View Poll Results: Poor logic the cause of mistypes/type-changing?

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Thread: Poor logic the cause of mistypes/type-changing?

  1. #1
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Poor logic the cause of mistypes/type-changing?

    Is it largely due to weak logic that people have a tendency to type-change?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    snegledmaca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Is it largely due to weak logic that people have a tendency to type-change?
    I'd say the main reason is a lack of proper understanding.

    EDIT: Which is not caused by poor logic.

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    For some it's that they don't understand the theory, but for some it's that they don't understand themselves. For many it's that their ego functions haven't been properly rewarded and they have therefore been "acting out of" other blocks.

    Also, understanding the theory and applying it are two different things. It takes practice to recognize information elements in use. For this reason it's very easy to be mistaken about one's own (or someone else's) type, even if you have a fair amount of knowledge/understanding about the theory and/or know yourself reasonably well.
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    implied's Avatar
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    i agree with snegledmaca on this. i think it's easy enough to do, especially in the beginning. or well, with so many different definitions of functions and such. anyhow, i don't see it as poor logic necessarily.
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    I think another common reason is the "isn't everyone like that?" factor.

    People tend to take their base function so much for granted that they don't even associate the usual definitions and descriptions of their function with what they take for granted - and those who don't use that function well are just "stupid" or "weak" or "boring " or etc etc.

    So they may hear about their true base function 1000 times, and still not recognize it as the window through which they view the world.
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    dbmmama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    I think another common reason is the "isn't everyone like that?" factor.

    People tend to take their base function so much for granted that they don't even associate the usual definitions and descriptions of their function with what they take for granted - and those who don't use that function well are just "stupid" or "weak" or "boring " or etc etc.

    So they may hear about their true base function 1000 times, and still not recognize it as the window through which they view the world.
    oh, i so agree with this! so what's the magic key to SEEING and recognizing it?

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    dbmmama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbmmama View Post
    oh, i so agree with this! so what's the magic key to SEEING and recognizing it?
    i went to wikisocion and read the leading function for each and the three that sounded the most like me were Te, Fi and Se.

    for my own understanding, i need to make it simplier for myself...

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    BLauritson's Avatar
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    Forgive me for throwing yet another spanner in the works, but be careful not to confuse valuing those functions with actually having them in the ego block.

    Actually, come to think of it, to help determine Se vs. Ne valuing, it might help to read up on Ni and Si also, and see what you think of those. Sorry, I know it's a lot to take in all at once, but I think you're on the right track to finding your type anyway.
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  9. #9
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbmmama View Post
    i went to wikisocion and read the leading function for each and the three that sounded the most like me were Te, Fi and Se.

    for my own understanding, i need to make it simplier for myself...
    You shouldn't need to do this. Seriously, if you understand yourself well enough, you should be able to go "shit, that is completely me" by looking at the leading function description.

    Intuition: you're SEE. I see you as similar to Danielle (liveandletlive) in your general way of being, and if you identify with Fi leading, then you may have that in the ego (Danielle has said that if she's SEE, she's "super super Fi subtype" (or something like that)). Just from my own observations of your over all tone and style, I'd rule out Te leading, but if you're an SEE, you value it by default, which could be the reason you think you're a Te leading type (Te HA).
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  10. #10
    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    You shouldn't need to do this. Seriously, if you understand yourself well enough, you should be able to go "shit, that is completely me" by looking at the leading function description.
    Ironic?
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    You shouldn't need to do this. Seriously, if you understand yourself well enough, you should be able to go "shit, that is completely me" by looking at the leading function description.

    Intuition: you're SEE. I see you as similar to Danielle (liveandletlive) in your general way of being, and if you identify with Fi leading, then you may have that in the ego (Danielle has said that if she's SEE, she's "super super Fi subtype" (or something like that)). Just from my own observations of your over all tone and style, I'd rule out Te leading, but if you're an SEE, you value it by default, which could be the reason you think you're a Te leading type (Te HA).
    i hear ya, it's the one i'm leaning toward the most.

    my mom and i are the same type, i believe and if she was/is Se leading, i DIDNT want to be like her,so, i developed other things along the way....i think that's skewing it for me. not wanting to be like my mom and wanting to be like my sister that my mom openly admitted to liking better than me...and i think my sis is ENFp.

    i was this crazy, hyper, sexually expressive tomboy little girl and she saw in me the stuff she didn't like in herself. so she did whatever to "knock me down a notch". it kept crushing my free spiritedness. so i went to Ni and Ne stuff to cope. all the while still fighting back with her.

    i've let go of the fight with her, but it hasn't gone away within myself to let me be myself more naturally.

    i'll figure it out.

  12. #12
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Given how typing is not a process with shines for its definiteness, and given that logic (supposing that the OP is referring to traditional formal logic) generally is used to derive correct conclusions from correct premises, I'd say that it's more likely that somebody is getting the premises wrong rather than the logic.
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    UDP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    I think another common reason is the "isn't everyone like that?" factor.

    People tend to take their base function so much for granted that they don't even associate the usual definitions and descriptions of their function with what they take for granted - and those who don't use that function well are just "stupid" or "weak" or "boring " or etc etc.

    So they may hear about their true base function 1000 times, and still not recognize it as the window through which they view the world.
    I think time spent in groups composed of members mostly of one quadra can help in this. If you get a lot of different experiences in mostly alpha, delta, beta, or gamma, you can start figuring things out. Or at least start to realize the major divides of Te/Fi vs Fe/Ti, and, Si/Ne vs Se/Ni.


    It can at least begin to make you realize that things are "different" here. Especially times spent with opposing quadras.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  14. #14
    Board philosopher or bored philosopher? jason_m's Avatar
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    I think another problem is that the descriptions aren't consistent. It makes it difficult to type yourself; you see too many possibilities. For instance, the INTj description on socionics.com and the one on Wikisocion talk about very different things. People might associate with one description, but not the other. This makes it more difficult to determine your type.

    Jason

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Is it largely due to weak logic that people have a tendency to type-change?
    Just about every information element in a weak function could potentially lead to mistyping.

    Fi: You don't know exactly what you truly like or how you relate to things.
    Te: You don't know how to effectively apply what understanding you have.
    Fe: You have no idea what signals you are sending nor can you read the signals of others.
    Ti: You have little idea as to how the pieces fit together. Why are things the way that they are?

    Ni: You don't comprehend how you seem to work in a temporal flow.
    Se: You don't know what to look for when you see it, leaving you oblivious to what is in plain sight.
    Ne: You don't understand the inner essences of the theory or of others.
    Si: You don't know how you operate in a given dynamic physical environment.

    Hopefully, it should be easy to show how potential shortcomings in at least half of these areas could lead to mistypings.

  16. #16
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    well said logos.

    another angle is that temperaments are what stand out most...and there is one of each temperament in each quadra....easy to confuse temperaments with types. like, i could easily confuse my type ILE with SLE or SEE or IEE since the temperments all kind of look similar.

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    Define "LOGIC".
    Poor logic the cause of mistypes/type-changing?

    Some people here have the misconception that logic is solely limited to being a T thing. If thats the case maybe F Types should not work on this poll as they have no logic. (or very, very limited logic)
    ENTP:wink:ALPHA

  18. #18
    Steve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    (Danielle has said that if she's SEE, she's "super super Fi subtype" (or something like that))
    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca View Post
    I'd say the main reason is a lack of proper understanding.

    EDIT: Which is not caused by poor logic.
    ...

    Ask any Fi types around here (such as JuJu) if they'd ever be as outwardly expressive and affect the emotional mood of settings the way Danielle does.

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