Eckhart Tolle

[Gilly]

God I love this guy. His book has helped me so much. INxx, EII>IEI>LII>ILI IMO.

[UDP]

I posted him a long time ago on the forum, no one heard of him then. I'm glad others have now. I kept promoting "A New Earth", after I first read it.

I could see him as EII. His voice sounds possibly EII.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

This sounds fancy pants but in reality he's actually full of shit. I was so psyched up about what he was teaching I tried to apply it in real life situations and I got into so much trouble. The truth is looking ahead is very important in life. Just living in the moment too much brings too many painful consequences. And the mind is unfortunately how we establish a stable society. There's nothing really pretty or enlightening about it, but it's not about that- it's just a necessary evil because it is what works.

I mean just try it. Try to do what he says. Try to just embrace the inner Now and shit like that. Tell me if it brings you this key to success or whatever. I think he's just BSing personally. If you want to truly attain a valuable thing in life, it requires tons of reflection and looking to the future and also studying the past so you don't make the same mistakes again. That's how learning and growth happens.

He's just trying to find a way to accept the overly sensor go-getter types instead of realizing they were never that correct in the first place and he should be more comfortable in what he already knows would be true instead of just what will look good to the masses. (Most people like fast cars, quick money and sex and that's why his pop-psychology fan wanker theory applies to so many selfish, nihilistic, Oprah spoon-fed Americans) He looks very awkward and gimpish like he got made fun of a lot in grade school. Bet my life on it.

I feel sorry for him in a way. He's deeply sensitive, and I admire that in people but that doesn't really change anything or give you a special purpose in the world or make you a spiritual authority on much of anything. It's just a good quality because it's so rare these days. Believe me I have thoughts like him all the time, and I'm most likely his identical. So believe me when I say the guy is full of shit and he really just wants compassion and lots of friends. He's just *lonely* and he wants some of the love that he gave over the years but just got bullied instead.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Don't exaggerate what I said though. The guy clearly is smart about stuff, but the here in the now thing needs to be applied with a GRAIN OF SALT. It's not the key or secret to life. It's just one small part of the puzzle and he's dragging it on and on - making it sound like he needs to go out and just get laid for a weekend. But, he would have to idealize that in some way or it feels wrong. We're all like that though.

I love in the Power of Now where he talked about how men have 'mind issues' and women have 'body-pain' issues. I talk about that too. Gonzo porn and stuff turns men on visually but that's all it does. It's like this phantom jokester that smiles at us but never really satisfies us completely. The faster, the more dominant, the rougher- we men like that. But in reality the stuff that's actually good for us appears softer and docile. There's nothing that powerful about it. It's like, eating tofu makes you feel like a San Francisco pussy but it's actually much better for you than red meat.

The rough stuff heals some things in the mind and it releases some mind tension where we can't physically control things, so it's still important but many men make a lifestyle out of it.

Remember the best stories are ones that use concrete details (not even analogies) to describe what something is like, not abstract phrases. Because when you use abstractions like good/evil right/wrong you end up sounding like a condescending, judgmental asscunt. The truth is 'Now' is still too subjective. Now what? Now of what time? I'M IN THE NOW AND I GAINED THIS REALLY COOL SUPER POWER. IT ALLOWS ME TO SEE MEN NAKED.

[Gilly]

He's not trying to say that he has the answer to all problems in life. He's just trying to help people accept reality for what it is and realize the essentials of meditation and what enlightenment refers to. He's helping westernize the eastern philosophies of "no-mind." Obviously this is not very useful in a day-to-day setting where we need to harness our minds and use them for their positive potentials: everyday tasks, our work, etc. At that point we need to use our minds actively in order to participate in society.

If you want to become a spiritual guru or monk, however, then yes, his principles are very useful for day-to-day living. Otherwise the mind is obviously a necessary tool.

[Gilly]

But, he would have to idealize that in some way or it feels wrong.

Maybe a good insight. Beta NF-ery ftw...?

[Ritella]

My guess is IEI.
I could only read like the first 5 pages of his book. It just seemed really vague, wishy-washy, how is he going to write more on this?, does he even have a main point?, all this is sort of obvious and bs-y....
Anyway, that's sort of the reaction I have to most writings by my quasis so...

[Gilly]

I know this sounds retarded, but if you can suspend your disbelief and disregard the new-agey feel of the book overall, and take it for what it's really worth, well, it's helped me accomplish things I never would have dreamed possible.

[hellothere]

hmm sounds interesting. must look into his work

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Yeah but if I don't feel integrated in society in some way well- I just lose myself too much. I'm like that now. I've been a hermit for the past few years. And I feel kinda epic and 'deep' sometimes but well... I don't know, it's just lonely. Not that I was really all that while I was out doing real life things and having fun. Funny thing is I used to be kind of jealous of people like that but once I did them I thought they were lame kinda like 'omg this is it?' Not really a 'Oh this isn't so bad once I do it type thing' more like....no experience whatsoever can match my spiritual idealism so I'd much rather just sit in my room and write stories. =)

Well thanks for explaining things better. Hey lol maybe I am a spiritual guru or monk. I really act just like that guy in real life it's weird. But as I'm only 24 I have a long way to go before I'm at Tolle's level.

For me I have no desire to accomplish things so it doesn't really matter. I kinda just wanna be alive.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Btw if people want to hear about why I decided to become a hermit then go ahead. But there's nothing wrong with me it's all my choice. I'm not sick, it's just how I choose to live. I feel nothing really gives me the satisfaction... what is can never be as good as what could be. Even sex, meeting that person- going to my favorite place. It's all inherently disappointing. I'm not depressed though. More pensive and somber and just... deep. I really rub people the wrong way because I talk so seriously. I just want to like....create something so epic and big it changes the world so I'm like gathering energies. I promise it will happen. And it's something that will benefit all of humankind. I have to avoid a lot of like... unnecessary social shit for this to happen.

lol I know I'm not all that important. I don't have delusions of grandeur. This is just the way it needs to be done.

[JuJu]

The "Nirvana Moments" thread made him come to mind.

Gilly's first instinct was correct, I believe... INFj.

(The German accent makes him sound like a INTx, lol.)

[UDP]

My guess is IEI.
I could only read like the first 5 pages of his book. It just seemed really vague, wishy-washy, how is he going to write more on this?

You apparently don't understand the point of the book at all.

, does he even have a main point?

You really don't understand the book, at all.

[hellothere]

Gilly's first instinct was correct, I believe... INFj.

could you explain your reasons? or is it just a gut instinct?

(The German accent makes him sound like a INTx, lol.)

lol yeah, i know what you mean

[Ms. Kensington]

most of the time i think living in the present is a metaphor for Se. So I'd say INFp.

[hellothere]

I would be wary of typing him by the philosophy he teaches, because as gilly's noted, its not really anything very original (not that ET claims it to be). And also I think a person of any type could appreciate such a philosophy.

[Ritella]

You apparently don't understand the point of the book at all.


You really don't understand the book, at all.

I read 5 pages. I'm not claiming to understand anything. I was more referring to writing tone and style. And also, I'm just brain farting here.

[JuJu]

could you explain your reasons? or is it just a gut instinct?

Sure... Here's a conversation with E. Tolle and Oprah (ENFj,) which shows how he interacts:



If you want to concentrate on just E. Tolle and not the intertype relation, I'd say the first thing that jumps out at me is his use of Fi... He's a little constrained here because Oprah's giving out a lot of Fe... And they're not connecting on that level. There are a few semi-awkward moments, usually after Oprah attempts to distill something 'deep'--but she's a pro and doesn't let them fester... (On with the show, lol.) Compare Oprah's Fe with Tolle, who lacks it. Fi>Fe, which narrows down the potential types.

That brings us to deciding Delta or Gamma... I'm interested to see what you see here, hellothere... To be honest, ET's German inflected English makes him harder than normal to type. IMO.

[Gilly]

I'd say EII makes sense.

[hellothere]

Sure... Here's a conversation with E. Tolle and Oprah (ENFj,) which shows how he interacts:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eouF-...eature=related

If you want to concentrate on just E. Tolle and not the intertype relation, I'd say the first thing that jumps out at me is his use of Fi... He's a little constrained here because Oprah's giving out a lot of Fe... And they're not connecting on that level. There are a few semi-awkward moments, usually after Oprah attempts to distill something 'deep'--but she's a pro and doesn't let them fester... (On with the show, lol.) Compare Oprah's Fe with Tolle, who lacks it. Fi>Fe, which narrows down the potential types.

thanks for the video. Could you be more explicit about where the Fi jumps out at you? I'm asking not just because I'm interested in his type but also because I want to check my understanding of this element (especially because I think it's my leading function lol). One thing that could be Fi was when he spoke about feeling a "deep inner connection" to certain places, but is there anything else? That almost seems too stereotypically Fi that I fear it might not be. But yeah, I can definitely see the difference between him and Oprah.

That brings us to deciding Delta or Gamma... I'm interested to see what you see here, hellothere... To be honest, ET's German inflected English makes him harder than normal to type. IMO.

I dunno, I'm probably not qualified to speak, but he seems softer than I'd imagine an Se valuing (esp if in ego) to be, and from what I read in his wikipedia article it sounds like he has been very open minded to diverse philosophies and ways of thinking and what he has done so well is to perceive the essence of each and then tie them all together - I'm not sure about this but perhaps this is a manifestation of Ne - though if this is the case, I guess its possible that any type (or any person I guess I should say, considering I warm more to the idea of 'strong' vs. 'weak' being like Ritella said, a within person thing, that is, its possible a sensing type could display good use of Ni/Ne, but they are a sensing type simply because their use of Si/Se is better) with "strong" Ne could do this, regardless of whether Ne is "valued" or not.

[hellothere]

bump. I wanna know where people are seeing the Fi

[Gilly]

I don't so much see Fi specifically in anything he says or does as I do a general congruence with my picture of EIIs. He speaks calmly and formally, rarely gets excited or shows any overt displays of emotion, says exactly what he means without making insinuations or trying to form grandiose, abstract connections, and generally seems more "tolerant" of Oprah's attitude than willing to engage in the atmosphere she is trying to create. It seems like she is setting up this big grand scheme of having people communicate all the world over and it's this big, special event, and he pretty calmly just sits there and says what he has to say without seriously engaging or contributing to the sense of grandiosity that she seems to be trying to create.

[iAnnAu]

I think he's a leprechaun .
I enjoyed Power of Now, but thought A New Earth was more of the same, and got bored with it.
He kinda lost me when he started talking about the Pain Body, but eventually I was able to see it as a metaphor and from there use the metaphor to help explain certain behaviors I see in myself in others ...
As for how living "in the now" can work on a daily basis, he does address this in one part of the book, basically implying that our brains will work on the future without us actively thinking about it - although encased in language that sounds like all we need to do is "align" ourselves with the direction of "good energies" (not his words, just remembering my impression) to have results. That's not entirely likely to get the gas bill paid on time, unfortunately ... don't forget how he described living on a park bench for two years just blissed out - which means he was homeless and jobless. While that took away a lot of shit to worry about, he couldn't have survived without a society around him, so at least in part I agree with BulletsandDoves on that.

[Gilly]

Interesting...I experienced the Pain Body very directly and nearly exactly as he describes it, and I'm entirely convinced that it made my first and only experience with true, full meditation possible.

[Joy]

[Joy]

lol, that was very recent

[JuJu]

Yeah, I agree with Starfall, as usual INFj.

[tereg]

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=19362

[Joy]

To those who have read his books... How could Socionics be anything other than deep identification with your thinking mechanism?

[UDP]

If you use it properly it may be able to help you identify when you are looking at his thinking mechanism.

at people being interested in him/this now. I brought him up over a year ago and nobody cared.

[Joy]

If you use it properly it may be able to help you identify when you are looking at his thinking mechanism.

But then you're not simply observing. You're analyzing, which is a function of your thinking mechanism.

at people being interested in him/this now. I brought him up over a year ago and nobody cared.

[UDP]

But then you're not simply observing. You're analyzing, which is a function of your thinking mechanism.

Yes

[Joy]

So then according to this philosophy, identifying yourself as a Socionics type and analyzing your thoughts/behavior/experiences according to Socionics are only going to take you further away from who you really are. Studying Socionics, especially if you think about it a lot, will only serve to greatly strengthen your identification with your thinking mechanism. The more you try to identify yourself as a particular type/dichotomy/quadra, the more your ego will feel the need to defend this concept of self. Fear, anxiety, worry, other forms of unhappiness, and most likely physical manifestations of such (disease, pain, or unfortunate circumstances in your life) are sure to follow as the strength of your defensiveness grows (which will happen in proportion to your preoccupation with Socionics).

[JuJu]

So then according to this philosophy, identifying yourself as a Socionics type and analyzing your thoughts/behavior/experiences according to Socionics are only going to take you further away from who you really are. Studying Socionics, especially if you think about it a lot, will only serve to greatly strengthen your identification with your thinking mechanism. The more you try to identify yourself as a particular type/dichotomy/quadra, the more your ego will feel the need to defend this concept of self. Fear, anxiety, worry, other forms of unhappiness, and most likely physical manifestations of such (disease, pain, or unfortunate circumstances in your life) are sure to follow as the strength of your defensiveness grows (which will happen in proportion to your preoccupation with Socionics).

Tolle says throughout his books that the wisest ppl are often those who, at one point in time, were overly identified with the mind or pain-body, and then for whatever reason, renounced those allegiances.

Thus if one makes of Socionics a 'pain-body,' or a rigid mental identification, then yes--I imagine that he'd view it as unfortunate... However, I don't believe that he's against the old Greek maxim 'know thyself'--and thus, to the degree that Socionics allows one to 'know thyself' but not become overly identified with/limited by that self-conception, (here's where the other Greek maxim about 'moderation' is applicable,) I imagine that he'd regard Socionics as instructional, (or at least having the potential to be instructional--for various reasons/purposes.)

[Joy]

Tolle says throughout his books that the wisest ppl are often those who, at one point in time, were overly identified with the mind or pain-body, and then for whatever reason, renounced those allegiances.

Thus if one makes of Socionics a 'pain-body,' or a rigid mental identification, then yes--I imagine that he'd view it as unfortunate... However, I don't believe that he's against the old Greek maxim 'know thyself'--and thus, to the degree that Socionics allows one to 'know thyself' but not become overly identified with/limited by that self-conception, (here's where the other Greek maxim about 'moderation' is applicable,) I imagine that he'd regard Socionics as instructional, (or at least having the potential to be instructional--for various reasons/purposes.)

oic

(I'm only on chapter 3 atm. )

[Joy]

Okay, so at this point I'm just about through The Power of Now, and I must say I'm a bit disappointed. It started out really good, but after not too long he stops talking about the basic concept (the one that he describes in the first few chapters) and starts talking about his opinions about the past and future of the human race and the world. (It seems to me that someone's having a bit too much fun with his eighth function. )

I'm not sure what to think about the "pain body" he describes. I understand (and tend to agree with) the underlying concept, but the way he explains it seems a bit contrived to me.

Can someone tell me if A New Earth is about anything more than his ideas about the past and future of the world and humanity?

[crazedrat]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAvfdwypmnw]YouTube - Honoring Others - Eckhart Tolle - www.eckharttolle.com[/ame]
Either INTp-Ni or INFp-Ni, IMO ..

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

No. INFj-Ne.

INFps are just more aggressive and sexual than that.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Love thy neighbor as yourself blah blah treat other people nicely, don't be an asshole. Yadda yadda yadda, stay aware.

How patronizing.

True, you know, but patronizing.

Instead of preaching I kinda prefer "Heh, shit- you fucked up on that too? So did I!"

[07490]

I have never read his book before but if that is how you determine his type based on your explanation of his motive then I must be a Delta.