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Thread: Enneagram Type 4 vs. 7

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Default Enneagram Type 4 vs. 7

    I've seen myself as enneagram 7 for a long time, but I read something in an enneagram book at the bookstore I work at the other day that made me think about the possibility of being a 4. I have issues with depression and soforth, but I don't really run from them like I think a 7 would. I'm liable to let myself go deep down into a depression, or even dig deeper intentionally, because I value it as an experience of its own, a different kind of experience. Most enneagram literature speaks of 7s as avoiding these intense negative states, whereas I see them as just as meaningful as my "positive" states, potentially even more "self-revealing," if more dangerous (but then that makes them all the more appealing). I hate it when people hide from the "dark" side of things; my brother-in-law is one of these people, although he would never admit it. I enjoy exposing the truth when it shocks and stirs people up; when I was studying Freud on my own, I wasn't afraid (well, maybe I was, but it didn't deter me) to go deep into the personal aspects and explore the dark, creepy sides of his theories that most people like to keep the book shut on...and for obvious reasons.

    I also think that being a type from the Identity Triad makes some sense of my flitting around from type to type, as well as my problems with identity dysmorphia as a general phenomena (I discussed this with numbers in chat yesterday and he very much identified).

    I know people tend to see me as upbeat and energetic and extroverted and so forth, but honestly, there is such a melancholy-emo side to me that I just never present because I fear being judged or whatever...I've convinced myself over and over that it's just a self-defeating tendency, because I'm so intense and hard on myself and internally dramatic, but I honestly can't deny that it's a part of me, for good or ill. It's a side of myself that, as I mentioned in my type thread, I'll never show to anyone who I don't see as fully accepting of me and "safe" in their attraction to me, so that I know I won't drive them away with my intensity, but it's something that I really can't deny, and doing so causes me a lot of anxiety and makes me more prone to acute depressive episodes.

    Listen to this: I have avoided going out and making friends here in Virginia because I know I will be moving soon and don't want to make moving harder on myself emotionally; thus, I isolate myself and am constantly at home at my apartment, sitting on the computer, reading, reflecting, writing, etc. Now would a whimsickle, footlooose-and-fancy-free 7 sacrifice the right to hang out and socialize and have fun and such that is literally at their fingertips, just because they were afraid of an emotional break? SERIOUSLY?


    In closing...

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennprimer/fineenn9styls1.html#anchor1995402
    Fours with a 3 wing can sometimes seem like Sevens. May be outgoing, have a sense of humor and style. Prize being both creative and effective in the world. Both intuitive and ambitious; may have good imaginations, often talented. Some are colorful, fancy dressers, make a distinct impression. Self-knowledge combines well with social and organizational skills. When more entranced, often have a public/private split. Could conceal feelings in public then go home to loneliness. Or they could enjoy their work and be dissatisfied in love. Tendency towards melodrama and flamboyance; true feelings can often be hidden. Competitive, sneaky, aware of how they look. Some have bad taste. May be fickle in love, drawn to romantic images that they have projected onto others. Could have a dull spouse, then fantasize about glamorous strangers. Achievements can be tainted by jealousy, revenge, or a desire to prove the crowd wrong.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  2. #2
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by same place as before
    Four's Connection to 1
    Quote Originally Posted by same place as before
    Healthy connection to 1 brings objectivity, balance and idealism. Helps Fours locate the objective world and connect to a factual reality that is independent of their inner feelings. Like finding dry land in a sea of subjectivity. Discipline of cleaving to the real world diminishes self-indulgence and melodrama. Practical problem-solving skills enhanced. Intense feelings smooth out, a kind of balanced equanimity takes hold. Will also be idealistic and willing to work hard out in the world for what they believe in. Become contributors instead of complainers. The low side of this connection is that a Four can become faultfinding and nit-picky. Dissatisfied perfectionism may color their relationships. Get creatively blocked because nothing they produce is up to their own high standards. Induce shame in themselves with inner criticism. May tear down others out of jealousy. Sometimes latch onto a grandiose, obsessive Big Idea. Belief they are attuned to Absolute Truth. Idealistic and artistic pretentiousness possible. Sometimes can be rageful.


    The bolded part is exactly how I describe my 7->6 tendencies.

    Holy shit...


    Self-Preservation
    People with this theme are often advocates of risk. Can be reckless, court disaster or just flirt lightly with loss. Take chances to stir up emotional intensity, play out melodrama or to get attention. Can have a desire to punish other through hurting themselves. The logic is, "If I die then they'll be sorry and finally appreciate me." (I actually had a long discussion about this with an ex-girlfriend...lmao) Can seem like counterphobic Sixes in their behavior. With a 3 wing this subtype is more flamboyant and makes a show of their daring. With a 5 wing they grow more sullen and self-punishing.

    I want to post more but I have to go to work
    Last edited by Gilly; 06-24-2008 at 04:36 PM.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  3. #3
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    All I have to say I said in that pm to you and also: That first description of 4w3 sounds like it was written for me.


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
    Johari
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    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    I know people tend to see me as upbeat and energetic and extroverted and so forth, but honestly, there is such a melancholy-emo side to me that I just never present because I fear being judged or whatever...I've convinced myself over and over that it's just a self-defeating tendency, because I'm so intense and hard on myself and internally dramatic, but I honestly can't deny that it's a part of me, for good or ill. It's a side of myself that, as I mentioned in my type thread, I'll never show to anyone who I don't see as fully accepting of me and "safe" in their attraction to me, so that I know I won't drive them away with my intensity, but it's something that I really can't deny, and doing so causes me a lot of anxiety and makes me more prone to acute depressive episodes.
    Were you an actual 4, you'd not be able to hide this part of yourself under any kind of "happy" persona. It would spill out, radiate; you'd be unable to contain it. It would not be a "side" of your personality. Instead, it would engulf you, define you to the largest degree and you'd be entirely unable to distract yourself from your own self-awareness. At times, you'll even pull everyone around you down into your own abyss, it would simply overcome all your best efforts to contain it. And you'd often feel entirely unloveable, unworthy, and hopelessly alienated from everyone you know.

    Most times, you'd resent having to be someone you're not and watch helplessly while "happy" people attract all the things you can't seem to find because you refuse to sacrifice your dark side. Or your identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Listen to this: I have avoided going out and making friends here in Virginia because I know I will be moving soon and don't want to make moving harder on myself emotionally; thus, I isolate myself and am constantly at home at my apartment, sitting on the computer, reading, reflecting, writing, etc. Now would a whimsickle, footlooose-and-fancy-free 7 sacrifice the right to hang out and socialize and have fun and such that is literally at their fingertips, just because they were afraid of an emotional break? SERIOUSLY?
    Yes.

    Whimsical. Here's the secret: 7s don't really get close to anyone. And they especially avoid getting close to people who could really know them and love them deeply. THAT would hurt too much to lose. They just don't trust themselves.

    Please accept that you're a 7, Gilly! It's a wonderful type to be! Shakespeare was a Seven! And Dali! And Robin Williams! And Jon Stewart!
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    strrrng's Avatar
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    umm...you're not a 4...so gtfo out of my enneagram type

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    strrrng's Avatar
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    btw 4's and 7's are like the enneagram duals lol

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Most times, you'd resent having to be someone you're not and watch helplessly while "happy" people attract all the things you can't seem to find because you refuse to sacrifice your dark side. Or your identity.
    I do most of the time, and it's work to not let my dark, whiny, emo side out, but I do because I'm afraid of being judged, and because I've been berated and told that I'm foolish and overly dramatic any time I let someone see it. I DO feel hopelessly alienated sometimes, more often than I think a 7 would allow themselves to. I ACTIVELY resist escapism because I LOVE going deep down into the nasty bits of myself when I have the luxury of not projecting something else for other people to see. I CAN'T distract myself from my own self-awareness; the only time I'm able to achieve such a thing is during intense meditation.

    Honestly, I am not gregarious and do not seem like a hopelessly fun-loving person to most of the people who know me. I am friendly, and I can be ebullient, yes, but only with effort (or lots of caffeine, lol), and my typical state of being is reflective, withdrawn, introverted in the classical sense; it's taken six years of trying to develop "social skills" to be anything but that.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  8. #8
    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    You're doing that thing where you analyse stuff again. Want some cookies?
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Yes plz
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  10. #10
    Blaze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    btw 4's and 7's are like the enneagram duals lol
    really?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Whimsical. Here's the secret: 7s don't really get close to anyone. And they especially avoid getting close to people who could really know them and love them deeply. THAT would hurt too much to lose. They just don't trust themselves.
    That's clearly true only for unhealthy 7s. Or you really think 7s can't have decent relationships?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    UGGGHHHH why does three make more sense today...I'm SO Sick of this shit...I must be in the identity triad, lol.


    ome Threes actually self-destruct when they achieve overwhelming degrees of fame or fortune. It is as if they realize how disconnected they are from their grandiose image, how false and phony it all is, how poorly anyone really sees them, how alone they actually feel even in the company of those who treat them with adoration.
    ^A large part of the reason I had a bad acid trip and had to leave school. FUCK THIS SHIT. I need to get away from psychology. AS"Difhuopqewrh342erphjq3'h;aerwhq34weruha;hf
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  13. #13
    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esper View Post
    That, actually, is the problem of the 4w3, especially the Social variant, hiding. Even from themselves. I think I can find specific pages in Wisdom of the E about it if you need it, Gilly.
    I knew a few 4w3s, SO-firsts. They seem to have a fixation with drama. In unhealthy mode when they feel ignored or slighted, they might resort to petulance, criticism, nasty flamboyant bitch-queen tactics. Highly insecure. On the flip side, when they feel self-disclosing, they can be insightful and vulnerable. They also may tend to have a wild creativity that they implement to self-express through art, media, eloquence, etc.

    They can appear quite similar to 7s externally. They are really rather driven with that 3-wing too. Can be ambitious, highly socially-aware and get really caught up in social gaming. Mostly, I'd think, the drive results from the core 4 condition to be "worthy". 4w3s move toward, while 4w5s move away.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Were you an actual 4, you'd not be able to hide this part of yourself under any kind of "happy" persona. It would spill out, radiate; you'd be unable to contain it. It would not be a "side" of your personality. Instead, it would engulf you, define you to the largest degree and you'd be entirely unable to distract yourself from your own self-awareness. At times, you'll even pull everyone around you down into your own abyss, it would simply overcome all your best efforts to contain it. And you'd often feel entirely unloveable, unworthy, and hopelessly alienated from everyone you know.
    Wow. That sounds horrible. Actually, it sounds terrifying. Thank-you, not-4...

    Whimsical. Here's the secret: 7s don't really get close to anyone. And they especially avoid getting close to people who could really know them and love them deeply. THAT would hurt too much to lose. They just don't trust themselves.
    I totally relate to this. I'm afraid that things will wane or fall apart and I'll be left horribly ripped apart from it. (Nick, I've had a revelation suddenly and the "internal pain" totally makes sense. I'm 100% terrified of internal pain). I wouldn't say that we don't get close to anyone, but I know that I subconsciously remove myself from deep emotional attachments out of the fear that they'll betray me later and if I feel like someone is encroaching on my intimate circle I will sometimes do what I can to push them out because it feels restricting and hits too close to the core of me.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG
    That's clearly true only for unhealthy 7s. Or you really think 7s can't have decent relationships?
    Sure, 7s can have decent relationships, but it probably takes more time and a lot of patience. It's like trying to coax a near-drowning victim into the drop off point of a beach. You need to make them comfortable with you and encourage them a little at a time. They need to know in their minds that they can trust you and be safe with you because once they step over that line they're stepping into something really terrifying for them and if they panic they're probably going to drown again. It's not like they can't swim, they're just afraid of the deep end where they can't just stand up when they're tired or bored. They've had bad experiences there.

    [/analogy]
    ILE
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    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    Sure, 7s can have decent relationships, but it probably takes more time and a lot of patience. It's like trying to coax a near-drowning victim into the drop off point of a beach. You need to make them comfortable with you and encourage them a little at a time. They need to know in their minds that they can trust you and be safe with you because once they step over that line they're stepping into something really terrifying for them and if they panic they're probably going to drown again. It's not like they can't swim, they're just afraid of the deep end where they can't just stand up when they're tired or bored. They've had bad experiences there.
    I don't relate to this at all. I don't do push pull, and I'm not afraid of losing anything. Heck, I think I'm way too awesome and I'm also way to optimistic to start thinking the other person might get bored with me. I've had good parents and, except minor exceptions, good experiences with relationships. Perhaps you're also speaking about Fi PoLR?
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    Yes, it could be because of Fi-PoLR that I tend to see things this way, though as Nick is often quick to argue, a fear of feeling internal pain is a defining point of 7s.

    Also, it's not a fear of rejection, really. I'm an optimistic and self-confident individual as well. What it boils down to is a fear of internal pain as I stated above. A fear that I will come to depend on someone and that if something goes wrong then I'll be left with an internal pain that I can't help but face. If you don't grow attached to things then you can't feel emotional pain. It's not a fear of things going wrong it's a fear of what happens after that. Again, it's much more subconscious than I'm making it out to be. It's not as though I actively seek to sabotage my own relationships, lol.

    I find it interesting that you don't find this fear of emotional vulnerability at all. I mean from what I've read about 7's and 8's recently (it's been getting extensive) that's a vital characteristic of both types. I mean obviously there will be greater extremes depending on your experiences, but seems strange that you don't relate to this idea at all.
    ILE
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    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Fearing rejection would make me lose too many opportunities for good things, so it's completey rational imho not to fear rejection or emotional pain. Perhaps I just automatically don't grow particularly attached to things and, since it's always been this way since I was born, I cannot notice the difference.

    Generally though, I think that even if my partner were to leave me, I'll just go on with my life, of course after grieving a bit.
    Last edited by FDG; 06-25-2008 at 05:51 PM.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    strrrng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esper
    ...only if they're IEI E4 & SLE E7 or something like that. Otherwise they might be ESE E7: Robin Williams! Yuck! :X
    well, I like the 7 the most, in and of itself, because there are certain similarities between the 4 and 7, specifically the frustration and idealizing, but obviously socionics type influences it. Se-ESTp would come first, then the Ni-ENxj's.

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    I'm now confused myself. I keep reading conflicting things about 7 and 4 that make me flip-flop between the two, just like between IEI & EIE (still, to be honest!) ... I actually see myself as more of a 7w6 most of the time when I am happy, but I do realize 4w3 is probably more true because it can appear 7-like, and I don't think I necessarily share that child-like quality all 7's seem to have (to me) ... I am more "intense" and prone to wallowing in melancholic states for the sake of it. But I do run away so much from any kind of internal pain... I think I am healthier now though, and don't need to self-destruct through running away and doing drugs, etc.

    I dunno, I'm changing. Sorry I totally took over this thread with my own self-centered analysis... =D

    Anyone know any STRICT differences between 4w3 and 7w6? I also just took another Enneagram test (purportedly one of the better ones) and got Type 3 Sx completely and then Type 7 Sx next. Type 4 is way below them, below 8 AND 2! =/ Weird, huh?


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    Johari
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    I think you're a 3, scarlett.

    Often 7s tend to care less about success - getting good grades, getting in a good school, etc - as I have seen you sometimes talk about in a way which tends to be rather typical of 3s. This is not to say 7s are better - indeed 3s are often far more accomplished than 7s.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    strrrng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by esper
    Yeah, members of the image/feeling triad tend to need alot of outward validation compared to the thinking triad, whether you are 2, 3, or 4. And they tend to need it in the immediate sense.
    Yes, I've observed this over and over again.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I have never been an academic "achiever," but it's because I fear failure more than anything; for me it would be more painful to try and not be "the best" than to never try and just pretend that I could have been the best student. That's been a theme throughout my life. "Counterphobic" 3?

    I don't fucking know. This is getting really old and I don't know what the fuck to think any more. I'm really tired of feeling the need to know my type(s). I really wish I could just not care I really wish that someone could just convince me once and for all that I am type x and y and z so I wouldn't have to think compulsively about it. My mind is growing weary. Maybe if I stay unsure for long enough I will give up once and for all (yeah right).

    Things about me that never seem to change:

    -I am noticeably more emotional and artistically bent than most men, occasionally leading people to assume that I am gay (so much so that I thought I might be at one point; I talked to my therapist about it and asked her if she thought I might be repressing it or something; she told me I was being silly )
    -I have silly moods but can take fairly quick swings downwards; my mood and behavior depend largely upon what I am doing or how I felt when I woke up that morning
    -I go from being "sufficiently confident," occasionally overly so, to feeling like I have no clue what the fuck I'm talking about
    -I hate seeing people who are overly confident about stuff, because (a) I know that they don't have sufficient reason to be, and (b) because I feel incapable of developing that kind of steady confidence; I would like to bring them down a notch but, for one, I'm just not an asshole who goes around throwing people down off their high horses, and two, I see no real reason to put forth the necessary effort because I really don't think it would be worth my time telling other people what to think
    -I have fairly sensitive brain chemistry (probably drug-related)
    -I want very badly to help the world in some positive way without being lashed out at by ill-intentioned jerks
    -I'm great at making first impressions but bad at keeping in touch
    -I hate "forcing" relationships; intentional getting-to-know-you stuff really makes things awkward for me, unless it's done tactfully/playfully; I would rather let the relationship develop on it's own. I think that's the only way to know whether there is actually something "there."
    -Overly-friendly people bother me more than people who treat me in a business-like manner, but I would prefer that everyone was just candid with each other.
    -I hate it when people try to place boundaries on me without very good reason or my request/consent
    -I can usually be gregarious and outgoing when I want to be, but I naturally tend to lack confidence in approaching people and taking initiative in relationships unless I get a very good feeling from a person or if they send me strong signals and seem to be obviously "waiting" for me to take the lead; my dominant mode is more reflective and interpretive than anything.
    -For most of my life I have been somewhat of a recluse, despite being the "center" of all but one of my various friend-groups; unless I feel very much involved with a group of people I tend to keep some distance and reserve a good deal of time for my personal pursuits (only once has the former occurred over a long period of time, and was, for some reason, the only group that I was not the "center" of; I guess they just had strong rapport with me or something).
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  23. #23
    strrrng's Avatar
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    JESUS CHRIST. After a long convo on stickam, I am actually considering 4w3 for Gilly. I think I'm delusional. Time for my pills (no joke).

  24. #24
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Nick has seen more of me in the last two hours than most of my significant others, lolz.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  25. #25
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I think you're a 3, scarlett.

    Often 7s tend to care less about success - getting good grades, getting in a good school, etc - as I have seen you sometimes talk about in a way which tends to be rather typical of 3s. This is not to say 7s are better - indeed 3s are often far more accomplished than 7s.
    I think so too. I just took more tests, detailed ones, and keep getting 3. I do think I am a 3w4, it makes a lot more sense to me now. =]


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
    Johari
    Nohari

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I am still open to 3w4 as well, actually.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    Wow. That sounds horrible. Actually, it sounds terrifying. Thank-you, not-4...
    Don't know whether you're offering this sarcastically or not. It is indeed the worst of the core feelings I have at times. But I am indeed a 4w5. Have done my time on the EIDB and other boards and haven't ever questioned my type. (Nor has anyone else to any significant degree). A lot of the alienation probably also stems from self-pres issues as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    I totally relate to this. I'm afraid that things will wane or fall apart and I'll be left horribly ripped apart from it. I wouldn't say that we don't get close to anyone, but I know that I subconsciously remove myself from deep emotional attachments out of the fear that they'll betray me later and if I feel like someone is encroaching on my intimate circle I will sometimes do what I can to push them out because it feels restricting and hits too close to the core of me.
    Basically, that's exactly what I was thinking of. It's a strange sense of holding people at a distance. I've seen 7s seek out people who they KNOW will hurt them eventually, so when it occurs, they're really not surprised. On the other hand, they're extremely ambivalent about getting closer to someone they might *really* value because of this fear of touching them too deeply.

    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    Sure, 7s can have decent relationships, but it probably takes more time and a lot of patience. It's like trying to coax a near-drowning victim into the drop off point of a beach. You need to make them comfortable with you and encourage them a little at a time. They need to know in their minds that they can trust you and be safe with you because once they step over that line they're stepping into something really terrifying for them and if they panic they're probably going to drown again. It's not like they can't swim, they're just afraid of the deep end where they can't just stand up when they're tired or bored. They've had bad experiences there.
    I really like your drowning metaphor here! So apropos!!

    I had this really archetypal dream about a 7 I know... he sat across from me in the corner of a room flanked by two older women. I watched them conferring. One of the women leaned over and told me, "He's just not sure of you yet"...

    It's been really trying getting to know him better. Just as I feel we're getting closer, he wriggles away.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Anyone know any STRICT differences between 4w3 and 7w6? I also just took another Enneagram test (purportedly one of the better ones) and got Type 3 Sx completely and then Type 7 Sx next. Type 4 is way below them, below 8 AND 2! =/ Weird, huh?
    Idea: Take the eclecticenergies test here: http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/test-2.php and post (or PM me if you prefer) the FULL results.

    Since this test shows you the full range of your answers and the likelihood of ALL types, it's often helpful to look at the secondary energies which "connect" to adjacent types, wings, lines of integration & disintegration, as well as the strength of specific triads in your results.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I can't claim to have been being perfectly objective, but I did my best.

    You are most likely a type 4 (the Individualist) with 3 wing
    Sexual variant


    Type 4 SX

    Type 7 SO

    Type 3 SX

    Type 6 SX

    Type 2 SP

    Type 9 SX

    Type 8 SX

    Type 1 SP

    Type 5 SX
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  30. #30
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    I tried to answer the questions with reference to my behavior throughout my whole life as opposed to how I see myself/think others see me at the current time.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  31. #31
    redbaron's Avatar
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    I think you definitely could be a 4.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    aka-kitsune's Avatar
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    Looking at those results, I'd have to say either 4w3 sx/so or 7w6 so/sx. They seem to appear equally possible theoretically. Although, I'd think type 1 would be stronger in your makeup if you are indeed a 4. That's normally a pretty consistent indicator, even with 4w3s.

    Interestingly, type 1 is also the point at which 4s and 7s "meet". I've noticed this is usually the place where individuals of these types tend to overlap. 7s usually have a chivalric and idealistic side to their generally "wild abandon" personalities and 4s may particularly respect this tiny oasis of formal "romantic" behaviour as likemindedness.

    Either way, you're quite likely self-pres last.

    I will still lean towards 7w6, because I still think you're an extravert and seem externally experience-oriented in a very way, rather than an internal landscape way.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Fearing rejection would make me lose too many opportunities for good things, so it's completey rational imho not to fear rejection or emotional pain. Perhaps I just automatically don't grow particularly attached to things and, since it's always been this way since I was born, I cannot notice the difference.

    Generally though, I think that even if my partner were to leave me, I'll just go on with my life, of course after grieving a bit.
    Interesting. Very pragmatic.

    I think you've hit upon a key theme for type 7. Not getting attached or relying on people too much. Sevens always know there will be more experiences/opportunities; their strategy becomes that of not depending on anything or anyone to the degree that its loss would devastate them. They also often get in the habit of having "backup" strategies as well as "trapdoors" in many situations. Their various means of distraction can be very well justified and rationalized.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

  34. #34
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Looking at those results, I'd have to say either 4w3 sx/so or 7w6 so/sx. They seem to appear equally possible theoretically. Although, I'd think type 1 would be stronger in your makeup if you are indeed a 4. That's normally a pretty consistent indicator, even with 4w3s.
    I think if I am a 4, I am most likely so first. The only type I could see myself as an sx/so stacking of would be 3.

    Speaking of which, why not 3w4 sx/so for me? I am still considering EIE as a type for myself, and it would account more my alleged "extroverted" behavior.

    Interestingly, type 1 is also the point at which 4s and 7s "meet". I've noticed this is usually the place where individuals of these types tend to overlap. 7s usually have a chivalric and idealistic side to their generally "wild abandon" personalities and 4s may particularly respect this tiny oasis of formal "romantic" behaviour as likemindedness.

    Either way, you're quite likely self-pres last.

    I will still lean towards 7w6, because I still think you're an extravert and seem externally experience-oriented in a very way, rather than an internal landscape way.
    Internal landscape...

    Have you read this stuff?

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...7&postcount=67

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...72&postcount=3

    Anyways, I do have a fairly strong connection to 1 in terms of perfectionism; I talk about it all the time with reference to my enneagram type.

    As far as experience-orientation, well, for me experience is more like a part of building the "story" of my life. I try not to just experience something once and then let it slide back into the place where I forget things; I like to look back and reflect on my experiences and see where they land me in the scheme of my life.

    As a side note, I think I take a 7-like approach to dealing with the 4 fixation, but at my core I still deal with emotions and my internal world the way a 4 does. I also think I have a rather strong connection to 3 for a 7; 7s seem like they don't really give a fuck by nature, whereas I tend to have to make a little bit more of a point of not caring what other people think about me.

    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Interesting. Very pragmatic.

    I think you've hit upon a key theme for type 7. Not getting attached or relying on people too much. Sevens always know there will be more experiences/opportunities; their strategy becomes that of not depending on anything or anyone to the degree that its loss would devastate them. They also often get in the habit of having "backup" strategies as well as "trapdoors" in many situations. Their various means of distraction can be very well justified and rationalized.
    Again, I do try not to get attached to people or rely on them to much, but that's more of something I've had to learn in order to deal with the conditions in my life; in reality I'm quite prone to getting overly attached to people or places.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  35. #35
    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    As a side note, I think I take a 7-like approach to dealing with the 4 fixation, but at my core I still deal with emotions and my internal world the way a 4 does. I also think I have a rather strong connection to 3 for a 7; 7s seem like they don't really give a fuck by nature, whereas I tend to have to make a little bit more of a point of not caring what other people think about me.
    Yeah, I'm going by my experiences as a seven, but I can honestly say that I tend to not care by nature. It doesn't take much thought. And dealing with internal conflict is something that I avoid, but I do it subconsciously. It's like I want to block out that part so I just never think about touching it.

    Again, I do try not to get attached to people or rely on them to much, but that's more of something I've had to learn in order to deal with the conditions in my life; in reality I'm quite prone to getting overly attached to people or places.
    Well my avoidance of attachments is somewhat learned, though at this point in my life it's second nature. I definitely don't get attached to people or places at all. Again, I obviously can't speak for all 7s, but it manifests in a very definite fashion to. I just do not strong attachments to things, no ands ifs or buts. I come out swinging then back off hard because I need to move on to the next thing.
    ILE
    7w8 so/sp

    Very busy with work. Only kind of around.

  36. #36
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    See it's not natural to me at all I tend to make like a "zone" everywhere I go; I stayed in a hotel room for a week between living with my sister and moving into my apartment, and after a week even that place felt like a safety zone or something, like it was my "nest."
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  37. #37
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    You are most likely a type 3 (the Achiever) with 4 wing

    Sexual variant


    Type 3 SX
    Type 4 SX
    Type 8 SX
    Type 7 SX
    Type 2 SX
    Type 1 SO
    Type 6 SX
    Type 5 SX
    Type 9 SX




    LOL


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
    Johari
    Nohari

  38. #38
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    God I'm reading Enneagram sites and I'm beginning to think that I don't identify with ANY of this shit

    I could almost go with Three, because I do tend to search for external validation by doing things like perfecting my skills at a job and soforth to stand out as the "best" worker. My performance in academia is almost a point for this, in a sense; would a Three be liable to hide from striving towards a goal if they "knew" that they could never attain it? Would they refrain from even entering the ring, so to speak, if they felt assured of failure before they began?
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  39. #39
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    In therapy I discovered and admitted to almost going to Africa with my dad to make him happy. That was one of the deepest psychological motivations I've ever been able to uncover about myself. That sounds more 3-ish to me.

    What I said above about the hotel room and such sounds a bit like object-attachment relations if I say so myself...

    ...clearly I am leaning towards three today...

    ...bah...

    ...identity triad ftw...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  40. #40
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    ...*vomit*...
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

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