: Pushing
: Touching
: Looking around
: Looking ahead
: "How are you feeling?"
: "How are you doing?"
: "What does this do?"
: "How does this work?"
Information Elements
the
SEE Unknown Subtype
6w7 sx/so
[21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
[21:29] hitta: and not dying
.
^
|_____or the
I like the N/S ones a lot though.
Weird, I thought the Fe/Fi and Te/Ti ones were both better than the other two.
I don't see a lot of contrast with the Fi/Fe and Ti/Te ones...
How does this work and what does this do... seem sort of like the same question to me...
How do you feel and how are you doing also sort of seem like the same question to me...
When I read the N/S ones I think that's an apple; that's an orange. Clear.
When I read the F/T ones I think that's a Golden Delicious apple (light green, like sawdust) and that's a Granny Smith apple (dark green, more tart)... both green apples... close enough...
the whole post sucks
Sucks as in it's bad, or sucks as in the thing no woman will ever do to your virgin cock?Originally Posted by crazedrat
I still think the Feeling and Thinking descriptions are pretty good.
Fe is more concerned with the outer emotional state, and Fi with the inner state of wellbeing. So, while an Fi type and an Fe type may both easily notice that someone isn't feeling good, the Fe type will be most concerned with "cheering up" the person, making them "look on the bright side," while the Fi type will be less inclined to cheer the person up and more inclined to "get to the bottom" of what they perceive as an underlying problem that was conveyed by the person by "not feeling good". Both types may be inclined to "switch" to the other's preferred style in certain situations.
(sorry about all these quotation marks)
Te is more concerned with the practical application of something, and so asks "What is this for? How will this help? Why should I do that?" Ti, on the other hand, sees internal analysis and "deep" comprehension as being more important than Te questions of practicality, which it often sees as arbitrary and shortsighted. It asks, "How does this work? How does it fit into my understanding? What is the reason for this?"
That's roughshod, but I think it works overall.
That seems more of a Ti question since it seems to want an explanation or justification of action.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
This actually makes a lot of sense to me. Reading this has helped me differentiate between Fi and Fe better than any descriptions I've read and I've been reading a lot of them lately. I've always thought I was Fi>Fe, but this definitely confirms it. Well put!
what about the words commonly used for describing these HAs?
I always thought understanding was a good word for Ti. but also consistency.
heh.. isnt she female?
Good post! Except maybe the Sensing ones are too limited
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Yeah, you could be right. I get a headache when I think about Te v Ti too much.
lmao
There is always a very fine line that exists between similar functions (Fe v Fi, Te v Ti, etc.) since each function effectively requires the other side to operate.
I would think that is better to say that Fe is more concerned with the dynamic emotional state of people, while Fi is more concerned about the state of emotional relationships between people. Fe will be more concerned with paying attention and adjusting the emotional states of themselves and people around them. If Te is the efficiency of action and objects, Fe would be the efficiency of expression and emotions. Fi would then said to be more concerned about determining, maintaining, and attending to the emotional links that exist between people. It is a difference of emphasis really. For the Fe-user, since emotional states are considered dynamic, Fi is believed to be strengthened through a Fe-process, whereas for the Fi-user, since emotional states are considered static, Fe is believed to be brought around by making strong emotional bonds through a Fi-process. Both the Fe and Fi person may be inclined to get to the "bottom of the matter" in emotional troubles, but they would have different methods to do so.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Fi fields don't necessarily have to be between people. "I like beets" is a Fi statement.
Yes. But as the Fe example dealt with other people, I decided to carry that over to the Fi statement. "Beets make me happy," would be an Fe statement.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
A purely Fe statement would be "I'm happy" without any connection to anything else.
But Fe deals with the internal dynamics of external objects, so it is more than saying "I'm happy," just like Fi is more than simply "I like it."
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
Objects, meaning that it doesn't deal with connections/relationships.
"I like it" would be a complete Fi statement because "it" is what it's connected to. Fields deal with connections/relationships.just like Fi is more than simply "I like it."
A beet is an object.
Yes, but my point is that you are almost trying to reduce Fe to a relatively meaningless concept that amounts to nothing more than feeling good."I like it" would be a complete Fi statement because "it" is what it's connected to. Fields deal with connections/relationships.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
but how is saying "beets make me happy" referring to the internal dynamics of the beet?
Yes. And if you're talking about what a beet is, it's Se. If you're talking about what it's doing, it's Te.
However, once you connect it to something else, then we're dealing with a field. A person liking beets is a connection/relationship.
"I'm happy" an example, not a summary or a definition.Yes, but my point is that you are almost trying to reduce Fe to a relatively meaningless concept that amounts to nothing more than feeling good.
But you are making it so that Fe is completely worthless as an information element when talking about non-human objects.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
No, it's worthless when talking about inanimate objects as an information aspect.
Information elements are never used one at a time though, so they can be combined with Fi, Ni, Si, or Ti when they're being applied to a situation in which they're some time of connection/relationship.
edit: My point though was that when giving an example of Fe, it's better to try to do so without using fields. And my initial point was about "Fi would then said to be more concerned about determining, maintaining, and attending to the emotional links that exist between people", which is why I was trying to say that Fi is about connections between a person and an inanimate object or situation (such as what discojoe was talking about) as it is a connection between two people.
btw, have you ever noticed that you and I tend to go in circles when we talk?
Yes, you are making Fe the MOST WORTHLESS INFORMATION ASPECT. It deals with external objects, but then you are making it such a limited information aspect. Screw being an Alpha NT. I have no plans of "desiring" such a useless and limited information aspect. I'm officially joining Gamma now.
But Fi would thereby have far more application to everything as long as there is a self and external object with which to make a connection. Therefore, Fe is absolutely worthless as an aspect when compared to Fi.Information elements are never used one at a time though, so they can be combined with Fi, Ni, Si, or Ti when they're being applied to a situation in which they're some time of connection/relationship.
But I never have that problem with Asha or Expat. Strange.btw, have you ever noticed that you and I tend to go in circles when we talk?
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
LOL, so that's what this is all about. I had a hunch it was something like that. More passive aggressive bitching, essentially.
Negative. All are equally important and valuable and whatnot.But Fi would thereby have far more application to everything as long as there is a self and external object with which to make a connection. Therefore, Fe is absolutely worthless as an aspect when compared to Fi.
Not at all, Joy, and I dislike false accusations such as those. So would you please restrain yourself from doing so in the future? I am merely pointing out the comparative worthlessness of Fe. Fi is not only a more stable information element, but also one that provides guidance for as long as there is a self and an object. This utility is not present in Fe, which is only good for telling me that I am happy, as if I need Fe to even tell me that.
Edit: What are you talking about? What is the this to which you are referring? If you are going to belittle me and make potentially false accusations regarding my motives, then I would at least like to have a better idea of what you are talking about.
Sugarcoated bullshit. Then tell me what use is Fe when dealing with inanimate objects? If Fi has much greater utility at dealing with the external world, then how can Fe be said to be of equal value as Fi?Negative. All are equally important and valuable and whatnot.
Just for curiosity sake I checked out the Fe article on the Wikisocion, fun stuff:
Fe Base
Fe CreativeHe perceives reality primarily through the prism of the external emotional atmosphere around him, mainly but not exclusively from the other people present. For instance, the "vibe" given off by a particular place, landscape, work of art, movie etc will also be registered as very significant for him.
As I said, Fe CAN and DOES deal with inanimate objects without acting as a field.The person is sensitive to the emotional atmosphere around him, either from an individual, or a group, or even from inanimate objects such as the landscape, the state of the physical environment he happens to be in, or his own emotional associations with the place or people around him.
Last edited by Logos; 06-13-2008 at 03:40 AM.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
No, saying the beet is happy makes you legally insane.
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
.
I don't wish to continue debating aspects vs. elements. The topic was supposed to be about elements anyways, and my only point was that Fi doesn't have to involve more than one person. It's about the relationship between a person (or animal, I suppose) and something, anything, else.
I'm sorry if what I said pissed you off. I must have misunderstood your comment about Alpha?
juices are external, in the socionics sense of the word
<strokes the History Eraser button>
"I wonder what this does?"
SLI
according to these defs i'm
i push not touch
i look ahead not around
i know what i like
i look at facts more than whatever Ti is, even though i try so hard to do it.
that's it, i'm done. i'm ESFp. off to play now.
This post brought to you by Ti.according to these defs i'm
i push not touch
i look ahead not around
i know what i like
i look at facts more than whatever Ti is, even though i try so hard to do it.
that's it, i'm done. i'm ESFp. off to play now.
Ti. You'll analyze yourself into a paradoxical loop with no beginning or end and blink out of existence.
Fun, isn't it?
Johari Box"Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
or i just say FUCK IT and go live my life.
I'ma just post here and say do what u gotta do so there.
question yourself, but don't cling to the doubts so much
that's the hard part
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
i have a natural tendency toward doubt in certain things in my life though....i absolutely know what is important to me, what i value, what i'm passionate about, but the doubt is not about WHO i am but about UNDERSTANDING who i am. i question it too much and get myself in trouble. when i don't question and don't think too much, i'm happy. then there's no doubt because i'm not questioning anything in the first place to doubt.
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