds.com/personality_disorder.html

Apparently I'm somewhat schizoid based on this test, but according to the author:

"I don't think Schizoid personality is a valid disorder (read), some of the smartest people in history were schizoid because they occupied a remote end of the intelligence bell curve. Schizotypal personality can encompass highly original thinkers as well as totally insane people so I think it's a flawed type. I think the remaining eight disorders are generally valid."

So, I guess I have nothing to worry about

Just a note on that, consider the "Motion" relations on the cross-types chart. Those relations account for your statement that "many of history's smartest and brightest were schizoid".

That doesn't make the relations non-sensical. It just means that through their genius they avoided getting thrown into a mental institution.

One point on those people: Richard Feynmann, the brilliant physicist who is one of history's most memorable for his outrageous pranks and insights into new possibilities. He was the pioneer of nanotech, outlining its possibilies before a distinguished audience in the 1950s, before any large-scale research had been done on it. INTJs, who are the leaders in materials science, have benefitted greatly from his act "by proxy". Would an INTJ have been taken so seriously by so many? Not in the age of Einstein.

[Creepy-Diana]

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[tcaudilllg]

Just a note on that, consider the "Motion" relations on the cross-types chart. Those relations account for your statement that "many of history's smartest and brightest were schizoid".

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That wasn't my statement, it was a quote from the test page itself.

My apologies. Hmm... I've not really interacted with you enough to determine our relation pattern. Why not take the MBTI at http://www.similarminds.com/jung.html and tell us your score? I'll be able to determine whether or not you're a crossed type from that.

[Creepy-Diana]

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