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    Default Physical Presence

    I was pondering today the effect that physical presence has on individuals and consequently on how someone uses their IMs to interact with others. I thought taking it to the forum might stimulate some interesting discussion.

    As a particularly tall, not very shy, and intellectually demanding female, I've always seemed to demand a lot of deference in those around me without actually trying. For whatever reason, my stature coupled with my confidence appears to intimidate others despite the fact that I'm generally a very inclusive and genial individual. It doesn't seem to matter where I go. I walk into a room and all eyes are on me, or I walk into the bank on a busy afternoon and someone will come and deal with me ahead of several others. This thought really hit home today when I was on the elevator and noticed, not for the first time, that no matter who is on the elevator (male or female) or where I am everyone always lets me off first. It's so bizarre.

    With direct interaction (like a party or hanging with friends, etc) the effects of physical presence become the most apparent to me. People always seem to be scrambling to make sure I'm happy or defer to me on everything. It also puts me in a place where everyone expects that I'll be in control of things. Basically they slip me into this Se slot where I'm going to make all the decisions and direct the plans of the day, etc. God, it's the worst with men. I won't even get started on that. It confuses me a lot. Consequently, as a measure to counter-balance the intimidating effect of my presence, I've learned to channel mass amount of Fe/Si when initially meeting people to try to put them at ease. It's almost automatic to me now, but it's also really annoying. If I don't do the Fe/Si dance, and just be my regular ENTp self, the people I meet seem to see me with some kind of strange reverence. "Wow, Vero is so amazing *googly eyes*" or they compliment me constantly on this that or the other thing. It's really frustrating because I don't see myself that way, I don't think I'm particularly amazing or domineering, and I just want to be a normal regular person.

    Anyways, how does physical presence effect you? Does it change how you naturally want to direct the use of your valued functions? For instance, a lot of people talk about small-man syndrome. How does your physical presence affect the way people interact with you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    I was pondering today the effect that physical presence has on individuals and consequently on how someone uses their IMs to interact with others. I thought taking it to the forum might stimulate some interesting discussion.

    As a particularly tall, not very shy, and intellectually demanding female, I've always seemed to demand a lot of deference in those around me without actually trying. For whatever reason, my stature coupled with my confidence appears to intimidate others despite the fact that I'm generally a very inclusive and genial individual. It doesn't seem to matter where I go. I walk into a room and all eyes are on me, or I walk into the bank on a busy afternoon and someone will come and deal with me ahead of several others. This thought really hit home today when I was on the elevator and noticed, not for the first time, that no matter who is on the elevator (male or female) or where I am everyone always lets me off first. It's so bizarre.

    With direct interaction (like a party or hanging with friends, etc) the effects of physical presence become the most apparent to me. People always seem to be scrambling to make sure I'm happy or defer to me on everything. It also puts me in a place where everyone expects that I'll be in control of things. Basically they slip me into this Se slot where I'm going to make all the decisions and direct the plans of the day, etc. God, it's the worst with men. I won't even get started on that. It confuses me a lot. Consequently, as a measure to counter-balance the intimidating effect of my presence, I've learned to channel mass amount of Fe/Si when initially meeting people to try to put them at ease. It's almost automatic to me now, but it's also really annoying. If I don't do the Fe/Si dance, and just be my regular ENTp self, the people I meet seem to see me with some kind of strange reverence. "Wow, Vero is so amazing *googly eyes*" or they compliment me constantly on this that or the other thing. It's really frustrating because I don't see myself that way, I don't think I'm particularly amazing or domineering, and I just want to be a normal regular person.

    Anyways, how does physical presence effect you? Does it change how you naturally want to direct the use of your valued functions? For instance, a lot of people talk about small-man syndrome. How does your physical presence affect the way people interact with you?
    Not in the least. I rarely notice height. I think it's a bunch of insecure people that you interact with, really.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

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    <something> Wynch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Not in the least. I rarely notice height. I think it's a bunch of insecure people that you interact with, really.
    The world?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    The world?
    Maybe your world.

    All I know is, I have like 2-3 (girl) friends that are as tall as you are and I don't do any of that shit for them. I mean, I mostly thought "Doesn't that get annoying?", like, your height being pointed out? So I don't do it.

    Funny enough, one was a post feminist..feminist too. I think that was the term.
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    I notice height when someone is significantly taller or shorter than me (like by 6 inches or more), but I don't make assumptions about people from that alone. I've known some really tall people that I wouldn't want to be itching for my blood, and I've known others that are some of the nicest people I've met. So meh. I normally associate "physical presence" with Se though - there are some short people that have more of a physical presence than the tall nice people I mentioned before.

    Anyway. So how tall are you, mn0?
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    5'11 plus change w/o shoes.

    Like I said, I don't understand this presence dealio myself. I don't think it's really a logical thing. It's just something I've observed over time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    5'11 plus change w/o shoes.

    Like I said, I don't understand this presence dealio myself. I don't think it's really a logical thing. It's just something I've observed over time.
    I'd say don't stress about it. People who actually care about you will sooner or later forget you're that tall, trust me.

    That being said, I would've never guessed 5'11. Nice.
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    I've never really noticed much in physical presence, except in a more intangible sense, like the people who walk around exuding that kind of outward energy that seems to demand obedience. Most of my bias against Se has probably been from seeing hugely arrogant uses of that whole deal (if this is Se I'm even talking about). Basically I get on well with pretty much anyone who doesn't throw their weight around recklessly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luis
    I'd say don't stress about it. People who actually care about you will sooner or later forget you're that tall, trust me.

    That being said, I would've never guessed 5'11. Nice.
    I don't really concern myself about it with my friends. It doesn't happen with the people who actually know me well. It's just an annoying thing to deal with when you're an Si-seeking ENTp. I just want you to be comfortable with me, is that so much to ask?

    And yeah, height doesn't really come across well on camera, lol.

    But, this was not supposed to be a thread about me being tall. I wanted to know how other people found their physical presence effects others, or if it does at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by mune
    I've never really noticed much in physical presence, except in a more intangible sense, like the people who walk around exuding that kind of outward energy that seems to demand obedience. Most of my bias against Se has probably been from seeing hugely arrogant uses of that whole deal (if this is Se I'm even talking about). Basically I get on well with pretty much anyone who doesn't throw their weight around recklessly.
    Apparently I walk around exuding Se, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    I don't really concern myself about it with my friends. It doesn't happen with the people who actually know me well. It's just an annoying thing to deal with when you're an Si-seeking ENTp. I just want you to be comfortable with me, is that so much to ask?

    And yeah, height doesn't really come across well on camera, lol.

    But, this was not supposed to be a thread about me being tall. I wanted to know how other people found their physical presence effects others, or if it does at all.
    Ah ok.


    As for me, no, I'm short, but I rarely notice being short. Other people always think I'm taller than i am too. So, it's win for me I spose.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    But, this was not supposed to be a thread about me being tall. I wanted to know how other people found their physical presence effects others, or if it does at all.
    I don't think it does... At least not in the same way. I would say I'm not imposing at all. Probably the opposite.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mn0good View Post
    Apparently I walk around exuding Se, lol.
    Well, I think that can depend. There are very legitimate reasons to expect to be obeyed (rank, responsibility, recognized talent) and there are legitimate reasons to expect to follow someone's lead (like "Wow, this lady has really got her shit together! I'll do as she does", etc). I don't know about your case though, since it sounds like an immediate perception without them knowing you. So hmm...

    Also, I don't have a physical presence really. I'm too busy pulling stuff in to put anything out. The height thing might be worth considering though, since taller people tend to make more money than everyone else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mune
    The height thing might be worth considering though, since taller people tend to make more money than everyone else.
    Is that a statistically verifiable fact? That might be interesting if it's true.
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    mn0good, your post smells like indirect self promotion.

    Anyways, I usually get out of elevators and doors before others. Not because I intimidate them with my mighty posture but because I have faster reactions. Hah.

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    Well, I think we're selectively breeding ourselves to become taller - I don't have statistics to back it up, but check out the doorknobs in old houses and see what I mean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro View Post
    Well, I think we're selectively breeding ourselves to become taller - I don't have statistics to back it up, but check out the doorknobs in old houses and see what I mean.
    Might be just changes in nutrition? Asians in US are taller than Asians in Asia. At the same time they are developing "western style" health problems which their Asian cousins don't have. Modern western food might kill you younger but it makes you taller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX View Post
    Might be just changes in nutrition? Asians in US are taller than Asians in Asia. At the same time they are developing "western style" health problems which their Asian cousins don't have. Modern western food might kill you younger but it makes you taller.
    Hmm, this is a good point - I remember reading that somewhere too.
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    yeah i am not typical asian in my body type.

    well i think when Se polr is really bad, its really bad. i dont think that presence has to do with physicalness. I dont really notice that, even tallness or anything like that, unless someone is EXTREMELY tall or EXTREMELY large. I think I'm more sensitive to color. And being beautiful or sexily dressed. I think I naturally pay attention more to Si Fe things.. and i perceive that others react to me differently when i look good in an Si Fe way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX
    mn0good, your post smells like indirect self promotion.
    You're welcome to your opinion and your impressions, of course, but I don't really understand what the point would be of promoting myself here. I was trying to explain my own experience to see if others had had similar experiences. I find that some people respond better to a direct question like the end of my post and others prefer the story so they can say "Yeah, I know how this is! This is what happened to me..." or "No, I don't find that at all" (as was the case here).

    That being said, you're not the first person to say that when I use the story angle I sound like I'm self-promoting. Note to self: change tactics when trying to stimulate conversation...

    Anyways, I usually get out of elevators and doors before others. Not because I intimidate them with my mighty posture but because I have faster reactions. Hah
    Haha, well done. I'm usually pretty antsy to get off too. Maybe that's part of the issue with the elevators, some "ok, let's get the f*** off this elevator now" body language.

    Actually, it's interesting that people are often slow to move off an elevator (where it's really crowded) but on a bus everyone is in an all-fired hurry to get off. People lose all sense of common courtesy on a bus for some reason. I've never understood that.
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    if we were a couple Vero I'd cut your shins off then attach your feet to your knees so you could fit into the world better, that's how much I'd care

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    What they've found is that it relates (at least for men) with height in high school, interestingly enough. If a guy was short in high school and then had a growth spurt to become tall later, he earned like a short man. Those that hit their full height early and were tall in high school, and then didn't grow any more and remained average earned like tall men. Which suggests it has something to do with self perception more than anything. I don't know how it is for women, but most women don't grow much if at all after high school. Both tall men and women earn more and receive more promotions than short men and women.
    Wow, that's actually really interesting.


    Americans had a growth period, and for awhile tall and broad-shouldered people were more likely Americans than anyone else. Other countries are now far outpacing us in height, where we in general are no longer continuing the upward trend, while other countries are.

    I own a 100 year old house in ND, and the doorknobs really aren't noticibly lower, maybe an inch or two, and it has all the original doors with the original brass doorknobs. The ceilings are higher though (9' instead of the standard 8' most houses nowadays are built with).
    I find old houses have really low ceilings in the stairwells, which are really dangerous if you're any taller than about 5'9 or 5'10. They're mostly better now, but there are still some that are low enough that, within the 6'0 range you're cringing and expecting to hit your head, and if you're any taller than 6'2, you're hitting your head.

    And clothes. They still don't like to make clothes for tall people easily available

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by BG
    if we were a couple Vero I'd cut your shins off then attach your feet to your knees so you could fit into the world better, that's how much I'd care
    Wow, thanks BG. Nice to know someone is looking out for me with a saw an some antiseptic in hand.
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    Wow, that's pretty tall too. And that's it exactly, the downstairs run. Or low-hanging dining room fixtures. We have one in our house with no table under it that's at just the right height that I don't see it, but I always hit my head on it.
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    I have noticed the physical presence thing too.
    I'm not particularly tall - 5'7" - but people often assume I'm several inches taller. I've even had a couple SOs who in the early part of the relationship thought I was as tall or taller than them, even though I wasn't!
    I'm told by my mother that I have always carried myself with apparent confidence. Might have a lot to do with growing up in a semi-rural neighborhood where I could roam freely from about age 5 ... or that I'm so self-contained that I don't seem to be asking for anything in most social situations ... or that I've proven to myself my consistency in figuring out efficient, accurate methods of whatever needs to be done ...
    who the hell really knows, though. I think there's a lot of sheeple around; those of us actually trying to shake off the tendency to sleepwalk instead of gratefully operating according to it are practically fringe elements. At least (what my SO terms) the 95% aren't overly afraid of us - you know what happens to mob mentality when fear leaks in!
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    The original post didn't seem like a bad thing, I'm not understanding your problem with it..? I wish people noticed me like that. People don't notice me. Or I don't notice them noticing me. Only when I wear my wonderbras.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I wish people noticed me like that. People don't notice me. Or I don't notice them noticing me.
    I think the second part is really wtf is wrong with us.
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    I have no physical presence at all, and if I do I suppose it's that of a weak helpless person. People are always trying to baby me, and help me out with stuff that I don't need help with (stuff as simple as turning on a light...); it gets really irritating.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I have no physical presence at all, and if I do I suppose it's that of a weak helpless person. People are always trying to baby me, and help me out with stuff that I don't need help with (stuff as simple as turning on a light...); it gets really irritating.
    good job on finding the Reply button all on your own!

    *pats Starfall on the head reassuringly*



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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post

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    Well, I'm barely 5'1'', but I don't think my height affects the way people treat me - in any great degree anyway. Some people probably think of me as younger than I am because of it, but apart from that .... I don't think I treat people any different depending on their height. I have a SLE friend who's 6 ft and I've never felt the need to defer to her based on her height. We probably look funny together though. Lol. I would be more likely to defer to people who don't seem to be that physically confident. If you have a commanding physical presence, you can take care of yourself. Lol.
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    I think it might be about confidence also. I'm pretty tall (5'10") and not until recently have I seemed to command attention when I walk into a room and I'm sure it's because I'm a lot more confident now than I ever have been before. I HAVE noticed, however, that when I wear HEELS, I get even more attention. Cause them I'm like over 6-feet tall. The first time this happened (which was recent), I got a huge kick out of it. I couldn't believe all the attention! I'm not usually an attention-seeker (certainly not someone who would actively do anything to get attention in situations like that). But it was so much fun wearing the heels that I went out and bought another pair.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I think it might be about confidence also. I'm pretty tall (5'10") and not until recently have I seemed to command attention when I walk into a room and I'm sure it's because I'm a lot more confident now than I ever have been before. I HAVE noticed, however, that when I wear HEELS, I get even more attention. Cause them I'm like over 6-feet tall. The first time this happened (which was recent), I got a huge kick out of it. I couldn't believe all the attention! I'm not usually an attention-seeker (certainly not someone who would actively do anything to get attention in situations like that). But it was so much fun wearing the heels that I went out and bought another pair.
    I recently purchased a pair of serious heels and have noticed an increase in the number of things I've gotten for free. The guy who works in the subway I frequent hooks me up with free lunch. He even gives me extra chicken and pickles!!! Hell, between me stealing my fat coworkers food and wearing my heels to get free food and getting friends to cook me dinner, I can't remember the last time i actually paid for food!

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    Hells , as im sure you know, make your legs look longer and your butt stick out... It kinda doesn't matter, the height. For us. For you girls it does.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

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    I tower over most guys when i wear heels and i can tell it makes some uncomfortable. If not uncomfortable, they're in some sort of trance around a tall female. My ex bf forbid me to wear them because he was like 5'1, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I tower over most guys when i wear heels and i can tell it makes some uncomfortable. If not uncomfortable, they're in some sort of trance around a tall female. My ex bf forbid me to wear them because he was like 5'1, lol.
    I like me some amazonians. But then again I ain't 5'1.

    Heh funny you brought it up though, one of my old gfs was my height and she never wore heels cuz SHE was the one who was weirded out if she was taller.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

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    I don't know about my physical presence, I guess it's average in comparison to the whole population. I haven't noticed any particular phenomenon of people deferring to on the basis of my physical appearance; whenever it happened, it was due to a skill I had that other's hadn't.

    I don't think I'm very affected by others physical presence, unless we're talking about extreme (a mountain-man 6'5'' and 240 lbs or a midget).
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    I know a guy who's 6'5'', but he certainly doesn't have a commanding physical presence. He's shy and sort of stoops like he's embarrassed about his height. It's all about the way you carry yourself IMO. My mother's quite short, but the way she can get big guys catering to her demands is funny.
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    I guess there is some truth to the heal thing; woman who wear them do seem more confident and intimidating somehow... heals are hot.

    Now that I think about it I guess tall people are a bit more intimidating, interesting.
    Last edited by fox; 06-21-2008 at 10:03 AM.
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